I was offered a job a couple days ago and have been negotiating salary. I told the interviewer that AIA suggests 75k as the average for a project architect with 8-10 years of experience and that I expect at least that.
Interviewer replied that that amount is heavily influenced by large firms that hire and fire as work comes and goes. I personally believe that I should expect only incremental raises after this and that I am really looking for the hire end of the range, 80kish.
I haven't been able to find good info on salaies for this experience level. Can anyone chime in?
Thanks
Driko
Apr 19, 17 10:55 am
Dont take the job. Let these firms die because they are giving the architecture profession a bad name. My friends who are graduating next month with maybe a 2 summers worth of internship experience landing jobs at 60k. YOU HAVE 8 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE?!?!?! and they are telling you that time of experience is only worth 15k????? what are they paying their new grads?, dont devalue your self and dont let them slap you around and tell you well the "large firms" are paying more because because because..... Look at small tech companies, they still stay competitive with google and faceboook paying their engineers just as much, they just lack the technology and the sweet perks.
Quentin P
Apr 19, 17 12:23 pm
Are you in NYC? I don't know anyone who came out of M.Arch with experience making 60k. Most were 45-55k.
Driko
Apr 19, 17 12:24 pm
chicago
s=r*(theta)
Apr 19, 17 1:09 pm
Im from chicago as well, never new anyone when I was there making 60k out of school with basically no experience; agree most were making 40-50k
Driko
Apr 20, 17 12:06 pm
i didnt continue with gradschool but my friends at UIUC who did for last years grads and this years grads are making about 60k average.
Driko
Apr 19, 17 12:24 pm
null
quizzical
Apr 19, 17 12:41 pm
shellarchitect: I've been retired for a while, so I haven't had the need to review the AIA's Compensation Survey for a few years. However, when I was involved in designing and administering past surveys we always collected and presented data that provided compensation information that was aggregated by firm size and location.
Perhaps you have only seen a summary of the latest survey data - often available through the media. If you have not reviewed the full AIA survey, I recommend that you find a copy, frequently available at your local AIA office.
While there are a number of different organizations that attempt to collect and distribute compensation data concerning our industry, the AIA survey is, by far, the most detailed, objective and reliable indicator of actual pay levels.
Good luck
shellarchitect
Apr 20, 17 9:31 am
Thanks, I requested a copy from my local aia, will hopefully see it today
l3wis
Apr 19, 17 1:45 pm
those median salaray ranges are broken down by firm size somewhere i think.
mtdew
Apr 19, 17 2:10 pm
It all depends on how your talents correlates with the need of that particular office. Just keep looking and see what else is out there. At least you have one job offer for now.
Superfluous Squirrel
Apr 19, 17 2:48 pm
Glassdoor is a good resource for salary research. Even if you can't see what people are making at that specific firm, you can get a good idea of what similar firms in the area pay.
l3wis is right, the AIA survey is sorted into sub-categories, including by firm size.
Your potential employer is full of it.
archi_dude
Apr 20, 17 1:26 pm
And do not, Do not! Let them try and use the "well if you just care about money" bull. You have a high level degree in your industry, are licensed and have been working in your targeted industry for 8 years. Trying to negotiate a salary in your mid-career in the 70k-80k range in no way makes you a shallow poor steward of architecture that only cares about the money.
Wilma Buttfit
Apr 20, 17 2:01 pm
I'm sure there are other options for them. Tell them they can hire someone with less experience if that's all they can afford. Then they can save money!
proto
Apr 20, 17 3:13 pm
^^^ good parry...at first it seems passive aggressive, but it directly addresses their issue and puts your experience on the front burner as the most important criteria under discussion, removing money from the primary conversation
shellarchitect
Apr 21, 17 8:27 am
i haven't really decided what I want to do, I did ask for more and was told that they are at their limit. They do pay overtime, and have been working anywhere from 44-48 hour weeks, which would make the total salary anywhere from 77k to 84k.
Of coarse I'm not really sure that I want to be working that much either!
archietechie
Apr 21, 17 8:45 am
This may piss some millenials off but overtimes should pretty much be only for the juniors who need the time to learn the ropes.
bowling_ball
Apr 21, 17 8:48 am
Look, you should probably be more in the $100k (+/-10k) range with 8-10 years experience, assuming half of that is project management and not drafting.
l3wis
Apr 21, 17 8:58 am
what's the op region?
shellarchitect
Apr 21, 17 9:29 am
I'm in metro detroit - no one around here (that I know of) is drawing a 100k salary short of principles or senior PM's.
I agree about the salary vs. OT. I should clarify that the pay straight time after 40 hours. So on a 44 hour week I'd get an extra $135 before taxes.
The only places that do this are ones that require a lot of OT.
44 hours isn't bad, I probably do that as it is. 48 starts to get old real fast though since you almost have to come in on a weekend to hit that number.
bowling_ball
Apr 21, 17 10:34 am
I still don't quite understand why you don't know your value. You've got 8 or 10 years experience and I'm assuming you're currently working. I know it can be a complex, subjective calculation, but surely you know if $75k is in the ballpark based on your presumed role.
shellarchitect
Apr 21, 17 1:42 pm
i believe
shellarchitect
Apr 21, 17 2:05 pm
not sure what happened up there... I think 75-80 is about right for me, just looking for more concrete evidence of that
shellarchitect
Sep 28, 17 12:39 pm
ran into an old co-worker last week who apparently passed my name on to a corp. recruiter at his firm. I wasn't super interested in the job, but told the recruiter i'd never turn down the chance to talk to someone. Anyway, he asked what it would take for me to leave, I said 85k would prob. do it. HR guys says "no problem."
All I can think now is why didn't I go higher!!!!
making 75k now
wurdan freo
Sep 28, 17 1:02 pm
In theory... that's why you make them give you a number first...
shellarchitect
Sep 28, 17 1:19 pm
I should know better by now
thatsthat
Sep 28, 17 2:10 pm
What's the reaction to low salary no raises, with promised job security during recessions, but extensive bonuses every 3 or 4 months on good years? And by extensive bonus, I mean, once you add the bonus into the low salary, you're maybe a few grand under national average. I've been led to believe this is becoming more common practice...
geezertect
Sep 28, 17 7:47 pm
The promised job security and periodic bonuses are just that, Promises. The only thing you can count on is the paycheck in your hand. If promised bonuses only bring you to the low end of the salary range, then that firm is a poor payer and I would need some other good reason to work there.
I was offered a job a couple days ago and have been negotiating salary. I told the interviewer that AIA suggests 75k as the average for a project architect with 8-10 years of experience and that I expect at least that.
Interviewer replied that that amount is heavily influenced by large firms that hire and fire as work comes and goes. I personally believe that I should expect only incremental raises after this and that I am really looking for the hire end of the range, 80kish.
I haven't been able to find good info on salaies for this experience level. Can anyone chime in?
Thanks
Dont take the job. Let these firms die because they are giving the architecture profession a bad name. My friends who are graduating next month with maybe a 2 summers worth of internship experience landing jobs at 60k. YOU HAVE 8 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE?!?!?! and they are telling you that time of experience is only worth 15k????? what are they paying their new grads?, dont devalue your self and dont let them slap you around and tell you well the "large firms" are paying more because because because..... Look at small tech companies, they still stay competitive with google and faceboook paying their engineers just as much, they just lack the technology and the sweet perks.
Are you in NYC? I don't know anyone who came out of M.Arch with experience making 60k. Most were 45-55k.
chicago
Im from chicago as well, never new anyone when I was there making 60k out of school with basically no experience; agree most were making 40-50k
i didnt continue with gradschool but my friends at UIUC who did for last years grads and this years grads are making about 60k average.
null
shellarchitect: I've been retired for a while, so I haven't had the need to review the AIA's Compensation Survey for a few years. However, when I was involved in designing and administering past surveys we always collected and presented data that provided compensation information that was aggregated by firm size and location.
Perhaps you have only seen a summary of the latest survey data - often available through the media. If you have not reviewed the full AIA survey, I recommend that you find a copy, frequently available at your local AIA office.
While there are a number of different organizations that attempt to collect and distribute compensation data concerning our industry, the AIA survey is, by far, the most detailed, objective and reliable indicator of actual pay levels.
Good luck
Thanks, I requested a copy from my local aia, will hopefully see it today
those median salaray ranges are broken down by firm size somewhere i think.
It all depends on how your talents correlates with the need of that particular office. Just keep looking and see what else is out there. At least you have one job offer for now.
Glassdoor is a good resource for salary research. Even if you can't see what people are making at that specific firm, you can get a good idea of what similar firms in the area pay.
salaries.archinect.com
l3wis is right, the AIA survey is sorted into sub-categories, including by firm size.
Your potential employer is full of it.
And do not, Do not! Let them try and use the "well if you just care about money" bull. You have a high level degree in your industry, are licensed and have been working in your targeted industry for 8 years. Trying to negotiate a salary in your mid-career in the 70k-80k range in no way makes you a shallow poor steward of architecture that only cares about the money.
I'm sure there are other options for them. Tell them they can hire someone with less experience if that's all they can afford. Then they can save money!
^^^ good parry...at first it seems passive aggressive, but it directly addresses their issue and puts your experience on the front burner as the most important criteria under discussion, removing money from the primary conversation
i haven't really decided what I want to do, I did ask for more and was told that they are at their limit. They do pay overtime, and have been working anywhere from 44-48 hour weeks, which would make the total salary anywhere from 77k to 84k.
Of coarse I'm not really sure that I want to be working that much either!
This may piss some millenials off but overtimes should pretty much be only for the juniors who need the time to learn the ropes.
Look, you should probably be more in the $100k (+/-10k) range with 8-10 years experience, assuming half of that is project management and not drafting.
what's the op region?
I'm in metro detroit - no one around here (that I know of) is drawing a 100k salary short of principles or senior PM's.
I agree about the salary vs. OT. I should clarify that the pay straight time after 40 hours. So on a 44 hour week I'd get an extra $135 before taxes.
The only places that do this are ones that require a lot of OT.
44 hours isn't bad, I probably do that as it is. 48 starts to get old real fast though since you almost have to come in on a weekend to hit that number.
I still don't quite understand why you don't know your value. You've got 8 or 10 years experience and I'm assuming you're currently working. I know it can be a complex, subjective calculation, but surely you know if $75k is in the ballpark based on your presumed role.
i believe
not sure what happened up there... I think 75-80 is about right for me, just looking for more concrete evidence of that
ran into an old co-worker last week who apparently passed my name on to a corp. recruiter at his firm. I wasn't super interested in the job, but told the recruiter i'd never turn down the chance to talk to someone. Anyway, he asked what it would take for me to leave, I said 85k would prob. do it. HR guys says "no problem."
All I can think now is why didn't I go higher!!!!
making 75k now
In theory... that's why you make them give you a number first...
I should know better by now
What's the reaction to low salary no raises, with promised job security during recessions, but extensive bonuses every 3 or 4 months on good years? And by extensive bonus, I mean, once you add the bonus into the low salary, you're maybe a few grand under national average. I've been led to believe this is becoming more common practice...
The promised job security and periodic bonuses are just that, Promises. The only thing you can count on is the paycheck in your hand. If promised bonuses only bring you to the low end of the salary range, then that firm is a poor payer and I would need some other good reason to work there.