I've been in this discussion with the owners of the firm I work for, and we cannot seem to agree. I am licensed in a few states (and working on getting more..$$$) and directly oversee/do all the work for the projects in those states. It is their belief that all US states require firm ownership to sign/seal, but I've only ever heard of one...maybe two. And I don't know how true it is as I cannot find statutes saying ownership is a requirement on those state boards websites (OK and NJ)
Does anyone know if firm ownership is required in the states they work in?
poop876
Jul 29, 16 11:35 am
Some state yes! Ran into that few times (Nebraska most recently), and even had to have a registered company in the state.
Bigger things you should look into is your liability and professional insurance.
JeromeS
Jul 29, 16 12:38 pm
So what's the problem? They owe you an ownership stake. Why would you want to proceed otherwise?
Donna Sink
Jul 29, 16 12:48 pm
Jerome I don't think that's the question the OP is asking.
I know it varies state to state, and we are discussing this in Indiana right now as there is some confusion in our current regulations around professional practice. Some states require a specific percentage of firm owners to be licensed if the firm is offering professional services. Some require shareholders to be licensed, but not partners, some require at least one partner to be a licensed professional...it really varies state to state.
gruen
Jul 29, 16 1:22 pm
What Donna said. Also-can you be (for example) a Nebraska LLP and do projects in NY without being a foreign corp in NY?
shellarchitect
Jul 29, 16 1:29 pm
I think there are 2 questions here, the first is if the firm is licensed to practice architecture, for that in Michigan, i think the law says 50% owned by design professions, which includes surveyors and engineers. The second is if you can stamp, w/o being a firm owner. I assume that if 1 is true the 2nd is as well.
How are you doing work in these states at the moment? I assume you are angling for an ownership stake?
nicholass817
Jul 29, 16 2:45 pm
Thanks everyone!!
To clarify a bit, our firm has 4 principles(owners) all licensed in TX....2 of them carry NCARB certification with a mix of state licenses, but only one of them ever signs our out-of-state drawings. This becomes a problem when it takes a month to get him to sit down and review work and actually sign. I can sign/seal in some instances, but they get their panties in a twist every time I mention it.
Not angling for ownership yet....they are all near national retirement age though...but nowhere near architect retirement age....FML.
3tk
Jul 29, 16 5:00 pm
per shuellmi:
It depends on the state as to how a firm is registered with the state to practice in the state (for example in the state of NY, the firm must be registered with the Department of State and the Education Department with particular requirements). Clearly the firm will have to meet the aforementioned requirements to become a legal entity within that state.
Those laws will also determine if you as an employee can stamp a drawing on the entity's behalf. Presumably the firm is carrying insurance that covers your seal? And, of course, you're aware of the legal obligations you have within the period of statute of limitations on the material that bears your seal and signature?
Typically the partners that are most versed in a state's code, laws and is insured signs and seals the drawings (they may delegate preliminary review, but they are the final reviewer) - they are paid to do so and bear the responsibility of being legally responsible for the work.
nicholass817
Jul 29, 16 5:37 pm
I totally get that each state dictates if a non-owner can sign/seal, and am really only looking for experiences of Archinecters in the various states.
The NYS example goes well beyond what I am asking about. But if the firm does meet all the NYS requirements would any employee licensed in NYS be able to sign/seal for the firm? Or, would they be required to have ownership in the firm? If so, majority ownership? Or, minimum percentage?
The PLI for the firm covers all of us in all states we are licensed.
The trouble I'm having is that the partners are versed in the laws....as they were written when they obtained licensure. (ex. Demanding we emboss all drawings for FL projects even though it is no longer a requirement).
3tk
Aug 1, 16 11:28 am
As I understand it, as long as the firm entity is legally registered, anyone within that entity can seal in NYS. Note that within NYC, the DOB has a bit more control than state (at the moment they can actually take away your right as a licensed professional w/o going through the state).
I suppose the main issue is to make sure you are contractually protected from litigation as an individual within the contract, especially if you ever plan on leaving the firm while the statute of limitations holds you liable to a project.
Issues of laws and which ones the partners follows may be something the insurance company ought to be covering (we always had annual 'updates' from our insurance company to lower our premiums). If it's something that costs time like embossing, it's something you can bring up (but they would probably feel better if the corporate counsel is there to back it up).
JeromeS
Aug 1, 16 6:30 pm
As I understand it, as long as the firm entity is legally registered, anyone within that entity can seal in NYS. Note that within NYC, the DOB has a bit more control than state (at the moment they can actually take away your right as a licensed professional w/o going through the state)
Additionally- from the Office of Professions website
For PSCs authorized under Article 15A (foreign PSCs) only the individual actually providing the professional service must be licensed in New York State, although, all officers, directors and shareholders must be licensed in some jurisdiction.
Where foreign PSCs come in:
§ 1526. Rendering of professional service. (a) No foreign professional service corporation may render professional services in this state except through individuals authorized by law to render such professional services as individuals in this state.
Essentially your firm may practice in the State, piggybacking on the individually licensed architect who is solely and personally liable, via other section of the FSC law.
I've been in this discussion with the owners of the firm I work for, and we cannot seem to agree. I am licensed in a few states (and working on getting more..$$$) and directly oversee/do all the work for the projects in those states. It is their belief that all US states require firm ownership to sign/seal, but I've only ever heard of one...maybe two. And I don't know how true it is as I cannot find statutes saying ownership is a requirement on those state boards websites (OK and NJ)
Does anyone know if firm ownership is required in the states they work in?
Some state yes! Ran into that few times (Nebraska most recently), and even had to have a registered company in the state.
Bigger things you should look into is your liability and professional insurance.
So what's the problem? They owe you an ownership stake. Why would you want to proceed otherwise?
Jerome I don't think that's the question the OP is asking.
I know it varies state to state, and we are discussing this in Indiana right now as there is some confusion in our current regulations around professional practice. Some states require a specific percentage of firm owners to be licensed if the firm is offering professional services. Some require shareholders to be licensed, but not partners, some require at least one partner to be a licensed professional...it really varies state to state.
What Donna said. Also-can you be (for example) a Nebraska LLP and do projects in NY without being a foreign corp in NY?
I think there are 2 questions here, the first is if the firm is licensed to practice architecture, for that in Michigan, i think the law says 50% owned by design professions, which includes surveyors and engineers. The second is if you can stamp, w/o being a firm owner. I assume that if 1 is true the 2nd is as well.
How are you doing work in these states at the moment? I assume you are angling for an ownership stake?
Thanks everyone!!
To clarify a bit, our firm has 4 principles(owners) all licensed in TX....2 of them carry NCARB certification with a mix of state licenses, but only one of them ever signs our out-of-state drawings. This becomes a problem when it takes a month to get him to sit down and review work and actually sign. I can sign/seal in some instances, but they get their panties in a twist every time I mention it.
Not angling for ownership yet....they are all near national retirement age though...but nowhere near architect retirement age....FML.
per shuellmi:
It depends on the state as to how a firm is registered with the state to practice in the state (for example in the state of NY, the firm must be registered with the Department of State and the Education Department with particular requirements). Clearly the firm will have to meet the aforementioned requirements to become a legal entity within that state.
Those laws will also determine if you as an employee can stamp a drawing on the entity's behalf. Presumably the firm is carrying insurance that covers your seal? And, of course, you're aware of the legal obligations you have within the period of statute of limitations on the material that bears your seal and signature?
Typically the partners that are most versed in a state's code, laws and is insured signs and seals the drawings (they may delegate preliminary review, but they are the final reviewer) - they are paid to do so and bear the responsibility of being legally responsible for the work.
I totally get that each state dictates if a non-owner can sign/seal, and am really only looking for experiences of Archinecters in the various states.
The NYS example goes well beyond what I am asking about. But if the firm does meet all the NYS requirements would any employee licensed in NYS be able to sign/seal for the firm? Or, would they be required to have ownership in the firm? If so, majority ownership? Or, minimum percentage?
The PLI for the firm covers all of us in all states we are licensed.
The trouble I'm having is that the partners are versed in the laws....as they were written when they obtained licensure. (ex. Demanding we emboss all drawings for FL projects even though it is no longer a requirement).
As I understand it, as long as the firm entity is legally registered, anyone within that entity can seal in NYS. Note that within NYC, the DOB has a bit more control than state (at the moment they can actually take away your right as a licensed professional w/o going through the state).
I suppose the main issue is to make sure you are contractually protected from litigation as an individual within the contract, especially if you ever plan on leaving the firm while the statute of limitations holds you liable to a project.
Issues of laws and which ones the partners follows may be something the insurance company ought to be covering (we always had annual 'updates' from our insurance company to lower our premiums). If it's something that costs time like embossing, it's something you can bring up (but they would probably feel better if the corporate counsel is there to back it up).
As I understand it, as long as the firm entity is legally registered, anyone within that entity can seal in NYS. Note that within NYC, the DOB has a bit more control than state (at the moment they can actually take away your right as a licensed professional w/o going through the state)
Additionally- from the Office of Professions website
Where foreign PSCs come in:
§ 1526. Rendering of professional service. (a) No foreign professional service corporation may render professional services in this state except through individuals authorized by law to render such professional services as individuals in this state.
Essentially your firm may practice in the State, piggybacking on the individually licensed architect who is solely and personally liable, via other section of the FSC law.