I'm paying and spending a lot of time learning CAD both mechanical and architectual only to be told that it's going to practically be obsolete soon?? That's wild. BIM is the next big thing and it's not a program you can learn. I was told to learn revitt but should I drop out of my CAD classes and just learn Revitt? Or do I need to know CAD before learning a program like Revitt? I just want to be ahead of the game. Or should I just completely save my dough and just wait until I start my construction management degree in July? I'm enrolled in a masters in CM. There are a few courses on BIM in the curriculum. I just wanted to have both CAD skills and a CM degree to make me more competitive. But what should I do? Any advice will help. Thanks.
AdrianFGA
Apr 8, 16 2:42 pm
manoverde84, here are my 2 cents.
"I just want to be ahead of the game"
Then I suggest you focus almost exclusively on BIM, and keep Autocad / traditional Cad learning as a (very) low priority. Try to find a course similar in scope to this one , if you want to be ahead of the game. BIM is an information-sharing platform with a much higher interoperability and scalability than traditional Cad software. New meta-data is always included or added to BIM, hence new acronyms like 4D, 5D, or even 6D BIM. Also, with BIM, you can perfom a myriad of analyses using data transferred from other BIM-like programs.
Pure / vanilla Autocad will be around for a while, but increasingly as a legacy product, a bit like how mainframes and Cobol programs are still around. Personally, I see Autocad having some measure of future, only because of the vertical programs that use it as a platform.
To give you one significant example, construction managers - in large companies, that is - use Navisworks to perfom clash detection. On an average project, usually there are thousands of clashes found. Navisworks integrates data coming from various disciplines, this data is created using BIM or other similar 3D design parametric software - Revit Architecture, Revit Structure, Revit MEP, Inventor, Advance Steel, Tekla, to name a few. You may create 3D data using vanilla Autocad for this purpose, but you literally have to reach Revit-like standards of complexity (without the intelligence), so I don't see anybody doing this.
Also, BIM is pretty much the de facto platform used by large, multi-national, multi-billion dollar consulting, design, or construction companies. If you want to become a Construction Manager, I suggest that finding employment there should be your long-term goal.
manoverde84
Apr 10, 16 12:39 am
Ok guys so your suggestions are to bypass autocad and move on to a BIM tool such as Revitt? Would I have to know autocad first to get BIM? There's also a Revitt course available that I could take too.
A.I.
Apr 10, 16 3:50 am
AutoCAD is 2D drawing made faster by a computer to represent how buildings are put together for construction. Clash detection and coordination are done manually on a per drawing basis.
BIM is a process of 3D modeling with information attached to also represent how buildings are put together for construction. BIM programs have sophisticated tools for automated clash detection and coordination.
At the end of the day, do you know how a building is put together? Humans have been putting structures together for thousands of years irrelevant of what process they use to get there. BIM is simply the next logical evolution in that process. That's all.
The "BIM vs. CAD" debate is stupid because it always devolves in a a 'fan-boy' battle over legacy vs. new, when the real discussion should be about how designers represent their work for construction.
manoverde84
Apr 10, 16 8:44 am
Such various opinions. Seems like the industry is at a crossroads when it comes to this. I just want to know if autocad is needed to understand a BIM tool such as Revitt? There are two courses at the local occupational center where I'm at; autocad and Revitt. Should I take both or just one? Do you need to understand the former to get the latter?
A.I.
Apr 10, 16 10:15 am
Take the Revit course.
If you already know how to read drawings and understand them, you don't need the CAD course for a CM focus. However, a CM that understands BIM and how its models are put together will be way more valuable in my opinion.
manoverde84
Apr 10, 16 12:17 pm
Description of the course BIM for CM:
Concepts related to the implantation of BIM in construction projects from the perspective of the general contractor. Topics include applications of BIM for visualization, marketing, quantity take-off, scheduling, coordination, and facilities management. Prerequisites: None; however, one should possess a fundamental knowledge of construction scheduling, cost controls, and project administration before taking this course.
That's the only course I've found that tackles BIM only that in aware of so far in the curriculum. And no I don't how to completely read a drawing. Should I just take a construction drawing reading course? Those are pretty easy to find online. I didn't find a course that only focuses on construction drawing reading in my curriculum. I figured it had to be taught in one of the fundamentals courses on materials.
But in your opinion skip autocad and go straight for Revit? I wouldn't need to know autocad if i knew Revit? But I know Revit then would i easily be able to know autocad? As in its advanced enough that knowing Revit, autocad would come much easier?
Last, about CM, the foundational post-bac certificate offers all the fundamentals: materials, estimating, scheduling, cost controls, structural principles, mechanical/electrical systems, and construction contracts. After that I could choose to go on to the masters which focuses a lot on advanced courses and research. The post bac is essentially almost a second bachelors degree. It has enough in it to prepare individuals for the American Institute of Constructors (AIC) Associate Constructor Level I Exam, if that helps to have at all.
Your thoughts....
AdrianFGA
Apr 10, 16 2:35 pm
^ @manoverde84 ^
By the time you get enrolled in any of those courses, you might want to try this free and legal software. It's a simple 2D drafting Cad program, which was - deliberately, perhaps - designed to look as closely as possible to Autocad, in terms of commands, GUI, etc. If you learn how to use it, you will understand the basics of how Autocad works.
Also, you might want to post your questions in the forums below. Chances are you will get much better answers over there, than here:
Thanks for the info and link! Actually my question has evolved thanks to this site. Now I'm hoping my program has as much BIM in it as possible and if I even need to continue past the post bac or go all the way to the masters?
I'm paying and spending a lot of time learning CAD both mechanical and architectual only to be told that it's going to practically be obsolete soon?? That's wild. BIM is the next big thing and it's not a program you can learn. I was told to learn revitt but should I drop out of my CAD classes and just learn Revitt? Or do I need to know CAD before learning a program like Revitt? I just want to be ahead of the game. Or should I just completely save my dough and just wait until I start my construction management degree in July? I'm enrolled in a masters in CM. There are a few courses on BIM in the curriculum. I just wanted to have both CAD skills and a CM degree to make me more competitive. But what should I do? Any advice will help. Thanks.
manoverde84, here are my 2 cents.
"I just want to be ahead of the game"
Then I suggest you focus almost exclusively on BIM, and keep Autocad / traditional Cad learning as a (very) low priority. Try to find a course similar in scope to this one , if you want to be ahead of the game. BIM is an information-sharing platform with a much higher interoperability and scalability than traditional Cad software. New meta-data is always included or added to BIM, hence new acronyms like 4D, 5D, or even 6D BIM. Also, with BIM, you can perfom a myriad of analyses using data transferred from other BIM-like programs.
Pure / vanilla Autocad will be around for a while, but increasingly as a legacy product, a bit like how mainframes and Cobol programs are still around. Personally, I see Autocad having some measure of future, only because of the vertical programs that use it as a platform.
To give you one significant example, construction managers - in large companies, that is - use Navisworks to perfom clash detection. On an average project, usually there are thousands of clashes found. Navisworks integrates data coming from various disciplines, this data is created using BIM or other similar 3D design parametric software - Revit Architecture, Revit Structure, Revit MEP, Inventor, Advance Steel, Tekla, to name a few. You may create 3D data using vanilla Autocad for this purpose, but you literally have to reach Revit-like standards of complexity (without the intelligence), so I don't see anybody doing this.
Also, BIM is pretty much the de facto platform used by large, multi-national, multi-billion dollar consulting, design, or construction companies. If you want to become a Construction Manager, I suggest that finding employment there should be your long-term goal.
Ok guys so your suggestions are to bypass autocad and move on to a BIM tool such as Revitt? Would I have to know autocad first to get BIM? There's also a Revitt course available that I could take too.
AutoCAD is 2D drawing made faster by a computer to represent how buildings are put together for construction. Clash detection and coordination are done manually on a per drawing basis.
BIM is a process of 3D modeling with information attached to also represent how buildings are put together for construction. BIM programs have sophisticated tools for automated clash detection and coordination.
At the end of the day, do you know how a building is put together? Humans have been putting structures together for thousands of years irrelevant of what process they use to get there. BIM is simply the next logical evolution in that process. That's all.
The "BIM vs. CAD" debate is stupid because it always devolves in a a 'fan-boy' battle over legacy vs. new, when the real discussion should be about how designers represent their work for construction.
Such various opinions. Seems like the industry is at a crossroads when it comes to this. I just want to know if autocad is needed to understand a BIM tool such as Revitt? There are two courses at the local occupational center where I'm at; autocad and Revitt. Should I take both or just one? Do you need to understand the former to get the latter?
Take the Revit course.
If you already know how to read drawings and understand them, you don't need the CAD course for a CM focus. However, a CM that understands BIM and how its models are put together will be way more valuable in my opinion.
Description of the course BIM for CM:
Concepts related to the implantation of BIM in construction projects from the perspective of the general contractor. Topics include applications of BIM for visualization, marketing, quantity take-off, scheduling, coordination, and facilities management. Prerequisites: None; however, one should possess a fundamental knowledge of construction scheduling, cost controls, and project administration before taking this course.
That's the only course I've found that tackles BIM only that in aware of so far in the curriculum. And no I don't how to completely read a drawing. Should I just take a construction drawing reading course? Those are pretty easy to find online. I didn't find a course that only focuses on construction drawing reading in my curriculum. I figured it had to be taught in one of the fundamentals courses on materials.
But in your opinion skip autocad and go straight for Revit? I wouldn't need to know autocad if i knew Revit? But I know Revit then would i easily be able to know autocad? As in its advanced enough that knowing Revit, autocad would come much easier?
Last, about CM, the foundational post-bac certificate offers all the fundamentals: materials, estimating, scheduling, cost controls, structural principles, mechanical/electrical systems, and construction contracts. After that I could choose to go on to the masters which focuses a lot on advanced courses and research. The post bac is essentially almost a second bachelors degree. It has enough in it to prepare individuals for the American Institute of Constructors (AIC) Associate Constructor Level I Exam, if that helps to have at all.
Your thoughts....
^ @manoverde84 ^
By the time you get enrolled in any of those courses, you might want to try this free and legal software. It's a simple 2D drafting Cad program, which was - deliberately, perhaps - designed to look as closely as possible to Autocad, in terms of commands, GUI, etc. If you learn how to use it, you will understand the basics of how Autocad works.
Also, you might want to post your questions in the forums below. Chances are you will get much better answers over there, than here:
http://www.revitforum.org/forum.php
http://forums.autodesk.com/
https://www.augi.com/
Thanks for the info and link! Actually my question has evolved thanks to this site. Now I'm hoping my program has as much BIM in it as possible and if I even need to continue past the post bac or go all the way to the masters?