so I've thought about killing myself for years, but then I remembered I was an architect, and when I did that I went all all Ayn Rand on my ass and well now I have a beautiful wife and children and I owe it to them to hang out.
Sometimes I wonder, is Patrick Schumacher lonely or just insane?
[don't worry I won't do it tonight, have too many deadlines]
Just wondering, if other architects, that aren't Patrick, like me, feel the same way?
chigurh
Nov 24, 16 8:55 am
If you are feeling that way, I would suggest seeking out professional help and if your career is a driver for the feelings of depression - change it.
Non Sequitur
Nov 24, 16 9:09 am
Thumbs up to Chig's post. I've been there before, prior to arch school.
awaiting_deletion
Nov 24, 16 9:54 am
what are the triggers of the profession?
awaiting_deletion
Nov 24, 16 12:50 pm
tell us more Q
natematt
Nov 24, 16 1:30 pm
Statistics say architecture/engineering is one of the worst professions for suicide. A friend of mine lost a co-worker a couple years back, and last year an engineer on my project committed suicide. I was waiting for an email response from the guy...
It’s a stressful profession with awful work-life balance, low pay, and very little appreciation.
curtkram
Nov 24, 16 2:42 pm
If things get too shitty, come back to the Midwest. The pace is slower and the people are kind of more decent
Wilma Buttfit
Nov 24, 16 5:14 pm
Ease up on the crazy deadlines. Everyone does not need their drawings done the day before Thanksgiving.
citizen
Nov 24, 16 5:50 pm
Your danged right you owe it to your family to stick around. Surviving families of suicides are dealt an unfair, impossibly heavy burden to wonder and feel guilty about for the rest of their lives.
Guilt aside, get some help for yourself, so you can feel better-- or at least better able to cope. I've known dozens of friends and colleagues over the years who benefited mightily from therapy, counseling, AA, NA, ACA, church, yoga, and other places of refuge... or some combination. Good luck.
awaiting_deletion
Nov 24, 16 6:49 pm
natematt thats it and its years on the reward end. the most chilling one i heard was an engineer from a roof and the rest is too tragic to talk about.....we had this discussion once in an office and we determined the architects ego far outweighed the possibility......tintt i worked today......anyway that hejduk bit was interesting.....
awaiting_deletion
Nov 24, 16 6:56 pm
curt you are correct about the midwest. one of the engineers i know did eventually move back......i often write what i read which was Sam Harris and Chuck Palahniuk this week among others (poor choice combination - no free will and nihilism chaos).....contrasting the Chuck short stories with Vonneguts short stories as versions of America- the nihilism is amazing and the midwest if it was what it once was (which i experienced in a small town) would be nice....but came to far now and citizen as noted archiects ego's are to big for pro help ;)
Peter Normand
Nov 24, 16 6:58 pm
architecture is a calling but also a career/job. Within the calling you can have many jobs. If you are getting slammed all the time,if your co workers are fans of mas transit projects because of the availability of buses, don't worry too much. you are skilled talented and experienced professional and a new opportunity with decent people is out there.
The economy is good, not perfect but good. You can get another job, one that doesn't grind you down or abuse you. The worst thing you can do for yourself and the profession is to stick with a shitty job / work environment. Don't let yourself settle for something less than ideal, good opportunities are out there, and good things do and will change so no shame in cutting loses and starting new.
In this profession starting over and moving on is part of moving forward.
Over and OUT
Peter N
Wilma Buttfit
Nov 24, 16 9:06 pm
Well Olaf, you have my number. Call me whenever you get the urge and I'll talk you down from the ledge. Meanwhile, how about you hang out with your family, they need you more than your clients.
awaiting_deletion
Nov 24, 16 9:56 pm
yes ma'am ;). but they usually sleeping when i work into the wee hours
citizen
Nov 24, 16 10:50 pm
Can't tell if your kidding or not about the fatally big egos we're all supposed to have, Olaf. ("Crock of horseshit" is a colorful term my dear old boss used to use.)
Each of us decides if and when to humble ourselves. Can it seem impossibly hard? Of course. But it sounds as though you have several good reasons to try it.
(If I'm misreading, disregard.)
whistler
Nov 25, 16 1:55 pm
As a prof of mine used to say the priorities in life are;
FUN
FAMILY
WORK
He was a hard ass prof too but used to come into the studio at midnight before a deadline and steal everyone's work so they hard to go home and sleep...... he said school is just that, no one was learning anything between midnight and studio the next day. Just not worth burning brain cells for the all nighter. Besides if everyone was sleep deprived you couldn't present your work anyway.
I have a ton of respect for people who manage to balance their love of work / family / life.
But I also have waves of self contained burst of creativity with bumps of sour realizations that it doesn't really make sense, often times makes me want to leave the profession. I guess the solution is to always have access to like-minded people, or friends/ family in general. I'm sure PS is just too busy to contemplate in solitude these days.
mightyaa
Nov 28, 16 9:02 pm
I’m probably like you, just sort of manipulate my perceptions. I’ve had suicidal thoughts quite regularly; several times in my life, they’ve been on the serious side. Then again, I also regularly opine the ramifications of vehicular manslaughter on my commute as well :P. It is not about balance (unless you convince yourself that sounds good to you). It is all about perception.
Things discovered at the bottom of the pit. Rule 1: You and you alone control your emotions, others (more particularly how you interpret those others), can at best only influence your emotional state. Rule 2: No emotion is bad and should be denied, and if you dig and pay attention, you ‘feel’ and observe a lot more than just what you’ve allowed your brain to focus on.
You might be focused and seeking out depression as a higher function; sort of like putting on blinders. That’s ok, but also don’t forget to acknowledge the other stuff you see and experience as well. I’ve sort of adopted a mantra; “you will find only what you seek”. The lesson is basically if you are just seeking sh!t, you’ll tune in your head to smell, see, and experience it everywhere (including just hints of it) while walking right past that rose, that fresh bread, etc..
It’s basically what you did. Instead of focusing down, you widened your view just enough to allow a change in your root perception. I’ve also found “it” (being whatever “it” is that can change your perception) doesn’t even have to be real. It just has to tickle a fancy and get your synapses firing in a different pattern. So, back to my opening; I can laugh at myself as I plot out the best vectors and acceleration to mangle you and your vehicle. Nothing about that means I have to do squat, I just needed to laugh to stop my brain from focusing on what a idiot driver you are and escalating my emotional response to my perception of who you are (which is rather limited). I control my own damn emotions and it’s ok to feel frustrated (or suicidal).
kristapskarnītis
Dec 1, 16 5:38 am
+1 on changing direction. Perhaps not necessarily in a different industry. I switched to visualizations recently and it has been a great improvement in terms of job satisfaction, plus I get to participate in client meetings and see people appreciate the work our team does.
Best wishes
OneLostArchitect
Jun 30, 18 8:56 am
seriously if anyone has these feelings go get some professional help. I know there is a stigma against depression but there is help. I get that this profession is depressing at times, but with anything in life there are struggles and triumphs. It’s how we get past the struggles that define ya. There is so much in the horizon to explore outside of architecture.
shellarchitect
Jul 1, 18 8:21 pm
Not much to add about depression, but regarding deadlines.....
One of the best things about having a kid is leaving at a specific time. If some dumbass PM suddenly remembers that they need something from me at 430 (an architectural emergency) that requires me to stay late w zero notice, they are SOL.
I have zero sympathy for poor planning on the part of others
so I've thought about killing myself for years, but then I remembered I was an architect, and when I did that I went all all Ayn Rand on my ass and well now I have a beautiful wife and children and I owe it to them to hang out.
Sometimes I wonder, is Patrick Schumacher lonely or just insane?
[don't worry I won't do it tonight, have too many deadlines]
Just wondering, if other architects, that aren't Patrick, like me, feel the same way?
If you are feeling that way, I would suggest seeking out professional help and if your career is a driver for the feelings of depression - change it.
Thumbs up to Chig's post. I've been there before, prior to arch school.
what are the triggers of the profession?
tell us more Q
Statistics say architecture/engineering is one of the worst professions for suicide. A friend of mine lost a co-worker a couple years back, and last year an engineer on my project committed suicide. I was waiting for an email response from the guy...
It’s a stressful profession with awful work-life balance, low pay, and very little appreciation.
If things get too shitty, come back to the Midwest. The pace is slower and the people are kind of more decent
Ease up on the crazy deadlines. Everyone does not need their drawings done the day before Thanksgiving.
Your danged right you owe it to your family to stick around. Surviving families of suicides are dealt an unfair, impossibly heavy burden to wonder and feel guilty about for the rest of their lives.
Guilt aside, get some help for yourself, so you can feel better-- or at least better able to cope. I've known dozens of friends and colleagues over the years who benefited mightily from therapy, counseling, AA, NA, ACA, church, yoga, and other places of refuge... or some combination. Good luck.
natematt thats it and its years on the reward end. the most chilling one i heard was an engineer from a roof and the rest is too tragic to talk about.....we had this discussion once in an office and we determined the architects ego far outweighed the possibility......tintt i worked today......anyway that hejduk bit was interesting.....
curt you are correct about the midwest. one of the engineers i know did eventually move back......i often write what i read which was Sam Harris and Chuck Palahniuk this week among others (poor choice combination - no free will and nihilism chaos).....contrasting the Chuck short stories with Vonneguts short stories as versions of America- the nihilism is amazing and the midwest if it was what it once was (which i experienced in a small town) would be nice....but came to far now and citizen as noted archiects ego's are to big for pro help ;)
architecture is a calling but also a career/job. Within the calling you can have many jobs. If you are getting slammed all the time,if your co workers are fans of mas transit projects because of the availability of buses, don't worry too much. you are skilled talented and experienced professional and a new opportunity with decent people is out there.
The economy is good, not perfect but good. You can get another job, one that doesn't grind you down or abuse you. The worst thing you can do for yourself and the profession is to stick with a shitty job / work environment. Don't let yourself settle for something less than ideal, good opportunities are out there, and good things do and will change so no shame in cutting loses and starting new.
In this profession starting over and moving on is part of moving forward.
Over and OUT
Peter N
Well Olaf, you have my number. Call me whenever you get the urge and I'll talk you down from the ledge. Meanwhile, how about you hang out with your family, they need you more than your clients.
yes ma'am ;). but they usually sleeping when i work into the wee hours
Can't tell if your kidding or not about the fatally big egos we're all supposed to have, Olaf. ("Crock of horseshit" is a colorful term my dear old boss used to use.)
Each of us decides if and when to humble ourselves. Can it seem impossibly hard? Of course. But it sounds as though you have several good reasons to try it.
(If I'm misreading, disregard.)
As a prof of mine used to say the priorities in life are;
FUN
FAMILY
WORK
He was a hard ass prof too but used to come into the studio at midnight before a deadline and steal everyone's work so they hard to go home and sleep...... he said school is just that, no one was learning anything between midnight and studio the next day. Just not worth burning brain cells for the all nighter. Besides if everyone was sleep deprived you couldn't present your work anyway.
I have a ton of respect for people who manage to balance their love of work / family / life.
citizen you are correct and so is whistler.
for any young architect out there, don't do it.
but had to do it to olaf.
Promoting your blog, sir?
I thought Patrik's married?
But I also have waves of self contained burst of creativity with bumps of sour realizations that it doesn't really make sense, often times makes me want to leave the profession. I guess the solution is to always have access to like-minded people, or friends/ family in general. I'm sure PS is just too busy to contemplate in solitude these days.
I’m probably like you, just sort of manipulate my perceptions. I’ve had suicidal thoughts quite regularly; several times in my life, they’ve been on the serious side. Then again, I also regularly opine the ramifications of vehicular manslaughter on my commute as well :P. It is not about balance (unless you convince yourself that sounds good to you). It is all about perception.
Things discovered at the bottom of the pit. Rule 1: You and you alone control your emotions, others (more particularly how you interpret those others), can at best only influence your emotional state. Rule 2: No emotion is bad and should be denied, and if you dig and pay attention, you ‘feel’ and observe a lot more than just what you’ve allowed your brain to focus on.
You might be focused and seeking out depression as a higher function; sort of like putting on blinders. That’s ok, but also don’t forget to acknowledge the other stuff you see and experience as well. I’ve sort of adopted a mantra; “you will find only what you seek”. The lesson is basically if you are just seeking sh!t, you’ll tune in your head to smell, see, and experience it everywhere (including just hints of it) while walking right past that rose, that fresh bread, etc..
It’s basically what you did. Instead of focusing down, you widened your view just enough to allow a change in your root perception. I’ve also found “it” (being whatever “it” is that can change your perception) doesn’t even have to be real. It just has to tickle a fancy and get your synapses firing in a different pattern. So, back to my opening; I can laugh at myself as I plot out the best vectors and acceleration to mangle you and your vehicle. Nothing about that means I have to do squat, I just needed to laugh to stop my brain from focusing on what a idiot driver you are and escalating my emotional response to my perception of who you are (which is rather limited). I control my own damn emotions and it’s ok to feel frustrated (or suicidal).
+1 on changing direction. Perhaps not necessarily in a different industry. I switched to visualizations recently and it has been a great improvement in terms of job satisfaction, plus I get to participate in client meetings and see people appreciate the work our team does.
Best wishes
seriously if anyone has these feelings go get some professional help. I know there is a stigma against depression but there is help. I get that this profession is depressing at times, but with anything in life there are struggles and triumphs. It’s how we get past the struggles that define ya. There is so much in the horizon to explore outside of architecture.
Not much to add about depression, but regarding deadlines.....
One of the best things about having a kid is leaving at a specific time. If some dumbass PM suddenly remembers that they need something from me at 430 (an architectural emergency) that requires me to stay late w zero notice, they are SOL.
I have zero sympathy for poor planning on the part of others