I'm in the early stages of a potential move to our San Francisco office. I'm currently based out of one of our offices in the Southeast US and after reviewing a few cost of living calculators I would need to nearly double my salary to maintain the same "standard of living" but that's not going to happen.
Has anyone transferred to the area and what did your firm offer in the way of a cost of living adjustment? I've reviewed the always handy archinect salary poll and the pay for similar positions/level of experience is about 40-45% higher.
Josh Mings
Aug 9, 17 1:24 pm
I think it's a requirement to post an Instagram selfie with the caption 'Yay Area" once a week if you move there.
You'll also probably need a sugar mama/daddy
SneakyPete
Aug 9, 17 3:59 pm
I changed firms.
zonker
Aug 10, 17 4:33 pm
I moved to SF from San Diego, no relocation paid
its very tech oriented here - you will need to learn programming if you don't already - many firms expect you to know grasshopper and dynamo, python, C# -
archiwutm8
Aug 11, 17 6:57 am
Fuck, if you knew all of those languages you might as well get out of archi and make real money.
geezertect
Aug 11, 17 8:16 am
Blasphemy!
archinine
Aug 10, 17 11:25 pm
Xenakis - it sounds like you could just work at the tech companies nearby at that point. Cost of living adjusted.
I'm surprised David didn't recommend the lawyer trick, it must be awfully full over there.
chigurh
Aug 10, 17 11:58 pm
sf was cool 20 years ago.
SneakyPete
Aug 11, 17 2:26 pm
I rather like the Sentinel Building. And One Jackson Place. And 680 Folsom (not that garishly lit garbage in front, though).And the PG&E Building.
geezertect
Aug 11, 17 8:18 am
David, seriously, how do young people who move out there without a wad of money survive? Fifteen room mates in a one bedroom unit? My impression is that the salary bump doesn't cover the hideous cost of living. Beautiful city, but what good does that do you when you are working in your cubicle 80 hours a week just to survive. I've never understood it.
SneakyPete
Aug 11, 17 2:26 pm
Live outside the 7x7.
SneakyPete
Aug 11, 17 8:14 pm
7 miles by 7 miles
accesskb
Aug 11, 17 7:45 pm
I know a friend who moved to SF from Seattle after he got a raise from 150k to 250k Even he complains that his $3000/month, one bedroom apartment is ridiculously expensive.
LITS4FormZ
Aug 12, 17 12:34 pm
Thank you for the feedback. It seems that $3000/month is the minimum cost if you want your own place without 5 roommates and you need make 3x that gross to even qualify for housing. I can't imagine how new grads could start out there. It has to make sense economically or at least be close to comparable, even with the crazy expensive housing.
SneakyPete
Aug 14, 17 12:17 pm
The commute from East Bay isn't bad. And rents get you better accommodations
.
SneakyPete
Aug 14, 17 6:35 pm
Marin made the commutes suck on purpose. God forbid people who use MASS TRANSIT infect Marin.
archinine
Aug 12, 17 6:31 pm
FormZ is there a reason you want to go to SF? Other than it's cool or whatever (it's not they roll up the sidewalks at like 9pm). Just curious, understandable if it's private.
According to salary, payscale, Glassdoor and other income surveys, architecture actually tends to pay barely or slightly less than the national average in NYC, SF, and LA - though it's easier to find an opening it's rare to see a sizable cost of living adjustment.
I understand there are scenarios where being down south doesn't line up with other personal values, goals, sometimes even safety to an extent. Just know that you'll be giving up a lot of comforts in addition to any kind of financial security in order to live in any of those three cities. You really need to want to be there otherwise you'll be utterly miserable due to the bleak financial situation - and of course crappy roommates, there's always at least one. It isn't just housing either, expect to deal with poor transit options, long/delayed commutes, non stop tourists, overpriced food and other expensive necessities.
LITS4FormZ
Aug 12, 17 7:45 pm
Number one reason is for my spouse's career. We're very fortunate that she has interest from companies on both coasts when she finishes her masters next year. Either way our current location is going to change again.
We moved back from Singapore last year(a place actually more expensive than SF) so the cost of living for every day items isn't a huge shock. I do rather enjoy being back in the south because it's like everything is on sale again. The difference is that salaries were pretty well in line with the cost of living there, not seeing that as much in the SF area.
Our SF office is a regional office and relatively small. They currently have no design professionals on the building side. They have construction and project managers trying to communicate and solve issues with our offices on the east coast. The office is in need of help so I have a bit of leverage there. I'm tied up for a few months on my current project so there's time to work it out.
geezertect
Aug 12, 17 9:30 pm
If the SF office is small and in disarray, is the company committed to it? You don't want to get there only to have them close it down on you. I've heard horror stories of that happening to people (variety of industries).
archinine
Aug 13, 17 11:06 am
Hopefully your wife is a lawyer or some other high paid professional. The big 3 are much easier to live in with two middle/upper middle income earners. I just wouldn't count on architecture paying much better than any other place in the country. Unless you're a high ranking PM you'll likely see very little difference in salary the way you would with most professions. Even with two earners, the rent alone makes saving for a first time home purchase practically impossible, so the decision really depends a lot on your (both you and your wife) respective financial goals as well as professional.
The young grads you find in these cities typically don't last long or have a LOT of parental financial support. It compounds the issue of low pay and oversupply of cheap work. This can carry on for decades on the individual level, deflating wages in the field on a macro level.
Volunteer
Aug 14, 17 10:47 am
How to make it in SF? You can't. Statistically if you threw 100,000 people out of airplanes without a parachute one might land in a recently plowed field just right, get up and walk off uninjured (it has happened). The rest of the 99,999? Not so much. A lot of people confuse existing there, drawing down savings, and going into debt as 'making it'. It isn't.
x-jla
Aug 14, 17 11:25 am
why do people torture themselves to live in sf? I don't get it. Nice city, but will you be able to even enjoy it if your whole life is about paying stupid high living expenses?
SneakyPete
Aug 14, 17 12:18 pm
Quit looking at Salesforce, it's bad for your mental state.
archinine
Aug 14, 17 11:34 am
don't come NYC is full. Live in nj or staten island I hear they need architects.
archinine
Aug 14, 17 1:06 pm
No too late because LES is no longer cool. All condos. Only small pockets of Brooklyn remain hip enough to propel one to move cross country. But those parts are full too. And the trains don't work anyway. It's all full. And uncool.
archinine
Aug 14, 17 7:46 pm
I will be the Rep if I can use the apartment. But I will remain anonymous. I accept bitcoins. Your clients may refer to be as nine. Or 007. That is also ok.
LITS4FormZ
Oct 24, 17 4:28 pm
Update! Since so many of these posts often have no conclusion.
Initial offer was 30% increase, counter offer is 55% with justification(using actual costs, not some HR-generated cost of living adjustment).
JLC-1
Oct 24, 17 4:39 pm
so, no conclusion still...
LITS4FormZ
Oct 24, 17 4:44 pm
Since so many of these posts often have no updates or conclusions*
JLC-1
Oct 24, 17 4:45 pm
just
teasing, good luck on your negotiations!
LITS4FormZ
Oct 24, 17 4:46 pm
Thank you!
JonathanLivingston
Oct 24, 17 5:33 pm
Just had a friend move to SF to take a job with google X..... He was offered ~ 350k. So you know that's what your competing with. He can't find a house, has lost out on three offers now. Says he just doesn't have enough cash to compete. Fortunately they are paying his temporary housing until he can find a home to buy. So no vans.
JLC-1
Oct 24, 17 5:54 pm
paying is not how they become billionaires.
zonker
Oct 24, 17 6:15 pm
Or you can sleep in a van in my 'hood in Oakland - then someone will come by at 3am and "air condition" it with a Glok - which is what happened 2 nights ago - luckily no one was inside
LITS4FormZ
Dec 20, 17 5:00 pm
Final Update!
Just signed the paperwork to the make the transfer happen for the springtime next year, after my current assignment ends. We settled on a 60% salary increase.
I'm in the early stages of a potential move to our San Francisco office. I'm currently based out of one of our offices in the Southeast US and after reviewing a few cost of living calculators I would need to nearly double my salary to maintain the same "standard of living" but that's not going to happen.
Has anyone transferred to the area and what did your firm offer in the way of a cost of living adjustment? I've reviewed the always handy archinect salary poll and the pay for similar positions/level of experience is about 40-45% higher.
I think it's a requirement to post an Instagram selfie with the caption 'Yay Area" once a week if you move there.
You'll also probably need a sugar mama/daddy
I changed firms.
I moved to SF from San Diego, no relocation paid
its very tech oriented here - you will need to learn programming if you don't already - many firms expect you to know grasshopper and dynamo, python, C# -
Fuck, if you knew all of those languages you might as well get out of archi and make real money.
Blasphemy!
Xenakis - it sounds like you could just work at the tech companies nearby at that point. Cost of living adjusted.
I'm surprised David didn't recommend the lawyer trick, it must be awfully full over there.
sf was cool 20 years ago.
I rather like the Sentinel Building. And One Jackson Place. And 680 Folsom (not that garishly lit garbage in front, though).And the PG&E Building.
David, seriously, how do young people who move out there without a wad of money survive? Fifteen room mates in a one bedroom unit? My impression is that the salary bump doesn't cover the hideous cost of living. Beautiful city, but what good does that do you when you are working in your cubicle 80 hours a week just to survive. I've never understood it.
Live outside the 7x7.
7 miles by 7 miles
I know a friend who moved to SF from Seattle after he got a raise from 150k to 250k Even he complains that his $3000/month, one bedroom apartment is ridiculously expensive.
Thank you for the feedback. It seems that $3000/month is the minimum cost if you want your own place without 5 roommates and you need make 3x that gross to even qualify for housing. I can't imagine how new grads could start out there. It has to make sense economically or at least be close to comparable, even with the crazy expensive housing.
The commute from East Bay isn't bad. And rents get you better accommodations .
Marin made the commutes suck on purpose. God forbid people who use MASS TRANSIT infect Marin.
FormZ is there a reason you want to go to SF? Other than it's cool or whatever (it's not they roll up the sidewalks at like 9pm). Just curious, understandable if it's private.
According to salary, payscale, Glassdoor and other income surveys, architecture actually tends to pay barely or slightly less than the national average in NYC, SF, and LA - though it's easier to find an opening it's rare to see a sizable cost of living adjustment.
I understand there are scenarios where being down south doesn't line up with other personal values, goals, sometimes even safety to an extent. Just know that you'll be giving up a lot of comforts in addition to any kind of financial security in order to live in any of those three cities. You really need to want to be there otherwise you'll be utterly miserable due to the bleak financial situation - and of course crappy roommates, there's always at least one. It isn't just housing either, expect to deal with poor transit options, long/delayed commutes, non stop tourists, overpriced food and other expensive necessities.
Number one reason is for my spouse's career. We're very fortunate that she has interest from companies on both coasts when she finishes her masters next year. Either way our current location is going to change again.
We moved back from Singapore last year(a place actually more expensive than SF) so the cost of living for every day items isn't a huge shock. I do rather enjoy being back in the south because it's like everything is on sale again. The difference is that salaries were pretty well in line with the cost of living there, not seeing that as much in the SF area.
Our SF office is a regional office and relatively small. They currently have no design professionals on the building side. They have construction and project managers trying to communicate and solve issues with our offices on the east coast. The office is in need of help so I have a bit of leverage there. I'm tied up for a few months on my current project so there's time to work it out.
If the SF office is small and in disarray, is the company committed to it? You don't want to get there only to have them close it down on you. I've heard horror stories of that happening to people (variety of industries).
Hopefully your wife is a lawyer or some other high paid professional. The big 3 are much easier to live in with two middle/upper middle income earners. I just wouldn't count on architecture paying much better than any other place in the country. Unless you're a high ranking PM you'll likely see very little difference in salary the way you would with most professions. Even with two earners, the rent alone makes saving for a first time home purchase practically impossible, so the decision really depends a lot on your (both you and your wife) respective financial goals as well as professional.
The young grads you find in these cities typically don't last long or have a LOT of parental financial support. It compounds the issue of low pay and oversupply of cheap work. This can carry on for decades on the individual level, deflating wages in the field on a macro level.
How to make it in SF? You can't. Statistically if you threw 100,000 people out of airplanes without a parachute one might land in a recently plowed field just right, get up and walk off uninjured (it has happened). The rest of the 99,999? Not so much. A lot of people confuse existing there, drawing down savings, and going into debt as 'making it'. It isn't.
why do people torture themselves to live in sf? I don't get it. Nice city, but will you be able to even enjoy it if your whole life is about paying stupid high living expenses?
Quit looking at Salesforce, it's bad for your mental state.
don't come NYC is full. Live in nj or staten island I hear they need architects.
No too late because LES is no longer cool. All condos. Only small pockets of Brooklyn remain hip enough to propel one to move cross country. But those parts are full too. And the trains don't work anyway. It's all full. And uncool.
I will be the Rep if I can use the apartment. But I will remain anonymous. I accept bitcoins. Your clients may refer to be as nine. Or 007. That is also ok.
Update! Since so many of these posts often have no conclusion.
Initial offer was 30% increase, counter offer is 55% with justification(using actual costs, not some HR-generated cost of living adjustment).
so, no conclusion still...
Since so many of these posts often have no updates or conclusions*
just teasing, good luck on your negotiations!
Thank you!
Just had a friend move to SF to take a job with google X..... He was offered ~ 350k. So you know that's what your competing with. He can't find a house, has lost out on three offers now. Says he just doesn't have enough cash to compete. Fortunately they are paying his temporary housing until he can find a home to buy. So no vans.
paying is not how they become billionaires.
Or you can sleep in a van in my 'hood in Oakland - then someone will come by at 3am and "air condition" it with a Glok - which is what happened 2 nights ago - luckily no one was inside
Final Update!
Just signed the paperwork to the make the transfer happen for the springtime next year, after my current assignment ends. We settled on a 60% salary increase.
Merry Christmas!
I'm partial to Gene Kelly but pretty close.