I'm thinking about enrolling in MArch I programs in Fall 2018. Graduated in 2016 and currently working.
I've never interacted with grad school admissions in-person before. I've worked in admissions in undergrad, but from what my friends say grad school feels much more personal (professors personally calling/interacting with you; one of my friends didn't have to pay for his plane ride to check out a school etc.)
I'm going to my first open house even this Saturday. All the alums love this particular school. I've sent a few emails to admissions hoping to get connected to specific professors (that align with my interest) but I've only received "see you at open house!" from the first-line folks. Does this mean I'm not special? Wah.
Anyway- of course, I plan on taking notes on tuition, employment rate, special features etc. during Open House.
What are some other things to keep in mind? Do I network like crazy?
Thanks in advance!
Volunteer
Oct 27, 16 12:45 pm
Think of it as Saturday morning down at the new/used car dealers on the edge of town where all the dealers are running some kind of BS promotion. You are hiring them a lot more than they are admitting you.
raspberry_cat_
Oct 27, 16 1:39 pm
Volunteer -
Yeah, I should clarify, I'm not expecting to be treated specially this Saturday. I know I'm just part of a herd. Wanted to know if there's anything I can do more to take advantage of the situation.
Volunteer
Oct 27, 16 2:07 pm
They need you, or the flow-through of your federal loan funds to their paychecks, to keep their body and soul together. You do not need them at all to become a registered architect in fifteen states. So do the math: the costs of schooling, the loss of income while in school, the loan repayments, the deferred contributions to your 401Ka and IRAs during the years you are in school and the years following graduation when you are too poor to make them because you are paying off the educational loans.
In this environment the only degree worth going in debt for related to the industry would be a degree in Civil Engineering with a concentration in structures from an ABET-accredited school. If that means going back a getting a BS in CE you would still be better off. Just my two cents. You could still get experience toward an Architecture degree while working at a A&E firm if you are still interested.
In any case, best of luck!
raspberry_cat_
Oct 27, 16 2:15 pm
You think so?
You're not really answering the original question, but the general 'next (academic) step' is certainly what I've been thinking about. The schooling vs loss of income stuff. The BS in CE - I'll consider it.
Of course,I hope to be a strong enough candidate that I get scholarships offered, wherever I apply. :P
Since it's been mentioned, what *is* it like to get a second bachelor's? Have you done it?
DeTwan
Oct 27, 16 3:32 pm
You 'academically' missed the train on your first go around in college by not getting an accredited degree.
Secondly, I am highly doubtful that getting an March or 2nd Barch degree will propel you to some new higher pay range, if that is what you mean by loss of income.
Most ppl in architecture, especially young ppl with less than 5-10 year experience cap out at about $55-70k licensed and all. I'm sure their are exclusions, but...good luck.
Going back to school will only set you back in real world experience and pay raises that could happen during those years.
And licensure is not the golden key to success in architecture, it is a step, but doesnt get you much monetarily until you have your own successful architecture business.
There is much more 'off the bat' opportunities with an engineering degree compared to vesting more money & time into an architecture degree. If you do go back to school, get a degree that has some respect and value to employers.
raspberry_cat_
Oct 28, 16 10:37 am
Frankly compared to my unaccredited liberal arts degree, even the lower end of your proposed income bracket is attractive.
I've met with young architects in my area and enjoyed the studio environment. I've read the licensure process and it seems doable as a professional step. I'm interested in the field beyond the financial prospects.
I appreciate both of you being very frank with me regarding my future. Thank you for suggesting great alternatives.
I do have to ask - why the unanimous (so far) discouragement from getting into MArch I programs? Is it about me (e.g. no architectural background)? Or a general idea of the architecture field with out a bachelors? (re DeTwan: "respect and value to employers"?)
Please continue to be honest. My liberal arts degree had no access to architects so I'm learning it all on the fly.
DeTwan
Oct 28, 16 11:23 am
An architecture degree, be it an accredited Barch or March, is basically a glorified liberal arts degree. I think that is all I am trying to get at.
If I where you, I would try to either get a consistent set of art produced and get a 10'x10 tent, and get on zapplication.org and apply to shows.
Or
If you do decide to go back to school, get a degree that has some 'off the bat' opportunities. Which really means that becoming some magnanimous 'architect' is more or less a pipe dream, and that eventually youre going to have to wake up.
I would really do some research on the stability of the building industry and architecture, before you start creaming in your pants about what 'you' think architecture is. I would also look into and research more about what STEM jobs are and will continue to be in demand in the future.
raspberry_cat_
Oct 28, 16 12:05 pm
DeTwan -
Thanks for the suggestions, not so much the pedantic tone. ;)
DeTwan
Oct 28, 16 12:15 pm
Really look into being an artist if that is what you when to art school for.
Zapplications.org is the go-to website for applying to art shows, and you can always start small and do local shows until you get a grip on it all.
Btw, architecture has made me pedantic...sry.
Volunteer
Oct 28, 16 4:04 pm
You screwed the pooch with your choice of an undergraduate degree, which about 40 to 60 percent of undergraduates do, and now you are going to most likely screw the pooch again by throwing tons of money for a "master's' program in architecture. You will cripple yourself financially for life. Don't you ever wonder why schools don't offer a "catch-up" Bachelor's in Architecture for those students who already have one degree? Basically it is because graduate school tuition is not capped with regard to federal student loan amounts available and undergraduate programs are. That is the greed mentality on the part of colleges and universities you are dealing with here.
Annieebanana
Nov 5, 16 6:06 pm
Just want to chime in among the cynical opinions, which are heavily peppered throughout all archinect forums...and which no one ever asks for, and which don't ever answer the actual question that was asked.......
Anyways, idk what grad program your friends are in but architecture grad school definitely isn't as personal as many other fields. My friends in science fields are personally speaking with people and visiting them and discussing projects and blahblahblah, but arch school is not really like that :[
But that's ok, it's still really great! Talk to students, not just professors. Find out what background most of your future classmates are coming from, check out the studio desks, hang around the city and ask people what they do for fun. The location is really important since a lot of the time your studio sites and studies will be heavily influenced by the location your school is in. I don't think networking is that valuable since they are generally admitting a decent amount of people they don't have time to personally get to know and remember everybody. Having a contact, student or prof, that you can talk to and ask questions while applying would be helpful.
Also ignore everyone trying to discourage you because of financial reasons. There is a strongly opinionated group of people who don't think college is worth the money and due to their lack of ambition and fear of crippling debt, they will live a boring life and have nothing better to do than sit around on archinect and write cynical things ;) Getting a higher education is extremely valuable and many people can't do it and don't do it. I'm sending encouragement and positivity your way xx
good luck on your grad school search!
Peter Normand
Nov 6, 16 12:37 pm
Take a close look at the projects their studios do and ask yourself is this the kind of project I want to work on the next 2 years and have in my portfolio when I start looking for work. If you have a specific passion for one type of building or a general area of building design theory you need look for that in the student work. If the work is not what you would want to do better to put that school down at the bottom of the list. Graduate school is hard and if you are not ready to drink their brand of Kool-Aide you will have a very hard time, especially if it is a small program.
Hey everyone,
I'm thinking about enrolling in MArch I programs in Fall 2018. Graduated in 2016 and currently working.
I've never interacted with grad school admissions in-person before. I've worked in admissions in undergrad, but from what my friends say grad school feels much more personal (professors personally calling/interacting with you; one of my friends didn't have to pay for his plane ride to check out a school etc.)
I'm going to my first open house even this Saturday. All the alums love this particular school. I've sent a few emails to admissions hoping to get connected to specific professors (that align with my interest) but I've only received "see you at open house!" from the first-line folks. Does this mean I'm not special? Wah.
Anyway- of course, I plan on taking notes on tuition, employment rate, special features etc. during Open House.
What are some other things to keep in mind? Do I network like crazy?
Thanks in advance!
Think of it as Saturday morning down at the new/used car dealers on the edge of town where all the dealers are running some kind of BS promotion. You are hiring them a lot more than they are admitting you.
Volunteer -
Yeah, I should clarify, I'm not expecting to be treated specially this Saturday. I know I'm just part of a herd. Wanted to know if there's anything I can do more to take advantage of the situation.
They need you, or the flow-through of your federal loan funds to their paychecks, to keep their body and soul together. You do not need them at all to become a registered architect in fifteen states. So do the math: the costs of schooling, the loss of income while in school, the loan repayments, the deferred contributions to your 401Ka and IRAs during the years you are in school and the years following graduation when you are too poor to make them because you are paying off the educational loans.
In this environment the only degree worth going in debt for related to the industry would be a degree in Civil Engineering with a concentration in structures from an ABET-accredited school. If that means going back a getting a BS in CE you would still be better off. Just my two cents. You could still get experience toward an Architecture degree while working at a A&E firm if you are still interested.
In any case, best of luck!
You think so?
You're not really answering the original question, but the general 'next (academic) step' is certainly what I've been thinking about. The schooling vs loss of income stuff. The BS in CE - I'll consider it.
Of course,I hope to be a strong enough candidate that I get scholarships offered, wherever I apply. :P
Since it's been mentioned, what *is* it like to get a second bachelor's? Have you done it?
You 'academically' missed the train on your first go around in college by not getting an accredited degree.
Secondly, I am highly doubtful that getting an March or 2nd Barch degree will propel you to some new higher pay range, if that is what you mean by loss of income.
Most ppl in architecture, especially young ppl with less than 5-10 year experience cap out at about $55-70k licensed and all. I'm sure their are exclusions, but...good luck.
Going back to school will only set you back in real world experience and pay raises that could happen during those years.
And licensure is not the golden key to success in architecture, it is a step, but doesnt get you much monetarily until you have your own successful architecture business.
There is much more 'off the bat' opportunities with an engineering degree compared to vesting more money & time into an architecture degree. If you do go back to school, get a degree that has some respect and value to employers.
Frankly compared to my unaccredited liberal arts degree, even the lower end of your proposed income bracket is attractive.
I've met with young architects in my area and enjoyed the studio environment. I've read the licensure process and it seems doable as a professional step. I'm interested in the field beyond the financial prospects.
I appreciate both of you being very frank with me regarding my future. Thank you for suggesting great alternatives.
I do have to ask - why the unanimous (so far) discouragement from getting into MArch I programs? Is it about me (e.g. no architectural background)? Or a general idea of the architecture field with out a bachelors? (re DeTwan: "respect and value to employers"?)
Please continue to be honest. My liberal arts degree had no access to architects so I'm learning it all on the fly.
An architecture degree, be it an accredited Barch or March, is basically a glorified liberal arts degree. I think that is all I am trying to get at.
If I where you, I would try to either get a consistent set of art produced and get a 10'x10 tent, and get on zapplication.org and apply to shows.
Or
If you do decide to go back to school, get a degree that has some 'off the bat' opportunities. Which really means that becoming some magnanimous 'architect' is more or less a pipe dream, and that eventually youre going to have to wake up.
I would really do some research on the stability of the building industry and architecture, before you start creaming in your pants about what 'you' think architecture is. I would also look into and research more about what STEM jobs are and will continue to be in demand in the future.
DeTwan -
Thanks for the suggestions, not so much the pedantic tone. ;)
Really look into being an artist if that is what you when to art school for.
Zapplications.org is the go-to website for applying to art shows, and you can always start small and do local shows until you get a grip on it all.
Btw, architecture has made me pedantic...sry.
You screwed the pooch with your choice of an undergraduate degree, which about 40 to 60 percent of undergraduates do, and now you are going to most likely screw the pooch again by throwing tons of money for a "master's' program in architecture. You will cripple yourself financially for life. Don't you ever wonder why schools don't offer a "catch-up" Bachelor's in Architecture for those students who already have one degree? Basically it is because graduate school tuition is not capped with regard to federal student loan amounts available and undergraduate programs are. That is the greed mentality on the part of colleges and universities you are dealing with here.
Just want to chime in among the cynical opinions, which are heavily peppered throughout all archinect forums...and which no one ever asks for, and which don't ever answer the actual question that was asked.......
Anyways, idk what grad program your friends are in but architecture grad school definitely isn't as personal as many other fields. My friends in science fields are personally speaking with people and visiting them and discussing projects and blahblahblah, but arch school is not really like that :[
But that's ok, it's still really great! Talk to students, not just professors. Find out what background most of your future classmates are coming from, check out the studio desks, hang around the city and ask people what they do for fun. The location is really important since a lot of the time your studio sites and studies will be heavily influenced by the location your school is in. I don't think networking is that valuable since they are generally admitting a decent amount of people they don't have time to personally get to know and remember everybody. Having a contact, student or prof, that you can talk to and ask questions while applying would be helpful.
Also ignore everyone trying to discourage you because of financial reasons. There is a strongly opinionated group of people who don't think college is worth the money and due to their lack of ambition and fear of crippling debt, they will live a boring life and have nothing better to do than sit around on archinect and write cynical things ;) Getting a higher education is extremely valuable and many people can't do it and don't do it. I'm sending encouragement and positivity your way xx
good luck on your grad school search!
Take a close look at the projects their studios do and ask yourself is this the kind of project I want to work on the next 2 years and have in my portfolio when I start looking for work. If you have a specific passion for one type of building or a general area of building design theory you need look for that in the student work. If the work is not what you would want to do better to put that school down at the bottom of the list. Graduate school is hard and if you are not ready to drink their brand of Kool-Aide you will have a very hard time, especially if it is a small program.
Good luck
Peter N