This is far from my area of expertise, but shouldn't/isn't there a code mandating self closing fire doors in apartments to avoid this kind of tragedy? Single family Residential code mandates a self closing fire rated door between the garage and the interior of the residence...seems like it would make sense?
randomised
Dec 29, 17 1:33 pm
Can't expect people to neatly close the door behind them when they escape from their burning apartment.
x-jla
Dec 29, 17 1:47 pm
Most people wouldn't even realize that one should do so under normal circumstances let alone in the midst of an emergency.
Everyday Architect
Dec 29, 17 1:48 pm
Yes, see Chapter 7 of current NYC Building Code requiring corridor walls to be fire partitions and opening protectives in those partitions to be self- or automatic-closing and latching. I didn't do an in-depth search, but it also appears to be in the 1968 NYC Building Code too.
As an aside, I have seen recently that some jurisdictions (not NYC to my knowledge) have been granting variances allowing alternative strategies for dorms that don't require entrance doors to the dorms be rated and self-closing.
x-jla
Dec 29, 17 1:50 pm
But wouldn't the actual apt door be the easiest way to contain the fire and buy some time?
x-jla
Dec 29, 17 1:57 pm
Ok...gotcha. Read that wrong
poop876
Dec 29, 17 1:54 pm
IBC Chapter 715.4.8
x-jla
Dec 29, 17 2:00 pm
I've also thought many times about stove knobs. My kids used to mess with the stove knobs all the time and press the oven light buttons. Especially on the newer ones with digital controls. There should be some safety mechanisms involved. Maybe a passcode lock or something. If iPhones have one that we use a hundred times a day ovens should as well.
Everyday Architect
Dec 29, 17 2:44 pm
I have a newer stove/oven, and while the oven is digitally controlled and the controls can be locked for safety, the stove knobs cannot. The knobs are right next to the oven controls, and any kid could access both just as easily. This of course didn't even cross my mind when I purchased it before my daughter was born. Now that my daughter is just about ready to start walking and will soon be tall enough to reach the controls ... we've started taking the knobs off when not in use. Also for our own safety as we've bumped the control knobs and accidentally turned on a burner without realizing it before.
Peter Normand
Dec 29, 17 2:05 pm
The buildings that predate the code are not always required to be retrofitted. Illinois had a huge kerfuffle when the state fire marshal suggested that high rise residential buildings be required to install sprinklers a few years ago. This building appears to be 1890s vintage and would probably have minimal fire safety systems compared to modern buildings. Also a door closer is easy to disable and or break and I could imagine a tenant not wanting their door to close automatically for convenience. The 1911 vintage building I live in has no closer on the door to the stairs but in Chicago we have two exits out of every residential unit or other measures such as a non combustible construction, fire doors to compartmentalize the corridor and stairs or sprinklers.
Everyday Architect
Dec 29, 17 2:32 pm
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Everyday Architect
Dec 29, 17 2:34 pm
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( o Y o )
Dec 29, 17 6:20 pm
"The fire commissioner said he's unsure whether all the smoke detectors were working in the building.
Records from a city housing agency show one of the apartments on the building's first floor reported defective carbon monoxide and smoke detectors months ago. It's unclear whether those issues were resolved."
A safer option is simply to outlaw buildings altogether, or maybe just children.
dominiond
Dec 29, 17 9:10 pm
Jurisdictions should require that owners of older buildings retrofit with buildings sprinklers and provide every unit with a fire extinguisher. As a parent, I completely understand that mother's instinct to grab her children and take them to safety. Closing the door would not be on your mind in that situation.
Apartment fires are horrible. I once lived in a 1930s era building where a neighbor on our floor (the 6th) got drunk and fell asleep in his bed with a lit cigarette. I remember being woken up by banging on my door and hearing a man yelling "Fuego! Fuego!" I had a metal unit door and all of that elementary school training kicked in where I felt the door for heat, got a wet towel, put it over my mouth (I could not see anything) and crawled on the corridor floor to the fire stair. I was lucky because I was actually going toward the fire, but didn't realize it because his unit door was still closed. (The guy actually lived, miraculously and only his unit was damaged although all of his windows were blown out. It was terrifying and incredible to watch the firemen bolt up the fire stairs as we heard the windows explode.)
Maybe we can get one of the "Creatives who hate working in large firms" to figure out a clever way to incentivize building owners to make their buildings safer for everyone.
x-jla
Dec 29, 17 10:03 pm
Wonder if there are insurance incentives. If not, should be.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/a...
This is far from my area of expertise, but shouldn't/isn't there a code mandating self closing fire doors in apartments to avoid this kind of tragedy? Single family Residential code mandates a self closing fire rated door between the garage and the interior of the residence...seems like it would make sense?
Can't expect people to neatly close the door behind them when they escape from their burning apartment.
Most people wouldn't even realize that one should do so under normal circumstances let alone in the midst of an emergency.
Yes, see Chapter 7 of current NYC Building Code requiring corridor walls to be fire partitions and opening protectives in those partitions to be self- or automatic-closing and latching. I didn't do an in-depth search, but it also appears to be in the 1968 NYC Building Code too.
As an aside, I have seen recently that some jurisdictions (not NYC to my knowledge) have been granting variances allowing alternative strategies for dorms that don't require entrance doors to the dorms be rated and self-closing.
But wouldn't the actual apt door be the easiest way to contain the fire and buy some time?
Ok...gotcha. Read that wrong
IBC Chapter 715.4.8
I've also thought many times about stove knobs. My kids used to mess with the stove knobs all the time and press the oven light buttons. Especially on the newer ones with digital controls. There should be some safety mechanisms involved. Maybe a passcode lock or something. If iPhones have one that we use a hundred times a day ovens should as well.
I have a newer stove/oven, and while the oven is digitally controlled and the controls can be locked for safety, the stove knobs cannot. The knobs are right next to the oven controls, and any kid could access both just as easily. This of course didn't even cross my mind when I purchased it before my daughter was born. Now that my daughter is just about ready to start walking and will soon be tall enough to reach the controls ... we've started taking the knobs off when not in use. Also for our own safety as we've bumped the control knobs and accidentally turned on a burner without realizing it before.
The buildings that predate the code are not always required to be retrofitted. Illinois had a huge kerfuffle when the state fire marshal suggested that high rise residential buildings be required to install sprinklers a few years ago. This building appears to be 1890s vintage and would probably have minimal fire safety systems compared to modern buildings. Also a door closer is easy to disable and or break and I could imagine a tenant not wanting their door to close automatically for convenience. The 1911 vintage building I live in has no closer on the door to the stairs but in Chicago we have two exits out of every residential unit or other measures such as a non combustible construction, fire doors to compartmentalize the corridor and stairs or sprinklers.
.
.
"The fire commissioner said he's unsure whether all the smoke detectors were working in the building.
Records from a city housing agency show one of the apartments on the building's first floor reported defective carbon monoxide and smoke detectors months ago. It's unclear whether those issues were resolved."
A safer option is simply to outlaw buildings altogether, or maybe just children.
Jurisdictions should require that owners of older buildings retrofit with buildings sprinklers and provide every unit with a fire extinguisher. As a parent, I completely understand that mother's instinct to grab her children and take them to safety. Closing the door would not be on your mind in that situation.
Apartment fires are horrible. I once lived in a 1930s era building where a neighbor on our floor (the 6th) got drunk and fell asleep in his bed with a lit cigarette. I remember being woken up by banging on my door and hearing a man yelling "Fuego! Fuego!" I had a metal unit door and all of that elementary school training kicked in where I felt the door for heat, got a wet towel, put it over my mouth (I could not see anything) and crawled on the corridor floor to the fire stair. I was lucky because I was actually going toward the fire, but didn't realize it because his unit door was still closed. (The guy actually lived, miraculously and only his unit was damaged although all of his windows were blown out. It was terrifying and incredible to watch the firemen bolt up the fire stairs as we heard the windows explode.)
Maybe we can get one of the "Creatives who hate working in large firms" to figure out a clever way to incentivize building owners to make their buildings safer for everyone.
Wonder if there are insurance incentives. If not, should be.
What ever happened to fire drills?