I'm a low income student in my early 20's continuing my education into a bachelors. Due to outside circumstances I have never or won't be able for a long time to receive financial aid. I have been showering with pure cold water because my family cant even afford to replace a water heater. Even with my grades and record I could be going to Uni almost for very cheap.
I am under heavy personal mental stress everyday despite my family's happiness and congratulations from everyone.
I am weeks away from signing on a loan to continue into my bachelor's.
However, it will be 40k and a bachelors in design in a good state school; I will need to get a masters in order to get licensed hence more money later on. The school offers no additional aid since architecture is not as a priority as other fields.
My gut is telling me not to do it.
I know with the work I have now I can possibly get into cornell or IIT and be offered a substantial amount of assistance and graduate with a professional degree.
Am I being too safe? Should I be grateful for the opportunity? Or should I keep thinking on this and play my cards right? I hope I don't come across as arrogant, I would really like a perspective from some of the older established individuals here.
geezertect
Jul 22, 17 5:52 pm
It's hard to understand exactly what your situation is. If you are debating whether to go to a "good" state school via student loans for a non-professional degree, or going to an Ivy or near Ivy for a professional degree with less student debt, then the question seems like a no-brainer. Would the IIT or Cornell degree be after you finish up a the good state school? Maybe you can clarify.
In either case, architecture is generally not a terrific investment. If you are low income with no social or business connections, it is really not a terrific investment.
Venus.as.a.boy
Jul 22, 17 6:14 pm
I'm stuck in whether I should wait another year/cycle and reapply elsewhere for the b.arch. Meaning to put everything on hold at the state school and maybe get a better economic shot elsewhere.(I'm transferring from an associate's)
My parents tell me even though it seems like a heavy debt burden at first, they believe I will be able to pay it off and that it is necessary for me to move forward.
But 40k for a B.Design is nerveracking to me. With the masters at the state school I will maybe need another 60k on top of that and I would need to an additional 2+ years of study as opposed to a 3 year B.Arch.
Half of me feels like I'm taking a wrong turn and have accelerated out the apex. The other is siding with my peers and tells me I'm overreacting. That I should be glad I have the chance to study at a decent school.
geezertect
Jul 22, 17 7:41 pm
With all due respect to your parents, if they can't even afford to replace a dead hot water heater, it doesn't sound like they are experts in money management areas. Your are right to be nervous. A lot of recent grads are wishing they had looked before they leaped.
So, if I understand correctly, you are midway through undergrad and will have to take on 40k in debt to get B.Design, and then another 60k of debt for the professional masters at the "good" school that doesn't consider architecture a priority. How good can that program really be if the administration thinks so little of it? But, more importantly, if you transfer to IIT or such, how much debt will you incur for a professional degree then? It really comes down to what will be your situation at the end of either scenario. Take the cheaper alternative that leads to a professional degree. Stopping at the B.Design level won't get you a strong toehold into the profession.
Graduating with an architecture degree (even a professional one) with a 100k debt burden is a big gamble. If you were my kid, I would try to talk you out of it. Good luck with whatever decision you make.
Marc Miller
Jul 22, 17 8:04 pm
I'd:
1- Do some serious research. Cornell and IIT are not similar programs. What you want out of it matters as much (more really) than the label.
2- Shop for programs with funding opportunities for students with significant need. In some cases it may not appear until the second year, but if you can see a way to make the number work over the long run...
archinine
Jul 22, 17 11:31 pm
Don't waste the money on two degrees if you can avoid it. Many, myself included, wish they had avoided the double degree debt.
Transfer, wait another year, apply to more schools, whatever you have to do to avoid more crippling debt. My guess is your family hasn't done this sort of thing and anyone who has a generation prior has no idea what the current landscape is like in terms of the true lifelong cost of the debt.
Research other schools, UC and Rice have great undergrad professional degrees and offer funding. Consider the city the school is in, cooper union and Pratt are good but NYC is expensive and will cost you in loans. If you want a license stop paying for the b.design asap as it won't help. Find a professor who will give you a reference and move on unless you're going there for free already. See if anyone will hire you as an intern/assistant while you reapply to schools - but it sounds like any income you generate will be helpful to your situation. One or two years reapplying to programs costs you little vs 100k debt you'll be paying off for decades.
TED
Jul 23, 17 8:28 am
Agree - do a BArch professional with instate tuition so this may mean you need to resettle in another state. Then in the future you could do 1 year masters if you wish.
In my opinion, Most MArch's are just additional design so not proper Master awards. You are much better off doing a Masters that is not tied to professional qualifications and allows you to explore and dig deep into a subject of your interest which may be photography, film, digital, real estate, Urban design, Humanitarian etc.
geezertect
Jul 23, 17 10:11 am
Cheap B.Arch + MBA in related but not identical field. I like it.
randomised
Jul 23, 17 7:51 am
Try to avoid getting swamped in debt or you might end up just like your parents, forever out of cash and unable to provide for you and your possible future family. 40k for a degree that's not even considered a priority by the institution providing it is like flushing it down the toilet, especially if you need another expensive degree on top of it to get licensed. Go where you can get the most funding and the least amount of debt if any. Good luck.
archinine
Jul 23, 17 1:40 pm
++ to the b.arch and MBA. A master program that is actually worth the cost.
senjohnblutarsky
Jul 24, 17 12:16 pm
If it were me, I'd take a year off to work. Save the money, buy a water heater. Then go to a school with a professional degree. There is no reason for someone in your situation to assume the additional debt of a masters.
In the time it will have taken you to get a BA and Master's, you'll have worked a year to pay off part of your tuition, and have assumed less debt.
shellarchitect
Jul 24, 17 12:28 pm
i'm very curious as to why you might not be eligible for financial aid...
Otherwise, go for the cheapest NAAB degree. I've been told that sometimes the most expensive schools can be very generous to those from very low income families, worth looking into.
taking a year off can be very good if used productively. For example a year working for a GC or even on a framing crew is great exp.
THREAD S
Jul 24, 17 11:41 pm
what state are you in?
bowling_ball
Jul 25, 17 2:08 am
I come from a similar situation. Working class family with no money to help out with tuition, and terrible advice about how to go about one of the biggest decisions you'll ever make.
I can't make sense of your exact details (sorry, very sleep deprived at the moment) but what I can tell you is, to avoid as much debt, as much as possible. It will hamper your future more than you can ever imagine.
Take a year or two off, then look into the cheapest accredited degree programs. Once you graduate and get your first job, nobody will care about what school you went to.
You have lots of time, but use it wisely. And don't shackle yourself with needless student debt. Trust me, I graduated with plenty and I feel that pain every day. I would have done things differently if I'd had the choice.
Beepbeep
Jul 25, 17 10:55 am
I agree apply to Cornell for the B.arch - I believe RPI and Syracuse also has a B.arch if you are in the NY area with good scholarships, Just get the single B.arch do not waste the time and money on an M.arch- if you want one later they will still take your money.
Once you finish your AS in architecture and apply, find an internship near where you live in architecture or construction. Don't look at it as taking a year off- just continuing,waiting for your B.arch spot.
Just make sure you go back it is really easy to get sucked back into the working class struggles. Many of they people closest to you offer you the worst advice ever- maybe perhaps find a mentor such as a professor you were close to to seek advise portfolio help etc.
accesskb
Jul 25, 17 12:33 pm
Financially, do some research regarding grants/scholarships/bursaries etc. Universities have plenty of money to give away to students in need each semester and the amount is based on their needs. You're often required to write a letter explaining your situation for them to decide how much to offer you. These funds are often donated and have been put aside specifically to help students with tuition/expenses/food etc. I know I've received $5000+ each semester. There are also university programs to help you like working a few hours in the library each day or similar university environment to help you earn some money to offset costs.
l3wis
Jul 25, 17 2:23 pm
i would look into how transferable your current credits are into other undergraduate programs and explore alternative degrees like engineering if you have a responsibility to support your family. you wont make much at all with a 4 year non professional degree and you'll be expected to work long hours at many firms.
otherwise I would definitely select more affordable schools over more expensive ones. if you work hard you will produce good work regardless of where you're at. you will stand out even more at the affordable school then you would at the ivy and get more scholarship money and awards.
if you have an entrepreneurial temperament you could try freelancing in some capacity to make up for the reduced money.
Venus.as.a.boy
Jul 26, 17 1:08 am
Thank all of you kind souls who've given input on this.
I've realized Ive come to a divergent path that many students in this field reach at some point.
Theoretical enjoyment and heavy experimentation vs. Thinking ahead in terms of employability and valuable skills/specializations.
Its sunk into me that I need to focus on my economic safety as a priority and that me and my family are not in a position for me to overindulge.
I will re-work with your advice. Thank you for your input.
bowling_ball
Jul 26, 17 2:53 am
It's really worth taking the time to do your homework about the various programs and available financial assistance. You could save tens of thousands of dollars, and that's not an exaggeration. In the meantime, go get a job on a construction crew. That experience will not only help you better understand how buildings go together (you'll have a leg up on your competition) but believe it or not many schools like seeing this experience from prospective arch students. You seem like a smart kid in a new situation. You'll be fine if you do your homework, make a plan, and stick to it.
THREAD S
Jul 28, 17 1:07 pm
I recommend going to community college (work with a counselor to determine what courses transfer), work part time, apply for additional scholarships, live at home for a couple years then transfer into a public university with advanced standing. Based on your economic background, your tuition would be as low as 600-1000 dollars depending on your district.
home_alone
Jul 30, 17 6:15 pm
Also don't forget a lot of states including NY offer paths to licensure without a B. Arch.
Speaking of NY, CUNY and SUNY are an amazing value. You could move here and work for a few years to save money and establish residency perhaps.
Any public institution in a large city will have faculty bouncing around the different programs. For example Cooper, CUNY, Pratt, Parsons, Columbia share many professors and critics. The main difference is access to well connected or wealthy social circle..
corbismyhomeboy
Jul 31, 17 1:59 pm
To add on to home_alone's comment, I'm doing the license with only a BSArch in NYS, and I'm glad it exists. Although I wouldn't necessarily suggest it for those who have the option of going for a BArch in lieu of the BSArch.
Also, I've heard that NYS has passed a 'free tuition' for residents. The catch is that you have to live here after graduation for as many years as your degree took to complete. Not sure when that will start or where, but may be worth looking into to see if the details work out for your particular situation.
mantaray
Jul 31, 17 9:48 am
Ah, finally a school application thread in which I actually have relevant experience!
OP, I was in a similar boat -- maybe not as poor as you but working class family with few college grads and we had no family money available for college. I took time to figure out the cheapest possible route to become a licensed architect. For me, this the B.Arch -- which is usually the fastest and therefore often the cheapest route to licensure. (In my case, I would have looooved to get a Masters b/c I wanted to teach as well as design, but we just didn't have the money for 2 degrees. In the end, I was able to teach for awhile anyway - so just in case you're interested in that option, you should know that you can be hired for an adjunct professorship without a Masters.)
If you can possibly get in-state tuition for a B.Arch, either in your current state or by moving to one and working there for a year or so, that will be your cheapest option. B.Arch programs are EXTREMELY rigorous and difficult, across the board. I can't think of one that doesn't give a good education, including state options. They do vary in focus somewhat but the NAAB accreditation requirements are so stringent that they all offer a comprehensive and rigorous course of study. (Note: That said, if you are all unsure about becoming an architect, DO NOT enter a B.Arch program. You will be miserable and once you drop out you will owe debt for degree coursework that doesn't always translate well to a parallel degree (depending on which school you're at). I knew I would love being an architect, and I do, so for me it was the right option.)
Two more things that haven't been covered above:
- Because the B.Arch gets you out into the workplace faster, you get to start earning income earlier which also helps it be a cheaper degree than B+M. So you not only have fewer loans, you also have earlier earning power. This also points to a less heralded positive aspect of the B.Arch -- By the time I was 30, I had racked up years more experience in the field than my peers just coming out of various grad programs, and so I've been able to rise higher faster in the profession than the folks with Masters. Combine that with less debt and overall you end up with a much better financial situation coming from the B.Arch.
- Although in-state B.Arch programs will COST the least from a simple tuition fee basis, sometimes private programs offer more in financial aid. You've made some statements about not being eligible for traditional financial aid which makes me think you may want to pit an in-state B.Arch program against a few private school progams just to see what they'll offer you. You never know. Take the time to apply to a as many as you can afford application fees for. If you can't afford application fees, reach out to some teachers or mentors in your life who have a heart for you and your career path. You might find someone willing to sponsor you the cost of an application if you need it.
- For some hard numbers, which I think can be helpful, I graduated about 15 years ago with a private B.Arch and $63k in debt. I have whittled that down to about $16k remaining, and have worked full time non-stop since graduation, sometimes with a 2nd job (teaching or moonlighting) on top of full-time architecture. I am now a senior architect in my firm, have real estate investments and a family and can pay all my bills each month and have savings. I still have about 15 years scheduled to remain on my student loans. So that's the positive. The negative is that I was not able to pursue certain options because of the albatross of debt around my neck. For example: I had to turn down an offer to work abroad because the pay was not high enough to cover the cost of my student loans. The same happens with things like the Peace Corps or working for non-profit design centers or for a low-wage high design shop in NYC for example-- you are limited in the kinds of jobs you can take b/c you need to make a monthly salary high enough to cover your loan payments. So: something to think about. This is why people call debt "crippling" -- it literally prevents you from pursuing opportunities that you will see your other, richer, friends being free to pursue.
mantaray
Jul 31, 17 9:52 am
That last comment ended on a downer note but I meant to show that while debt can be crippling, it's also perfectly possible to carry student loan debt and live a full and rewarding life. Debt is a necessary evil in this world so I would try to minimize it but don't be SO freaked out that you don't take the risk on the degree. Architecture doesn't pay well but it DOES pay enough to live a normal professional life and pay off a reasonable amount of debt.
shellarchitect
Jul 31, 17 12:43 pm
I agree with mantaray. There is a lot of complaints about pay for architects, and it really does suck for new grad.
However, it won't be long before you are making a lot more than most people in the US. Just keep the debt obligation down.
I have a pretty elaborate spreadsheet to track my student loan debt. In the past 4 years I've paid made almost 80k in payments and have reduce my debt from 113k to 52k.
Since about half that amount is at 4% or lower interest rates, I'm very close to not worrying at all about student loans. Obviously I'm very proud of this as it hasn't been easy.
If you just want to make money there are money better options, but I'm pretty happy with the profession so far.
archinine
Jul 31, 17 7:20 pm
Wow shell I just got hope for the first time ever that I may not be indebted till death. Did you take David's advice and shack up with a lawyer or was this all personal income from architectural work? Congrats either way.
shellarchitect
Jul 31, 17 9:27 pm
Good! A little bit of hope is what I was going for.
I got married to a nurse ( great job security, extra income) but also had 2 kids, so probably a wash either way.
We're no one's definition of well off, but we make enough that my wife can be part time and still get by alright.
mantaray
Jul 31, 17 10:42 pm
That's fairly astounding, shell. Great job.
I think I can probably venture to say that that's not typical, however. I suspect Shell may be on the extreme end of financial success, for the architectural world. Most folks I know seem to have graduated with 40-80k debt and only the low end of those are paying it off just about 15 years out of school. Shell, may I ask what that translates to in terms of how much per month you have been throwing towards those loans? Just curious -- may be helpful for OP to know what the debt load translates to in terms of actual monthly costs.
Mine are financed at around 3-4% as well and my debt load, for this first 15 years, has been roughly $550/mo. That was pretty constricting especially starting out, in the low 40k salary for the first chunk of years (~$2500/mo take home pay). Just paid off some of the loans and now my payment has finally dropped to a much more manageable $200/mo, for the next 15 years.
archinine
Jul 31, 17 11:07 pm
Thanks for the explanation shell. Curious if you took a similar approach to mantaray and did the more corporate/practical sort of route.
I've been on this path and so far, with my also elaborate spreadsheets and financially stable soon to be wife, I think the math just might work.
Hearing that you in fact are both in solid middle class professions only brings me more hope in this pursuit.
Per Mantaray's question to shell, which may be helpful to OP and others:
With a combo of private and mostly public loans totalling 100k (two degrees both private with some decent scholarships, plenty of accrued interest included in total) I'm at a little over $600/month. I couldn't swing this very comfortably if I weren't sharing living expenses. But as we are, we have a decent lifestyle while remaining prudent. Plans are to refinance once FICO is >750. 11 points away for an expected 4% drop in interest while electively maintaining the $600 per. Fingers crossed.
Still feel naive for getting two degrees, but like OP, was pressured and didn't understand the final costs. I can only pass on info while doing my best to resolve this situation. Wishing I'd been given or properly researched such advice makes no difference.
mantaray
Aug 1, 17 12:51 am
Sounds like you'll be in good shape archinine. Don't worry about "what might have been." ;-)
shellarchitect
Aug 1, 17 11:56 am
will try to help as much as possible, for background I have an BS Arch w/ 30k of debt (had a much of scholarships, but no help from family) worked for about 5 years than got an M Arch, 60k of debt. My wife had about 20k from her nursing degree as well. I've got about 10 years of exp. licensed a little over a year ago. I was also laid off for a year and a half while getting the M. Arch and shortly after (2010ish)
My graduate loan is at 6.8% and after 5 years is down to about 24k. I have bounced around with different repayment options to keep the required payment as low as possible. The others are all at 4% or below and I'm not too worried about them. Currently we pay $150 for the grad. loan and $370 for the rest.
We periodically make large payments on the grad loan. For example about a 2 weeks ago I paid 4k. Two of the undergrad loans have a total of $1,400 remaining. I could pay those off now and free up $110 a month, but I'd rather continue putting everything we've got into the 6.8% loan. These loans will be automatically paid off in about a year anyway.
My pay was pretty stagnant at around 50k for my first 8ish years of working. I've moved around a bunch recently, (4 firms in 4 years) with paid time over 40 hr. will probably end up making 75-80k this year.
Wife would be at 80k if she was full time, we get all health ins. through her work.
We've been putting in the minimum to get the full 401k match, no real estate investments or anything cool yet. That's something I really wish I'd done but the debt has really restricted our cash flow until somewhat recently.
I recently finished our basement to allow my mom to stay down there and watch our 1 year old. That project cost about 10k and will save almost that much a year in daycare.
The 5 year old is starting public school this fall. My wife is cutting back even more around the same time, so that's a wash.
2 degrees at private schools is not the ideal way to go, it helped that I had undergrad academic and athletic scholarships, but my parents didn't help at all and they made too much for me to qualify for any need based grants or loans.
archinine
Aug 1, 17 6:14 pm
Thanks for the breakdown shell - sounds like you're through the worst of it. Congrats on your progress so far.
And thanks to mantaray for the positivity.
Hopefully the next wave will benefit from our transparency
I'm a low income student in my early 20's continuing my education into a bachelors. Due to outside circumstances I have never or won't be able for a long time to receive financial aid. I have been showering with pure cold water because my family cant even afford to replace a water heater. Even with my grades and record I could be going to Uni almost for very cheap.
I am under heavy personal mental stress everyday despite my family's happiness and congratulations from everyone.
I am weeks away from signing on a loan to continue into my bachelor's.
However, it will be 40k and a bachelors in design in a good state school; I will need to get a masters in order to get licensed hence more money later on. The school offers no additional aid since architecture is not as a priority as other fields.
My gut is telling me not to do it.
I know with the work I have now I can possibly get into cornell or IIT and be offered a substantial amount of assistance and graduate with a professional degree.
Am I being too safe? Should I be grateful for the opportunity? Or should I keep thinking on this and play my cards right? I hope I don't come across as arrogant, I would really like a perspective from some of the older established individuals here.
It's hard to understand exactly what your situation is. If you are debating whether to go to a "good" state school via student loans for a non-professional degree, or going to an Ivy or near Ivy for a professional degree with less student debt, then the question seems like a no-brainer. Would the IIT or Cornell degree be after you finish up a the good state school? Maybe you can clarify.
In either case, architecture is generally not a terrific investment. If you are low income with no social or business connections, it is really not a terrific investment.
I'm stuck in whether I should wait another year/cycle and reapply elsewhere for the b.arch. Meaning to put everything on hold at the state school and maybe get a better economic shot elsewhere.(I'm transferring from an associate's)
My parents tell me even though it seems like a heavy debt burden at first, they believe I will be able to pay it off and that it is necessary for me to move forward.
But 40k for a B.Design is nerveracking to me. With the masters at the state school I will maybe need another 60k on top of that and I would need to an additional 2+ years of study as opposed to a 3 year B.Arch.
Half of me feels like I'm taking a wrong turn and have accelerated out the apex. The other is siding with my peers and tells me I'm overreacting. That I should be glad I have the chance to study at a decent school.
With all due respect to your parents, if they can't even afford to replace a dead hot water heater, it doesn't sound like they are experts in money management areas. Your are right to be nervous. A lot of recent grads are wishing they had looked before they leaped.
So, if I understand correctly, you are midway through undergrad and will have to take on 40k in debt to get B.Design, and then another 60k of debt for the professional masters at the "good" school that doesn't consider architecture a priority. How good can that program really be if the administration thinks so little of it? But, more importantly, if you transfer to IIT or such, how much debt will you incur for a professional degree then? It really comes down to what will be your situation at the end of either scenario. Take the cheaper alternative that leads to a professional degree. Stopping at the B.Design level won't get you a strong toehold into the profession.
Graduating with an architecture degree (even a professional one) with a 100k debt burden is a big gamble. If you were my kid, I would try to talk you out of it. Good luck with whatever decision you make.
I'd:
1- Do some serious research. Cornell and IIT are not similar programs. What you want out of it matters as much (more really) than the label.
2- Shop for programs with funding opportunities for students with significant need. In some cases it may not appear until the second year, but if you can see a way to make the number work over the long run...
Don't waste the money on two degrees if you can avoid it. Many, myself included, wish they had avoided the double degree debt.
Transfer, wait another year, apply to more schools, whatever you have to do to avoid more crippling debt. My guess is your family hasn't done this sort of thing and anyone who has a generation prior has no idea what the current landscape is like in terms of the true lifelong cost of the debt.
Research other schools, UC and Rice have great undergrad professional degrees and offer funding. Consider the city the school is in, cooper union and Pratt are good but NYC is expensive and will cost you in loans. If you want a license stop paying for the b.design asap as it won't help. Find a professor who will give you a reference and move on unless you're going there for free already. See if anyone will hire you as an intern/assistant while you reapply to schools - but it sounds like any income you generate will be helpful to your situation. One or two years reapplying to programs costs you little vs 100k debt you'll be paying off for decades.
Agree - do a BArch professional with instate tuition so this may mean you need to resettle in another state. Then in the future you could do 1 year masters if you wish.
In my opinion, Most MArch's are just additional design so not proper Master awards. You are much better off doing a Masters that is not tied to professional qualifications and allows you to explore and dig deep into a subject of your interest which may be photography, film, digital, real estate, Urban design, Humanitarian etc.
Cheap B.Arch + MBA in related but not identical field. I like it.
Try to avoid getting swamped in debt or you might end up just like your parents, forever out of cash and unable to provide for you and your possible future family. 40k for a degree that's not even considered a priority by the institution providing it is like flushing it down the toilet, especially if you need another expensive degree on top of it to get licensed. Go where you can get the most funding and the least amount of debt if any. Good luck.
++ to the b.arch and MBA. A master program that is actually worth the cost.
If it were me, I'd take a year off to work. Save the money, buy a water heater. Then go to a school with a professional degree. There is no reason for someone in your situation to assume the additional debt of a masters.
In the time it will have taken you to get a BA and Master's, you'll have worked a year to pay off part of your tuition, and have assumed less debt.
i'm very curious as to why you might not be eligible for financial aid...
Otherwise, go for the cheapest NAAB degree. I've been told that sometimes the most expensive schools can be very generous to those from very low income families, worth looking into.
taking a year off can be very good if used productively. For example a year working for a GC or even on a framing crew is great exp.
what state are you in?
I come from a similar situation. Working class family with no money to help out with tuition, and terrible advice about how to go about one of the biggest decisions you'll ever make.
I can't make sense of your exact details (sorry, very sleep deprived at the moment) but what I can tell you is, to avoid as much debt, as much as possible. It will hamper your future more than you can ever imagine.
Take a year or two off, then look into the cheapest accredited degree programs. Once you graduate and get your first job, nobody will care about what school you went to.
You have lots of time, but use it wisely. And don't shackle yourself with needless student debt. Trust me, I graduated with plenty and I feel that pain every day. I would have done things differently if I'd had the choice.
I agree apply to Cornell for the B.arch - I believe RPI and Syracuse also has a B.arch if you are in the NY area with good scholarships, Just get the single B.arch do not waste the time and money on an M.arch- if you want one later they will still take your money.
Once you finish your AS in architecture and apply, find an internship near where you live in architecture or construction. Don't look at it as taking a year off- just continuing,waiting for your B.arch spot.
Just make sure you go back it is really easy to get sucked back into the working class struggles. Many of they people closest to you offer you the worst advice ever- maybe perhaps find a mentor such as a professor you were close to to seek advise portfolio help etc.
Financially, do some research regarding grants/scholarships/bursaries etc. Universities have plenty of money to give away to students in need each semester and the amount is based on their needs. You're often required to write a letter explaining your situation for them to decide how much to offer you. These funds are often donated and have been put aside specifically to help students with tuition/expenses/food etc. I know I've received $5000+ each semester. There are also university programs to help you like working a few hours in the library each day or similar university environment to help you earn some money to offset costs.
i would look into how transferable your current credits are into other undergraduate programs and explore alternative degrees like engineering if you have a responsibility to support your family. you wont make much at all with a 4 year non professional degree and you'll be expected to work long hours at many firms.
otherwise I would definitely select more affordable schools over more expensive ones. if you work hard you will produce good work regardless of where you're at. you will stand out even more at the affordable school then you would at the ivy and get more scholarship money and awards.
if you have an entrepreneurial temperament you could try freelancing in some capacity to make up for the reduced money.
Thank all of you kind souls who've given input on this.
I've realized Ive come to a divergent path that many students in this field reach at some point.
Theoretical enjoyment and heavy experimentation vs. Thinking ahead in terms of employability and valuable skills/specializations.
Its sunk into me that I need to focus on my economic safety as a priority and that me and my family are not in a position for me to overindulge.
I will re-work with your advice. Thank you for your input.
It's really worth taking the time to do your homework about the various programs and available financial assistance. You could save tens of thousands of dollars, and that's not an exaggeration. In the meantime, go get a job on a construction crew. That experience will not only help you better understand how buildings go together (you'll have a leg up on your competition) but believe it or not many schools like seeing this experience from prospective arch students. You seem like a smart kid in a new situation. You'll be fine if you do your homework, make a plan, and stick to it.
I recommend going to community college (work with a counselor to determine what courses transfer), work part time, apply for additional scholarships, live at home for a couple years then transfer into a public university with advanced standing. Based on your economic background, your tuition would be as low as 600-1000 dollars depending on your district.
Also don't forget a lot of states including NY offer paths to licensure without a B. Arch.
Speaking of NY, CUNY and SUNY are an amazing value. You could move here and work for a few years to save money and establish residency perhaps.
Any public institution in a large city will have faculty bouncing around the different programs. For example Cooper, CUNY, Pratt, Parsons, Columbia share many professors and critics. The main difference is access to well connected or wealthy social circle..
To add on to home_alone's comment, I'm doing the license with only a BSArch in NYS, and I'm glad it exists. Although I wouldn't necessarily suggest it for those who have the option of going for a BArch in lieu of the BSArch.
Also, I've heard that NYS has passed a 'free tuition' for residents. The catch is that you have to live here after graduation for as many years as your degree took to complete. Not sure when that will start or where, but may be worth looking into to see if the details work out for your particular situation.
Ah, finally a school application thread in which I actually have relevant experience!
OP, I was in a similar boat -- maybe not as poor as you but working class family with few college grads and we had no family money available for college. I took time to figure out the cheapest possible route to become a licensed architect. For me, this the B.Arch -- which is usually the fastest and therefore often the cheapest route to licensure. (In my case, I would have looooved to get a Masters b/c I wanted to teach as well as design, but we just didn't have the money for 2 degrees. In the end, I was able to teach for awhile anyway - so just in case you're interested in that option, you should know that you can be hired for an adjunct professorship without a Masters.)
If you can possibly get in-state tuition for a B.Arch, either in your current state or by moving to one and working there for a year or so, that will be your cheapest option. B.Arch programs are EXTREMELY rigorous and difficult, across the board. I can't think of one that doesn't give a good education, including state options. They do vary in focus somewhat but the NAAB accreditation requirements are so stringent that they all offer a comprehensive and rigorous course of study. (Note: That said, if you are all unsure about becoming an architect, DO NOT enter a B.Arch program. You will be miserable and once you drop out you will owe debt for degree coursework that doesn't always translate well to a parallel degree (depending on which school you're at). I knew I would love being an architect, and I do, so for me it was the right option.)
Two more things that haven't been covered above:
- Because the B.Arch gets you out into the workplace faster, you get to start earning income earlier which also helps it be a cheaper degree than B+M. So you not only have fewer loans, you also have earlier earning power. This also points to a less heralded positive aspect of the B.Arch -- By the time I was 30, I had racked up years more experience in the field than my peers just coming out of various grad programs, and so I've been able to rise higher faster in the profession than the folks with Masters. Combine that with less debt and overall you end up with a much better financial situation coming from the B.Arch.
- Although in-state B.Arch programs will COST the least from a simple tuition fee basis, sometimes private programs offer more in financial aid. You've made some statements about not being eligible for traditional financial aid which makes me think you may want to pit an in-state B.Arch program against a few private school progams just to see what they'll offer you. You never know. Take the time to apply to a as many as you can afford application fees for. If you can't afford application fees, reach out to some teachers or mentors in your life who have a heart for you and your career path. You might find someone willing to sponsor you the cost of an application if you need it.
- For some hard numbers, which I think can be helpful, I graduated about 15 years ago with a private B.Arch and $63k in debt. I have whittled that down to about $16k remaining, and have worked full time non-stop since graduation, sometimes with a 2nd job (teaching or moonlighting) on top of full-time architecture. I am now a senior architect in my firm, have real estate investments and a family and can pay all my bills each month and have savings. I still have about 15 years scheduled to remain on my student loans. So that's the positive. The negative is that I was not able to pursue certain options because of the albatross of debt around my neck. For example: I had to turn down an offer to work abroad because the pay was not high enough to cover the cost of my student loans. The same happens with things like the Peace Corps or working for non-profit design centers or for a low-wage high design shop in NYC for example-- you are limited in the kinds of jobs you can take b/c you need to make a monthly salary high enough to cover your loan payments. So: something to think about. This is why people call debt "crippling" -- it literally prevents you from pursuing opportunities that you will see your other, richer, friends being free to pursue.
That last comment ended on a downer note but I meant to show that while debt can be crippling, it's also perfectly possible to carry student loan debt and live a full and rewarding life. Debt is a necessary evil in this world so I would try to minimize it but don't be SO freaked out that you don't take the risk on the degree. Architecture doesn't pay well but it DOES pay enough to live a normal professional life and pay off a reasonable amount of debt.
I agree with mantaray. There is a lot of complaints about pay for architects, and it really does suck for new grad.
However, it won't be long before you are making a lot more than most people in the US. Just keep the debt obligation down.
I have a pretty elaborate spreadsheet to track my student loan debt. In the past 4 years I've paid made almost 80k in payments and have reduce my debt from 113k to 52k.
Since about half that amount is at 4% or lower interest rates, I'm very close to not worrying at all about student loans. Obviously I'm very proud of this as it hasn't been easy.
If you just want to make money there are money better options, but I'm pretty happy with the profession so far.
Wow shell I just got hope for the first time ever that I may not be indebted till death. Did you take David's advice and shack up with a lawyer or was this all personal income from architectural work? Congrats either way.
Good! A little bit of hope is what I was going for.
I got married to a nurse ( great job security, extra income) but also had 2 kids, so probably a wash either way.
We're no one's definition of well off, but we make enough that my wife can be part time and still get by alright.
That's fairly astounding, shell. Great job.
I think I can probably venture to say that that's not typical, however. I suspect Shell may be on the extreme end of financial success, for the architectural world. Most folks I know seem to have graduated with 40-80k debt and only the low end of those are paying it off just about 15 years out of school. Shell, may I ask what that translates to in terms of how much per month you have been throwing towards those loans? Just curious -- may be helpful for OP to know what the debt load translates to in terms of actual monthly costs.
Mine are financed at around 3-4% as well and my debt load, for this first 15 years, has been roughly $550/mo. That was pretty constricting especially starting out, in the low 40k salary for the first chunk of years (~$2500/mo take home pay). Just paid off some of the loans and now my payment has finally dropped to a much more manageable $200/mo, for the next 15 years.
Thanks for the explanation shell. Curious if you took a similar approach to mantaray and did the more corporate/practical sort of route.
I've been on this path and so far, with my also elaborate spreadsheets and financially stable soon to be wife, I think the math just might work.
Hearing that you in fact are both in solid middle class professions only brings me more hope in this pursuit.
Per Mantaray's question to shell, which may be helpful to OP and others:
With a combo of private and mostly public loans totalling 100k (two degrees both private with some decent scholarships, plenty of accrued interest included in total) I'm at a little over $600/month. I couldn't swing this very comfortably if I weren't sharing living expenses. But as we are, we have a decent lifestyle while remaining prudent. Plans are to refinance once FICO is >750. 11 points away for an expected 4% drop in interest while electively maintaining the $600 per. Fingers crossed.
Still feel naive for getting two degrees, but like OP, was pressured and didn't understand the final costs. I can only pass on info while doing my best to resolve this situation. Wishing I'd been given or properly researched such advice makes no difference.
Sounds like you'll be in good shape archinine. Don't worry about "what might have been." ;-)
will try to help as much as possible, for background I have an BS Arch w/ 30k of debt (had a much of scholarships, but no help from family) worked for about 5 years than got an M Arch, 60k of debt. My wife had about 20k from her nursing degree as well. I've got about 10 years of exp. licensed a little over a year ago. I was also laid off for a year and a half while getting the M. Arch and shortly after (2010ish)
My graduate loan is at 6.8% and after 5 years is down to about 24k. I have bounced around with different repayment options to keep the required payment as low as possible. The others are all at 4% or below and I'm not too worried about them. Currently we pay $150 for the grad. loan and $370 for the rest.
We periodically make large payments on the grad loan. For example about a 2 weeks ago I paid 4k. Two of the undergrad loans have a total of $1,400 remaining. I could pay those off now and free up $110 a month, but I'd rather continue putting everything we've got into the 6.8% loan. These loans will be automatically paid off in about a year anyway.
My pay was pretty stagnant at around 50k for my first 8ish years of working. I've moved around a bunch recently, (4 firms in 4 years) with paid time over 40 hr. will probably end up making 75-80k this year.
Wife would be at 80k if she was full time, we get all health ins. through her work.
We've been putting in the minimum to get the full 401k match, no real estate investments or anything cool yet. That's something I really wish I'd done but the debt has really restricted our cash flow until somewhat recently.
I recently finished our basement to allow my mom to stay down there and watch our 1 year old. That project cost about 10k and will save almost that much a year in daycare.
The 5 year old is starting public school this fall. My wife is cutting back even more around the same time, so that's a wash.
2 degrees at private schools is not the ideal way to go, it helped that I had undergrad academic and athletic scholarships, but my parents didn't help at all and they made too much for me to qualify for any need based grants or loans.
Thanks for the breakdown shell - sounds like you're through the worst of it. Congrats on your progress so far.
And thanks to mantaray for the positivity.
Hopefully the next wave will benefit from our transparency