Not to mention that it does not work. If it is built directly on the border, you create an international incident by building on your neighbors land as well as yours. On the Mexican side? Then the Mexicans can cross it freely. On the U.S. side? Then they can enter the U.S. freely without crossing the wall and anchor baby it up. Trump is an idiot.
x-jla
Apr 16, 16 4:27 pm
Floods too .
awaiting_deletion
Apr 17, 16 11:16 am
I imagine at points it would cross lakes, ponds, and rivers. do Mexican fish get access or would they build essentially a damn/sub water wall.
go do it
Apr 17, 16 3:09 pm
and imminent domain
more private land being taken
gwharton
Apr 18, 16 11:46 am
Ecological effect number 1: MAKING AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
,,,,
Apr 18, 16 11:52 am
For whom?
gwharton
Apr 18, 16 11:54 am
For Americans. Duh.
x-jla
Apr 18, 16 12:57 pm
I agree, let's make American great again! It's best days were before the pilgrims landed so let's start by all fucking leaving and letting nature overgrow the mess we all made!
,,,,
Apr 18, 16 1:26 pm
Would not a wall like Donald Trump proposes disrupt the natural flow of the river?
gwharton
Apr 18, 16 1:36 pm
No. It wouldn't disrupt the river.
,,,,
Apr 18, 16 1:37 pm
Wait a minute, Donald Trump wants to severely limit the EPA. Problem solved.
citizen
Apr 18, 16 2:13 pm
Trench drains should solve the ecological problems. A two-thousand mile trench drain.
gwharton
Apr 18, 16 2:59 pm
It comes with it's own bioswale system:
go do it
Apr 18, 16 3:05 pm
I am reading Travels With Charlie by John Steinbeck and when he was up in Maine he spent some time with migrant potato pickers from Canada on a work visa. Why can't this be more streamlined with less red tape and some sort of time restriction verification?
Oh nevermind I guess: I may be wrong but money may play a role in this tragedy for corporate aMERICA.
Employee Rights
An employer who files an application for temporary foreign labor certification pursuant to H-2A regulations must meet many specific conditions, including those concerning recruitment, wages, housing, meals, transportation, workers’ compensation insurance, tools and supplies, certification fees, labor disputes, and other conditions.
Workers who believe that their rights were violated under the H-2A regulations may file their complaints through the Job Service Complaint System, as described in 20 CFR part 658, Subpart E.
H-2A workers and the U.S. workers hired under the job order may file complaints about non-compliance with H-2A labor standards with a local Wage and Hour Division office. ETA or any State Workforce Agency will forward any complaint received about contractual H-2A labor standards between the employer and the employee to a local Wage and Hour Division office for appropriate action.
I do not believe that is what Trump is proposing. Trump's Wall, as I understand it, is a solid wall 50 -100 feet high. Your example is a 10 foot high fence.
go do it
Apr 18, 16 3:16 pm
We are all guilty co-conspirators in all of this I suppose. We all want to pay the lowest price possible be it avocados and asparagus from the fields of the Imperial Valley or shirts and pants from Wal-Mart made by children.
And then comes the slippery slope of decent wages for migrant workers offset by higher prices at the checkout line. And I don't think that U.S. workers wages will increase in kind.
Flooding at border wall. Trumps probable solution.... "Mexicans can swim"
x-jla
Apr 18, 16 3:45 pm
They will have to build a wall to keep Americans in if Trump wins.
cadomestique
Apr 18, 16 3:52 pm
Dumbest idea ever...
Simply enforce exg laws, plug the birth citizenship hole (there are chinese bussines in so-cal thriving as a birthing business for foreign asians, it's NOT just a latin problem) and curb this degenerative disease of pol correctiveness that is affecting the country and problem solved.
While we are at it, I'd also like the US to stop supporting other countries wining & dinning at our expense, not when there are so much internal deficit in many fields.
gwharton
Apr 18, 16 3:59 pm
If you're going to make statements about what Trump is proposing, at least do so knowledgeably, instead of saying things like "100 foot wall". Here's his policy proposal:
Also, Trump has specifically referenced the Israeli border fence on multiple occasions as a model for his proposal. That's where the diagram I posted comes from.
x intern
Apr 18, 16 4:01 pm
Trump is an idiot. These guys are digging mile long tunnels to get drugs and illegals into the country. You really want to solve the problem put the owner of any company in prison if they employ an illegal. I don't know who would do the jobs the illegals currently do but I promise construction cost would go through the roof if someone solved the "problem"
gwharton
Apr 18, 16 4:06 pm
And yet, somehow Israel's border wall magically works to keep them all out. Hmmm.
But as a matter of holistic policy, I agree: criminal penalties (including jail time) for officers of companies who hire illegals.
,,,,
Apr 18, 16 4:15 pm
^^ I skimmed the article and did not see anything specific regarding the wall. I remember very distinctly Trump talking about how high the wall would be.
Paraphrasing "Let me tell you it will be a magnificent wall, a wall so high they can not even get over it with ropes. I know how to build things, it will be so easy, this is what you do, and I should know, I have built things all over the world, have these people ever heard of precast panels? "
x-jla
Apr 18, 16 4:16 pm
The us border is much much bigger. Trump is a moron
gwharton
Apr 18, 16 4:17 pm
You keep calling him a moron, and yet he keeps winning. Maybe you are not as smart as you think you are.
x-jla
Apr 18, 16 4:25 pm
I agree that illegal aliens are a security threat, but the wall is nothing more than a symbolic political goal that is easily understood by trumps moronic supporters. You want to solve the problem....give 5year temporary status to anyone who wants to enter with a clean record...if they remain clean give them an automatic 5 year residency...after 10 years they automatically become citizens if clean....make it easy as cake for the masses of good folks so that there is a minimal number of people sneaking in who will now be more easily identifiable as criminals. Less people to police...easier to separate the 1% criminals from the 99% people looking to make a better life.
gwharton
Apr 18, 16 4:35 pm
HAHAHAHAHAHA. No.
We've already got too many people as it is. We don't need any more. Going back to the original topic of this thread, opening the floodgates to let all those people in is ecologically as well as economically disastrous. Building a wall/fence as part of an integrated strategy to control our borders is necessary to prevent catastrophe for our nation.
You do realize that immigration has declined? Population increase is a big problem globally, but it doesn't really matter what side of the wall it's on as our air is shared.
gwharton
Apr 18, 16 4:47 pm
It hasn't gone to zero, which is where it needs to be following the post-1965 invasion. And we still have more than 10 million illegals here who need to go back to wherever they came from. We're having enough trouble assimilating the other 55 million.
x-jla
Apr 18, 16 4:49 pm
If you want to make "America great again" you need to first define when america was "great" and for whom. Anything before 1970 was pretty bad for non-whites so is it the 80s, the 90s?
x intern
Apr 18, 16 4:57 pm
Legalize pot and issue work visas for people without records. I don't know but I bet people caught sneaking over the wall in Israel probably have a good chance of getting shot. Americans can't stomach that
gwharton
Apr 18, 16 5:09 pm
Are you just regurgitating things you read in Utne Reader now? Are you unaware of how the middle class has been hollowed out during the past thirty years? How real wages for the bottom two quartiles in our society have been stagnant or shrinking since 1970? How black families have been destroyed by perverse social programs and welfare incentives? How our culture has been systematically attacked and undermined by our elites in order to weaken family solidarity? How global capital has come to own our entire political system from top to bottom and run massive financial scams using our own currency while transferring all of its failures and risks on the shoulders of ordinary Americans with impunity? How global labor arbitrage has priced living wage work out of the lower half of the American economy entirely? How we have pissed away American blood and treasure in countless wars for petty dictators and financial interests?
But no. Nevermind all that. Instead, let's have a freak-out about bus seating in the 1950s or something similarly retarded while screaming our heads off about racism or sexism or genderism or classism or patriarchy or whatever.
Making America Great Again means rebuilding our decimated social capital, shoring up our failing culture, reinforcing American families, looking after the interests of Americans first, second, and third, and restoring the engine of American work and inventiveness which made us the wealthiest creditor nation in the world only a few decades ago. It means running the nation for the benefit of all its citizens, not just those who occupy cushy academic sinecures, bureaucratic satrapies, Wall Street trading houses, and NGOs.
It means being a nation again, not social experiment or global confidence scam.
x-jla
Apr 18, 16 6:47 pm
LOL. And you think trump is going to restore the middle class...talk about putting the wolf in charge of the hen house.
x-jla
Apr 18, 16 6:49 pm
The prosperity of the 1950s was a result of post ww2...but hey, if he starts ww3 you may be right....
gwharton
Apr 18, 16 7:19 pm
I guess I was right. You're not nearly as smart as you think you are.
x-jla
Apr 18, 16 7:43 pm
And there's the sloppy dismount by gwharton.
awaiting_deletion
Apr 18, 16 7:50 pm
i was worried about the dual citizen Bisons and fish.
threadkilla
Apr 19, 16 3:49 am
Trump is insane, but his Wall as a cornerstone of the election platform makes him architecturally compelling. Some 50 years ago the concept would have found siblings among the megastructure-minded architects.
outside of the big political battle, we seem to be missing another issue, the Ecological impact. http://m.nautil.us/issue/35/boundaries/the-other-crisis-on-the-mexican-border http://mobile.nytimes.com/2007/11/21/us/21fence.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&referer=http://archinect.com/news/article/67914/ecology-of-the-border-fence
Not to mention that it does not work. If it is built directly on the border, you create an international incident by building on your neighbors land as well as yours. On the Mexican side? Then the Mexicans can cross it freely. On the U.S. side? Then they can enter the U.S. freely without crossing the wall and anchor baby it up. Trump is an idiot.
Floods too .
I imagine at points it would cross lakes, ponds, and rivers. do Mexican fish get access or would they build essentially a damn/sub water wall.
and imminent domain
more private land being taken
Ecological effect number 1: MAKING AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
For whom?
For Americans. Duh.
I agree, let's make American great again! It's best days were before the pilgrims landed so let's start by all fucking leaving and letting nature overgrow the mess we all made!
Would not a wall like Donald Trump proposes disrupt the natural flow of the river?
No. It wouldn't disrupt the river.
Wait a minute, Donald Trump wants to severely limit the EPA. Problem solved.
Trench drains should solve the ecological problems. A two-thousand mile trench drain.
It comes with it's own bioswale system:
I am reading Travels With Charlie by John Steinbeck and when he was up in Maine he spent some time with migrant potato pickers from Canada on a work visa. Why can't this be more streamlined with less red tape and some sort of time restriction verification?
Oh nevermind I guess: I may be wrong but money may play a role in this tragedy for corporate aMERICA.
Employee Rights
An employer who files an application for temporary foreign labor certification pursuant to H-2A regulations must meet many specific conditions, including those concerning recruitment, wages, housing, meals, transportation, workers’ compensation insurance, tools and supplies, certification fees, labor disputes, and other conditions.
Workers who believe that their rights were violated under the H-2A regulations may file their complaints through the Job Service Complaint System, as described in 20 CFR part 658, Subpart E.
H-2A workers and the U.S. workers hired under the job order may file complaints about non-compliance with H-2A labor standards with a local Wage and Hour Division office. ETA or any State Workforce Agency will forward any complaint received about contractual H-2A labor standards between the employer and the employee to a local Wage and Hour Division office for appropriate action.
A recent case
I do not believe that is what Trump is proposing. Trump's Wall, as I understand it, is a solid wall 50 -100 feet high. Your example is a 10 foot high fence.
We are all guilty co-conspirators in all of this I suppose. We all want to pay the lowest price possible be it avocados and asparagus from the fields of the Imperial Valley or shirts and pants from Wal-Mart made by children.
And then comes the slippery slope of decent wages for migrant workers offset by higher prices at the checkout line. And I don't think that U.S. workers wages will increase in kind.
http://wildsonora.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/image-content/flooding-at-the-border-wall-nogales.jpg?itok=AUYw96VI
Flooding at border wall. Trumps probable solution.... "Mexicans can swim"
They will have to build a wall to keep Americans in if Trump wins.
Dumbest idea ever...
Simply enforce exg laws, plug the birth citizenship hole (there are chinese bussines in so-cal thriving as a birthing business for foreign asians, it's NOT just a latin problem) and curb this degenerative disease of pol correctiveness that is affecting the country and problem solved.
While we are at it, I'd also like the US to stop supporting other countries wining & dinning at our expense, not when there are so much internal deficit in many fields.
If you're going to make statements about what Trump is proposing, at least do so knowledgeably, instead of saying things like "100 foot wall". Here's his policy proposal:
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform
Also, Trump has specifically referenced the Israeli border fence on multiple occasions as a model for his proposal. That's where the diagram I posted comes from.
Trump is an idiot. These guys are digging mile long tunnels to get drugs and illegals into the country. You really want to solve the problem put the owner of any company in prison if they employ an illegal. I don't know who would do the jobs the illegals currently do but I promise construction cost would go through the roof if someone solved the "problem"
And yet, somehow Israel's border wall magically works to keep them all out. Hmmm.
But as a matter of holistic policy, I agree: criminal penalties (including jail time) for officers of companies who hire illegals.
^^ I skimmed the article and did not see anything specific regarding the wall. I remember very distinctly Trump talking about how high the wall would be.
Paraphrasing "Let me tell you it will be a magnificent wall, a wall so high they can not even get over it with ropes. I know how to build things, it will be so easy, this is what you do, and I should know, I have built things all over the world, have these people ever heard of precast panels? "
The us border is much much bigger. Trump is a moron
You keep calling him a moron, and yet he keeps winning. Maybe you are not as smart as you think you are.
I agree that illegal aliens are a security threat, but the wall is nothing more than a symbolic political goal that is easily understood by trumps moronic supporters. You want to solve the problem....give 5year temporary status to anyone who wants to enter with a clean record...if they remain clean give them an automatic 5 year residency...after 10 years they automatically become citizens if clean....make it easy as cake for the masses of good folks so that there is a minimal number of people sneaking in who will now be more easily identifiable as criminals. Less people to police...easier to separate the 1% criminals from the 99% people looking to make a better life.
HAHAHAHAHAHA. No.
We've already got too many people as it is. We don't need any more. Going back to the original topic of this thread, opening the floodgates to let all those people in is ecologically as well as economically disastrous. Building a wall/fence as part of an integrated strategy to control our borders is necessary to prevent catastrophe for our nation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE
You do realize that immigration has declined? Population increase is a big problem globally, but it doesn't really matter what side of the wall it's on as our air is shared.
It hasn't gone to zero, which is where it needs to be following the post-1965 invasion. And we still have more than 10 million illegals here who need to go back to wherever they came from. We're having enough trouble assimilating the other 55 million.
If you want to make "America great again" you need to first define when america was "great" and for whom. Anything before 1970 was pretty bad for non-whites so is it the 80s, the 90s?
Legalize pot and issue work visas for people without records. I don't know but I bet people caught sneaking over the wall in Israel probably have a good chance of getting shot. Americans can't stomach that
Are you just regurgitating things you read in Utne Reader now? Are you unaware of how the middle class has been hollowed out during the past thirty years? How real wages for the bottom two quartiles in our society have been stagnant or shrinking since 1970? How black families have been destroyed by perverse social programs and welfare incentives? How our culture has been systematically attacked and undermined by our elites in order to weaken family solidarity? How global capital has come to own our entire political system from top to bottom and run massive financial scams using our own currency while transferring all of its failures and risks on the shoulders of ordinary Americans with impunity? How global labor arbitrage has priced living wage work out of the lower half of the American economy entirely? How we have pissed away American blood and treasure in countless wars for petty dictators and financial interests?
But no. Nevermind all that. Instead, let's have a freak-out about bus seating in the 1950s or something similarly retarded while screaming our heads off about racism or sexism or genderism or classism or patriarchy or whatever.
Making America Great Again means rebuilding our decimated social capital, shoring up our failing culture, reinforcing American families, looking after the interests of Americans first, second, and third, and restoring the engine of American work and inventiveness which made us the wealthiest creditor nation in the world only a few decades ago. It means running the nation for the benefit of all its citizens, not just those who occupy cushy academic sinecures, bureaucratic satrapies, Wall Street trading houses, and NGOs.
It means being a nation again, not social experiment or global confidence scam.
LOL. And you think trump is going to restore the middle class...talk about putting the wolf in charge of the hen house.
The prosperity of the 1950s was a result of post ww2...but hey, if he starts ww3 you may be right....
I guess I was right. You're not nearly as smart as you think you are.
And there's the sloppy dismount by gwharton.
i was worried about the dual citizen Bisons and fish.
Trump is insane, but his Wall as a cornerstone of the election platform makes him architecturally compelling. Some 50 years ago the concept would have found siblings among the megastructure-minded architects.
fuck, I wrote (what I felt was) a really good recap of linear city designs that apply, but the buggy internet connection erased it! just this image for now, then:
with a bunch of links:
http://www.megastructure-reloaded.org/alan-boutwell/
https://relationalthought.wordpress.com/2013/04/22/1514/
https://relationalthought.wordpress.com/2013/05/04/1645/ - Raymond Abraham's Universal City could serve as the foundation of Trump's Wall.
You could solve the illegal immigration problem by housing the immigrant workers inside the Wall, à la Plan Obus! Luxury resort and golf course on the rooftop for the 1%!
http://www.treehugger.com/urban-design/instead-vertical-cities-should-we-be-thinking-about-linear-cities.html - even Treehuggers dig it, whether it comes from some self-styled 'White' dudes like Eisenman and Graves or the Edwardian fantasies of Edgar Chambless
p.s. Alan Boutwell is elsewhere credited as Dave Boutwell...
so legitimate border population? why cross the border, when you can live in it?