I'm slightly embarrassed to say it but I don't have a clear understanding of what it means to become an associate. I've never worked for a firm that offers this title.
I'm sure it differs from firm to firm, but I imagine it can be everything from a title only, to having to buy a stake (in cash), to being offered a stake (in lieu of pay), to something else I haven't thought of.
Just a thought as I enter my 5th year at this firm and consider my options. Any experiences you feel like sharing, are appreciated.
bowling_ball
Jan 17, 18 9:21 pm
I meant to also ask - what would one expect the added responsibilities to be?
Thanks
Non Sequitur
Jan 17, 18 10:08 pm
Associate in my office is a merited title that implies client and staff management duties in return for a cut company profits above salary. It’s not an automatic title just because of licensing or signority.
Wilma Buttfit
Jan 17, 18 10:28 pm
It is a title that I think was probably borrowed from law where it is used a lot. It means somewhere between intern and partner. Meaning associates can represent the company and can perform all the tasks required but aren't partners. Company (wo)man. Also a term to describe someone who shouldn't be called intern but isn't an architect so can't use that title either. Looks better in correspondence to have a title of associate than intern and if you have to correspond, you won't get anywhere with the title of intern. I worked in a branch office where you could earn the title of associate after about 5+ years of experience but that wasn't the case in the main, much larger office where you needed probably 12-15 years to get it.
bowling_ball
Jan 18, 18 2:43 pm
Sorry Rick, but based on what? I was under the impression that you've never worked in a firm before.
ArchNyen
Jan 28, 18 12:22 pm
which principle of a firm would want to talk to you? =P
ArchNyen
Jan 28, 18 7:06 pm
are you really that nice in person?
archinine
Jan 17, 18 11:18 pm
Very much depends on the firm. At some places it could be as little as 3-5 years experience others it's 10+. Could be enormous corporate or tiny less than 10 person operation. Corporate arch firms seem to be shifting toward a more banker/lawyer type system of titles, which is where associate comes from. Doesn't seem to be much consistency in what it represents across these architecture firms.
The better question to ask yourself is not what the title is or might mean to outsiders but if this firm/title is offering you growth, opportunity, pay etc on par with what you feel is commesurate for your responsibilities and experience level.
randomised
Jan 18, 18 11:21 am
I associate 'associate' with Godfather/Sopranos type of entrepreneurs who try to pretend they're legit businessmen.
bowling_ball
Jan 18, 18 11:33 am
From where I'm standing, it feels like every day I'm pretending to be a legit businessman.
Bloopox
Jan 18, 18 11:40 am
My experiences:
Firm 1: It meant everybody unlicensed who did not have some other title. In other words the "Specification Specialist" and the "Comptroller" and the "Junior Partners" and the "Project Architects" were not Associates. The college student doing a co-op semester, the IT guy, front desk receptionist/admin person, and all interns, recent grads, and unlicensed middle-manager aspiring-architects were Associates.
Firm 2: It meant professional staff, licensed or not, who had been there at least 3 to 5 years and were considered to be on a partner track. Note that this is a large firm with 50+ Associates and 20+ partners, and that there are several levels of Associates, so being just an Associate could still be decades away from partnership, and many of their Associates never do become partners.
Firm 3: Didn't use the title at all.
Firm 4: was a 7-person firm with "and Associates" in its firm name. All staff except the Owner were titled Associate on their business cards, from entry-level to senior architect sidekick.
Firm 5: Didn't use the title at all.
Firm 6: It was used for senior-level managers who were not licensed. Licensed senior managers were called "Senior Project Manager", but the firm's insurer banned the use of "manager" in the title of anyone without professional a professional license, so the senior staff member who functioned as senior PM of interior design, for example, was "Senior Associate of Interior Design".
Firm 7: Didn't use the title at all.
Firm 8: Used to use the title to refer to senior staff - usually 15+ years of experience - who were not partners. There were both Associates and Senior Associates. More recently this firm has moved away from retaining any staff at that level who are not partners, so nobody is currently titled Associate.
Firm 9: Uses the title for senior-level non-design staff - i.e. most of their marketing staff are titled Associate.
Firm 10 (my own firm): Does not use the title at all.
bowling_ball
Jan 18, 18 2:45 pm
This is about what I'd been imagining. It really means something different to everyone. Thanks for taking the time to write that out, I appreciate it.
Everyday Architect
Jan 18, 18 11:48 am
There is some bogus statement of purpose of what becoming an associate means for my office but it is rarely followed. It is really just a promotion in title with some extra little bonuses and maybe a little higher prestige with people outside the firm. The reality is that if you've been here 3-5 years and you're slightly better than simply competent and don't have any social awkwardness around the office, you're probably going to be made an associate. It amounts to a popularity contest.
bowling_ball, if you're wondering what becoming an associate means in your firm, I wouldn't ask us here ... ask an associate at your firm what it means. Or if you're considering moving to another firm, ask an associate there. With such a wide range of associates in the profession, it all depends on the particular firm's policy or politics.
bowling_ball
Jan 18, 18 2:49 pm
Here's the thing - my current firm doesn't the title at all, but they've been throwing around the idea as some sort of carrot for those of us near the top, but not practice managers. I know that if I bring up the question, they're not going to have an answer because they don't know themselves just yet (we have been a stable group of about 20 for the past 5 or 6 years and the owners are relatively young).
spiketwig
Jan 18, 18 2:01 pm
Global firm: for us it's just one of the title steps. It means essentially a competent professional (either licensed or not, and I think we have a minimum of 5 years experience) but who is not a manager. An associate might direct the work of design staff, and in fact be a very experienced project architect (we have people with 20+ years as senior associates) but they would probably not be responsible for staffing, performance reviews, contracts, invoicing, and the like. They likely would provide input into all those things, but they wouldn't have primary responsibility. Basically a middle of the road title. Competent and good for day to day and some planning, but not running the show.
bowling_ball
Jan 25, 18 11:48 pm
Follow-up
Spoke to one of the principals, discussed this topic. Two of my managers have decided to buy in as junior partners within the year. I have a lot on my plate and they'd like me turn join at some point, but as I'm going through a messy breakup at home, I don't have the energy, will, or financial stability to make that leap right away. However I'd like to be in that position by the time I'm 40, in less than 2 years.
I did, however, negotiate a 10% raise, which was sealed with a 'fuck you' and a handshake from the boss.
I'm slightly embarrassed to say it but I don't have a clear understanding of what it means to become an associate. I've never worked for a firm that offers this title.
I'm sure it differs from firm to firm, but I imagine it can be everything from a title only, to having to buy a stake (in cash), to being offered a stake (in lieu of pay), to something else I haven't thought of.
Just a thought as I enter my 5th year at this firm and consider my options. Any experiences you feel like sharing, are appreciated.
I meant to also ask - what would one expect the added responsibilities to be?
Thanks
Associate in my office is a merited title that implies client and staff management duties in return for a cut company profits above salary. It’s not an automatic title just because of licensing or signority.
It is a title that I think was probably borrowed from law where it is used a lot. It means somewhere between intern and partner. Meaning associates can represent the company and can perform all the tasks required but aren't partners. Company (wo)man. Also a term to describe someone who shouldn't be called intern but isn't an architect so can't use that title either. Looks better in correspondence to have a title of associate than intern and if you have to correspond, you won't get anywhere with the title of intern. I worked in a branch office where you could earn the title of associate after about 5+ years of experience but that wasn't the case in the main, much larger office where you needed probably 12-15 years to get it.
Sorry Rick, but based on what? I was under the impression that you've never worked in a firm before.
which principle of a firm would want to talk to you? =P
are you really that nice in person?
Very much depends on the firm. At some places it could be as little as 3-5 years experience others it's 10+. Could be enormous corporate or tiny less than 10 person operation. Corporate arch firms seem to be shifting toward a more banker/lawyer type system of titles, which is where associate comes from. Doesn't seem to be much consistency in what it represents across these architecture firms.
The better question to ask yourself is not what the title is or might mean to outsiders but if this firm/title is offering you growth, opportunity, pay etc on par with what you feel is commesurate for your responsibilities and experience level.
I associate 'associate' with Godfather/Sopranos type of entrepreneurs who try to pretend they're legit businessmen.
From where I'm standing, it feels like every day I'm pretending to be a legit businessman.
My experiences:
Firm 1: It meant everybody unlicensed who did not have some other title. In other words the "Specification Specialist" and the "Comptroller" and the "Junior Partners" and the "Project Architects" were not Associates. The college student doing a co-op semester, the IT guy, front desk receptionist/admin person, and all interns, recent grads, and unlicensed middle-manager aspiring-architects were Associates.
Firm 2: It meant professional staff, licensed or not, who had been there at least 3 to 5 years and were considered to be on a partner track. Note that this is a large firm with 50+ Associates and 20+ partners, and that there are several levels of Associates, so being just an Associate could still be decades away from partnership, and many of their Associates never do become partners.
Firm 3: Didn't use the title at all.
Firm 4: was a 7-person firm with "and Associates" in its firm name. All staff except the Owner were titled Associate on their business cards, from entry-level to senior architect sidekick.
Firm 5: Didn't use the title at all.
Firm 6: It was used for senior-level managers who were not licensed. Licensed senior managers were called "Senior Project Manager", but the firm's insurer banned the use of "manager" in the title of anyone without professional a professional license, so the senior staff member who functioned as senior PM of interior design, for example, was "Senior Associate of Interior Design".
Firm 7: Didn't use the title at all.
Firm 8: Used to use the title to refer to senior staff - usually 15+ years of experience - who were not partners. There were both Associates and Senior Associates. More recently this firm has moved away from retaining any staff at that level who are not partners, so nobody is currently titled Associate.
Firm 9: Uses the title for senior-level non-design staff - i.e. most of their marketing staff are titled Associate.
Firm 10 (my own firm): Does not use the title at all.
This is about what I'd been imagining. It really means something different to everyone. Thanks for taking the time to write that out, I appreciate it.
There is some bogus statement of purpose of what becoming an associate means for my office but it is rarely followed. It is really just a promotion in title with some extra little bonuses and maybe a little higher prestige with people outside the firm. The reality is that if you've been here 3-5 years and you're slightly better than simply competent and don't have any social awkwardness around the office, you're probably going to be made an associate. It amounts to a popularity contest.
bowling_ball, if you're wondering what becoming an associate means in your firm, I wouldn't ask us here ... ask an associate at your firm what it means. Or if you're considering moving to another firm, ask an associate there. With such a wide range of associates in the profession, it all depends on the particular firm's policy or politics.
Here's the thing - my current firm doesn't the title at all, but they've been throwing around the idea as some sort of carrot for those of us near the top, but not practice managers. I know that if I bring up the question, they're not going to have an answer because they don't know themselves just yet (we have been a stable group of about 20 for the past 5 or 6 years and the owners are relatively young).
Global firm: for us it's just one of the title steps. It means essentially a competent professional (either licensed or not, and I think we have a minimum of 5 years experience) but who is not a manager. An associate might direct the work of design staff, and in fact be a very experienced project architect (we have people with 20+ years as senior associates) but they would probably not be responsible for staffing, performance reviews, contracts, invoicing, and the like. They likely would provide input into all those things, but they wouldn't have primary responsibility. Basically a middle of the road title. Competent and good for day to day and some planning, but not running the show.
Follow-up
Spoke to one of the principals, discussed this topic. Two of my managers have decided to buy in as junior partners within the year. I have a lot on my plate and they'd like me turn join at some point, but as I'm going through a messy breakup at home, I don't have the energy, will, or financial stability to make that leap right away. However I'd like to be in that position by the time I'm 40, in less than 2 years.
I did, however, negotiate a 10% raise, which was sealed with a 'fuck you' and a handshake from the boss.
To be continued...