Ikea is a non-profit, which sounds kind crazy until you think about the fact that when most of us work on design projects, we are in the pursuit of bettering something over maximizing profit. Could architects work easily under a non-profit situation? Why or why not? We already don't work for profit. Just thinking out loud.
randomised
Aug 20, 17 2:16 am
Should be possible, I already don't work to make a profit but to simply earn a living.
Miles Jaffe
Aug 20, 17 7:03 am
Non-profit my ass.
According to the Economist: “The overall set-up of IKEA minimizes tax and disclosure, handsomely rewards the founding Kamprad family and makes IKEA immune to a takeover.”
"non-profit" is a synonym for good tax accountant.
Wilma Buttfit
Aug 20, 17 8:39 am
I was thinking again (dangerous, I know) that many architecture firms are pass through entities anyways, where the company doesn't pay taxes but the people it employs does. Likewise, the people who work for non-profits also pay taxes. The idea of a non-profit being a tax shelter is only for corporations who pay taxes. I'm not necessarily interested in a tax shelter as much as I am the idea of a firm that is run with the mission of the greater good in mind and not profit, which is how business is defined and is not entirely suitable given how architecture is practiced. I want to practice with a greater good motive, not a profit motive... because I already do. The perks then I can get are on
Wilma Buttfit
Aug 20, 17 8:40 am
Oops, big thumb pushed the button. ...in sending the message about design and making it a cause people can get behind and support.
Wilma Buttfit
Aug 20, 17 8:43 am
First 4 people to post are invited to be on the board. :)
Miles Jaffe
Aug 20, 17 9:03 am
CEO
Wilma Buttfit
Aug 20, 17 9:30 am
You want to be president? We have to vote...
Miles Jaffe
Aug 20, 17 9:31 am
CEO isn't president. It's more like board approved dictator.
Wilma Buttfit
Aug 20, 17 9:38 am
CEO means corporate. Corporate is not it.
Miles Jaffe
Aug 20, 17 9:40 am
Chief Executive Officer. Corporation not required, but beneficial for tax purposes. IKEA is a non-profit corporation.
Miles Jaffe
Aug 20, 17 9:41 am
But on second thought I'd rather just get board perks by rubber stamping various schemes and showing up to the annual meeting.
Miles Jaffe
Aug 20, 17 9:44 am
Sorry, tintt, I don't mean to be snide. Late night, a bit hungover, only functioning at 50% of my usual 20%. I admire your ideals but see them doomed to failure in a society that measures value with the only thing it values (money).
You don't need an organization to do what you want to do and in practice an organization will likely prevent you from doing what you want to do.
Wilma Buttfit
Aug 20, 17 9:59 am
I don't see your comments as snide. Feedback is welcome. But I don't live in your world, in my world a non-profit design group is a great idea and a real possibility. How do you know what it is I want to do anyways? I'm not even sure myself, I develop and inform my ideas as I go, still baking them.
Miles Jaffe
Aug 20, 17 10:17 am
My experience is definitely burned by charity charades and tax dodges. Like I said, I admire your ideals. Profit is an inhumane concept. The wealth of a few is made from the poverty of many.
Wilma Buttfit
Aug 20, 17 10:53 am
You could use an extended vacation. Get out of that place for a bit.
BulgarBlogger
Aug 20, 17 10:13 am
My own personal firm gives away 10 of its profits to charity. The most basic rule of fundraising is that the donors must actually give away funds. They cannot receive goods and services in return for their gifts, nor can they obtain dividends on their investment. Donors can receive recognition and small tokens of appreciation, but if they receive a monetary return for the donation, they will lose their tax deduction, and the nonprofit organization could lose its tax exemption.
BulgarBlogger
Aug 20, 17 10:14 am
10% *
Wilma Buttfit
Aug 20, 17 10:22 am
I have experience starting a non-profit already. The group had a few other architects as well as several other people, started as a club, got non-profit status after a few years. I am no longer part but it is still successful, has grown condsiderably and has been making an impact in not just the built environment, but making a social and economic impact as well. We won a competition and got a bunch of grant money and donations.
archi_dude
Aug 20, 17 10:22 am
It's always ironic that I hear this around the office, but then 10 minutes later hear the same people say we don't get paid enough, there aren't any perks, there's no job security, why aren't there bonuses. Blah blah. I'm of the mindset that if you truly want people to get behind design make a god damn industry study.
Wilma Buttfit
Aug 20, 17 10:31 am
You hear what? That people want to start a non-profit? Interesting.
curtkram
Aug 20, 17 10:49 am
you're thinking an architecture office that does the same work, for the same amount of money, still pays employees and provides health insurance, but at the end of the year if you show a profit it has to be returned back into the company?
Wilma Buttfit
Aug 20, 17 10:52 am
Yes, sort of. And we would go for donations and grants and maybe a sliding payment scale so wealthier clients could subsidize less wealthy clients or other non-profits like women's shelters.
Wilma Buttfit
Aug 20, 17 11:14 am
The other way I see it is if the non-profit group unites people around a project, visualizes it, raises money, and then hired
for-profit entities to carry out the work.
curtkram
Aug 20, 17 11:59 am
Any project I can think of that I've worked on exists either to support the clients business or for a developer to profit of lease income. I can't think of many cases where donations from the community would be appropriate.
I hear of incubator spaces, which I suppose is supposed to sort of subsidized leases for people trying to start small businesses, so maybe that's appropriate. Of course low income housing should be taken away from developers, so that could be a good market.
geezertect
Aug 20, 17 12:18 pm
If you are doing the same work, for the same money, and paying people the same as other firms, then you are saying the owners/principals would be ones to settle for less total compensation. What's so noble about saying that someone else, not you, make a sacrifice?
Wilma Buttfit
Aug 20, 17 12:19 pm
I have experienced many design opportunities that were not centered around business, here's my list: an ag education program on a farm, a farmer's market (co-op) and restaurant, an ex-con work rehab program, a women's shelter, a bike path, a community wayfinding and branding project, a sculpture park, a picnic and play installation in a park, a school, a home school program, a meeting room in a library, a kid's camp, a senior center, a credit counseling center, and a live-work rehab farm. These projects all go beyond the buildings themselves. Also could do community gardens, things like reading rooms or climbing walls in schools, food banks and service.
geezertect
Aug 20, 17 1:27 pm
The project types you cite probably have very low fees to begin with, so that by the time you pay market rates for employees and partners' salary draws, there is no profit anyway. So, what's the difference between being a non-profit enterprise or an unprofitable one? Aren't we arguing semantics, and what difference does any of this mean in the daily grind of life?
Wilma Buttfit
Aug 20, 17 1:49 pm
Some of them had no fee. The non-profit I was involved in won a design competition offfered by the state that got us lots of money, expedited entitlements, and started a wave in the community of donations that is still going. People write it into their wills, they donate their savings to a park for kids type of stuff. Geezer, a key difference between a non-profit and a non non-profit is the social structure. Non-profits can get pro bono legal, marketing, and accounting services from top professionals. Non-profits can spread their message on a different platform (betterment) than the usual profit platform which means people talk about you and promote you and become an extension of your outreach team, getting words out that private for-profit businesses struggle with, namely that design matters.
Wilma Buttfit
Aug 21, 17 10:13 am
geezer, another difference is that a non-profit centered around promoting good design is open to everyone who is interested, so it is not a firm where everyone pretty much has the same degree and knowledge. It isn't exclusive, it is inclusive.
Wilma Buttfit
Aug 21, 17 1:34 pm
geezer, instead of employees obtained by traditional methods like hiring through a job board or recruiter, with a non-profit, the people involved are more fluid and for example there could be paid staff, consultants and advisors, and varying levels of involvement for all. Basically, if you are interested, you can join. If you aren't, you don't. I do occasional work (volunteer) for a non-profit who builds infrastructure and because it is a betterment motive, they get college students and church groups to help. There are retirees who like to volunteer too, all motivated by doing something that isn't profit driven.
randomised
Aug 20, 17 1:24 pm
Okay I'm in :) as second to respond after David in the thread, don't want to do any CEO, financial or board meeting b.s. though, just fun creative stuff. Since it's your idea tintt, you can let me know what and how you could use any help :)
Wilma Buttfit
Aug 20, 17 1:30 pm
Vice President. Edit: Oh wait, that's a board position. Never mind.
Wilma Buttfit
Aug 20, 17 1:50 pm
As VP, you could attend the annual meeting and vote on measures and express your creativity and have lots of fun. You'd have to bring the message to your wealthy friends who would donate and help spread the message though...
randomised
Aug 20, 17 3:52 pm
I don't have wealthy friends though, they're mostly architects, teachers, designers and artists.
Ikea is a non-profit, which sounds kind crazy until you think about the fact that when most of us work on design projects, we are in the pursuit of bettering something over maximizing profit. Could architects work easily under a non-profit situation? Why or why not? We already don't work for profit. Just thinking out loud.
Should be possible, I already don't work to make a profit but to simply earn a living.
Non-profit my ass.
According to the Economist: “The overall set-up of IKEA minimizes tax and disclosure, handsomely rewards the founding Kamprad family and makes IKEA immune to a takeover.”
http://www.onlinemba.com/blog/...
"non-profit" is a synonym for good tax accountant.
I was thinking again (dangerous, I know) that many architecture firms are pass through entities anyways, where the company doesn't pay taxes but the people it employs does. Likewise, the people who work for non-profits also pay taxes. The idea of a non-profit being a tax shelter is only for corporations who pay taxes. I'm not necessarily interested in a tax shelter as much as I am the idea of a firm that is run with the mission of the greater good in mind and not profit, which is how business is defined and is not entirely suitable given how architecture is practiced. I want to practice with a greater good motive, not a profit motive... because I already do. The perks then I can get are on
Oops, big thumb pushed the button. ...in sending the message about design and making it a cause people can get behind and support.
First 4 people to post are invited to be on the board. :)
CEO
You want to be president? We have to vote...
CEO isn't president. It's more like board approved dictator.
CEO means corporate. Corporate is not it.
Chief Executive Officer. Corporation not required, but beneficial for tax purposes. IKEA is a non-profit corporation.
But on second thought I'd rather just get board perks by rubber stamping various schemes and showing up to the annual meeting.
Sorry, tintt, I don't mean to be snide. Late night, a bit hungover, only functioning at 50% of my usual 20%. I admire your ideals but see them doomed to failure in a society that measures value with the only thing it values (money).
You don't need an organization to do what you want to do and in practice an organization will likely prevent you from doing what you want to do.
I don't see your comments as snide. Feedback is welcome. But I don't live in your world, in my world a non-profit design group is a great idea and a real possibility. How do you know what it is I want to do anyways? I'm not even sure myself, I develop and inform my ideas as I go, still baking them.
My experience is definitely burned by charity charades and tax dodges. Like I said, I admire your ideals. Profit is an inhumane concept. The wealth of a few is made from the poverty of many.
You could use an extended vacation. Get out of that place for a bit.
My own personal firm gives away 10 of its profits to charity. The most basic rule of fundraising is that the donors must actually give away funds. They cannot receive goods and services in return for their gifts, nor can they obtain dividends on their investment. Donors can receive recognition and small tokens of appreciation, but if they receive a monetary return for the donation, they will lose their tax deduction, and the nonprofit organization could lose its tax exemption.
10% *
I have experience starting a non-profit already. The group had a few other architects as well as several other people, started as a club, got non-profit status after a few years. I am no longer part but it is still successful, has grown condsiderably and has been making an impact in not just the built environment, but making a social and economic impact as well. We won a competition and got a bunch of grant money and donations.
It's always ironic that I hear this around the office, but then 10 minutes later hear the same people say we don't get paid enough, there aren't any perks, there's no job security, why aren't there bonuses. Blah blah. I'm of the mindset that if you truly want people to get behind design make a god damn industry study.
You hear what? That people want to start a non-profit? Interesting.
you're thinking an architecture office that does the same work, for the same amount of money, still pays employees and provides health insurance, but at the end of the year if you show a profit it has to be returned back into the company?
Yes, sort of. And we would go for donations and grants and maybe a sliding payment scale so wealthier clients could subsidize less wealthy clients or other non-profits like women's shelters.
The other way I see it is if the non-profit group unites people around a project, visualizes it, raises money, and then hired
for-profit entities to carry out the work.
Any project I can think of that I've worked on exists either to support the clients business or for a developer to profit of lease income. I can't think of many cases where donations from the community would be appropriate.
I hear of incubator spaces, which I suppose is supposed to sort of subsidized leases for people trying to start small businesses, so maybe that's appropriate. Of course low income housing should be taken away from developers, so that could be a good market.
If you are doing the same work, for the same money, and paying people the same as other firms, then you are saying the owners/principals would be ones to settle for less total compensation. What's so noble about saying that someone else, not you, make a sacrifice?
I have experienced many design opportunities that were not centered around business, here's my list: an ag education program on a farm, a farmer's market (co-op) and restaurant, an ex-con work rehab program, a women's shelter, a bike path, a community wayfinding and branding project, a sculpture park, a picnic and play installation in a park, a school, a home school program, a meeting room in a library, a kid's camp, a senior center, a credit counseling center, and a live-work rehab farm. These projects all go beyond the buildings themselves. Also could do community gardens, things like reading rooms or climbing walls in schools, food banks and service.
The project types you cite probably have very low fees to begin with, so that by the time you pay market rates for employees and partners' salary draws, there is no profit anyway. So, what's the difference between being a non-profit enterprise or an unprofitable one? Aren't we arguing semantics, and what difference does any of this mean in the daily grind of life?
Some of them had no fee. The non-profit I was involved in won a design competition offfered by the state that got us lots of money, expedited entitlements, and started a wave in the community of donations that is still going. People write it into their wills, they donate their savings to a park for kids type of stuff. Geezer, a key difference between a non-profit and a non non-profit is the social structure. Non-profits can get pro bono legal, marketing, and accounting services from top professionals. Non-profits can spread their message on a different platform (betterment) than the usual profit platform which means people talk about you and promote you and become an extension of your outreach team, getting words out that private for-profit businesses struggle with, namely that design matters.
geezer, another difference is that a non-profit centered around promoting good design is open to everyone who is interested, so it is not a firm where everyone pretty much has the same degree and knowledge. It isn't exclusive, it is inclusive.
geezer, instead of employees obtained by traditional methods like hiring through a job board or recruiter, with a non-profit, the people involved are more fluid and for example there could be paid staff, consultants and advisors, and varying levels of involvement for all. Basically, if you are interested, you can join. If you aren't, you don't. I do occasional work (volunteer) for a non-profit who builds infrastructure and because it is a betterment motive, they get college students and church groups to help. There are retirees who like to volunteer too, all motivated by doing something that isn't profit driven.
Okay I'm in :) as second to respond after David in the thread, don't want to do any CEO, financial or board meeting b.s. though, just fun creative stuff. Since it's your idea tintt, you can let me know what and how you could use any help :)
Vice President. Edit: Oh wait, that's a board position. Never mind.
As VP, you could attend the annual meeting and vote on measures and express your creativity and have lots of fun. You'd have to bring the message to your wealthy friends who would donate and help spread the message though...
I don't have wealthy friends though, they're mostly architects, teachers, designers and artists.
Ah well, you can be an advisor then.