I have started working in a small firm and I am handling serious construction for the first time and working with GC directly ( instead of just doing drafting ).
The project is a mess - we are designing and in construction parallely. Also having a very disorganized/ passive aggressive Project Manager as a superior is not really helping me.
I am not understanding the dynamic between GC & Designer & owner . Seems like there is a lot of politics involved.
Can anyone help break it down for me?
Thanks
Miles Jaffe
Oct 5, 17 11:41 pm
Self-interest is typically the guiding principle. Yours is following the instructions of the PM.
masochist
Oct 6, 17 9:43 am
Thanks ! that helps. I think keeping a certain distance with GC is helpful as well. I am always getting calls to rush things it is very annoying.
randomised
Oct 6, 17 10:35 am
Call them to rush things the minute you send over a drawing ;)
Josh Mings
Oct 6, 17 11:42 am
No matter what the GC says, there is no such thing as an emergency/need it now situation. They may have messed up and not coordinated/scheduled correctly, but if you rush something without fully vetting the solution, you'll only cause yourself headaches.
randomised
Oct 6, 17 12:08 am
Dinner and a movie and fingers crossed they ask you in for coffee.
masochist
Oct 6, 17 1:18 pm
True, client was pushing for a very aggressive schedule ( residential ) and we sent out a half cooked bid set. and a full construction set was never issued. Its a very piecemeal situation.
Consultants are sending drawings directly to the GC ( contracted as a construction manager to keep things on schedule ) . So we are not getting the opportunity to fully check drawings and make sure things are coordinated. ( sorry for venting!! )
I do not have the experience to handle a project of this scale .I was hired as an intermediate but doing PM work ( great experience but my family life is sh*t)
Now GC is pissed we are not issuing things in time but I do not want to issue without my boss/PM's approval.
I am not sure what my answer should be when he is on the phone screaming at me ( where is my drawing!! )
Non Sequitur
Oct 6, 17 1:43 pm
Tell them to wait the appropriate time and that nothing is so important that it can't wait 24hrs. If that does not work, send them my way, I've already got a few similar projects on the go, one more more won't hurt. 8-)
thatsthat
Oct 6, 17 2:34 pm
I've been in your shoes and it sucks so much. I think I gained like 20 lbs from never seeing my house and stress eating at my desk! Anyway, when they call you screaming about needing whatever drawings / submittals / RFIs, it's ok to explain the situation, and tell them you'll get it to them when you can. If they press you, give them an estimated date when they can expect. That at least buys you some time. Don't let him get to you or make you upset. If they are always trying to rush you for things, it's because THEY aren't scheduling things in an efficient manner. Your PM should be doing a better job at mitigating these disasters.
JLC-1
Oct 6, 17 1:37 pm
don't ever trade family life for work, if you want to keep a family - work will always be there
masochist
Oct 6, 17 2:48 pm
will it be ? My goal is to learn everything I can. It has been a very steep learning curve. I lost a lot of time when I had a child. Now I am back to a super competitive place where no one has kids. So
its tough.
JLC-1
Oct 6, 17 2:52 pm
that's why they're called priorities. it is tough
geezertect
Oct 6, 17 2:15 pm
Make sure the high bosses know that the situation is a mess, so that you don't get blamed for the PM's mistakes.
masochist
Oct 6, 17 2:45 pm
its a small place. My Boss is always kept in the dark> Since I am new ( around 10 mo )I cannot really piss off my PM .
masochist
Oct 6, 17 3:50 pm
He has his ears. :P
geezertect
Oct 6, 17 4:27 pm
David is right. You MUST let the higher ups know, or the PM is going to throw you under the bus when the shit hits the fan. If you aren't confident to do that, it should tell you that you need to get out of there and fast.
spiketwig
Oct 6, 17 4:44 pm
You know your responsibility is not to the GC, right? It's to the owner. What does the owner say about this?
This situation calls for contracts 101. Would recommend reading a guide to the CDS 4.0 ARE it'll fill in some of those seemingly political blanks... and clarify what your ACTUAL responsibilities are. Then do those. Not whatever the GC has decided he wants you to do.
Also, read the contract. Read the specs. Know what they say. Between these two documents they should define who's supposed to be doing what when.
If these documents do not exist then run screaming.
Everyday Architect
Oct 6, 17 5:21 pm
one of the best responses so far
masochist
Oct 6, 17 5:52 pm
I agree !! All are great responses , but this best one so far.
Miles Jaffe
Oct 6, 17 7:34 pm
If you are the principle architect, your responsibility is to the owner. If you're an architectural PM, CAD monkey, intern, etc., your responsibility is to the principle architect.
As to the GC, he may very well need timely information to proceed according to schedule and budget, and it is the architect (and owner's) responsibility to provide this.
The very worst thing you could do as a deck hand is try to con the ship.
masochist
Oct 8, 17 11:06 am
Thanks a lot! Construction is serious business!!
masochist
Oct 8, 17 11:08 am
Also.. previously I never had as much exposure to the site. Now that I go there and you see your drawings in full size and tons of construction decision is taken from the drawings done.. It feels pretty damn scary .
x-jla
Oct 8, 17 11:50 am
I work with contractors all of the time both as their contract design guy in a design/build gig, or as an owners rep in my design/bid/build gigs where I often do not know the contractor. In both scenarios They are usually obsessed with getting things done fast, because unlike designers, it's hard to have projects overlapping as their equipment and workers are usually being tied up on the job. For me, working with contractors whom I know closely is the least productive way to work. It's healthy to keep a good distance and reserve your right to be a hard line prick. That healthy distance allows the fiduciary relationship to the client to be unobstructed by whatever personal or professional relationship you have with the gc. I work in landscape, and have made contractors return plants, re-do expensive hardscape, move trees 12" over, etc. Im also know to buy lunch for the crew, pick up a shovel if they are short staffed, and ask them advice when about things they know better. When It's a design/build thing Its harder to be that guy, and it's almost impossible to represent the clients best interests because the builder is writing the check and contracting with the client. Design/build is a shitty project delivery method imo. I am slowly but surely getting away from these projects and going 100% design/bid/build.
masochist
Oct 8, 17 1:42 pm
I do not think the project is design build in paper. Since GC is contracted as a CM with the Owner & we have a separate design contract with the owner. However, the owner pursued our firm to go to construction with a very rudimentary bid set. Now a lot of issues are arising as we are not being able to keep up with the site demands.
Miles Jaffe
Oct 8, 17 1:59 pm
That's only one model for design/build, and as you say conflicts are inherent. The model I use is much simpler - I provide all services directly to the client. With that model close working relationships with subs - built over time are - are critical.
masochist
Oct 8, 17 2:03 pm
Oh I see now what you are saying. Oh for sure the model you describe design -build,relationship wise is much more complex . Also I cannot imagine dealing with the subs that closely. would drive me insane
!!
x-jla
Oct 8, 17 3:36 pm
Then, it's your fault for going into construction with a rudimentary bid set. You need to spell the process out in your contract.
curtkram
Oct 8, 17 12:29 pm
never do the contractor's job for them. never tell one of the contractor's subs what to do or how to do it. that's a conflict of interest that will almost always end horribly.
you can tell the contractor how to do his job, just not the people he's responsible for.
Hello,
I have started working in a small firm and I am handling serious construction for the first time and working with GC directly ( instead of just doing drafting ).
The project is a mess - we are designing and in construction parallely. Also having a very disorganized/ passive aggressive Project Manager as a superior is not really helping me.
I am not understanding the dynamic between GC & Designer & owner . Seems like there is a lot of politics involved.
Can anyone help break it down for me?
Thanks
Self-interest is typically the guiding principle. Yours is following the instructions of the PM.
Thanks ! that helps. I think keeping a certain distance with GC is helpful as well. I am always getting calls to rush things it is very annoying.
Call them to rush things the minute you send over a drawing ;)
No matter what the GC says, there is no such thing as an emergency/need it now situation. They may have messed up and not coordinated/scheduled correctly, but if you rush something without fully vetting the solution, you'll only cause yourself headaches.
Dinner and a movie and fingers crossed they ask you in for coffee.
True, client was pushing for a very aggressive schedule ( residential ) and we sent out a half cooked bid set. and a full construction set was never issued. Its a very piecemeal situation.
Consultants are sending drawings directly to the GC ( contracted as a construction manager to keep things on schedule ) . So we are not getting the opportunity to fully check drawings and make sure things are coordinated. ( sorry for venting!! )
I do not have the experience to handle a project of this scale .I was hired as an intermediate but doing PM work ( great experience but my family life is sh*t)
Now GC is pissed we are not issuing things in time but I do not want to issue without my boss/PM's approval.
I am not sure what my answer should be when he is on the phone screaming at me ( where is my drawing!! )
Tell them to wait the appropriate time and that nothing is so important that it can't wait 24hrs. If that does not work, send them my way, I've already got a few similar projects on the go, one more more won't hurt. 8-)
I've been in your shoes and it sucks so much. I think I gained like 20 lbs from never seeing my house and stress eating at my desk! Anyway, when they call you screaming about needing whatever drawings / submittals / RFIs, it's ok to explain the situation, and tell them you'll get it to them when you can. If they press you, give them an estimated date when they can expect. That at least buys you some time. Don't let him get to you or make you upset. If they are always trying to rush you for things, it's because THEY aren't scheduling things in an efficient manner. Your PM should be doing a better job at mitigating these disasters.
don't ever trade family life for work, if you want to keep a family - work will always be there
will it be ? My goal is to learn everything I can. It has been a very steep learning curve. I lost a lot of time when I had a child. Now I am back to a super competitive place where no one has kids. So its tough.
that's why they're called priorities. it is tough
Make sure the high bosses know that the situation is a mess, so that you don't get blamed for the PM's mistakes.
its a small place. My Boss is always kept in the dark> Since I am new ( around 10 mo )I cannot really piss off my PM .
He has his ears. :P
David is right. You MUST let the higher ups know, or the PM is going to throw you under the bus when the shit hits the fan. If you aren't confident to do that, it should tell you that you need to get out of there and fast.
You know your responsibility is not to the GC, right? It's to the owner. What does the owner say about this?
This situation calls for contracts 101. Would recommend reading a guide to the CDS 4.0 ARE it'll fill in some of those seemingly political blanks... and clarify what your ACTUAL responsibilities are. Then do those. Not whatever the GC has decided he wants you to do.
Also, read the contract. Read the specs. Know what they say. Between these two documents they should define who's supposed to be doing what when.
If these documents do not exist then run screaming.
one of the best responses so far
I agree !! All are great responses , but this best one so far.
If you are the principle architect, your responsibility is to the owner. If you're an architectural PM, CAD monkey, intern, etc., your responsibility is to the principle architect.
As to the GC, he may very well need timely information to proceed according to schedule and budget, and it is the architect (and owner's) responsibility to provide this.
The very worst thing you could do as a deck hand is try to con the ship.
Thanks a lot! Construction is serious business!!
Also.. previously I never had as much exposure to the site. Now that I go there and you see your drawings in full size and tons of construction decision is taken from the drawings done.. It feels pretty damn scary .
I work with contractors all of the time both as their contract design guy in a design/build gig, or as an owners rep in my design/bid/build gigs where I often do not know the contractor. In both scenarios They are usually obsessed with getting things done fast, because unlike designers, it's hard to have projects overlapping as their equipment and workers are usually being tied up on the job. For me, working with contractors whom I know closely is the least productive way to work. It's healthy to keep a good distance and reserve your right to be a hard line prick. That healthy distance allows the fiduciary relationship to the client to be unobstructed by whatever personal or professional relationship you have with the gc. I work in landscape, and have made contractors return plants, re-do expensive hardscape, move trees 12" over, etc. Im also know to buy lunch for the crew, pick up a shovel if they are short staffed, and ask them advice when about things they know better. When It's a design/build thing Its harder to be that guy, and it's almost impossible to represent the clients best interests because the builder is writing the check and contracting with the client. Design/build is a shitty project delivery method imo. I am slowly but surely getting away from these projects and going 100% design/bid/build.
I do not think the project is design build in paper. Since GC is contracted as a CM with the Owner & we have a separate design contract with the owner. However, the owner pursued our firm to go to construction with a very rudimentary bid set. Now a lot of issues are arising as we are not being able to keep up with the site demands.
That's only one model for design/build, and as you say conflicts are inherent. The model I use is much simpler - I provide all services directly to the client. With that model close working relationships with subs - built over time are - are critical.
Oh I see now what you are saying. Oh for sure the model you describe design -build,relationship wise is much more complex . Also I cannot imagine dealing with the subs that closely. would drive me insane !!
Then, it's your fault for going into construction with a rudimentary bid set. You need to spell the process out in your contract.
never do the contractor's job for them. never tell one of the contractor's subs what to do or how to do it. that's a conflict of interest that will almost always end horribly.
you can tell the contractor how to do his job, just not the people he's responsible for.