What are firms planning to do about the new FLSA ruling? Will firms raise salaries to be over the threshold? How will this affect firms that have intern architects working long hours with no overtime? Will they cut the intern hours or just pay up the overtime? Has the AIA taken any position on this?
They might try to do what my wife's industry does. Basically they say "you have x many hours to accomplish y". Then they assign you enough "y" work to fill a theoretical 40 hours. All they need then is enough staff productive enough to prove the hours they assigned for the task are reasonable based on your billing rate.
It is truly diabolical because it puts you in competition with the rest of the staff. Some will cherry pick their assignments, other will get tough ones... but it's the same yard arm used to measure production. They won't pay overtime nor force you to work over 40 hours... it's just that you won't finish your assignments and get written up. Enough write ups and you'll lose your job. So folks skip lunch, work late off the books, etc.
If you are fast or get easy assignments, they'll make sure you have enough work to fill the 40 hours....usually by sending you in to help someone "slow" (who are already getting ostracized because they won't be there long). They'll also reward those productive stars... they are the ones that set those production bars everyone will be judged against.
In summary; they eat their young.
wurdan freo
Jun 1, 16 8:19 pm
What industry is that?
jp22
Jun 1, 16 9:48 pm
@mightyaa
Damn. I knew that's the way it'd go. I was kinda hoping they'd just give raises and make us continue the status quo. I mean $47,456 really isn't that much...if they absolutely need tons of overtime they could pay at least that much for it. With overtime, what's that $15 / hour?
stone
Jun 1, 16 10:04 pm
You know what, boys and girls ... this actually might be a blessing in disguise for our cherished profession.
At a very fundamental level, firms in our field have virtually zero pricing power -- clients have all the real power when it comes to establishing fees, meaning firms that consistently hold out for higher fees, without providing demonstrably higher value, garner less and less work. And, as we all know, it's really, really, hard to provide "demonstrably higher value" when the client community tends to view what we do as a commodity.
So, in an environment like that, profitability depends almost entirely on productivity. While I understand why the scenario that mightyaa describes above sends chills down everybody's spine, at the most basic level what he's describing is aimed at increasing productivity across the board. Eventually, those individuals who don't, or can't, produce an appropriate amount of work relative to their cost will lose the opportunity to do so.
While we like to muse about the esoteric charms of our profession, we are one of the least efficient professions going. Maybe this will make more firms focus on ways to use labor more effectively - and more efficiently.
archanonymous
Jun 1, 16 11:40 pm
design is inherently inefficient. Yes, there are hard technical and repetitive tasks to do as an architect, but the real value we create comes from design, and that requires inspiration, research, and happenstance. It can't be made radically more efficient without losing the foundation of the profession.
mightyaa
Jun 2, 16 12:11 pm
My wife's industry is mortgage underwriting...
Forgot to mention the other part. Let’s say you and few others cop an attitude that you aren’t going to put in those extra hours to get the work done and are willing to take that writeup or learned how to work the system to avoid that writeup. Bottom line is that work still didn’t get done and it needs to… So they redistribute your load to the rest of the team members (who are pushed to just get their own stuff done and watching you leave right on time everyday). Basically, you aren’t going to be popular. And that trickles upwards since you aren’t requested when new project teams are formed and are pretty much treated like a team liability the minute you are assigned to another... That’s the stuff that will haunt your career.
Why? Because this sort of diabolical system usually results in high turnover. So those team members you annoyed and forced to do your work… they might be at the new firm you are interviewing with and will be asked what they thought about you. Basically, you weren't one of those stars and they didn't want you on their team....
curtkram
Jun 2, 16 1:19 pm
be smart enough and good enough at what you do so people want you on their team whether you put in 60 hour weeks or not. it's not all mindless shit work. it's still valuable to have a few smart and competent people around.
a team with high turnover isn't going to produce good work due to the lack of continuity. bringing in new people means wasting lots of time for the new person to understand the history of the project and what's going on, plus all the other normal new hire stuff. if the management can't run their business, let the business fail. it's not your problem if you're an intern making less than 47,456 per year anyway.
don't be too afraid of getting fired. sounds like it happens all the time, and if you're at an office that has high turnover due to their inability to schedule or plan, it's pretty likely there is another office with high turnover that would happy to take you.
What are firms planning to do about the new FLSA ruling? Will firms raise salaries to be over the threshold? How will this affect firms that have intern architects working long hours with no overtime? Will they cut the intern hours or just pay up the overtime? Has the AIA taken any position on this?
Isn't 1.5 times zero still zero?
1099
Just going to leave this here ...
http://archinect.com/forum/thread/149945980/new-overtime-rules-go-into-effect-december-1st
They might try to do what my wife's industry does. Basically they say "you have x many hours to accomplish y". Then they assign you enough "y" work to fill a theoretical 40 hours. All they need then is enough staff productive enough to prove the hours they assigned for the task are reasonable based on your billing rate.
It is truly diabolical because it puts you in competition with the rest of the staff. Some will cherry pick their assignments, other will get tough ones... but it's the same yard arm used to measure production. They won't pay overtime nor force you to work over 40 hours... it's just that you won't finish your assignments and get written up. Enough write ups and you'll lose your job. So folks skip lunch, work late off the books, etc.
If you are fast or get easy assignments, they'll make sure you have enough work to fill the 40 hours....usually by sending you in to help someone "slow" (who are already getting ostracized because they won't be there long). They'll also reward those productive stars... they are the ones that set those production bars everyone will be judged against.
In summary; they eat their young.
What industry is that?
@mightyaa
Damn. I knew that's the way it'd go. I was kinda hoping they'd just give raises and make us continue the status quo. I mean $47,456 really isn't that much...if they absolutely need tons of overtime they could pay at least that much for it. With overtime, what's that $15 / hour?
You know what, boys and girls ... this actually might be a blessing in disguise for our cherished profession.
At a very fundamental level, firms in our field have virtually zero pricing power -- clients have all the real power when it comes to establishing fees, meaning firms that consistently hold out for higher fees, without providing demonstrably higher value, garner less and less work. And, as we all know, it's really, really, hard to provide "demonstrably higher value" when the client community tends to view what we do as a commodity.
So, in an environment like that, profitability depends almost entirely on productivity. While I understand why the scenario that mightyaa describes above sends chills down everybody's spine, at the most basic level what he's describing is aimed at increasing productivity across the board. Eventually, those individuals who don't, or can't, produce an appropriate amount of work relative to their cost will lose the opportunity to do so.
While we like to muse about the esoteric charms of our profession, we are one of the least efficient professions going. Maybe this will make more firms focus on ways to use labor more effectively - and more efficiently.
design is inherently inefficient. Yes, there are hard technical and repetitive tasks to do as an architect, but the real value we create comes from design, and that requires inspiration, research, and happenstance. It can't be made radically more efficient without losing the foundation of the profession.
My wife's industry is mortgage underwriting...
Forgot to mention the other part. Let’s say you and few others cop an attitude that you aren’t going to put in those extra hours to get the work done and are willing to take that writeup or learned how to work the system to avoid that writeup. Bottom line is that work still didn’t get done and it needs to… So they redistribute your load to the rest of the team members (who are pushed to just get their own stuff done and watching you leave right on time everyday). Basically, you aren’t going to be popular. And that trickles upwards since you aren’t requested when new project teams are formed and are pretty much treated like a team liability the minute you are assigned to another... That’s the stuff that will haunt your career.
Why? Because this sort of diabolical system usually results in high turnover. So those team members you annoyed and forced to do your work… they might be at the new firm you are interviewing with and will be asked what they thought about you. Basically, you weren't one of those stars and they didn't want you on their team....
be smart enough and good enough at what you do so people want you on their team whether you put in 60 hour weeks or not. it's not all mindless shit work. it's still valuable to have a few smart and competent people around.
a team with high turnover isn't going to produce good work due to the lack of continuity. bringing in new people means wasting lots of time for the new person to understand the history of the project and what's going on, plus all the other normal new hire stuff. if the management can't run their business, let the business fail. it's not your problem if you're an intern making less than 47,456 per year anyway.
don't be too afraid of getting fired. sounds like it happens all the time, and if you're at an office that has high turnover due to their inability to schedule or plan, it's pretty likely there is another office with high turnover that would happy to take you.