I started a new job less than a year ago. I replaced an architect who has been at my current firm for about 15 years. When he found out that I was getting hired he quit the next day because he said our office was not big enough for two licensed architects and that there would be to many chiefs and not enough Indians. So, I was going to be the only architect in the office. There was already a designer at the firm and my boss hired another person who is a designer making a total of three people with me and not including the owner. After 5 months on the job my boss began controlling everything I did. I cant send out an email without asking him, I can't have any contact with clients, I can't coordinate design decisions with the other designers, basically I can't do my job as the only architect in the office. I talked to him one day after work because I was getting really frustrated and I didn't know how I was going to complete my work. He said that I didn't do anything wrong he just thinks that we have 4 architects in the office - me, the two designers and him (he's a structural engineer). He said I was just the only licensed architect. I basically have no involvement with projects at this point, he makes all the decisions and coordinates the work with the designers. I feel like I stepped into an alternate universe, this makes no sense to me. Anyone else experience this? Am I just looking at things wrong?
senjohnblutarsky
Sep 8, 16 1:34 pm
Next time a code analysis comes up, give it to him and tell him if he wants to play architect, go for it.
Just make sure it's a difficult analysis.
JimBob
Sep 8, 16 1:59 pm
that's the funny thing, he always tries to do them and gets frustrated when something goes wrong. He is selecting the colors for a building that is in construction right now, can you imagine, a 65 year old structural engineer selecting materials and colors for a building. I'm telling you, its really weird. He was complaining to me yesterday that he had to much to do. I just thought that if he wasn't trying to do my job also he would have time for his.
x intern
Sep 8, 16 2:58 pm
He's either afraid your going to steal his clients or you are in the way out. Either way not a good sign.
Non Sequitur
Sep 8, 16 3:11 pm
Where is this?
Where I practice, minimum 50% ownership by a registered architect is required to practice.
s=r*(theta)
Sep 8, 16 3:37 pm
^ What state / city is that?
no_form
Sep 8, 16 3:42 pm
At 65 years old he should be on his way out. Can you buy the company from him? Would you want it?
JimBob
Sep 8, 16 3:43 pm
In Missouri, our state requires that an architect be on the board of a corporation and is a "responsible in charge" if you are going to advertise architectural work. It doesn't have anything to do with ownership the way that I understand it. I signed a form stating that I was the responsible in charge but I get crapped on instead. My boss just got off the phone to a client and talked about a proposal that I wrote. He was trying to explain the code requirements for an unlimited area building and he totally butchered it. I think I'm going to have to quit before I lose it.
JimBob
Sep 8, 16 3:49 pm
The thing is that I have know him for about 13 years. He hired me with the promise of ownership when he retires. I think he was totally full of it. If he is going to move me into ownership I need to be involved now, clients have to know what the face of the company will be when he's gone. It is just so crazy and I cant understand it. I have been sitting here all day doing nothing while he is doing all my work. I think that maybe he doesn't want me here and is trying to get rid of me but I really don't think that is what is happening. He is really nice when he talks to me but he just wont let me do anything. I have led design teams around the US and internationally, I am competent at what I do. I would say that I am even talented at what I do. I have worked for large corporations on multimillion dollar projects. I can handle the work easily here but instead I sit and stare at the clock. Its the Twilight Zone
Non Sequitur
Sep 8, 16 3:54 pm
theta, I practice in Ontario. I believe all canadian practices follow this rule although I may be wrong.
Jim... so this old fart is running wild with your liabilities?
JimBob
Sep 8, 16 3:58 pm
Pretty much, he had a meeting with an owner a month ago and the two of them worked out the entire floor plan on a manufacturing facility. He come back and just tells me what to do as though I'm some kid out of school. I didn't even know the meeting was happening until he came back and told me about it. The other day he found out that the building configuration was wrong because of the equipment layout and he looked at me like it was my fault. I had no idea what was even going on, I just did what he told me which was all I knew to do. I guess if we get sued its on him and his insurance.
go do it
Sep 8, 16 4:18 pm
.
lacalr
Sep 8, 16 4:22 pm
I'm not sure what the architect before you was like but maybe he is used to babying people and treating them like just another entry level designer. You should have a right to give your opinion since as you stated you have a bunch of experience and knowledge.
Sounds like a pretty crumby situation... If you are in a position to give him an ultimatum I would do so (at least from an outsider perspective with nothing at stake..) Is it possible to tell him you demand more work and responsibility or else you'll leave his company?
JimBob
Sep 8, 16 4:30 pm
When I talked with him last I told him I couldn't work with him micromanaging everything I did. I basically told him this wouldn't work the way he is doing it and he told me he sees me no differently than the drafters in the office. He is the architect and that is the way its going to be. My only other choice is to leave. Depressing that I could even make it last a year. This is crazy, just wondering if anyone else ever went through this and what they did about it.
x-jla
Sep 8, 16 4:36 pm
Leave man. Not worth it. Some situations are beyond fixing.
chigurh
Sep 8, 16 6:43 pm
agree - your boss is a creep but only to the extent that he is taking advantage of an idiot that doesn't have enough backbone to stick up for yourself. All he needs you for is a stamp. You will never be partner, you will never move up. Sack up and value the professional status you acquired, don't let some asshole push you around for a paycheck. Leave now and hope that he doesn't throw you under the bus for some shoddy project you stamped on that had no e & o or liability insurance on.
gruen
Sep 8, 16 6:48 pm
If you have "responsible control" that means you have actual control. If you are stamping, you need control. You do not have control in this situation, so you need to leave, right away. Stop thinking about it and leave. Owning this firm isn't worth this type of liability. Run fast and far.
gruen
Sep 8, 16 6:50 pm
And, consult a lawyer about removing your stamp from any projects you've stamped.
Bloopox
Sep 8, 16 6:56 pm
You're on a slippery slope with stamping projects for which you're not truly able to exercise responsible control. The firm's insurance will likely cover civil suits related to the projects (though I'd review the policy if I were you) - but that insurance follows the firm, not you, so if you leave and later develop deep pockets it's not impossible for somebody to come after you. The bigger problem is that whether you stay or go the firm's insurance won't keep you from being sanctioned, or losing your license if your boss' screw ups lead to a set that's judged professionally incompetent, or if somebody (disgruntled client) reports you for stamping without responsible control. If serious enough financial loss or injury were to occur you could even face criminal fines and potential prison time for criminal negligence.
shellarchitect
Sep 8, 16 7:12 pm
Are you actually stamping projects or using his struct. Stamp? I think that is technically allowed in my neck of the woods
b3tadine[sutures]
Sep 8, 16 11:08 pm
I'm sorry, but there is nothing on this planet, nothing, that would make me stick this out, ever. I can't drink as heavily as I did when I was 12.
awaiting_deletion
Sep 8, 16 11:19 pm
for christ sake, you're humming Alice in Chains in the office, GTFO!
Non Sequitur
Sep 8, 16 11:28 pm
AIC for the office morale win
Down in a hole and they've put all the stones in their place I've eaten the sun so my tongue has been burned of the taste I have been guilty of kicking myself in the teeth I will speak no more of my feelings beneath
awaiting_deletion
Sep 8, 16 11:32 pm
JimBob, Alice in Chains hath spoke.
JimBob
Sep 9, 16 9:17 am
Thanks, for the last two comments about AIC, I needed a laugh as I start my crappy day. I appreciate all your advice, especially the stuff about liability. I know I have to do something, and I will. I have to come up with a good exit strategy, I have others depending on me too. The guy I work for is 5'-4" with squinty eyes. The guy that was here before called him Gollum. I think that a lot of it is that he is worried that he will lose control, and that he has short mans syndrome.
Wood Guy
Sep 9, 16 9:42 am
I witnessed a similar scenario at an office where I worked, and then moved into the top position myself and had it play out sort of similarly. Some people just aren't good at managing talented and/or motivated employees; all they know how to do is control "worker bees." I would get out and find a place where your skills and experience are valued. Or you could sit there and collect a paycheck, and don't take the boss's personality flaws personally.
Josh Mings
Sep 9, 16 9:57 am
Sounds like your pain is self chosen and you're drowning in a river of deceit.
If Lemmy weren't God, I'd nominate Layne Staley.
JimBob
Sep 9, 16 10:06 am
The last two comments were right on. I am very work oriented and I tend to take this stuff very seriously. I have a lot of respect for my profession and other architects. It is more than just hurt feelings, I have to do what's right professionally and what is happening is not professional. In the mean time though, I need to chill out and not let it affect me personally. Wood Guy described the situation really well, my boss is just not a good manager, he only knows how to red line stuff and give it drafters to draft. He doesn't know how to manage a person who is used to managing work also. I have a few things in the works right now and am waiting them out to see how things pan out. I know that there is no future here for me.
midlander
Sep 9, 16 11:08 am
how did you know him for 13 years and not notice what seems like a severe and dysfunctional personality disorder? obviously this is not a place you or anyone with dignity and freedom should remain at. hurry up and leave.
alternately, you could try having a good face to face all-out argument with this guy and see if you can get him to treat you like a fully capable professional. it would be therapeutic for you, and maybe even good for him.
i'm in a yelling mood today. recommend you try that option first. you can always quit later then.
JimBob
Sep 9, 16 12:31 pm
People are different when you just know them casually. When tensions rise and stress is high people act in ways that you don't see when your just bsing. Also, when ego are involved you don't see that side of people until their ego feels threatened. I think your right, I just need to get out as soon as possible which I am working on now.
curtkram
Sep 9, 16 12:46 pm
he is worried that he will lose control
get him to lose control. screw stuff up. throw a wrench in the mix. organized chaos. maybe once he sees it's not that bad, he'll lighten up. what have you got to lose? a job you're thinking of leaving anyway?
JimBob
Sep 9, 16 1:06 pm
I like that idea, I'm actually already doing it in a way subconsciously. The drafters are running rough shot over him. One of them is reading through the IECC to try and figure out how to do perimeter floor insulation. I can tell by the look on her face that it might as well be in Spanish. She is asking me about it and I tell her to ask the boss. His solution makes zero sense, no thermal break at all. He just wants to show some insulation below the slab, makes no sense. It makes me laugh in sad sort of way. If it was a life safety issue I would definitely put my foot down, but with the other stuff I'm letting him handle everything and when it blows up in his face he will either fire me or realize I have some value. Either way, he can kiss my ass.
shellarchitect
Sep 9, 16 1:19 pm
who's actually stamping the drawings?
I've heard of arch drawings being stamped by civil or struct engineers, but I've also heard of municipalities refusing to accept an engineers stamp in place on an arch.
shellarchitect
Sep 9, 16 1:20 pm
Its amazing to me that he's unaware of how much he doesn't know, esp. after doing code reviews or getting comments back from the building dept.
JimBob
Sep 9, 16 1:33 pm
An architect has to stamp the drawings by Mo law. He has actually been reprimanded twice by his board. Once for designing architectural work for a library and once for sealing a foundation drawing for a project that had no registered architect. That shows you his mentality, he thinks that every other discipline is useless but his.
Donna Sink
Sep 9, 16 6:49 pm
JimBob, seriously: if you are stamping drawings you need to leave this situation ASAP. Gruen and Bloopox are right. If there's a way to get your stamp removed do so - I've never heard of that but if possible go for it.
There should be plenty of jobs right now; mostly I'm hearing that firms are having trouble finding good people! Take your value elsewhere.
Also: short man syndrome is real. It sucks to be around.
awaiting_deletion
Sep 9, 16 8:07 pm
Yeah, they come to snuff the rooster
Yeah here come the rooster, yeah
You know he ain't gonna die
No, no, no, you know he ain't gonna die
archanonymous
Sep 9, 16 9:28 pm
also, obviously don't stamp anything else. I would take your stamp home from the office too. hell i would take any drawing sets i've stamped that hadn't gone out the door. just walk out.
sausages
Sep 12, 16 8:04 am
do we work at the same place? lol
JimBob
Sep 12, 16 8:51 am
Are you having similar problems sausages? How are you handling it?
curtkram
Sep 12, 16 9:30 am
where in missouri? are you in springfield?
sausages
Sep 12, 16 10:03 am
JimBob, I am indeed, though I am just a draftsman essentially. I am maintaining with the architect I work under. We are both in a very similar situation, albeit it seems with a more understanding boss. We work under engineers as well.
JimBob
Sep 12, 16 10:16 am
Not in Springfield, I don't want to be too descriptive in case someone here knows my boss. I am in the St. Louis area.
I started a new job less than a year ago. I replaced an architect who has been at my current firm for about 15 years. When he found out that I was getting hired he quit the next day because he said our office was not big enough for two licensed architects and that there would be to many chiefs and not enough Indians. So, I was going to be the only architect in the office. There was already a designer at the firm and my boss hired another person who is a designer making a total of three people with me and not including the owner. After 5 months on the job my boss began controlling everything I did. I cant send out an email without asking him, I can't have any contact with clients, I can't coordinate design decisions with the other designers, basically I can't do my job as the only architect in the office. I talked to him one day after work because I was getting really frustrated and I didn't know how I was going to complete my work. He said that I didn't do anything wrong he just thinks that we have 4 architects in the office - me, the two designers and him (he's a structural engineer). He said I was just the only licensed architect. I basically have no involvement with projects at this point, he makes all the decisions and coordinates the work with the designers. I feel like I stepped into an alternate universe, this makes no sense to me. Anyone else experience this? Am I just looking at things wrong?
Next time a code analysis comes up, give it to him and tell him if he wants to play architect, go for it.
Just make sure it's a difficult analysis.
that's the funny thing, he always tries to do them and gets frustrated when something goes wrong. He is selecting the colors for a building that is in construction right now, can you imagine, a 65 year old structural engineer selecting materials and colors for a building. I'm telling you, its really weird. He was complaining to me yesterday that he had to much to do. I just thought that if he wasn't trying to do my job also he would have time for his.
He's either afraid your going to steal his clients or you are in the way out. Either way not a good sign.
Where is this?
Where I practice, minimum 50% ownership by a registered architect is required to practice.
^ What state / city is that?
At 65 years old he should be on his way out. Can you buy the company from him? Would you want it?
In Missouri, our state requires that an architect be on the board of a corporation and is a "responsible in charge" if you are going to advertise architectural work. It doesn't have anything to do with ownership the way that I understand it. I signed a form stating that I was the responsible in charge but I get crapped on instead. My boss just got off the phone to a client and talked about a proposal that I wrote. He was trying to explain the code requirements for an unlimited area building and he totally butchered it. I think I'm going to have to quit before I lose it.
The thing is that I have know him for about 13 years. He hired me with the promise of ownership when he retires. I think he was totally full of it. If he is going to move me into ownership I need to be involved now, clients have to know what the face of the company will be when he's gone. It is just so crazy and I cant understand it. I have been sitting here all day doing nothing while he is doing all my work. I think that maybe he doesn't want me here and is trying to get rid of me but I really don't think that is what is happening. He is really nice when he talks to me but he just wont let me do anything. I have led design teams around the US and internationally, I am competent at what I do. I would say that I am even talented at what I do. I have worked for large corporations on multimillion dollar projects. I can handle the work easily here but instead I sit and stare at the clock. Its the Twilight Zone
theta, I practice in Ontario. I believe all canadian practices follow this rule although I may be wrong.
Jim... so this old fart is running wild with your liabilities?
Pretty much, he had a meeting with an owner a month ago and the two of them worked out the entire floor plan on a manufacturing facility. He come back and just tells me what to do as though I'm some kid out of school. I didn't even know the meeting was happening until he came back and told me about it. The other day he found out that the building configuration was wrong because of the equipment layout and he looked at me like it was my fault. I had no idea what was even going on, I just did what he told me which was all I knew to do. I guess if we get sued its on him and his insurance.
.
I'm not sure what the architect before you was like but maybe he is used to babying people and treating them like just another entry level designer. You should have a right to give your opinion since as you stated you have a bunch of experience and knowledge.
Sounds like a pretty crumby situation... If you are in a position to give him an ultimatum I would do so (at least from an outsider perspective with nothing at stake..) Is it possible to tell him you demand more work and responsibility or else you'll leave his company?
When I talked with him last I told him I couldn't work with him micromanaging everything I did. I basically told him this wouldn't work the way he is doing it and he told me he sees me no differently than the drafters in the office. He is the architect and that is the way its going to be. My only other choice is to leave. Depressing that I could even make it last a year. This is crazy, just wondering if anyone else ever went through this and what they did about it.
Leave man. Not worth it. Some situations are beyond fixing.
agree - your boss is a creep but only to the extent that he is taking advantage of an idiot that doesn't have enough backbone to stick up for yourself. All he needs you for is a stamp. You will never be partner, you will never move up. Sack up and value the professional status you acquired, don't let some asshole push you around for a paycheck. Leave now and hope that he doesn't throw you under the bus for some shoddy project you stamped on that had no e & o or liability insurance on.
If you have "responsible control" that means you have actual control. If you are stamping, you need control. You do not have control in this situation, so you need to leave, right away. Stop thinking about it and leave. Owning this firm isn't worth this type of liability. Run fast and far.
And, consult a lawyer about removing your stamp from any projects you've stamped.
You're on a slippery slope with stamping projects for which you're not truly able to exercise responsible control. The firm's insurance will likely cover civil suits related to the projects (though I'd review the policy if I were you) - but that insurance follows the firm, not you, so if you leave and later develop deep pockets it's not impossible for somebody to come after you. The bigger problem is that whether you stay or go the firm's insurance won't keep you from being sanctioned, or losing your license if your boss' screw ups lead to a set that's judged professionally incompetent, or if somebody (disgruntled client) reports you for stamping without responsible control. If serious enough financial loss or injury were to occur you could even face criminal fines and potential prison time for criminal negligence.
Are you actually stamping projects or using his struct. Stamp? I think that is technically allowed in my neck of the woods
I'm sorry, but there is nothing on this planet, nothing, that would make me stick this out, ever. I can't drink as heavily as I did when I was 12.
for christ sake, you're humming Alice in Chains in the office, GTFO!
AIC for the office morale win
Down in a hole and they've put all the stones in their place
I've eaten the sun so my tongue has been burned of the taste
I have been guilty of kicking myself in the teeth
I will speak no more of my feelings beneath
JimBob, Alice in Chains hath spoke.
Thanks, for the last two comments about AIC, I needed a laugh as I start my crappy day. I appreciate all your advice, especially the stuff about liability. I know I have to do something, and I will. I have to come up with a good exit strategy, I have others depending on me too. The guy I work for is 5'-4" with squinty eyes. The guy that was here before called him Gollum. I think that a lot of it is that he is worried that he will lose control, and that he has short mans syndrome.
I witnessed a similar scenario at an office where I worked, and then moved into the top position myself and had it play out sort of similarly. Some people just aren't good at managing talented and/or motivated employees; all they know how to do is control "worker bees." I would get out and find a place where your skills and experience are valued. Or you could sit there and collect a paycheck, and don't take the boss's personality flaws personally.
Sounds like your pain is self chosen and you're drowning in a river of deceit.
If Lemmy weren't God, I'd nominate Layne Staley.
The last two comments were right on. I am very work oriented and I tend to take this stuff very seriously. I have a lot of respect for my profession and other architects. It is more than just hurt feelings, I have to do what's right professionally and what is happening is not professional. In the mean time though, I need to chill out and not let it affect me personally. Wood Guy described the situation really well, my boss is just not a good manager, he only knows how to red line stuff and give it drafters to draft. He doesn't know how to manage a person who is used to managing work also. I have a few things in the works right now and am waiting them out to see how things pan out. I know that there is no future here for me.
how did you know him for 13 years and not notice what seems like a severe and dysfunctional personality disorder? obviously this is not a place you or anyone with dignity and freedom should remain at. hurry up and leave.
alternately, you could try having a good face to face all-out argument with this guy and see if you can get him to treat you like a fully capable professional. it would be therapeutic for you, and maybe even good for him.
i'm in a yelling mood today. recommend you try that option first. you can always quit later then.
People are different when you just know them casually. When tensions rise and stress is high people act in ways that you don't see when your just bsing. Also, when ego are involved you don't see that side of people until their ego feels threatened. I think your right, I just need to get out as soon as possible which I am working on now.
he is worried that he will lose control
get him to lose control. screw stuff up. throw a wrench in the mix. organized chaos. maybe once he sees it's not that bad, he'll lighten up. what have you got to lose? a job you're thinking of leaving anyway?
I like that idea, I'm actually already doing it in a way subconsciously. The drafters are running rough shot over him. One of them is reading through the IECC to try and figure out how to do perimeter floor insulation. I can tell by the look on her face that it might as well be in Spanish. She is asking me about it and I tell her to ask the boss. His solution makes zero sense, no thermal break at all. He just wants to show some insulation below the slab, makes no sense. It makes me laugh in sad sort of way. If it was a life safety issue I would definitely put my foot down, but with the other stuff I'm letting him handle everything and when it blows up in his face he will either fire me or realize I have some value. Either way, he can kiss my ass.
who's actually stamping the drawings?
I've heard of arch drawings being stamped by civil or struct engineers, but I've also heard of municipalities refusing to accept an engineers stamp in place on an arch.
Its amazing to me that he's unaware of how much he doesn't know, esp. after doing code reviews or getting comments back from the building dept.
An architect has to stamp the drawings by Mo law. He has actually been reprimanded twice by his board. Once for designing architectural work for a library and once for sealing a foundation drawing for a project that had no registered architect. That shows you his mentality, he thinks that every other discipline is useless but his.
JimBob, seriously: if you are stamping drawings you need to leave this situation ASAP. Gruen and Bloopox are right. If there's a way to get your stamp removed do so - I've never heard of that but if possible go for it.
There should be plenty of jobs right now; mostly I'm hearing that firms are having trouble finding good people! Take your value elsewhere.
Also: short man syndrome is real. It sucks to be around.
Yeah, they come to snuff the rooster Yeah here come the rooster, yeah You know he ain't gonna die No, no, no, you know he ain't gonna die
also, obviously don't stamp anything else. I would take your stamp home from the office too. hell i would take any drawing sets i've stamped that hadn't gone out the door. just walk out.
do we work at the same place? lol
Are you having similar problems sausages? How are you handling it?
where in missouri? are you in springfield?
JimBob, I am indeed, though I am just a draftsman essentially. I am maintaining with the architect I work under. We are both in a very similar situation, albeit it seems with a more understanding boss. We work under engineers as well.
Not in Springfield, I don't want to be too descriptive in case someone here knows my boss. I am in the St. Louis area.