I'm doing research on an old chateau that was demolished in the late 19th century. Unfortunately, there are no photos of it, but I've found an old text in German which describes it's exterior. However, I need your help since it says something a bit confusing:
"On this side is a porch; brick pillars carry a wooden roof and continue beyond the latter."
What could "continue beyond the latter" mean? My guess is that it's a two-story porch - the pillars carry the roof of the first floor and then continue to the 2nd floor where they carry another roof.
Any guesses?
Non Sequitur
Dec 11, 17 2:59 pm
or it's a decorative colonnade extending beyond the roof's footprint.
AdrianFGA
Dec 12, 17 12:14 pm
@Panzerfaust:
From the posted text I assume this was a porch with a wooden roof supported by brick pillars which were freestanding above roof level. The description of the broken pillar might suggest that ("soweit er oben frei war") probably it broke above the roof level, otherwise there would have been a mention about more structural damage than the broken pillar itself.
Curious, which book is that text from?
Panzerfaust
Dec 12, 17 2:16 pm
Having the columns stand higher than the roof doesn't make much sense unless they're carrying something, I think. It would be a weird decorative element to have them just "float" like that. Or perhaps I'm visualizing it wrong.
Maybe it's a flat roof, a balcony of some sort, and the pillars at the top act as some sort of fence posts for the balcony fence. I don't know.
But the way I understood the text is that the pillar broke just below the roof, so the upper part that goes beyond it was "left free" and the rest of the column collapsed.
I can't remember the exact title of the book, but it describes the damage done to the building by an earthquake.
Donna Sink
Dec 12, 17 3:23 pm
Have you looked at still extant buildings in the neighborhood/region from the same time period that might help you visualize it? Carpenters frequently all built similarly, using the same techniques regionally.
If so could you post some pictures here? I'm curious!
AdrianFGA
Dec 12, 17 3:37 pm
It would be a weird decorative element to have them just "float" like that
Pinnacles were similar looking features e.g.look at the top of the York Minster. Pending on how old the castle was, maybe it had eclectic or gothic revival features.
the pillar broke just below the roof - It's possible but that would have likely caused a (partial) collapse of the porch itself.
What I understand from the last sentence is that one of those pillars, "insofar as it was free above" (top was not anchored or embedded in anything, thus the possibility of breaking) broke off and fell down; no further damage is mentioned.
Can you publish more text from that book, is there more information?
Peter Normand
Dec 12, 17 3:44 pm
Sometimes the columns extend up past/ through the roof and support a decorative balustrade just above the eave.
"Pending on how old the castle was, maybe it had eclectic or gothic revival features."
The castle was from the late 18th or early 19th century, so the columns might be reminiscent of ancient Greek or Roman ones, since neoclassicism was the dominant style at the time.
"Can you publish more text from that book, is there more information?"
There was more information, but nothing regarding the porch. It just describes the damage done to the other parts of the building (parts of the roof collapsed, some windows and furniture got shattered, etc.)
"If so could you post some pictures here? I'm curious!"
The only image of the castle I found was on an old map:
The dimensions of the porch (marked red) were roughly 50 x 20 feet.
What's really weird to me are the fuzzy circles in the park surrounding the castle. Some kind of huge ornamental vegetation I guess?
Panzerfaust
Dec 21, 17 7:27 am
Could be. Or, areas enclosed by tall bushes where you could "hide" and contemplate, or whatever
AdrianFGA
Dec 12, 17 8:35 pm
the columns might be reminiscent of ancient Greek or Roman ones
It's possible, however brick classic style columns are not very common.
Volunteer
Dec 13, 17 6:49 am
There was a style called 'North German Brick Gothic' in areas of Germany where stone was not readily available.
Here is an example (from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, no less) Although these columns are not brick they do extend above the roofline of the porch entryway.
Panzerfaust
Dec 13, 17 11:05 am
"Here is an example (from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, no less) Although these columns are not brick they do extend above the roofline of the porch entryway."
That does make sense, although I didn't know that was considered as a part of the column. That's why the "column continuing above the roof" part confused me.
AdrianFGA
Dec 13, 17 1:20 pm
@Panzerfaust
Do you have access to some of the older "Blauen Bücher" books? They might have something about your castle.
Panzerfaust
Dec 20, 17 12:11 pm
@AndrianFGA
Unfortunately, the castle isn't in Germany.
AdrianFGA
Dec 20, 17 1:41 pm
Where was it then? Curious.
Panzerfaust
Dec 21, 17 5:48 am
Croatia, but at the time it was a part of Austria - Hungary.
AdrianFGA
Dec 21, 17 2:01 pm
Was it by any chance, affected by the 1880 Zagreb earthquake? I assume you went to the ONB in Vienna, they would likely have some books about this topic?
Panzerfaust
Dec 21, 17 2:08 pm
Yup. The book I quoted
deals with the damage done by that exact earthquake.
Hi!
I'm doing research on an old chateau that was demolished in the late 19th century. Unfortunately, there are no photos of it, but I've found an old text in German which describes it's exterior. However, I need your help since it says something a bit confusing:
"On this side is a porch; brick pillars carry a wooden roof and continue beyond the latter."
What could "continue beyond the latter" mean? My guess is that it's a two-story porch - the pillars carry the roof of the first floor and then continue to the 2nd floor where they carry another roof.
Any guesses?
or it's a decorative colonnade extending beyond the roof's footprint.
@Panzerfaust:
From the posted text I assume this was a porch with a wooden roof supported by brick pillars which were freestanding above roof level. The description of the broken pillar might suggest that ("soweit er oben frei war") probably it broke above the roof level, otherwise there would have been a mention about more structural damage than the broken pillar itself.
Curious, which book is that text from?
Having the columns stand higher than the roof doesn't make much sense unless they're carrying something, I think. It would be a weird decorative element to have them just "float" like that. Or perhaps I'm visualizing it wrong.
Maybe it's a flat roof, a balcony of some sort, and the pillars at the top act as some sort of fence posts for the balcony fence. I don't know.
But the way I understood the text is that the pillar broke just below the roof, so the upper part that goes beyond it was "left free" and the rest of the column collapsed.
I can't remember the exact title of the book, but it describes the damage done to the building by an earthquake.
Have you looked at still extant buildings in the neighborhood/region from the same time period that might help you visualize it? Carpenters frequently all built similarly, using the same techniques regionally.
If so could you post some pictures here? I'm curious!
It would be a weird decorative element to have them just "float" like that
Pinnacles were similar looking features e.g.look at the top of the York Minster. Pending on how old the castle was, maybe it had eclectic or gothic revival features.
the pillar broke just below the roof - It's possible but that would have likely caused a (partial) collapse of the porch itself.
What I understand from the last sentence is that one of those pillars, "insofar as it was free above" (top was not anchored or embedded in anything, thus the possibility of breaking) broke off and fell down; no further damage is mentioned.
Can you publish more text from that book, is there more information?
Sometimes the columns extend up past/ through the roof and support a decorative balustrade just above the eave.
An example from Paris:
https://www.google.com/maps/@4...
"Pending on how old the castle was, maybe it had eclectic or gothic revival features."
The castle was from the late 18th or early 19th century, so the columns might be reminiscent of ancient Greek or Roman ones, since neoclassicism was the dominant style at the time.
"Can you publish more text from that book, is there more information?"
There was more information, but nothing regarding the porch. It just describes the damage done to the other parts of the building (parts of the roof collapsed, some windows and furniture got shattered, etc.)
"If so could you post some pictures here? I'm curious!"
The only image of the castle I found was on an old map:
The dimensions of the porch (marked red) were roughly 50 x 20 feet.
What's really weird to me are the fuzzy circles in the park surrounding the castle. Some kind of huge ornamental vegetation I guess?
Could be. Or, areas enclosed by tall bushes where you could "hide" and contemplate, or whatever
the columns might be reminiscent of ancient Greek or Roman ones
It's possible, however brick classic style columns are not very common.
There was a style called 'North German Brick Gothic' in areas of Germany where stone was not readily available.
Here is an example (from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, no less) Although these columns are not brick they do extend above the roofline of the porch entryway.
"Here is an example (from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, no less) Although these columns are not brick they do extend above the roofline of the porch entryway."
That does make sense, although I didn't know that was considered as a part of the column. That's why the "column continuing above the roof" part confused me.
@Panzerfaust
Do you have access to some of the older "Blauen Bücher" books? They might have something about your castle.
@AndrianFGA
Unfortunately, the castle isn't in Germany.
Where was it then? Curious.
Croatia, but at the time it was a part of Austria - Hungary.
Was it by any chance, affected by the 1880 Zagreb earthquake? I assume you went to the ONB in Vienna, they would likely have some books about this topic?
Yup. The book I quoted deals with the damage done by that exact earthquake.