I'm really interested in PennDesign because of the interdisciplinary options, faculty and the studios offered, which seem amazing, but I'm a little worried about the digital and experimental nature of the work I see. I am also wondering if the degree is thorough and practical enough to be a successful member of an office after graduation.
I would love to hear from any current students or recent alumni about the curriculum and whether the program is friendly to students looking to do more traditional work. What is studio culture like? The other classes? How are critiques? It seems that the first year studios are more exercises in ways to think, and opportunities for experimentation, which I understand, but beyond tathbut I would appreciate some first-hand feedback.
Thanks!!
mmarktfsi
Apr 7, 17 4:39 pm
noahp,
I'm just copying what I wrote in response to a similar question.
Hey there, since nobody has responded yet, I'd be happy to provide you some insight into the PennDesign program.
I graduated from Penn's M.Arch 1 program last year. I was accepted with Advanced Standing, meaning that my program length skipped the first year.
From what I have seen and heard, many of the studios offered in the first year are very digital heavy, and you may be encouraged to learn Maya as a program medium. From what I have learned about Penn and its philosophy, is that no particular course or instructor will force your hand in any medium unless it is absolutely beneficial to your work.
I was not crazy about the odd formal Maya stuff either, but did take one studio that encouraged it, and had a blast learning something that could be valuable in certain applications of architecture or product design. You absolutely do not have to use it, and can take studios in subject, aesthetic or application that you wish to. It is truly a freely thinking, freely practicing graduate school career.
I currently live and work in NYC, and have had plenty of success in interviewing and getting offered work during the summers and after graduation.
Let me know if you have more questions and good luck!
ML17
Apr 12, 17 3:28 pm
Hi mmarktfsi, quick question. I've accepted an offer from Penn for their M.Arch 1 and I was wondering what kind of background did you have to get advanced standing? I have a BFA in architectural design and I'm considering making a case for advanced standing but I'm not sure they'd give it to me without having taken any structures classes
mmarktfsi
Apr 12, 17 4:59 pm
Hey ML17, I have a similar background with a Bachelor of Design in Architecture. I did take two structures classes and I think that Penn determines advanced standing from your portfolio and undergraduate design program.
I didn't have to negotiate it as it was within their initial offer, but I have seen some admitted students from my undergraduate program successfully negotiate it. It does seem like they've been cutting back on the Advanced Standing option lately though.
ML17
Apr 12, 17 5:21 pm
Thanks, that's really helpful. If you don't mind me asking, of the people that you know that negotiated, do you know how they framed it? They've already given me a 20k scholarship so would you think my best bet is making a case through my portfolio or my design background? Any advice helps!
mmarktfsi
Apr 13, 17 11:39 am
I'm not totally sure how it was negotiated. I do think the best bet is to make a case with your work to show that you are digitally advanced enough or fluent enough in design education to be comfortable among the second year group. It definitely won't hurt to let them know if you feel that you are confident. Perhaps they could waive the digital intro studio in the summer.
ML17
Apr 13, 17 11:45 am
I will try that.
Thank you for your help!!
manda_
Apr 7, 17 5:10 pm
I have the same concern regarding digital/experimental work and am currently deciding between PennDesign and University of Michigan for M.Arch 1.
After attending both open houses, it seems that Michigan offers more practical options in terms of studios and electives, but I could be missing similar information about PennDesign.
@mmarktfsi, that's helpful!
noahp
Apr 8, 17 1:07 am
Thanks mmarktfsi!
What was your experience with studio culture and the student body? I know you said you skipped the first year, but did you find the studio progression that you did have helpful and varied? Would you say people were receptive to projects that weren't parametric or out-there? And how were critiques?
I really appreciate any insight.
mmarktfsi
Apr 8, 17 1:13 pm
No problem!
The student body was very diverse. You will meet people from all walks of life all over the world. That is the case with many top grad schools.
My studio progression was solely up to me. The second and third years you WILL have a choice among serious starchitects. Studios go by way of lottery and many people will be piling up to take the Thom Mayne, BIG, or Neil Denari studios.
I was lucky to land two in a row for my final year. I would recommend looking at the student work from Marion Weiss of Weiss/Manfredi or Dan Wood of WorkAC. They are great examples of half of the studios available that have very little parametric or hyper formal projects. I would say that PennDesign's public media team are fairly bad at representing this major part of the school, and tend to really highlight the weird and experimental.
Critiques are varied and as you move up. The more superstar the professor is, the more intimidating the jury will be (they have serious connections). But to be the best you should impress the best. Look up Pressing Matters 5 or 6 online and maybe identify the professors or projects you feel inclined to working with the most.
Grad school decisions are huge. It's the degree that will be stamped on your name through your professional career. So I'm glad to answer any questions if you have more.
calebehly
Apr 8, 17 1:33 pm
I sent you a pm, hopefully your dont mind.
archinect9
Apr 8, 17 4:19 pm
Re: the degree and reputation for later jobs. - do you think there is a difference between Penn, Univ. of Michigan, UC Berkeley, USC ?
mmarktfsi
Apr 8, 17 7:56 pm
I think that those are all very reputable programs. Two of the strongest on the west coast and two of the strongest on the east coast. I believe they carry similar weight in reputation when it comes to employment.
noahp
Apr 8, 17 10:00 pm
Hi mmarktfsi,
Thanks for your response. Would you say Penn is a good place for someone without an architecture background? Are the classes friendly despite the relatively large size?
mmarktfsi
Apr 9, 17 1:12 am
I think that Penn is great place for someone without architecture experience. One word of advice though, you need to really work hard to get up to speed if you haven't taken any kind of design course or learned any of the software. The pace of a graduate architecture design studio is not something easily learned, and you will be provided all of the tools to keep up. It's up to you to put forth the work and to be receptive of criticism.
I've seen and worked with people that were engineering or art majors in undergrad and watched them work their way to having very impressive projects over the years. I've also seen people with non-backgrounds flounder and run into trouble because they thought they had it figured out by 6pm everyday in time to go the gym or to get drinks.
I can say that mostly everyone is friendly. You are all in the same boat, and the non-majors that take the summer courses stay especially tight-knit. The studio sizes can very from 10-16 people so it's a great size to get to know everyone through two or three years.
noahp
Apr 9, 17 12:28 pm
Thanks mmarktfsi,
One more question -- How are the non-studio classes? Did you feel prepared for a career, and did you think coursework was thorough and well-rounded?
mmarktfsi
Apr 9, 17 2:51 pm
Non studio classes are excellent. I think it may be one of the school's biggest strengths. They offer some of the widest ranges of electives that can still apply to what you're practicing in studio. You can take real-estate and business classes that cross with Wharton Graduates (unquestionably the best business school in the country). You also have product design, furniture design, environmental design, theory, structure, history. It's all up to you and they are taught by some of the best in their respective fields.
I think Penn prepared me very well for a design career. I'll be totally honest that interning during the summers prepared me far more to work in an office environment versus an educational one.
archinect9
Apr 10, 17 10:45 am
Thanks for your response about comparing Penn, Univ. of Michigan, UC Berkeley, and USC , mmarktfsi
With regards to the programs, is it possible to compare similarities and differences between them ?. I realize this is a very broad question so even if you have a little information that would be much appreciated!
calebehly
Apr 10, 17 11:07 pm
So i sent an pm to one of you, but idk if it went through, or i just dont know how to check if i got a response, but i had a couple quick question!
1. How does being a TA/GA/RA at PENN work, is it competitive? whats the compensation? Do most students who want a spot get one?
2.Along with that whats the Grad to Undergrad ratio?
3. I know they say philly is relatively cheap to live in(compared to ny) what did you actually pay?
4. whats the professional environment in philly like, for summer jobs?
Thanks!
mmarktfsi
Apr 11, 17 9:52 am
calebehly,
I got an email for a PM and responded, but I think Archinect sends responses to your email. I'll just paste what I wrote here for everyone's reference:
In my honest opinion, the money is worth what you put into your experience.
If you are asking if the money will pay off once you're out of school, then that may be up to what you want to pursue after school as well.
From what I have seen as both a grad student looking for work and an employer recruiting students, the name of the school and the program CAN MATTER in many ways.
I currently work for a medium sized, fairly well known design office in NYC that pays in the mid to high range for intro positions. Out of the schools that you have listed, my office only recruits from two of them via career fairs or resumes. You can probably guess which ones...... (Ivy-League). I have several friends that have gone to Syracuse for graduate school and that program is also strong, but in my fully honest opinion does not carry the same weight or connections that Penn or Columbia do when it comes to applying for work. It may sound ultra-cliche or unfair, but based on my own observations, it really seems to be true in retrospect.
I cannot say that you would not be as successful at the other schools, as those programs both have strengths and weaknesses over the rest. I do know that if you do well at any grad school, you can be successful anywhere, it's really about choosing what you want to focus on and work in when school is over. The actual profession can be as diverse as the schools sometimes.
Ultimately, I think that Columbia and Penn have these resources and reputations from simply existing as some of the oldest and most prestigious design schools in the country in order to bring in the faculty that are practicing what you would consider the frontier of DESIGN education. These are big names that you see published everywhere and when you look for their backgrounds, they more often than not have gone to these schools themselves.
As far as money goes, Penn offers a huge slate of additional scholarships and grants the form of competitions or just merit rewards. If they offered you money already I would say you have a good chance to receive more during your time there. Just apply for everything you can and the chances are good. They can range from ~5k to 20k. Check their awards and scholarship page to see what you can look for.
The cheapest apartment I paid for was around 900 a month. But that's for a one BR apartment in West Philly by myself. I've had friends pay 700-800 for a studio or 4-500 for a bedroom in a shared space. Mostly everyone I know worked as a laser cutter operator or a TA while they were in school, and these hours are flexible with a $9-10/hour wage usually. TA's are usually selected by the professor or if you ask nicely enough and if you want a woodshop or fablab job it's pretty much yours.
Remember that your decision should always be based on what you want to do and work on. You could attend any of these programs and be successful. It's really up to you. If you think you want an intensive and design based career then Penn is one of the best schools to set you up for one. This is all my own opinion though, and many will disagree.
Feel free to keep asking questions I'll be happy to answer them!
calebehly
Apr 11, 17 2:41 pm
Just to calrify, TA/GA spots dont waive tuition credits or give a stipend, its just pay per hour?
Also what are the traveling options? are they through visiting critic studios? studios in general? is it payed for through your tuition?
I know you mentioned PENN tends to publish and showcase more of their Parametric/Heavy digital work, what would you say the balance in that really is between students and faculty? Im extremely interested in the relationship between the Digital the production and how representation starts to play major role in the practice of architecture, so those ideals that are being pushed by Penn im ok with, but im just interesting in seeing how diverse of a faculty and design minds there are.(not wanting every body to be grasshopper divas)
Right now i thinkhedging out CUNY, i just dont think its a program at the same level as the others. Columbia, is just too much 15k is no where near enough, but 20k at PENN seams doable if im looking to take out money. And Syracuse has its benefits of really good ta placemnet and pay.
mmarktfsi
Apr 11, 17 4:03 pm
calebehly,
Graduate Teaching Assistant-ships both count as tuition credits and pay you.
The second and third years will include paid studio trips and site visits. Where you go depends on your studio and project. My final semester had Giancarlo Mazzanti's studio going to Bogota, Columbia, Kai-Uwe Bergmann of BIG and and Matthis Boujw of NL Architects had a joint studio that traveled to Amsterdam, and Nanako Umemoto's group went to Tokyo. These trips are all paid for and included in tuition.
I would say the balance is truly half/half between professors and students as far as the digital/formal stuff goes. There will be a studio in each year that offers wild and highly theoretical projects, there will be one somewhere in between that has a balance between the two, and there will be about a third that offers very practical but still fairly theoretical project prompts.
A good gradient of this to look at for examples are Nanako Umemoto for the ultra experimental/formal. Ferda Kolatan for the in-between, and maybe Scott Erdy/Marion Weiss for the more practical/grounded.
It's a bit of a major gripe of mine (not all others) that PennDesign seems to highlight the experimental/formal, as it really isn't what PennDesign is all about. I believe it's more of a truly even mix of both the students and the faculty.
kai4708
Apr 12, 17 8:46 am
mmarktfsi your answers have been extremely helpful as I am interested in the work that is not as highly experimental and digital.
You mention professors on the spectrum of highly digital to practical that are in the upper level studios. How does this play out in the first year studios where you are unable to choose professors? If you get placed with a more experimental professor, are they open to different modes of representation -- drawings, axons, collages etc. -- rather than hyper real renderings and very experimental designs?
In your first year, is using Maya / Grasshopper a requirement?
Can someone interested in different modes of representation than you often see in pressing matters (post-digital drawings/collages, drawings you often see at GSAPP) pursue this at penndesign, or would this be difficult?
noahp
Apr 11, 17 11:24 pm
Hi mmarktfsi,
Are there opportunities to work on non-urban, small-scale projects? And how do you feel being in Philly affected your education (if at all)?
Thanks!!
kai4708
Apr 12, 17 8:45 am
mmarktfsi your answers have been extremely helpful as I am interested in the work that is not as highly experimental and digital.
You mention professors on the spectrum of highly digital to practical that are in the upper level studios. How does this play out in the first year studios where you are unable to choose professors? If you get placed with a more experimental professor, are they open to different modes of representation -- drawings, axons, collages etc. -- rather than hyper real renderings and very experimental designs?
In your first year, is using Maya / Grasshopper a requirement?
Can someone interested in different modes of representation than you often see in pressing matters (post-digital drawings/collages, drawings you often see at GSAPP) pursue this at penndesign, or would this be difficult?
mmarktfsi
Apr 12, 17 10:27 am
kai4708,
Since my acceptance allowed me to forgo the first year of the program, I can't speak about the professors or the experience from personal experience, but I can share with you what I have seen and heard from friends and colleagues.
From what I understand the first year does not have a studio lottery and you do not apply for professors in the same manner. I can say that even the most formal/experimental studio will not push their agenda on you to create something that you have no interest in or don't believe is developmental for you. I know at least half of the professors in the first year, and they are great at finding the strengths in what you want to focus on and to work their teaching around it. Remember, this is grad school, and it should and will always be your choice of what you want to pursue to express your design intentions.
I also should have mentioned that PennDesign in the past year has brought in new faculty for the first year of the M.Arch program, and from what I have seen, I have been extremely impressed with what the first year group produced last year. It really is nothing like what has been seen and published in year's past and it does more closely resemble what you might be referring to in collage/axonometric/analytical drawings instead of renderings and experimental forms.
I can say with confidence that you will NEVER be required to learn grasshopper or maya, but it may be beneficial and even easier when it comes to certain project applications. I've taken studios that traditionally push for Maya modeling where certain students adamantly insisted on using Rhino and ended up having their work published.
You should not have difficulty expressing your work however you wish to, so long as there is clarity and justification for it. That is what a high quality design school is intended to teach you. I think PennDesign is great at it, so I really don't think you'll have a problem.
mmarktfsi
Apr 12, 17 10:41 am
noahp,
There are several opportunities to work on projects that aren't at a large urban scale. I believe that the very first semester has you work in teams to design a small-scale pavilion.
One of the greatest aspects about going to school Philadelphia was its proximity to NYC (No kidding). As you may know, many of the world's most prominent design offices are located in NYC and many of their principals or leaders commute to teach at Penn. It also helps that many of these offices will recruit from Penn each year for internships and full-time jobs. Check the PennDesign Career Fair for the list of employers that attended, we couldn't even fit them all in a massive banquet hall so the school had to reserve two of them.
Aside from that, I felt that Philly is a city with the perfect pace for grad school. Not too slow and miserable that you would feel like school was the only thing that existed there (IE: Ithaca or Syracuse), and not too quick paced that you would feel burnt out or stressed (IE: NYC). It's also close enough to NYC or DC where you could be in either city in 2-3 hours if you wanna take a trip. Philly also has a pretty great slate of local offices with international recognition such as Kieran Timberlake, EwingCole and Ballinger. These are offices that many including myself had the opportunity to intern at during the summers.
calebehly
Apr 13, 17 12:22 am
Couple last minute questions
Is it common for studio to travel each semester, what you mentioned above was rather invigorating and interesting!
How does advance standings work? you mentioned you were there just for two years?
In Winka a heavy influence? or has she started to wain from the program?
Is there collaboration between other schools in the area at all?
Did you find you had time to take weekend trips to say ny and go to lectures and so on?
Im most likely accepting a spot, and im super excited, a little hesitant on the loans ill take but i know its doable to pay off even if i dont get any TA spots.
Thanks again guys!
mmarktfsi
Apr 13, 17 11:29 am
calebehly,
It is common for a studio to travel. Even if it's just to your site in NYC. I'm not totally sure about how often the first year will travel, but the second and third year you should expect to take class trips once or twice each semester.
From what I understand Advanced Standing is determined by your portfolio and undergraduate program strength. I think they have to determine that you have demonstrated that you are digitally adept and have had enough training in design education to fit seamlessly into a second year grad studio. This also means that you are waived from the summer courses.
Winka does teach a studio occasionally, and she is usually involved as a guest critic for midterms or final presentations, but I feel most of what she does is determine the direction of the program by using her connections to bring in some superstar faculty. She was able to convince Thom Mayne, Tom Wiscombe and Niel Denari to all travel from the west coast to come teach in the same semester.
As far as other schools, there are not a lot of schools in Philly that have the same theoretical design repertoire as Penn does. You may find yourself in competition with Temple students or if you work in Philly you may mix with some Drexel or A.I. folks, but there's not a whole lot of collaboration between us.
Lastly, I always found two or three days a week to travel or relax, and that is completely contingent on how you plan and manage your time. You should always get your work done, but in my opinion all-nighter studio culture is completely unwarranted unless there's a huge deadline for something.
If you do sign with Penn, I would like to congratulate you and welcome you to a great network and institution! Enjoy it all while it lasts, as it can really go by fast, and as far as a Design Career goes it can be some of the most engaging and inspiring years you will experience!
I know a lot of you here are looking to make a formal decision this week. So if there's more questions i'll stick around. Good luck to everyone!
Hi guys,
I'm really interested in PennDesign because of the interdisciplinary options, faculty and the studios offered, which seem amazing, but I'm a little worried about the digital and experimental nature of the work I see. I am also wondering if the degree is thorough and practical enough to be a successful member of an office after graduation.
I would love to hear from any current students or recent alumni about the curriculum and whether the program is friendly to students looking to do more traditional work. What is studio culture like? The other classes? How are critiques? It seems that the first year studios are more exercises in ways to think, and opportunities for experimentation, which I understand, but beyond tathbut I would appreciate some first-hand feedback.
Thanks!!
noahp,
I'm just copying what I wrote in response to a similar question.
Hey there, since nobody has responded yet, I'd be happy to provide you some insight into the PennDesign program.
I graduated from Penn's M.Arch 1 program last year. I was accepted with Advanced Standing, meaning that my program length skipped the first year.
From what I have seen and heard, many of the studios offered in the first year are very digital heavy, and you may be encouraged to learn Maya as a program medium. From what I have learned about Penn and its philosophy, is that no particular course or instructor will force your hand in any medium unless it is absolutely beneficial to your work.
I was not crazy about the odd formal Maya stuff either, but did take one studio that encouraged it, and had a blast learning something that could be valuable in certain applications of architecture or product design. You absolutely do not have to use it, and can take studios in subject, aesthetic or application that you wish to. It is truly a freely thinking, freely practicing graduate school career.
I currently live and work in NYC, and have had plenty of success in interviewing and getting offered work during the summers and after graduation.
Let me know if you have more questions and good luck!
Hi mmarktfsi, quick question. I've accepted an offer from Penn for their M.Arch 1 and I was wondering what kind of background did you have to get advanced standing? I have a BFA in architectural design and I'm considering making a case for advanced standing but I'm not sure they'd give it to me without having taken any structures classes
Hey ML17, I have a similar background with a Bachelor of Design in Architecture. I did take two structures classes and I think that Penn determines advanced standing from your portfolio and undergraduate design program.
I didn't have to negotiate it as it was within their initial offer, but I have seen some admitted students from my undergraduate program successfully negotiate it. It does seem like they've been cutting back on the Advanced Standing option lately though.
Thanks, that's really helpful. If you don't mind me asking, of the people that you know that negotiated, do you know how they framed it? They've already given me a 20k scholarship so would you think my best bet is making a case through my portfolio or my design background? Any advice helps!
I'm not totally sure how it was negotiated. I do think the best bet is to make a case with your work to show that you are digitally advanced enough or fluent enough in design education to be comfortable among the second year group. It definitely won't hurt to let them know if you feel that you are confident. Perhaps they could waive the digital intro studio in the summer.
I will try that. Thank you for your help!!
I have the same concern regarding digital/experimental work and am currently deciding between PennDesign and University of Michigan for M.Arch 1.
After attending both open houses, it seems that Michigan offers more practical options in terms of studios and electives, but I could be missing similar information about PennDesign.
@mmarktfsi, that's helpful!
Thanks mmarktfsi!
What was your experience with studio culture and the student body? I know you said you skipped the first year, but did you find the studio progression that you did have helpful and varied? Would you say people were receptive to projects that weren't parametric or out-there? And how were critiques?
I really appreciate any insight.
No problem!
The student body was very diverse. You will meet people from all walks of life all over the world. That is the case with many top grad schools.
My studio progression was solely up to me. The second and third years you WILL have a choice among serious starchitects. Studios go by way of lottery and many people will be piling up to take the Thom Mayne, BIG, or Neil Denari studios.
I was lucky to land two in a row for my final year. I would recommend looking at the student work from Marion Weiss of Weiss/Manfredi or Dan Wood of WorkAC. They are great examples of half of the studios available that have very little parametric or hyper formal projects. I would say that PennDesign's public media team are fairly bad at representing this major part of the school, and tend to really highlight the weird and experimental.
Critiques are varied and as you move up. The more superstar the professor is, the more intimidating the jury will be (they have serious connections). But to be the best you should impress the best. Look up Pressing Matters 5 or 6 online and maybe identify the professors or projects you feel inclined to working with the most.
Grad school decisions are huge. It's the degree that will be stamped on your name through your professional career. So I'm glad to answer any questions if you have more.
I sent you a pm, hopefully your dont mind.
Re: the degree and reputation for later jobs. - do you think there is a difference between Penn, Univ. of Michigan, UC Berkeley, USC ?
I think that those are all very reputable programs. Two of the strongest on the west coast and two of the strongest on the east coast. I believe they carry similar weight in reputation when it comes to employment.
Hi mmarktfsi,
Thanks for your response. Would you say Penn is a good place for someone without an architecture background? Are the classes friendly despite the relatively large size?
I think that Penn is great place for someone without architecture experience. One word of advice though, you need to really work hard to get up to speed if you haven't taken any kind of design course or learned any of the software. The pace of a graduate architecture design studio is not something easily learned, and you will be provided all of the tools to keep up. It's up to you to put forth the work and to be receptive of criticism.
I've seen and worked with people that were engineering or art majors in undergrad and watched them work their way to having very impressive projects over the years. I've also seen people with non-backgrounds flounder and run into trouble because they thought they had it figured out by 6pm everyday in time to go the gym or to get drinks.
I can say that mostly everyone is friendly. You are all in the same boat, and the non-majors that take the summer courses stay especially tight-knit. The studio sizes can very from 10-16 people so it's a great size to get to know everyone through two or three years.
Thanks mmarktfsi,
One more question -- How are the non-studio classes? Did you feel prepared for a career, and did you think coursework was thorough and well-rounded?
Non studio classes are excellent. I think it may be one of the school's biggest strengths. They offer some of the widest ranges of electives that can still apply to what you're practicing in studio. You can take real-estate and business classes that cross with Wharton Graduates (unquestionably the best business school in the country). You also have product design, furniture design, environmental design, theory, structure, history. It's all up to you and they are taught by some of the best in their respective fields.
I think Penn prepared me very well for a design career. I'll be totally honest that interning during the summers prepared me far more to work in an office environment versus an educational one.
Thanks for your response about comparing Penn, Univ. of Michigan, UC Berkeley, and USC , mmarktfsi
With regards to the programs, is it possible to compare similarities and differences between them ?. I realize this is a very broad question so even if you have a little information that would be much appreciated!
So i sent an pm to one of you, but idk if it went through, or i just dont know how to check if i got a response, but i had a couple quick question!
1. How does being a TA/GA/RA at PENN work, is it competitive? whats the compensation? Do most students who want a spot get one?
2.Along with that whats the Grad to Undergrad ratio?
3. I know they say philly is relatively cheap to live in(compared to ny) what did you actually pay?
4. whats the professional environment in philly like, for summer jobs?
Thanks!
calebehly,
I got an email for a PM and responded, but I think Archinect sends responses to your email. I'll just paste what I wrote here for everyone's reference:
In my honest opinion, the money is worth what you put into your experience.
If you are asking if the money will pay off once you're out of school, then that may be up to what you want to pursue after school as well.
From what I have seen as both a grad student looking for work and an employer recruiting students, the name of the school and the program CAN MATTER in many ways.
I currently work for a medium sized, fairly well known design office in NYC that pays in the mid to high range for intro positions. Out of the schools that you have listed, my office only recruits from two of them via career fairs or resumes. You can probably guess which ones...... (Ivy-League). I have several friends that have gone to Syracuse for graduate school and that program is also strong, but in my fully honest opinion does not carry the same weight or connections that Penn or Columbia do when it comes to applying for work. It may sound ultra-cliche or unfair, but based on my own observations, it really seems to be true in retrospect.
I cannot say that you would not be as successful at the other schools, as those programs both have strengths and weaknesses over the rest. I do know that if you do well at any grad school, you can be successful anywhere, it's really about choosing what you want to focus on and work in when school is over. The actual profession can be as diverse as the schools sometimes.
Ultimately, I think that Columbia and Penn have these resources and reputations from simply existing as some of the oldest and most prestigious design schools in the country in order to bring in the faculty that are practicing what you would consider the frontier of DESIGN education. These are big names that you see published everywhere and when you look for their backgrounds, they more often than not have gone to these schools themselves.
As far as money goes, Penn offers a huge slate of additional scholarships and grants the form of competitions or just merit rewards. If they offered you money already I would say you have a good chance to receive more during your time there. Just apply for everything you can and the chances are good. They can range from ~5k to 20k. Check their awards and scholarship page to see what you can look for.
The cheapest apartment I paid for was around 900 a month. But that's for a one BR apartment in West Philly by myself. I've had friends pay 700-800 for a studio or 4-500 for a bedroom in a shared space. Mostly everyone I know worked as a laser cutter operator or a TA while they were in school, and these hours are flexible with a $9-10/hour wage usually. TA's are usually selected by the professor or if you ask nicely enough and if you want a woodshop or fablab job it's pretty much yours.
Remember that your decision should always be based on what you want to do and work on. You could attend any of these programs and be successful. It's really up to you. If you think you want an intensive and design based career then Penn is one of the best schools to set you up for one. This is all my own opinion though, and many will disagree.
Feel free to keep asking questions I'll be happy to answer them!
Just to calrify, TA/GA spots dont waive tuition credits or give a stipend, its just pay per hour?
Also what are the traveling options? are they through visiting critic studios? studios in general? is it payed for through your tuition?
I know you mentioned PENN tends to publish and showcase more of their Parametric/Heavy digital work, what would you say the balance in that really is between students and faculty? Im extremely interested in the relationship between the Digital the production and how representation starts to play major role in the practice of architecture, so those ideals that are being pushed by Penn im ok with, but im just interesting in seeing how diverse of a faculty and design minds there are.(not wanting every body to be grasshopper divas)
Right now i thinkhedging out CUNY, i just dont think its a program at the same level as the others. Columbia, is just too much 15k is no where near enough, but 20k at PENN seams doable if im looking to take out money. And Syracuse has its benefits of really good ta placemnet and pay.
calebehly,
Graduate Teaching Assistant-ships both count as tuition credits and pay you.
The second and third years will include paid studio trips and site visits. Where you go depends on your studio and project. My final semester had Giancarlo Mazzanti's studio going to Bogota, Columbia, Kai-Uwe Bergmann of BIG and and Matthis Boujw of NL Architects had a joint studio that traveled to Amsterdam, and Nanako Umemoto's group went to Tokyo. These trips are all paid for and included in tuition.
I would say the balance is truly half/half between professors and students as far as the digital/formal stuff goes. There will be a studio in each year that offers wild and highly theoretical projects, there will be one somewhere in between that has a balance between the two, and there will be about a third that offers very practical but still fairly theoretical project prompts.
A good gradient of this to look at for examples are Nanako Umemoto for the ultra experimental/formal. Ferda Kolatan for the in-between, and maybe Scott Erdy/Marion Weiss for the more practical/grounded.
It's a bit of a major gripe of mine (not all others) that PennDesign seems to highlight the experimental/formal, as it really isn't what PennDesign is all about. I believe it's more of a truly even mix of both the students and the faculty.
mmarktfsi your answers have been extremely helpful as I am interested in the work that is not as highly experimental and digital. You mention professors on the spectrum of highly digital to practical that are in the upper level studios. How does this play out in the first year studios where you are unable to choose professors? If you get placed with a more experimental professor, are they open to different modes of representation -- drawings, axons, collages etc. -- rather than hyper real renderings and very experimental designs? In your first year, is using Maya / Grasshopper a requirement? Can someone interested in different modes of representation than you often see in pressing matters (post-digital drawings/collages, drawings you often see at GSAPP) pursue this at penndesign, or would this be difficult?
Hi mmarktfsi,
Are there opportunities to work on non-urban, small-scale projects? And how do you feel being in Philly affected your education (if at all)?
Thanks!!
mmarktfsi your answers have been extremely helpful as I am interested in the work that is not as highly experimental and digital.
You mention professors on the spectrum of highly digital to practical that are in the upper level studios. How does this play out in the first year studios where you are unable to choose professors? If you get placed with a more experimental professor, are they open to different modes of representation -- drawings, axons, collages etc. -- rather than hyper real renderings and very experimental designs?
In your first year, is using Maya / Grasshopper a requirement?
Can someone interested in different modes of representation than you often see in pressing matters (post-digital drawings/collages, drawings you often see at GSAPP) pursue this at penndesign, or would this be difficult?
kai4708,
Since my acceptance allowed me to forgo the first year of the program, I can't speak about the professors or the experience from personal experience, but I can share with you what I have seen and heard from friends and colleagues.
From what I understand the first year does not have a studio lottery and you do not apply for professors in the same manner. I can say that even the most formal/experimental studio will not push their agenda on you to create something that you have no interest in or don't believe is developmental for you. I know at least half of the professors in the first year, and they are great at finding the strengths in what you want to focus on and to work their teaching around it. Remember, this is grad school, and it should and will always be your choice of what you want to pursue to express your design intentions.
I also should have mentioned that PennDesign in the past year has brought in new faculty for the first year of the M.Arch program, and from what I have seen, I have been extremely impressed with what the first year group produced last year. It really is nothing like what has been seen and published in year's past and it does more closely resemble what you might be referring to in collage/axonometric/analytical drawings instead of renderings and experimental forms.
I can say with confidence that you will NEVER be required to learn grasshopper or maya, but it may be beneficial and even easier when it comes to certain project applications. I've taken studios that traditionally push for Maya modeling where certain students adamantly insisted on using Rhino and ended up having their work published.
You should not have difficulty expressing your work however you wish to, so long as there is clarity and justification for it. That is what a high quality design school is intended to teach you. I think PennDesign is great at it, so I really don't think you'll have a problem.
noahp,
There are several opportunities to work on projects that aren't at a large urban scale. I believe that the very first semester has you work in teams to design a small-scale pavilion.
One of the greatest aspects about going to school Philadelphia was its proximity to NYC (No kidding). As you may know, many of the world's most prominent design offices are located in NYC and many of their principals or leaders commute to teach at Penn. It also helps that many of these offices will recruit from Penn each year for internships and full-time jobs. Check the PennDesign Career Fair for the list of employers that attended, we couldn't even fit them all in a massive banquet hall so the school had to reserve two of them.
Aside from that, I felt that Philly is a city with the perfect pace for grad school. Not too slow and miserable that you would feel like school was the only thing that existed there (IE: Ithaca or Syracuse), and not too quick paced that you would feel burnt out or stressed (IE: NYC). It's also close enough to NYC or DC where you could be in either city in 2-3 hours if you wanna take a trip. Philly also has a pretty great slate of local offices with international recognition such as Kieran Timberlake, EwingCole and Ballinger. These are offices that many including myself had the opportunity to intern at during the summers.
Couple last minute questions
Is it common for studio to travel each semester, what you mentioned above was rather invigorating and interesting!
How does advance standings work? you mentioned you were there just for two years?
In Winka a heavy influence? or has she started to wain from the program?
Is there collaboration between other schools in the area at all?
Did you find you had time to take weekend trips to say ny and go to lectures and so on?
Im most likely accepting a spot, and im super excited, a little hesitant on the loans ill take but i know its doable to pay off even if i dont get any TA spots.
Thanks again guys!
calebehly,
It is common for a studio to travel. Even if it's just to your site in NYC. I'm not totally sure about how often the first year will travel, but the second and third year you should expect to take class trips once or twice each semester.
From what I understand Advanced Standing is determined by your portfolio and undergraduate program strength. I think they have to determine that you have demonstrated that you are digitally adept and have had enough training in design education to fit seamlessly into a second year grad studio. This also means that you are waived from the summer courses.
Winka does teach a studio occasionally, and she is usually involved as a guest critic for midterms or final presentations, but I feel most of what she does is determine the direction of the program by using her connections to bring in some superstar faculty. She was able to convince Thom Mayne, Tom Wiscombe and Niel Denari to all travel from the west coast to come teach in the same semester.
As far as other schools, there are not a lot of schools in Philly that have the same theoretical design repertoire as Penn does. You may find yourself in competition with Temple students or if you work in Philly you may mix with some Drexel or A.I. folks, but there's not a whole lot of collaboration between us.
Lastly, I always found two or three days a week to travel or relax, and that is completely contingent on how you plan and manage your time. You should always get your work done, but in my opinion all-nighter studio culture is completely unwarranted unless there's a huge deadline for something.
If you do sign with Penn, I would like to congratulate you and welcome you to a great network and institution! Enjoy it all while it lasts, as it can really go by fast, and as far as a Design Career goes it can be some of the most engaging and inspiring years you will experience!
I know a lot of you here are looking to make a formal decision this week. So if there's more questions i'll stick around. Good luck to everyone!