If drawings have the corporate letter block on them and no stamp from the licensed architect then where does the liability fall?
Non Sequitur
May 24, 16 12:53 pm
...on the fool who tried to pass non-stamped drawings for permit.
x-jla
May 24, 16 12:59 pm
Liability has nothing to do with stamps. Anyone who does anything can be held liable. The stamp or lack of a stamp will likely be taken into consideration by the judge, as would a handgun safety certification or military training in an accidental shooting case, but anyone who accidentally shoots someone can be held liable...A pro boxer may be treated more severely if he punches and kills someone...but anyone who does so will be held responsible even if they have zero training. Ignorance is not a defense. Anytime you do something for a fee you are expected to know how to do that thing to a reasonable standard or else you are acting fraudulently.
JeromeS
May 24, 16 1:07 pm
Were the drawings issued for some other purpose than what they were submitted?
cadomestique
May 24, 16 1:20 pm
LOL where to start..
A corporate letterhead is worth nothing and liability falls directly in the hands of the designer (it is illegal to call oneself "architect" without a licence to perform professional architectural services)
it should't matter much anyway, you will be ejected from planning depts when trying to submit dwgs for permit without a valid stamp.
senjohnblutarsky
May 24, 16 1:24 pm
Certain states require a licensed individual to stamp anything going for permit. So, the preparer could face disciplinary action for even submitting unstamped drawings.
mtnm2
May 24, 16 1:25 pm
The drawings filed with the HOA do not have a stamp on them. We found the home already completed and multiple issues have come up since then. I am trying to get the stamped drawings from the 3rd part inspector since we are in the county there is no city inspections.
Non Sequitur
May 24, 16 1:35 pm
...so a sleazy client paid an office for a house design then, instead of paying more for CDs and site coordination services, decided to turn to an equally sleazy contractor who build the house for a "discount".
mtnm2
May 24, 16 1:47 pm
Well.... it gets more interesting without going into it too much. The "architect" who we cant find evidence of being licensed at this point is also the cousin of the builder and an investor in the construction of the property. I wish we had discovered all this prior to closing.
David Cole, AIA
May 24, 16 1:51 pm
Yet another "building designer" who likes to play pretend architect, apparently.
Non Sequitur
May 24, 16 1:57 pm
Sleaziness all around!
This would not happen to be in Oregon now would it?
x-jla
May 24, 16 2:17 pm
Depends on what state you are in. SFR is exempt from licensure in most states. There are some very good residential designers and some shit heads. Licensure really has little to do with it.
x-jla
May 24, 16 2:19 pm
Also, a contractor can design what they build. 99% of homes are not designed by architects.
JeromeS
May 24, 16 2:21 pm
sound more like a violation of HOA rules than bad design or code problems
digger
May 24, 16 2:21 pm
"We found the home already completed..."
Well, that speaks volumes about the HOA's attentiveness.
If the completed house does not comply with established covenants (and the HOA did not previously approved the drawings) then I would say the owner of the houseis solely responsible to the HOA. If the home's owner was relying on a design professional (and I use that term loosely in this context) then that owner may have secondary legal recourse against the designer. But, I don't see how the designer has any direct responsibility whatsoever to the HOA.
x-jla
May 24, 16 2:22 pm
Again, liability falls on whoever you have the contract with. What exactly is the problem?
gruen
May 24, 16 4:07 pm
Stamp usually not required for residential. I don't see an issue here. Typical HOA trying to stir up trouble. Probably a bunch of lawyers. Boo Hiss.
stone
May 24, 16 4:41 pm
mtnm2 -- are you the homeowner?
If that is the case and you purchased an existing home that has "problems" then you should look to the builder for recourse.
geezertect
May 24, 16 6:55 pm
Does the title block say "architect"? It probably doesn't. As noted earlier, most single family homes did not require a licensed architect's stamp.
Pursue the builder or seller if they did something wrong. The builder/investor team is where your recourse lies. You haven't elaborated on the problems so our answers are vague.
null pointer
May 24, 16 7:08 pm
ib4rwcb
null pointer
May 24, 16 7:11 pm
HOA drawings rarely have to be stamped. I don't stamp the ones I issue out to condo boards unless otherwise required. I also note "not for construction" among my huge set of general notes.
I want to make sure that there is no sort of implied contractual relationship between me and the condo board.
The OP can either go after the property owner or no one else. Even the contractor. The only person with a contractual relationship with the HOA is the owner unless the architect was forced to sign something (which I would fucking never sign. Ever.).
If drawings have the corporate letter block on them and no stamp from the licensed architect then where does the liability fall?
...on the fool who tried to pass non-stamped drawings for permit.
Liability has nothing to do with stamps. Anyone who does anything can be held liable. The stamp or lack of a stamp will likely be taken into consideration by the judge, as would a handgun safety certification or military training in an accidental shooting case, but anyone who accidentally shoots someone can be held liable...A pro boxer may be treated more severely if he punches and kills someone...but anyone who does so will be held responsible even if they have zero training. Ignorance is not a defense. Anytime you do something for a fee you are expected to know how to do that thing to a reasonable standard or else you are acting fraudulently.
Were the drawings issued for some other purpose than what they were submitted?
LOL where to start..
A corporate letterhead is worth nothing and liability falls directly in the hands of the designer (it is illegal to call oneself "architect" without a licence to perform professional architectural services)
it should't matter much anyway, you will be ejected from planning depts when trying to submit dwgs for permit without a valid stamp.
Certain states require a licensed individual to stamp anything going for permit. So, the preparer could face disciplinary action for even submitting unstamped drawings.
The drawings filed with the HOA do not have a stamp on them. We found the home already completed and multiple issues have come up since then. I am trying to get the stamped drawings from the 3rd part inspector since we are in the county there is no city inspections.
...so a sleazy client paid an office for a house design then, instead of paying more for CDs and site coordination services, decided to turn to an equally sleazy contractor who build the house for a "discount".
Well.... it gets more interesting without going into it too much. The "architect" who we cant find evidence of being licensed at this point is also the cousin of the builder and an investor in the construction of the property. I wish we had discovered all this prior to closing.
Yet another "building designer" who likes to play pretend architect, apparently.
Sleaziness all around!
This would not happen to be in Oregon now would it?
Depends on what state you are in. SFR is exempt from licensure in most states. There are some very good residential designers and some shit heads. Licensure really has little to do with it.
Also, a contractor can design what they build. 99% of homes are not designed by architects.
sound more like a violation of HOA rules than bad design or code problems
"We found the home already completed..."
Well, that speaks volumes about the HOA's attentiveness.
If the completed house does not comply with established covenants (and the HOA did not previously approved the drawings) then I would say the owner of the house is solely responsible to the HOA. If the home's owner was relying on a design professional (and I use that term loosely in this context) then that owner may have secondary legal recourse against the designer. But, I don't see how the designer has any direct responsibility whatsoever to the HOA.
Again, liability falls on whoever you have the contract with. What exactly is the problem?
Stamp usually not required for residential. I don't see an issue here. Typical HOA trying to stir up trouble. Probably a bunch of lawyers. Boo Hiss.
mtnm2 -- are you the homeowner?
If that is the case and you purchased an existing home that has "problems" then you should look to the builder for recourse.
Does the title block say "architect"? It probably doesn't. As noted earlier, most single family homes did not require a licensed architect's stamp.
Pursue the builder or seller if they did something wrong. The builder/investor team is where your recourse lies. You haven't elaborated on the problems so our answers are vague.
ib4rwcb
HOA drawings rarely have to be stamped. I don't stamp the ones I issue out to condo boards unless otherwise required. I also note "not for construction" among my huge set of general notes.
I want to make sure that there is no sort of implied contractual relationship between me and the condo board.
The OP can either go after the property owner or no one else. Even the contractor. The only person with a contractual relationship with the HOA is the owner unless the architect was forced to sign something (which I would fucking never sign. Ever.).