Let's say my parents and grandparents were architects, and lets say they brought me to work with them a lot while I was growing up, to the point where when I enrolled in architecture school, I already knew how to be an architect by shadowing my loved ones for 10+ years. I'd only need to be there for the accredited degree so I can practice in the US. I'd have the pragmatic and practical education that currently is lacking in academia and would already understand how to own and operate a practice. So I'd go to architecture school to pay my dues and improve my creativity even though I'm pretty much ready to go design mundane strip malls or something at 19 due to my prior development.
Fast forward to graduating and entering the workforce. Realistically at this point I should just move to South America or Thailand and be a licensed Architect at 22, but for this scenario we'll omit that as a possibility; we'll say I have to stay in the US and go through standard licensure procedures...
Even though I have architect parents, I still need to do IDP in order to take my exams, but they've retired so I try working for a corporate firm after graduating to work my way into licensure and gain individual experience away from my parents.
I start at an office with over 100 people, but quickly realize that my similar-aged coworkers are less productive than me because they really are just starting out, while I've practically been in this for 10+ years already. Because I already understand the way a project is designed and developed, I see necessary areas of improvement for my Project Managers as well. So I realize that with most of them, I could do their job - but these are people in their 30s with 10+ years of experience, making $75k+, while I'm just as knowledgeable as them, but due to ageism I'm superficially valued at a standard wage of $45k as a 23 year old because "that seems fair for someone just graduating college who's only ever worked for their parents". I see that as unfair, so I start applying for PM positions seeking 10 years of experience, while I'm only 23! Oh my, the audacity and arrogance! Ah, what confidence!
But no company is convinced that I'm better than their older staff, (UNLESS its a tech start-up). So in order to get hired I'll have to get lucky with someone willing to take the risk of hiring me for this mid-senior level position even though I'm almost half the age of a typical PM. My parents help me with the luck by connecting me with some colleagues and I get my PM job at $75k at 23 years old, where I direct 25-30 year olds on projects because I'm now in a leadership position and am simply more knowledgable than them due to my upbringing. Half the office resents me because they're worried about me and my millennial robots replacing them in the workforce. But really they're just regretting their complacency.
Hypothetically, can this be done in the US? Can a fresh 23 year old convince a firm that they are of the same value as someone with 5 years of experience, because their whole life was rooted in architectural practice, and the other just found their interest in college and barely knows a thing about running a project, simply knows what they teach in school?
Hypothetically, this person is knowledgeable enough to go to Venezuela or Laos and just hit the ground running with commissions before they're even 24, but in the US they have to wait 10 years for the same opportunities.
Some graduates in the creative arts or IT fields are able to do this if they were child prodigies. Tech entrepreneurs are also able to do this. These industries together equal Architecture. So can young architectural prodigies leapfrog the rungs on their career ladders too? Is trust the defining factor here? Is ageism a huge problem in the architectural profession? Do architectural prodigies even exist?
When you're a tech entrepreneur building a start up and you're looking to add staff, you sometimes are open to the idea of hiring the youngest proficient applicant because they can be hired for less money than someone with similar ability in skill even though they've been alive longer. If you were a entrepreneurial Architect who starts their own office, looking to hire some drafters, you might be open to hiring the youngest proficient Revit user simply because all you need is them to draft - not solve technical design issues or anything. So you could hire 16 year olds as long as they knew how to work Revit for you, and you could probably pay them half as much as a 23 year old and they'd still be ecstatic about the offer! Oh boy, they'd probably text on their tablet phones an awful lot though!
If they're 100% certain of their own abilities and are truly ready, can Millennials only leapfrog their career ladders by being self-employed because an employer has to rely on a bit of trust when hiring a stranger?
TL;DR I'm probably a schizophrenic
SneakyPete
May 6, 16 7:48 pm
Can you?
Sure.
Will you be able to?
I think you already explained the problems you'll be facing, and I don't think it's "ageism."
curtkram
May 6, 16 9:07 pm
sounds like you have a really high opinion of yourself, but as far as i can tell, nobody else has that high opinion of you?
i don't think there are child prodigies in architecture. there are a few people who have really risen above the rest as designers; tadao ando, libeskind for example. however, to be a project manager or to contribute to a more established firm like you're talking about, i think it takes time. you don't magically know how to get a door threshold to meet ada, or how a closer on a door really works. there a ton of little things you pick up, a little bit at a time.
if you want nepotism to work for you, get your parents to start up their firms again, sign off on your idp hours, and hand you a management position in their firm. otherwise, if it's true that you really are more valuable to your 100 person firm, you just kind of have to understand the position you're in, find out who would make the decisions to get you in a better a place (it's probably a few people), and press your position.
Dangermouse
May 6, 16 10:12 pm
"where I direct 25-30 year olds on projects because I'm now in a leadership position and am simply more knowledgable than them due to my upbringing"
knowledge is not leadership. your attitude is a clear sign that you're probably not ready to lead a team as a PM.
"TL;DR I'm probably a schizophrenic"
what the fuck does this have to do with anything. leadership is fundamentally about others, it isn't about yourself. you do way, way too much angsty navel-gazing.
awaiting_deletion
May 6, 16 10:24 pm
the interesting thing about the real world, it's nothing like the internet.
kjdt
May 6, 16 10:37 pm
I don't see anybody caring much about age in and of itself at all. Experience is a different matter. In this hypothetical situation, how much experience do you have other than experience in your parents' firm? I never hire anyone for positions that involve managing projects or staff unless they have diverse experience in multiple firms and project types.
no_form
May 7, 16 12:16 pm
22-10=12. 12 year olds do not know how to make a building. 16 year olds do not know how to make a building. 20 year olds may have some academic knowledge and can be mentored. 22 year olds are just getting work experience and learning how it works in professional practice. You are 22 or 23 it sounds.
The answer is no. You do not have 10+ years experience. But you did get some good observational experience and maybe learned a few things that could give you a leg up on your peers.
no_form
May 7, 16 12:18 pm
If this was 1543 and you started an apprenticeship at 12 with a master stone mason I'd believe you. But in modern construction you are essentially in the same boat as the rest of your peers.
Hypothetical...
Let's say my parents and grandparents were architects, and lets say they brought me to work with them a lot while I was growing up, to the point where when I enrolled in architecture school, I already knew how to be an architect by shadowing my loved ones for 10+ years. I'd only need to be there for the accredited degree so I can practice in the US. I'd have the pragmatic and practical education that currently is lacking in academia and would already understand how to own and operate a practice. So I'd go to architecture school to pay my dues and improve my creativity even though I'm pretty much ready to go design mundane strip malls or something at 19 due to my prior development.
Fast forward to graduating and entering the workforce. Realistically at this point I should just move to South America or Thailand and be a licensed Architect at 22, but for this scenario we'll omit that as a possibility; we'll say I have to stay in the US and go through standard licensure procedures...
Even though I have architect parents, I still need to do IDP in order to take my exams, but they've retired so I try working for a corporate firm after graduating to work my way into licensure and gain individual experience away from my parents.
I start at an office with over 100 people, but quickly realize that my similar-aged coworkers are less productive than me because they really are just starting out, while I've practically been in this for 10+ years already. Because I already understand the way a project is designed and developed, I see necessary areas of improvement for my Project Managers as well. So I realize that with most of them, I could do their job - but these are people in their 30s with 10+ years of experience, making $75k+, while I'm just as knowledgeable as them, but due to ageism I'm superficially valued at a standard wage of $45k as a 23 year old because "that seems fair for someone just graduating college who's only ever worked for their parents". I see that as unfair, so I start applying for PM positions seeking 10 years of experience, while I'm only 23! Oh my, the audacity and arrogance! Ah, what confidence!
But no company is convinced that I'm better than their older staff, (UNLESS its a tech start-up). So in order to get hired I'll have to get lucky with someone willing to take the risk of hiring me for this mid-senior level position even though I'm almost half the age of a typical PM. My parents help me with the luck by connecting me with some colleagues and I get my PM job at $75k at 23 years old, where I direct 25-30 year olds on projects because I'm now in a leadership position and am simply more knowledgable than them due to my upbringing. Half the office resents me because they're worried about me and my millennial robots replacing them in the workforce. But really they're just regretting their complacency.
Hypothetically, can this be done in the US? Can a fresh 23 year old convince a firm that they are of the same value as someone with 5 years of experience, because their whole life was rooted in architectural practice, and the other just found their interest in college and barely knows a thing about running a project, simply knows what they teach in school?
Hypothetically, this person is knowledgeable enough to go to Venezuela or Laos and just hit the ground running with commissions before they're even 24, but in the US they have to wait 10 years for the same opportunities.
Some graduates in the creative arts or IT fields are able to do this if they were child prodigies. Tech entrepreneurs are also able to do this. These industries together equal Architecture. So can young architectural prodigies leapfrog the rungs on their career ladders too? Is trust the defining factor here? Is ageism a huge problem in the architectural profession? Do architectural prodigies even exist?
When you're a tech entrepreneur building a start up and you're looking to add staff, you sometimes are open to the idea of hiring the youngest proficient applicant because they can be hired for less money than someone with similar ability in skill even though they've been alive longer. If you were a entrepreneurial Architect who starts their own office, looking to hire some drafters, you might be open to hiring the youngest proficient Revit user simply because all you need is them to draft - not solve technical design issues or anything. So you could hire 16 year olds as long as they knew how to work Revit for you, and you could probably pay them half as much as a 23 year old and they'd still be ecstatic about the offer! Oh boy, they'd probably text on their tablet phones an awful lot though!
If they're 100% certain of their own abilities and are truly ready, can Millennials only leapfrog their career ladders by being self-employed because an employer has to rely on a bit of trust when hiring a stranger?
TL;DR I'm probably a schizophrenic
Can you?
Sure.
Will you be able to?
I think you already explained the problems you'll be facing, and I don't think it's "ageism."
sounds like you have a really high opinion of yourself, but as far as i can tell, nobody else has that high opinion of you?
i don't think there are child prodigies in architecture. there are a few people who have really risen above the rest as designers; tadao ando, libeskind for example. however, to be a project manager or to contribute to a more established firm like you're talking about, i think it takes time. you don't magically know how to get a door threshold to meet ada, or how a closer on a door really works. there a ton of little things you pick up, a little bit at a time.
if you want nepotism to work for you, get your parents to start up their firms again, sign off on your idp hours, and hand you a management position in their firm. otherwise, if it's true that you really are more valuable to your 100 person firm, you just kind of have to understand the position you're in, find out who would make the decisions to get you in a better a place (it's probably a few people), and press your position.
"where I direct 25-30 year olds on projects because I'm now in a leadership position and am simply more knowledgable than them due to my upbringing"
knowledge is not leadership. your attitude is a clear sign that you're probably not ready to lead a team as a PM.
"TL;DR I'm probably a schizophrenic"
what the fuck does this have to do with anything. leadership is fundamentally about others, it isn't about yourself. you do way, way too much angsty navel-gazing.
the interesting thing about the real world, it's nothing like the internet.
I don't see anybody caring much about age in and of itself at all. Experience is a different matter. In this hypothetical situation, how much experience do you have other than experience in your parents' firm? I never hire anyone for positions that involve managing projects or staff unless they have diverse experience in multiple firms and project types.
22-10=12. 12 year olds do not know how to make a building. 16 year olds do not know how to make a building. 20 year olds may have some academic knowledge and can be mentored. 22 year olds are just getting work experience and learning how it works in professional practice. You are 22 or 23 it sounds.
The answer is no. You do not have 10+ years experience. But you did get some good observational experience and maybe learned a few things that could give you a leg up on your peers.
If this was 1543 and you started an apprenticeship at 12 with a master stone mason I'd believe you. But in modern construction you are essentially in the same boat as the rest of your peers.