I'm an Architect with a staff of 2 other Architects. We with Autocad for all our construction documents. We do alot of 3D modeling in sketchup, probably for about 75% of our projects. We do about 12 to 15 projects a year, almost all new construction.
I was hoping to hear how some other firms in similar situations have dealt with smoothing out the transition. Would love to see what kind of problems you had, how you solved them and if there are any other resources I can explore.
Thanks!
xx__
Jun 10, 16 4:11 am
You'll need to hire someone new who knows what he's doing.
Zbig
Jun 10, 16 7:50 am
What xx___ said is right. You need someone with Revit experience. Revit requires a different mindset. You will get to points in the design that you know what you need to do, but don't know how to get there. Someone with experience might be able to help. You will be googling a lot for solutions to simple issues.
Your first Revit project should be something that you do a lot already so you don't have to solve too many design issues while you are trying to learn Revit.
You should also consider having your first Revit project as a hybrid: some work on Revit, other parts on AutoCAD, especially if you already have a lot of typical details on AutoCAD.
Try to start with a project where the schedule is stretched out comfortably.
Revit projects tend to be more front-loaded. There is more work to be done in SD and DD, and less in CDs. Many decisions that normally get made later will be made earlier. Make sure that your fees are also front-loaded, so if the project gets stopped, you are not in the hole.
archanonymous
Jun 10, 16 8:02 am
If you are starting from scratch, go with ArchiCAD.
bundy
Jun 10, 16 10:14 am
"If you are starting from scratch, go with ArchiCAD"
This. ArchiCad is much easier to learn and use. Revit is a clunky, bloated beast of software. I had people using it for 3 years who never "got" it. They fly on ArchiCad.
urbanity
Jun 10, 16 10:26 am
archicad!
Josh Mings
Jun 10, 16 10:34 am
ArchiCAD is pretty great. I've been using it for 4 years. There are moments where I think "Dammit, this is so much faster in Revit"...but that's mainly when using stairmaker.
null pointer
Jun 10, 16 10:44 am
Motherfucking autonomy and metrics.
You're going to spend a lot of time watching Revit videos on youtube, and things that don't look outright productive, especially at first. Your staff will be the doing the same. Your SD time is going to be horrible. You're going to resort to hand drawings for all of the conceptual phase deliverables because you're too busy setting up standards that you don't want to show to a client. You're probably going to want to abandon Revit during SD. Your metrics will tell you you're losing money. Then CDs will come around and you'll spend 1/2 the time you were used to spending on them. You'll make a bucketload of cash at that point.
My experience as a 1.75-man shop:
I ran a 300 sf renovation in CAD, while also running a 400 sf reno in revit. Hit my hourly cap on the dot for the 300 sf reno. Had days of unbilled time (read: profit on a flat fee) for the 400 sf reno.
GabrielleBovard
Mar 2, 17 7:15 pm
YES to this! Revit has a lot of up-front time and investment, but once your model is in place, all the changes and documentation are automatically updated for every little change that your client will request. Just remember that when you are chasing around your schedules and linework in AutoCAD!
chigurh
Jun 10, 16 11:14 am
Whatever you do don't start a project in revit and back out half way through (back to CAD). You have to make it all the way through that shitty learning curve one time to figure it out.
TIQM
Jun 10, 16 11:25 am
We have used ArchiCAD for about five years.
Have someone with experience help you establish standard project templates and layering standards. Also, establish office standards for "level of completeness" of the model for various types of projects, and for different phases. You can't underestimate how many extra hours can be burned modeling things that don't need to be modeled.
Make sure your staff understands that, as compelling as the BIM model seems to them, it is not the deliverable. The deliverable is a set of 2D documents. No matter how cool the model looks, it's not of tremendous value if you can't get clear, decent looking documents out of it.
bundy
Jun 10, 16 11:29 am
"You have to make it all the way through that shitty learning curve one time to figure it out"
For some people they will never be proficient at it. Revit simply demands to much abstract thought to and computer skill for most people. I personally like Revi, but Im very mechanical and computer savy while a lot of talented designers I employ just dont think like a computer program. Revit forces people to suspend their normal way of thinking and try to find tricks to make what they want to do happen I spent more time cleaning up models for my staff who just simply didn't do stuff because they spent half a day trying to figure out how to make base go around wall openings or why their foundation elevation targets disappear if they edit a wall so they end up doing the same task 10 -15 times in the course of a single project....all the BS went away when we switched them to ArchiCad. My advice is if your going to plunge into Revit, you need Revit people. If your looking to keep your current staff ArchiCad is easier, safe and does everything you need to do on a day to day basis.
bundy
Jun 10, 16 11:29 am
Oh - and did anyone mention the absurd cost of Revit package? Extortion. I work for my clients, not Autodesk shareholders.
archanonymous
Jun 10, 16 12:03 pm
also Rhino >>> ArchiCAD is a helluva good workflow for small shops and can let you seamlessly transition from Concept and Schematic to DD and CD.
Also, yes, you're not paying $5000+ every other year for Revit.
Also, the Revit (and AutoCAD) software kernel is shit. so outdated an inflexible, and generally a performance hog - so you end up needing to buy more expensive machines to run it on.
null pointer
Jun 10, 16 12:52 pm
$2.75k a year is not a huge amount of money.
If you're bitching about that, you need to get your house in order. If you're not saving 30 hours a week in bitchwork using revit, you're doing it wrong.
Because of revit, I've been able to take on some pretty huge jobs (500k sf or more) with minimal staff. Complaining about the price tag just shows how shitty you are at running your own office.
null pointer
Jun 10, 16 12:56 pm
Also, go with ArchiCAD if you're never going to go really big.
I've had multiple clients request a Revit model as part of the scope of work. We clean up our models when distributing them; We don't share our standards, we spent too much time making those.
If we weren't using Revit, we'd have been forced into it by clients.
archanonymous
Jun 10, 16 3:09 pm
null, the lower fees for ArchiCAD are just the cherry on top.
The fact that it isn't a steaming pile of shit (like Revit) is the main course.
export from ArchiCAD as IFC... one could argue if facilities management (or whoever on the client side) is requesting proprietary models and not IFC format, they are doing it wrong.
bundy
Jun 10, 16 7:01 pm
Excuse me Null, I didnt realize your so "Big Time", being an asshole hasnt stopped you from big time success I see. Unless of course your bullshitting us, 500K SF is massive and I doubt someone with your attitude would be competent enough to manage that. Unless its a 500K SF warehouse so then I tip my hat to your continued domination of the industry and chat forums.
null pointer
Jun 10, 16 7:22 pm
u mad bro?
ArchNyen
Jun 11, 16 9:34 am
Why did you get him all mad bro
null pointer
Jun 11, 16 10:42 am
I liek it yo. Watch me get a good one in:
Bundy: Charges 45/hour and then complains about the cost revit. Real fucking pro right there.
urbanity
Jun 11, 16 11:09 am
I use Archicad for large scale mfr and mixed-use projects. Teamwork allows the flexibility to work with consultants from any location.
Archicad is far superior to Revit, it is certainly more intuitive and user-friendly. Revit requires a steeper investment in hardware along with the exorbitant program costs.
Why waste resources on an inferior product, and then deal with the shortcomings of the product? Those $ can be used for so many other items necessary to run your biz.
archiwutm8
Jun 11, 16 7:58 pm
Hire a professional accredited autodesk training centre to train you for a few days.
Start a project you've already done in AutoCAD in revit and try to finish it.
Hire a bim consultant to help build your template and help out all your technical enquiries. Start small.
I used to train revit and I'm still learning new stuff.
smithgroupla
Jun 12, 16 3:10 pm
Wow, lots of feedback ... and some bickering, haha, but all around aloooot of good info. I didn't even consider ArchiCAD. Now I've got to start another forum titled ArchiCAD vs. Revit and see what happens there.
As for switching to BIM, it seems as though I should be looking for someone to add to our team if I'm going to switch to Revit and probably do it on my own if I move forward with ArchiCAD. Not very comfortable making the switch either way but I gotta do it.
Any good ArchiCAD tutorial youtube libraries?
Any good Revit tutorial youtube playlists you recommend?
parkerd
Jun 15, 16 12:24 pm
I'd be interested in hearing thoughts on ArchiCAD vs. Revit.
I'm an Architect with a staff of 2 other Architects. We with Autocad for all our construction documents. We do alot of 3D modeling in sketchup, probably for about 75% of our projects. We do about 12 to 15 projects a year, almost all new construction.
I was hoping to hear how some other firms in similar situations have dealt with smoothing out the transition. Would love to see what kind of problems you had, how you solved them and if there are any other resources I can explore.
Thanks!
You'll need to hire someone new who knows what he's doing.
What xx___ said is right. You need someone with Revit experience. Revit requires a different mindset. You will get to points in the design that you know what you need to do, but don't know how to get there. Someone with experience might be able to help. You will be googling a lot for solutions to simple issues.
Your first Revit project should be something that you do a lot already so you don't have to solve too many design issues while you are trying to learn Revit.
You should also consider having your first Revit project as a hybrid: some work on Revit, other parts on AutoCAD, especially if you already have a lot of typical details on AutoCAD.
Try to start with a project where the schedule is stretched out comfortably.
Revit projects tend to be more front-loaded. There is more work to be done in SD and DD, and less in CDs. Many decisions that normally get made later will be made earlier. Make sure that your fees are also front-loaded, so if the project gets stopped, you are not in the hole.
If you are starting from scratch, go with ArchiCAD.
"If you are starting from scratch, go with ArchiCAD"
This. ArchiCad is much easier to learn and use. Revit is a clunky, bloated beast of software. I had people using it for 3 years who never "got" it. They fly on ArchiCad.
archicad!
ArchiCAD is pretty great. I've been using it for 4 years. There are moments where I think "Dammit, this is so much faster in Revit"...but that's mainly when using stairmaker.
Motherfucking autonomy and metrics.
You're going to spend a lot of time watching Revit videos on youtube, and things that don't look outright productive, especially at first. Your staff will be the doing the same. Your SD time is going to be horrible. You're going to resort to hand drawings for all of the conceptual phase deliverables because you're too busy setting up standards that you don't want to show to a client. You're probably going to want to abandon Revit during SD. Your metrics will tell you you're losing money. Then CDs will come around and you'll spend 1/2 the time you were used to spending on them. You'll make a bucketload of cash at that point.
My experience as a 1.75-man shop:
I ran a 300 sf renovation in CAD, while also running a 400 sf reno in revit. Hit my hourly cap on the dot for the 300 sf reno. Had days of unbilled time (read: profit on a flat fee) for the 400 sf reno.
YES to this! Revit has a lot of up-front time and investment, but once your model is in place, all the changes and documentation are automatically updated for every little change that your client will request. Just remember that when you are chasing around your schedules and linework in AutoCAD!
Whatever you do don't start a project in revit and back out half way through (back to CAD). You have to make it all the way through that shitty learning curve one time to figure it out.
We have used ArchiCAD for about five years.
Have someone with experience help you establish standard project templates and layering standards. Also, establish office standards for "level of completeness" of the model for various types of projects, and for different phases. You can't underestimate how many extra hours can be burned modeling things that don't need to be modeled.
Make sure your staff understands that, as compelling as the BIM model seems to them, it is not the deliverable. The deliverable is a set of 2D documents. No matter how cool the model looks, it's not of tremendous value if you can't get clear, decent looking documents out of it.
"You have to make it all the way through that shitty learning curve one time to figure it out"
For some people they will never be proficient at it. Revit simply demands to much abstract thought to and computer skill for most people. I personally like Revi, but Im very mechanical and computer savy while a lot of talented designers I employ just dont think like a computer program. Revit forces people to suspend their normal way of thinking and try to find tricks to make what they want to do happen I spent more time cleaning up models for my staff who just simply didn't do stuff because they spent half a day trying to figure out how to make base go around wall openings or why their foundation elevation targets disappear if they edit a wall so they end up doing the same task 10 -15 times in the course of a single project....all the BS went away when we switched them to ArchiCad. My advice is if your going to plunge into Revit, you need Revit people. If your looking to keep your current staff ArchiCad is easier, safe and does everything you need to do on a day to day basis.
Oh - and did anyone mention the absurd cost of Revit package? Extortion. I work for my clients, not Autodesk shareholders.
also Rhino >>> ArchiCAD is a helluva good workflow for small shops and can let you seamlessly transition from Concept and Schematic to DD and CD.
Also, yes, you're not paying $5000+ every other year for Revit.
Also, the Revit (and AutoCAD) software kernel is shit. so outdated an inflexible, and generally a performance hog - so you end up needing to buy more expensive machines to run it on.
$2.75k a year is not a huge amount of money.
If you're bitching about that, you need to get your house in order. If you're not saving 30 hours a week in bitchwork using revit, you're doing it wrong.
Because of revit, I've been able to take on some pretty huge jobs (500k sf or more) with minimal staff. Complaining about the price tag just shows how shitty you are at running your own office.
Also, go with ArchiCAD if you're never going to go really big.
I've had multiple clients request a Revit model as part of the scope of work. We clean up our models when distributing them; We don't share our standards, we spent too much time making those.
If we weren't using Revit, we'd have been forced into it by clients.
null, the lower fees for ArchiCAD are just the cherry on top.
The fact that it isn't a steaming pile of shit (like Revit) is the main course.
export from ArchiCAD as IFC... one could argue if facilities management (or whoever on the client side) is requesting proprietary models and not IFC format, they are doing it wrong.
Excuse me Null, I didnt realize your so "Big Time", being an asshole hasnt stopped you from big time success I see. Unless of course your bullshitting us, 500K SF is massive and I doubt someone with your attitude would be competent enough to manage that. Unless its a 500K SF warehouse so then I tip my hat to your continued domination of the industry and chat forums.
u mad bro?
Why did you get him all mad bro
I liek it yo. Watch me get a good one in:
Bundy: Charges 45/hour and then complains about the cost revit. Real fucking pro right there.
I use Archicad for large scale mfr and mixed-use projects. Teamwork allows the flexibility to work with consultants from any location.
Archicad is far superior to Revit, it is certainly more intuitive and user-friendly. Revit requires a steeper investment in hardware along with the exorbitant program costs.
Why waste resources on an inferior product, and then deal with the shortcomings of the product? Those $ can be used for so many other items necessary to run your biz.
Hire a professional accredited autodesk training centre to train you for a few days. Start a project you've already done in AutoCAD in revit and try to finish it. Hire a bim consultant to help build your template and help out all your technical enquiries. Start small. I used to train revit and I'm still learning new stuff.
Wow, lots of feedback ... and some bickering, haha, but all around aloooot of good info. I didn't even consider ArchiCAD. Now I've got to start another forum titled ArchiCAD vs. Revit and see what happens there.
As for switching to BIM, it seems as though I should be looking for someone to add to our team if I'm going to switch to Revit and probably do it on my own if I move forward with ArchiCAD. Not very comfortable making the switch either way but I gotta do it.
Any good ArchiCAD tutorial youtube libraries?
Any good Revit tutorial youtube playlists you recommend?
I'd be interested in hearing thoughts on ArchiCAD vs. Revit.