More than half of our staff is from other european countries and I wonder if that's due to the nature of the environment (big, multicultural european city) or could be a potential red flag, as in that local architects do not wish to work for the firm in question and therefore only desperate immigrant architects apply or take the jobs. On the other hand, I wonder if the firm just tries to source the best talent and hence the international representation. We are a medium sized practice of a famous local architect with projects of up to 300 million budget. What do you think?
bowling_ball
Dec 27, 17 10:46 pm
I'm thinking that you have a job, and besides maybe being a bit xenophobic for asking such a question in the first place, I'd say you're worrying about nothing.
It's almost 2018 and you live in a big city. Figure it out.
AlinaF
Dec 28, 17 11:33 am
How is my question xenophobic? It's just curiosity.
Peter Normand
Dec 28, 17 12:39 pm
Are you in the US or the UK?
Non Sequitur
Dec 28, 17 12:02 am
I think you're a fool and count yourself lucky to be employed. It's unlikely you'll make it far with such attitude.
AlinaF
Dec 28, 17 11:25 am
I am a fool, that's why I am an architect.
randomised
Dec 28, 17 1:04 am
Why? Because they got hired after applying for a job.
randomised
Dec 28, 17 1:31 am
Or because it's a conspiracy to create one single Europe. They heavily subsidise ( Erasmus programme) European students and graduates to go and work in other European countries to create this one big happy meltingpot of a United States of Europe that works so well in the U.S.A.. The Erasmus Jugend can work for less (because of their subsidies) compared to the locals so they are cheaper to employ and force the locals out.
randomised
Dec 28, 17 1:34 am
Or because of the crisis there were lots of unemployed architects that started to look for work outside their own countries, whose economies were likely in shambles.
archietechie
Dec 28, 17 3:05 am
Alot of good points here about the EU. Wish more were aware.
sameolddoctor
Dec 28, 17 1:07 am
"only desperate immigrant architects apply or take the jobs"
You must have surely voted for trump, if you were in this country.
geezertect
Dec 28, 17 7:29 am
Isn't that what immigration advocates are saying in the US? "Americans won't do these jobs"? Maybe working for this guy is the functional professional equivalent of picking oranges in Texas.
AlinaF
Dec 28, 17 11:31 am
I am not sure what is like in the US but in Europe southern and eastern european countries have high unemployment and a lot of graduates move abroad as soon as they finish school.
archietechie
Dec 28, 17 1:20 am
Are they good? If they arent, the firm's only hiring due to cheap foreign labour and that's a policy problrm of the country, not the firm.
AlinaF
Dec 28, 17 11:26 am
They are all production staff.
AlinaF
Dec 28, 17 11:36 am
I don't know if I am good either, I just only started working.
randomised
Dec 28, 17 1:44 am
Question: Are you a local or so-called foreign architect?
AlinaF
Dec 28, 17 11:27 am
I am a foreign architect too. I was surprised they hired me in the first place and I am just trying to figure out whether the firm is a good or a bad one.
geezertect
Dec 28, 17 7:18 am
Most things can be explained by money or sex.
Seriously, you are in the best position to know why most of your co-workers are foreign. Are they simply better, are they being subsidized, is your local market having a labor shortage, is your employer lazy and hires the first body through the door?
randomised
Dec 29, 17 8:18 am
Truly don't think this office is multicultural to best serve a multicultural market place, whatever that may be. Most businesses are multicultural because they can't afford to or refuse to pay to hire the more expensive indigenous population who are aware of their rights etc.
randomised
Dec 29, 17 2:30 pm
"I'm sure like any business, there is usually some factor where cost saving matters."
It's been a deciding factor for basically any office I worked at. Recently graduated or even experienced foreign architects working under their normal level, as glorified interns or juniors, for intern pay, just because they could afford to thanks to the Erasmus subsidies. No local can compete with that.
randomised
Dec 30, 17 4:51 am
I am Dutch.
Volunteer
Dec 28, 17 8:27 am
Does your firm pay the median/mean/average salaries to these architects at the same stage of their career as they do the native-born architects of your country? If not you have your answer.
AlinaF
Dec 28, 17 11:29 am
I don't know what they are paid. The foreign architects are all production/technical staff and the designers are local.
LITS4FormZ
Dec 28, 17 9:39 am
I don't think she/he is coming back. Way to go Archinect!
AlinaF
Dec 28, 17 11:29 am
Hey I am back!
randomised
Dec 28, 17 11:53 am
;-)
LITS4FormZ
Dec 28, 17 12:09 pm
Welcome back! Glad you weren't scared off by the "tolerant" folks who wanted to automatically label you a racist, xenophobic, trump supporter because you asked an innocent question. Ignore the BS.
You'll likely find out the answer to your question in the first couple of weeks.
On the fence
Dec 28, 17 9:49 am
There is this same issue here in America where a lot of the employees are from other countries. I think it is called immigration.
AlinaF
Dec 28, 17 11:41 am
I don't have an issue with immigration. I am just curious as why more than 50% of our staff is foreign where the normal percentage in other firms is 10-20%. The firm also does not retain its staff but people come and leave all the time. I am worried I got hired at a bad firm.
randomised
Dec 28, 17 11:58 am
The high turnover is much more worrisome than where people come from to know if you're dealing with a decent firm or not.
I worked at a firm where all the locals had permanent contracts and would stick around but all the foreigners came in as interns and had to work their way up from one temp contract to the next, so they came and went all the time.
AlinaF
Dec 28, 17 12:00 pm
The high turnover of the firm is just due to the director's connections with developers. As a firm we don't produce architecture, but just boxes. All our buildings look the same.
randomised
Dec 28, 17 12:05 pm
I think you're at a bad firm, don't be caught off guard and have things set up around the time your contract is up. Especially as a foreigner on a temporary contract it is more difficult, if not impossible, to claim decent unemployment benefits. There are decent firms out there that don't treat foreigners or anyone for that matter as throwaway employees. Ask around your friends, check Linkedin to see how long people work somewhere etc. and bring up the staff rotation during interview, although everybody lies. Good luck!
randomised
Dec 28, 17 1:37 pm
Sorry I didn't mean high turnover (financially) but high rotation of people.
randomised
Dec 29, 17 2:20 pm
"As a firm we don't produce architecture, but just boxes. All our buildings look the same." And yet you applied there, why?
shellarchitect
Dec 28, 17 10:27 am
I have had this issue with my leaf removal staff, can anyone expand on why this might be the case
archietechie
Dec 28, 17 2:19 pm
Alina -
I think it's because none of the locals are looking to take up a position at a firm that only produces boxes. It might be an AE firm, not that it makes any much of a difference. The economy in recent years has been kind to many and as such, I suspect it has bred a little culture of pickiness over one's job placement.
The high turnover rate is also a red flag to look out for. If you're desperate for a job though, that shouldn't matter.
This is me trying my best to read in between the lines within the scope of a limited context provided.
geezertect
Dec 28, 17 7:50 pm
I agree with randomised. Sounds like a typical high turnover exploitative sweat shop office. Not a place to stay with long term unless the compensation is way above the market, which sounds unlikely.
nickmarsala
Dec 30, 17 12:24 am
Those should be American citizens working in those jobs not foreigners!
randomised
Dec 30, 17 4:52 am
Why should American citizens take our European jobs?
randomised
Dec 30, 17 1:25 pm
Well, the topic is about someone working in a European city, if Nick even bothered to read what he's replying too. To bring up Americans and their jobs in this thread out of the blue is just, well, weird to say the least.
More than half of our staff is from other european countries and I wonder if that's due to the nature of the environment (big, multicultural european city) or could be a potential red flag, as in that local architects do not wish to work for the firm in question and therefore only desperate immigrant architects apply or take the jobs. On the other hand, I wonder if the firm just tries to source the best talent and hence the international representation. We are a medium sized practice of a famous local architect with projects of up to 300 million budget. What do you think?
I'm thinking that you have a job, and besides maybe being a bit xenophobic for asking such a question in the first place, I'd say you're worrying about nothing.
It's almost 2018 and you live in a big city. Figure it out.
How is my question xenophobic? It's just curiosity.
Are you in the US or the UK?
I think you're a fool and count yourself lucky to be employed. It's unlikely you'll make it far with such attitude.
I am a fool, that's why I am an architect.
Why? Because they got hired after applying for a job.
Or because it's a conspiracy to create one single Europe. They heavily subsidise ( Erasmus programme) European students and graduates to go and work in other European countries to create this one big happy meltingpot of a United States of Europe that works so well in the U.S.A.. The Erasmus Jugend can work for less (because of their subsidies) compared to the locals so they are cheaper to employ and force the locals out.
Or because of the crisis there were lots of unemployed architects that started to look for work outside their own countries, whose economies were likely in shambles.
Alot of good points here about the EU. Wish more were aware.
"only desperate immigrant architects apply or take the jobs"
You must have surely voted for trump, if you were in this country.
Isn't that what immigration advocates are saying in the US? "Americans won't do these jobs"? Maybe working for this guy is the functional professional equivalent of picking oranges in Texas.
I am not sure what is like in the US but in Europe southern and eastern european countries have high unemployment and a lot of graduates move abroad as soon as they finish school.
Are they good? If they arent, the firm's only hiring due to cheap foreign labour and that's a policy problrm of the country, not the firm.
They are all production staff.
I don't know if I am good either, I just only started working.
Question: Are you a local or so-called foreign architect?
I am a foreign architect too. I was surprised they hired me in the first place and I am just trying to figure out whether the firm is a good or a bad one.
Most things can be explained by money or sex.
Seriously, you are in the best position to know why most of your co-workers are foreign. Are they simply better, are they being subsidized, is your local market having a labor shortage, is your employer lazy and hires the first body through the door?
Truly don't think this office is multicultural to best serve a multicultural market place, whatever that may be. Most businesses are multicultural because they can't afford to or refuse to pay to hire the more expensive indigenous population who are aware of their rights etc.
"I'm sure like any business, there is usually some factor where cost saving matters."
It's been a deciding factor for basically any office I worked at. Recently graduated or even experienced foreign architects working under their normal level, as glorified interns or juniors, for intern pay, just because they could afford to thanks to the Erasmus subsidies. No local can compete with that.
I am Dutch.
Does your firm pay the median/mean/average salaries to these architects at the same stage of their career as they do the native-born architects of your country? If not you have your answer.
I don't know what they are paid. The foreign architects are all production/technical staff and the designers are local.
I don't think she/he is coming back. Way to go Archinect!
Hey I am back!
;-)
Welcome back! Glad you weren't scared off by the "tolerant" folks who wanted to automatically label you a racist, xenophobic, trump supporter because you asked an innocent question. Ignore the BS. You'll likely find out the answer to your question in the first couple of weeks.
There is this same issue here in America where a lot of the employees are from other countries. I think it is called immigration.
I don't have an issue with immigration. I am just curious as why more than 50% of our staff is foreign where the normal percentage in other firms is 10-20%. The firm also does not retain its staff but people come and leave all the time. I am worried I got hired at a bad firm.
The high turnover is much more worrisome than where people come from to know if you're dealing with a decent firm or not.
I worked at a firm where all the locals had permanent contracts and would stick around but all the foreigners came in as interns and had to work their way up from one temp contract to the next, so they came and went all the time.
The high turnover of the firm is just due to the director's connections with developers. As a firm we don't produce architecture, but just boxes. All our buildings look the same.
I think you're at a bad firm, don't be caught off guard and have things set up around the time your contract is up. Especially as a foreigner on a temporary contract it is more difficult, if not impossible, to claim decent unemployment benefits. There are decent firms out there that don't treat foreigners or anyone for that matter as throwaway employees. Ask around your friends, check Linkedin to see how long people work somewhere etc. and bring up the staff rotation during interview, although everybody lies. Good luck!
Sorry I didn't mean high turnover (financially) but high rotation of people.
"As a firm we don't produce architecture, but just boxes. All our buildings look the same."
And yet you applied there, why?
I have had this issue with my leaf removal staff, can anyone expand on why this might be the case
Alina -
I think it's because none of the locals are looking to take up a position at a firm that only produces boxes. It might be an AE firm, not that it makes any much of a difference. The economy in recent years has been kind to many and as such, I suspect it has bred a little culture of pickiness over one's job placement.
The high turnover rate is also a red flag to look out for. If you're desperate for a job though, that shouldn't matter.
This is me trying my best to read in between the lines within the scope of a limited context provided.
I agree with randomised. Sounds like a typical high turnover exploitative sweat shop office. Not a place to stay with long term unless the compensation is way above the market, which sounds unlikely.
Those should be American citizens working in those jobs not foreigners!
Why should American citizens take our European jobs?
Well, the topic is about someone working in a European city, if Nick even bothered to read what he's replying too. To bring up Americans and their jobs in this thread out of the blue is just, well, weird to say the least.