I have 5 years experience and have a job captain role making 72k a year. I can't stand my job anymore though, it's the typical arrive at 8am and get belittled and cussed at for the next 9-10hrs for my lack of crystal ball reading skills, the works boring and I've hit a ceiling at advanced drafter CD set creator due to my bosses' inability to trust any project information with anyone. No matter what I do or how I do it, it's wrong and stupid to my boss and I'm just over it. How far of a drop in salary should I expect going to either another job captain role in hopefully a design build firm or a project engineer role in a CA firm. I just had an offer and they want to know salary expectations, I feel like they will laugh at me if I say 72k. The breakdown is 56k base 8k quaterly bonuses and the rest is overtime, I work in San Diego.
archiwutm8
Mar 15, 16 12:53 pm
I thought you were gonna quit the whole architecture game?
StarchitectAlpha
Mar 15, 16 12:57 pm
Slowly migrating over to CA so design build as the most architecture like job.
chigurh
Mar 15, 16 1:06 pm
Every job is dysfunctional, you just have to find an employer where their brand of dysfunction doesn't drive you up the fucking wall. Money is a good incentive to stay. If you go somewhere else you might get the same pay, less or more either way it is going to be fucked up in some way and you never know till you are there.
DeTwan
Mar 15, 16 1:09 pm
I rather start high, have them give you a counter offer, than start low and end low. That does seem like a pretty good salary only five years out though.
Josh Mings
Mar 15, 16 1:35 pm
I don't think so - I've been getting emails from recruiters lately for jobs in the 70-80k range. Same boat as you though - that's more than my base but with profit sharing, bonus, and overtime I'm in that range anyway.
StarchitectAlpha
Mar 15, 16 1:52 pm
Thanks Josh that's helpful, I bet that's a good feeling though knowing there's options! Hope that lasts a bit longer for everybody.
shellarchitect
Mar 15, 16 1:53 pm
I assume you already looked at the aia's salary survey? looks like 60ish is about the median. i'd wouldn't ask less than 65, just show your exp and why that's justified.
StarchitectAlpha
Mar 15, 16 2:41 pm
How come people on here say "you'll never do better than 80" then?
zonker
Mar 15, 16 3:04 pm
With the next recession just around the corner be careful you don't price yourself out of the market - esp in San Diego - I work up in the Bay area in order to have almost wall to wall employment.
btheyd
Mar 15, 16 3:31 pm
Speaking from experience on both sides of the table. Ask for what you want. If everything else is a fit, the money will work itself out in the negotiation. Either you will decide you'll accept less because other perks are attractive, or the employer will decide to spend the money to get you on board.
Make sure to analyze the entire compensation package (salary, bonus structure, HEALTHCARE, profit sharing, 401K CONTRIBUTION MATCHING, PTO (paid time off), Holidays, Education Reimbursement etc,).
Knowing a bit about the market helps too. LA and SF are slammed with work right now. There are not many qualified candidates without work. Employers in these cities are willing to pay top dollar to build their workforce. Not sure about the specifics of the SD market, but willing to guess its not too far off.
Good luck.
Carrera
Mar 15, 16 3:43 pm
The funny thing about "wrong and stupid" is, I was both every day until the day I opened my own practice, then I went 30 years without ever being "wrong and stupid".
shellarchitect
Mar 15, 16 3:49 pm
not sure who said never better than 80k
looks like the overall average is just below 80, so I'm thinking there are an awful lot of people (almost half) making more than that
Don't worry about the economy, lots of smart guys think it's fine, the scary headlines generate clicks and maybe change the way someone will vote. Besides, you can't change it anyway
StarchitectAlpha
Mar 15, 16 4:24 pm
Got it in the works carrera, realized I can do everything I wanted in architecture by getting a contractors license and becoming a builder, make more and take an easy $150 test plus bond insurance with a state board that hunts down non lincensed individuals and gives criminal charges. Way more than the architect board does.
StarchitectAlpha
Mar 15, 16 4:24 pm
Oh yeah, contractors can make LLC's too!
awaiting_deletion
Mar 15, 16 5:13 pm
get into ownership side. the fancy developers have you design via the designer. in other words they hire a starchitect for PR but ultimately you design it from cost to aesthetics to marketing.
archiwutm8
Mar 15, 16 6:06 pm
You could kinda be your own boss by being a contractor but it depends on your skill set, I could make 80k GBP as a c contractor in the UK which is way more than what I earn currently.
ArchNyen
Mar 15, 16 6:53 pm
will you tell your boss to stick it up his @$$ before you quit?
StarchitectAlpha
Mar 15, 16 7:23 pm
Ha ha all that would accomplish is to confirm his beliefs about millennials worthlessness. It would be more entertaining to set up shop next door and win his projects and build them.
sameolddoctor
Mar 15, 16 10:22 pm
Seems like you are getting paid decently. No wonder the work sucks. As a wise person once said:
In this business, choose 2 out of these 3 cuz thats only what you can get. Remember, that you WILL NOT get the 3rd you dont choose.:
1. Good Money
2. Good Work
3. Life Work Balance
Stasis
Mar 16, 16 1:15 am
to OP, i was in the same boat and went out to find another job. I am jumping from a large office to a small/medium size office where i can contribute from early conceptual design to CA. I enjoy both design and documentation but didn't want to stuck in just one area... I work in SF bay area and there are plenty of opportunities. In fact, firms are desperate to find people.. As for your salary, I feel that 72k base salary might be little too high for 5-6 yrs, but today's market, i'd say go for it. Also, you would have to look at the whole picture considering all the other benefits (401k, health, IDP/Licensure support, etc) . You should aim for a higher roles that you can grow into, rather than settling for what you do now.
Good Luck!
3tk
Mar 16, 16 12:33 pm
i'll echo package value not salary. always ask for the salary of the work you can easily grow into, it's not what you want but what you believe you're worth based on the role you'd like. I always figured if they're underpaying or low balling you it meant they weren't going to give you the responsibility you looked for. Flip side is also true - if they give you more responsibility and you perform well, they better pay you more or you'll find a place that does. Asking about 2~3yr pipeline and work outlook is probably smart: some firms are more resilient than others.
jmdaia
Mar 16, 16 1:23 pm
Whatever you do, don't burn your bridges.
null pointer
Mar 16, 16 2:17 pm
About two years ago, I got a call from a recruiter asking me if I'd be interested in working with a firm that is currently one of my biggest competitors. I explained that I was clearing 6 figures moonlighting, and that I'd be losing a five figure client if I joined the firm.
"You have less than 10 years of experience?" "Yeah" "How are you making that much?" "I fix things other people break." "We can't match that. You're not worth that much."
Then I stopped moonlighting and started running my firm full-time (last year). Should the pattern hold, I will have taken in twice as much as my asking yearly salary within the first 6 months of this year; most of it coming from clients that could have been that firm's clients, should they have chosen to hire me.
The problem in architecture is that people think architects are all commodities. Drafters might be expendable and interchangeable, but if you can make it rain, your employer shouldn't be looking at the AIA polls.
Stasis
Mar 16, 16 2:51 pm
Good point, Null Pointer... I wish i can do the same..
by the way, how do you guys feel about working with recruiters? I landed a job through a recruiter but I couldn't seem to get the highest salary i wanted. I think it is because the employers have to pay them a fee on the top of my salary...
it's convenient to work with them but working with them seems to have impact on your salary.....
I have 5 years experience and have a job captain role making 72k a year. I can't stand my job anymore though, it's the typical arrive at 8am and get belittled and cussed at for the next 9-10hrs for my lack of crystal ball reading skills, the works boring and I've hit a ceiling at advanced drafter CD set creator due to my bosses' inability to trust any project information with anyone. No matter what I do or how I do it, it's wrong and stupid to my boss and I'm just over it. How far of a drop in salary should I expect going to either another job captain role in hopefully a design build firm or a project engineer role in a CA firm. I just had an offer and they want to know salary expectations, I feel like they will laugh at me if I say 72k. The breakdown is 56k base 8k quaterly bonuses and the rest is overtime, I work in San Diego.
I thought you were gonna quit the whole architecture game?
Slowly migrating over to CA so design build as the most architecture like job.
Every job is dysfunctional, you just have to find an employer where their brand of dysfunction doesn't drive you up the fucking wall. Money is a good incentive to stay. If you go somewhere else you might get the same pay, less or more either way it is going to be fucked up in some way and you never know till you are there.
I rather start high, have them give you a counter offer, than start low and end low. That does seem like a pretty good salary only five years out though.
I don't think so - I've been getting emails from recruiters lately for jobs in the 70-80k range. Same boat as you though - that's more than my base but with profit sharing, bonus, and overtime I'm in that range anyway.
Thanks Josh that's helpful, I bet that's a good feeling though knowing there's options! Hope that lasts a bit longer for everybody.
I assume you already looked at the aia's salary survey? looks like 60ish is about the median. i'd wouldn't ask less than 65, just show your exp and why that's justified.
How come people on here say "you'll never do better than 80" then?
With the next recession just around the corner be careful you don't price yourself out of the market - esp in San Diego - I work up in the Bay area in order to have almost wall to wall employment.
Speaking from experience on both sides of the table. Ask for what you want. If everything else is a fit, the money will work itself out in the negotiation. Either you will decide you'll accept less because other perks are attractive, or the employer will decide to spend the money to get you on board.
Make sure to analyze the entire compensation package (salary, bonus structure, HEALTHCARE, profit sharing, 401K CONTRIBUTION MATCHING, PTO (paid time off), Holidays, Education Reimbursement etc,).
Knowing a bit about the market helps too. LA and SF are slammed with work right now. There are not many qualified candidates without work. Employers in these cities are willing to pay top dollar to build their workforce. Not sure about the specifics of the SD market, but willing to guess its not too far off.
Good luck.
The funny thing about "wrong and stupid" is, I was both every day until the day I opened my own practice, then I went 30 years without ever being "wrong and stupid".
not sure who said never better than 80k
looks like the overall average is just below 80, so I'm thinking there are an awful lot of people (almost half) making more than that
Don't worry about the economy, lots of smart guys think it's fine, the scary headlines generate clicks and maybe change the way someone will vote. Besides, you can't change it anyway
Got it in the works carrera, realized I can do everything I wanted in architecture by getting a contractors license and becoming a builder, make more and take an easy $150 test plus bond insurance with a state board that hunts down non lincensed individuals and gives criminal charges. Way more than the architect board does.
Oh yeah, contractors can make LLC's too!
get into ownership side. the fancy developers have you design via the designer. in other words they hire a starchitect for PR but ultimately you design it from cost to aesthetics to marketing.
You could kinda be your own boss by being a contractor but it depends on your skill set, I could make 80k GBP as a c contractor in the UK which is way more than what I earn currently.
will you tell your boss to stick it up his @$$ before you quit?
Ha ha all that would accomplish is to confirm his beliefs about millennials worthlessness. It would be more entertaining to set up shop next door and win his projects and build them.
Seems like you are getting paid decently. No wonder the work sucks. As a wise person once said:
In this business, choose 2 out of these 3 cuz thats only what you can get. Remember, that you WILL NOT get the 3rd you dont choose.:
1. Good Money
2. Good Work
3. Life Work Balance
to OP, i was in the same boat and went out to find another job. I am jumping from a large office to a small/medium size office where i can contribute from early conceptual design to CA. I enjoy both design and documentation but didn't want to stuck in just one area... I work in SF bay area and there are plenty of opportunities. In fact, firms are desperate to find people.. As for your salary, I feel that 72k base salary might be little too high for 5-6 yrs, but today's market, i'd say go for it. Also, you would have to look at the whole picture considering all the other benefits (401k, health, IDP/Licensure support, etc) . You should aim for a higher roles that you can grow into, rather than settling for what you do now.
Good Luck!
i'll echo package value not salary. always ask for the salary of the work you can easily grow into, it's not what you want but what you believe you're worth based on the role you'd like. I always figured if they're underpaying or low balling you it meant they weren't going to give you the responsibility you looked for. Flip side is also true - if they give you more responsibility and you perform well, they better pay you more or you'll find a place that does. Asking about 2~3yr pipeline and work outlook is probably smart: some firms are more resilient than others.
Whatever you do, don't burn your bridges.
About two years ago, I got a call from a recruiter asking me if I'd be interested in working with a firm that is currently one of my biggest competitors. I explained that I was clearing 6 figures moonlighting, and that I'd be losing a five figure client if I joined the firm.
"You have less than 10 years of experience?" "Yeah" "How are you making that much?" "I fix things other people break." "We can't match that. You're not worth that much."
Then I stopped moonlighting and started running my firm full-time (last year). Should the pattern hold, I will have taken in twice as much as my asking yearly salary within the first 6 months of this year; most of it coming from clients that could have been that firm's clients, should they have chosen to hire me.
The problem in architecture is that people think architects are all commodities. Drafters might be expendable and interchangeable, but if you can make it rain, your employer shouldn't be looking at the AIA polls.
Good point, Null Pointer... I wish i can do the same..
by the way, how do you guys feel about working with recruiters? I landed a job through a recruiter but I couldn't seem to get the highest salary i wanted. I think it is because the employers have to pay them a fee on the top of my salary...
it's convenient to work with them but working with them seems to have impact on your salary.....
^^ I always subtracted the fee from the salary.