What are the intentions behind the kind of popular contextualism we see so often in American cities? Is it supposed to be beautiful? Psychologically comforting? Educational? Reverential? Or is it just politically safe?
JLC-1
Nov 15, 17 3:58 pm
none of the above, is mandated by new urbanism guidelines, drafted by lawyers and enforced by "volunteers" in HOA meetings. Oh, and it's cheap, so it can be fixed within annual budget.
davvid
Nov 15, 17 4:07 pm
But what are the intentions behind the mandates and guidelines?
JLC-1
Nov 15, 17 4:13 pm
ah, to make it look "timeless" - as if that comes from ornate and fake bricks. I see it as a transvestism, where developers sell an image of something the buyers can never be. It's not only the architects and developers fault anyway.
JLC-1
Nov 15, 17 4:16 pm
there was a trend a while back about new campus buildings somewhere in california that were made to look like princeton, why do you think that is? beyond the architectural "contextualism" as you call it, I believe it's psychological marketing, appealing to your most basic social-climbing instincts.
davvid
Nov 15, 17 4:19 pm
I think you're right. The concept of "timelessness"; the hope of being able to transcend time is major factor.
Volunteer
Nov 15, 17 5:12 pm
Princeton's collegiate gothic buildings were made to resemble the buildings of Oxford and Cambridge, so the Cali buildings were copies of a copy.
JLC-1
Nov 15, 17 5:23 pm
exactly, and that's how everything degenerates
Volunteer
Nov 15, 17 5:48 pm
Or, improves, as new elements of the order, in this case collegiate gothic, are developed
.
JLC-1
Nov 15, 17 5:50 pm
never said degenerate was bad.
tduds
Nov 15, 17 5:59 pm
Nothing about New Urbanism mandates style, but unfortunately 90% of the examples of new urbanism appropriate this schlock, so people tend to mistake the style for the philosophy.
davvid
Nov 15, 17 6:03 pm
My guess is that when lower ranked schools copy old Ivy League buildings, the intention is to recreate the Ivy League look, even while actual Ivies are building mostly contemporary buildings. Therefore, the architecture has much more to do with brand association than it does with history or quality.
JLC-1
Nov 15, 17 6:09 pm
Yes, the principles of NU are laudable, however, when applied to capitalist development, they translate very poorly because of the nature of the business (scale economies, lower design fees, even lower construction costs) producing neighborhoods that have to have a style, otherwise the realtor can't say a word.
davvid
Nov 15, 17 6:11 pm
tduds, I didn't mention New Urbanism.
tduds
Nov 16, 17 4:59 pm
JLC did.
Kevin Wagner
Nov 15, 17 4:06 pm
Planning departments and commissions eat that stuff up. It is less upsetting to ordinary citizens that think everything needs a foam cornice and a clay tile roof. Code words "historic fabric".
Peter Normand
Nov 16, 17 6:01 pm
Fits the "character of the neighborhood" and is essential in easing the political friction when trying to build something in an existing urban neighborhood when NIMBYs might have the political or legal means to thwart a project.
Erik Evens
Nov 15, 17 4:49 pm
I'm trying to understand what you are criticizing, besides bad architecture. How are those two buildings "contextual"?
JLC-1
Nov 15, 17 5:01 pm
read the design guidelines. that's how.
davvid
Nov 15, 17 5:04 pm
Erik,
The first building is the Buffalo Naval and Military Museum. It was designed by Flynn Battaglia Architects in 2007. It is part of a master plan for an entire Erie Canal-themed district called Canalside. Local architects, activists, and politicians argue that the architecture borrows from buildings that once stood here.
The second building is in Chicago and appears to borrow elements from Frank Lloyd Wright's prairie style.
Volunteer
Nov 15, 17 5:29 pm
Well, this is the historical fabric at Princeton. Not a foam cornice in sight. A lot of the Princeton collegiate gothic buildings were built after the first skyscrapers, so they were anything but contemporary when built.
davvid
Nov 15, 17 5:33 pm
Well, that is a select view of Princeton. There are many buildings that do not look like that, including the building that contains the school of architecture.
JLC-1
Nov 15, 17 5:52 pm
can you shoot an arrow through all three thresholds? and who was the lord of the castle?, I see more than one blazon above the arch.
Volunteer
Nov 15, 17 5:52 pm
There are many building at Princeton that DO look like this and, in fact, it is the signature look of the campus.
davvid
Nov 15, 17 5:58 pm
I guess this is where I encounter "timelessness"... The buildings that are being built now do not look like this. These buildings were being built around the 1910s. I feel that this time-related bit of context matters quite a lot.
Volunteer
Nov 15, 17 6:02 pm
Actually the recently completed Whitman College at Princeton looks EXACTLY like this.
davvid
Nov 15, 17 6:08 pm
Ok. My question still stands. What were the intentions behind Whitman College's contextualism?
Volunteer
Nov 15, 17 6:17 pm
Well, Meg Whitman said that she was just tremendously impressed with the collegiate gothic atmosphere and beauty of the campus when she attended a generation earlier and she wanted to add to that texture. And she did.
Peter Normand
Nov 16, 17 6:09 pm
The collegiate architecture is more about signaling a set of values and ideas about collage and what that means. The architecture associated with IVY League universities as compared to the brutalist and modernist architecture of community colleges is important to the institutions that shell out huge amounts of money to build and maintain these ornate buildings which are part of the package they sell to their potential students.
davvid
Nov 16, 17 6:17 pm
I don't think its all that dichotomous. Plenty of Ivies have modern and contemporary buildings. And plenty of smaller or public colleges have traditional bell towers covered in ivy.
chigurh
Nov 15, 17 6:08 pm
I don't understand how the pictures in the OP relate, is this synonymous with faux historical? In context to what? How do 2 isolated photographs of buildings illustrate contextualism?
davvid
Nov 15, 17 6:15 pm
Do you not encounter this usage of the word in conversations with community groups? I have also heard it phrased as "sympathetic to the context" ... I posted a comment that explains why they are considered to be "contextual" by some people.
chigurh
Nov 15, 17 6:22 pm
of course I have heard the usage of the word, I just fail to see how your pics illustrate any context. Personally, I don't think there is any merit on a design level to engage in contextualism. Urban planning is a different story. Buildings and cities are typically more interesting when there are changes in the fabric not uniformity.
davvid
Nov 16, 17 11:49 am
The first building is based on a type of Erie Canal-era warehouse building that used to be common in the area.
The second building is in Chicago and is derivative of FLW's Prairie style that was developed in Chicago.
davvid
Nov 16, 17 11:49 am
The first building is based on a type of Erie Canal-era warehouse building that used to be common in the area.
Erik Evens
Nov 15, 17 6:15 pm
Communities often want to see new construction align with, and to be harmonious with the aesthetics of a place that they love. That's not so hard to understand.
Whether the new construction actually achieves that goal, well, that's another story. The two examples you've posted are simply ugly, badly proportioned and badly detailed, whether "contextural" or not.
davvid
Nov 16, 17 11:55 am
Maybe its that idea of "alignment" that needs to be probed.
randomised
Nov 16, 17 1:15 am
It's because people think their life sucks and it was better in the good old days, so if we only would build like they did back then and surround ourselves with things that look from a better past, all will be fine. But they're wrong.
What are the intentions behind the kind of popular contextualism we see so often in American cities? Is it supposed to be beautiful? Psychologically comforting? Educational? Reverential? Or is it just politically safe?
none of the above, is mandated by new urbanism guidelines, drafted by lawyers and enforced by "volunteers" in HOA meetings. Oh, and it's cheap, so it can be fixed within annual budget.
But what are the intentions behind the mandates and guidelines?
ah, to make it look "timeless" - as if that comes from ornate and fake bricks. I see it as a transvestism, where developers sell an image of something the buyers can never be. It's not only the architects and developers fault anyway.
there was a trend a while back about new campus buildings somewhere in california that were made to look like princeton, why do you think that is? beyond the architectural "contextualism" as you call it, I believe it's psychological marketing, appealing to your most basic social-climbing instincts.
I think you're right. The concept of "timelessness"; the hope of being able to transcend time is major factor.
Princeton's collegiate gothic buildings were made to resemble the buildings of Oxford and Cambridge, so the Cali buildings were copies of a copy.
exactly, and that's how everything degenerates
Or, improves, as new elements of the order, in this case collegiate gothic, are developed .
never said degenerate was bad.
Nothing about New Urbanism mandates style, but unfortunately 90% of the examples of new urbanism appropriate this schlock, so people tend to mistake the style for the philosophy.
My guess is that when lower ranked schools copy old Ivy League buildings, the intention is to recreate the Ivy League look, even while actual Ivies are building mostly contemporary buildings. Therefore, the architecture has much more to do with brand association than it does with history or quality.
Yes, the principles of NU are laudable, however, when applied to capitalist development, they translate very poorly because of the nature of the business (scale economies, lower design fees, even lower construction costs) producing neighborhoods that have to have a style, otherwise the realtor can't say a word.
tduds, I didn't mention New Urbanism.
JLC did.
Planning departments and commissions eat that stuff up. It is less upsetting to ordinary citizens that think everything needs a foam cornice and a clay tile roof. Code words "historic fabric".
Fits the "character of the neighborhood" and is essential in easing the political friction when trying to build something in an existing urban neighborhood when NIMBYs might have the political or legal means to thwart a project.
I'm trying to understand what you are criticizing, besides bad architecture. How are those two buildings "contextual"?
read the design guidelines. that's how.
Erik,
The first building is the Buffalo Naval and Military Museum. It was designed by Flynn Battaglia Architects in 2007. It is part of a master plan for an entire Erie Canal-themed district called Canalside. Local architects, activists, and politicians argue that the architecture borrows from buildings that once stood here.
The second building is in Chicago and appears to borrow elements from Frank Lloyd Wright's prairie style.
Well, this is the historical fabric at Princeton. Not a foam cornice in sight. A lot of the Princeton collegiate gothic buildings were built after the first skyscrapers, so they were anything but contemporary when built.
Well, that is a select view of Princeton. There are many buildings that do not look like that, including the building that contains the school of architecture.
can you shoot an arrow through all three thresholds? and who was the lord of the castle?, I see more than one blazon above the arch.
There are many building at Princeton that DO look like this and, in fact, it is the signature look of the campus.
I guess this is where I encounter "timelessness"... The buildings that are being built now do not look like this. These buildings were being built around the 1910s. I feel that this time-related bit of context matters quite a lot.
Actually the recently completed Whitman College at Princeton looks EXACTLY like this.
Ok. My question still stands. What were the intentions behind Whitman College's contextualism?
Well, Meg Whitman said that she was just tremendously impressed with the collegiate gothic atmosphere and beauty of the campus when she attended a generation earlier and she wanted to add to that texture. And she did.
The collegiate architecture is more about signaling a set of values and ideas about collage and what that means. The architecture associated with IVY League universities as compared to the brutalist and modernist architecture of community colleges is important to the institutions that shell out huge amounts of money to build and maintain these ornate buildings which are part of the package they sell to their potential students.
I don't think its all that dichotomous. Plenty of Ivies have modern and contemporary buildings. And plenty of smaller or public colleges have traditional bell towers covered in ivy.
I don't understand how the pictures in the OP relate, is this synonymous with faux historical? In context to what? How do 2 isolated photographs of buildings illustrate contextualism?
Do you not encounter this usage of the word in conversations with community groups? I have also heard it phrased as "sympathetic to the context" ... I posted a comment that explains why they are considered to be "contextual" by some people.
of course I have heard the usage of the word, I just fail to see how your pics illustrate any context. Personally, I don't think there is any merit on a design level to engage in contextualism. Urban planning is a different story. Buildings and cities are typically more interesting when there are changes in the fabric not uniformity.
The first building is based on a type of Erie Canal-era warehouse building that used to be common in the area.
The second building is in Chicago and is derivative of FLW's Prairie style that was developed in Chicago.
The first building is based on a type of Erie Canal-era warehouse building that used to be common in the area.
Communities often want to see new construction align with, and to be harmonious with the aesthetics of a place that they love. That's not so hard to understand.
Whether the new construction actually achieves that goal, well, that's another story. The two examples you've posted are simply ugly, badly proportioned and badly detailed, whether "contextural" or not.
Maybe its that idea of "alignment" that needs to be probed.
It's because people think their life sucks and it was better in the good old days, so if we only would build like they did back then and surround ourselves with things that look from a better past, all will be fine. But they're wrong.