I'm trying to get more background info on a house I recently purchased. It's in Minnesota and was built in 1874 but I don't know exactly how to describe the style. I'm wondering if it's likely the original exterior or if the look has been heavily modified over the years.
curtkram
Jan 19, 16 11:17 am
that's not a house at all.
x-jla
Jan 19, 16 11:30 am
It's either a Hank Lloyd Wright, or a Frank Lloyd Wrong. Hard to tell
ameza
Jan 19, 16 1:08 pm
geez, you guys really are a sarcastic bunch!
senjohnblutarsky
Jan 19, 16 1:17 pm
Sorry, the career choice drives us to it.
What is the layout inside? Stair on the right. Then on left (front to back) living, kitchen/dining, and maybe a third room?
Upstairs is probably two bedrooms at opposing ends, bathroom near the stair landing? Maybe a room in the middle?
poop876
Jan 19, 16 1:47 pm
Saint Paul sure did go through some rehab
ameza
Jan 19, 16 1:48 pm
yes, you basically described it - stair on right. To the left: living, formal dining, kitchen, then another room. upstairs, 2 bedrooms, then bathroom, then 2 more bedrooms. all the bedrooms are large size so I cannot imagine they were split at any point.
Most of the houses in the neighborhood are Queen Anns but I just can visualize this house being one in a former life.
@poop876 - you got it. stalker. And yes, St Paul has done a great job restoring many of the houses to their original glory. I don't know if this is restored accurate to the original or not but many of the Queen Anns are like-new.
Wood Guy
Jan 19, 16 2:20 pm
Ameza, that is a good example of Italianate architecture. Looks like the windows may have had arched sashes originally. The porch railings and skirting were likely replaced with simpler versions of the originals. The colors may have been a bit less drab, but earth-tones were the order of the day so maybe not. It appears to be mostly original, nice find!
poop876
Jan 19, 16 2:33 pm
Well if it was Queen Ann, now it's not. No turrets, symmetrical etc.! I would say something like American Foursquare?
senjohnblutarsky
Jan 19, 16 2:43 pm
Are the rooms all in a line with the circulation to the right, or do they wrap around to the right (behind the stair). Starts to get foursquare-ish if they wrap.
If it was intended to be italianate, they left off all the detailing.
poop876
Jan 19, 16 2:52 pm
I like this house! Good find!
ameza
Jan 19, 16 3:11 pm
The stairs are on the right, all of the rooms upstairs are to the left above the living, dining, kitchen etc. In front of the stairs at the top is a wall; it's a small laundry room which I know to be a new change; behind that the back bedroom spans the entire width of the house.
Isn't it too old to be an American Foursquare?
ameza
Jan 19, 16 3:20 pm
I am rereading your comment senjohnblutarsky and not quite sure what you mean by "wrap around. The stairs are on the far right wall. stair case is therefore to the right of the living and dining room but the kitchen and extra room behind that go the full width of the house.
Volunteer
Jan 19, 16 3:24 pm
I think it is a simplified version of Italianate. The roofline and the proportion of the windows as well as the slightly arched top of the windows seem to indicate Italianate. Certainly not the full Cleveland version, though.
Donna Sink
Jan 19, 16 4:14 pm
The OP said "You guys are a sarcastic bunch" and I'm thinking "Jeez, you guys are being uncharacteristically helpful here!" I'm jaded, apparently.
Check out some of the other "What style is my house" threads, ameza. You'll see that you're getting super helpful treatment. I'll just say to you what i always say to people asking about style: why does it matter? Why do you need to label it? You can see a few things here: the window proportions are tall and slim relative to contemporary windows, and originally woudl have been arched. I can virtually guarantee that the wide fascia board under the eaves is not original, because 1. it covers the arches and 2. it's too wide. Bizarrely, the facade isn't symmetrical. I'm also certain those porch posts aren't original, and very likely the entire porch isn't.
But what matters is: what do *you* like about the house?
ameza
Jan 19, 16 4:23 pm
Yes, I did look at some of the other posts before posting mine and I can tell I am getting very good treatment.
It matters to me because if I can understand the history of the house a bit better and what style it might be, I can hopefully restore some of those elements to their original. St Paul is know for a lot of well preserved 19th century houses and since I am going to be the owner of a 19th century home I want to also contribute back to the community by preserving the house's history.
I will be touch base with the St Paul Historical Society which hopefully can tell me a bit more as well.
Non Sequitur
Jan 19, 16 4:30 pm
Not sure about historical significance, but I'd have that natural gas meter relocated to the side yard asap.
Donna Sink
Jan 19, 16 4:31 pm
I'd say, if you aren't up for hiring an architect just yet, that the historical society is a great place to start. When you do decide to do some work, I'd strongly advise against just working with a builder. Even very good ones frequently come up with details and solutions to issues that are in the spirit of the historical style but are actually totally wrong and goofy-looking. but I'll bet there are 20 older architect sole proprietor types in your city who could do well by the house and neighborhood.
senjohnblutarsky
Jan 19, 16 5:05 pm
I can't speak for the others, but I'm more willing to help because it's a style that doesn't suck.
This isn't just another "Identify my generic builder mcmansion" thread.
If someone showed up every day wanting identification of American Craftsman houses, I'd be fairly content.
Wilma Buttfit
Jan 19, 16 6:03 pm
Simple Italianate maybe? Field Guide to American Houses is a good book if you want to study such things. Or take your picture into a local Historical Society type of place, they could probably tell you some things.
Donna Sink
Jan 19, 16 6:29 pm
senatorjohn, I just find it weird that people don't know what they're buying. It takes at minimum 30 days to buy a house, don't people investigate? Don't the real estate listings all say "Gorgeous updated Italianate with gleaming hardwoods" and all that other tripe? Would someone really buy a Craftsman Bungalow not knowing what it is?!
poop876
Jan 19, 16 8:01 pm
Donna, you are assuming people care about the style when buying. Many people look at the price, location, quality first. Getting approved, winning the offer, closing etc. So it doesn't does not cross their mind. Then when they are finally relieved that they got the house... They think about other things.
Non Sequitur
Jan 19, 16 8:04 pm
^Donna, a few month's back I purchased an early 60's bungalow and totally showed my hand when my house inspector observed me admiring the deeply raked mortar joints. We didn't even get past the front door and he already knew I was an architect. Couldn't help myself.
ameza
Jan 19, 16 8:51 pm
Donna, you even said it yourself in your first post, "why does it matter? Why do you need to label it?". as poop876 pointed out, price and location are first on my mind followed by what the condition is... and I'm not opposed to fixing up a place if the first two criteria match up. But yeah the real estate listing would have sounded a lot better the way you worded it.
Yes, I'm definitely for hiring architects and engineers if warranted. I haven't had the best of luck dealing with contractors so I don't trust them.
Carrera
Jan 19, 16 9:00 pm
Federal Style, closely neighboring Adams Style with its center gable, albeit remodeled over time.
Miles Jaffe
Jan 19, 16 10:11 pm
^ That was my feeling too. Not a purebred by any means, but the influence is there. Cute house, I like the proportion of the windows. There's a Federal style house near me with very tall narrow 2 over 2 windows that are about 6' high and barely 2' wide. Absolutely beautiful. Or it was until they put vinyl siding on it.
Carrera
Jan 19, 16 10:30 pm
^ Strong example, porch can easily be corrected.
Guess what I visited today Miles? Bucky’s house at The Henry Ford…copy 1 of 1, first guy to rethink the house….too bad nobody likes smart guys.
ameza
Jan 20, 16 1:28 pm
FYI I heard back from the historic society. They designated it as an Italianate. The oldest photo they have of it in their index is from 1981... but there may be older pictures if I dig through their unindexed archives. They stated its historic condition as "altered slightly" and note that the rear is an addition. I'm guessing the room past the kitchen isn't original. So it would have been 3 rooms down and 2-3 bedrooms up. This is pretty cool learning about this.
Photo from 1981
senjohnblutarsky
Jan 20, 16 1:54 pm
Yeah, the room past the kitchen threw me off when you said it was there. Just not really the typical thing in houses of this sort.
The current porch is a marked improvement over the 1981 verstion. I would still be tempted to do something about the skirt. Can't tell what the material is in the picture, but it's not doing the structure any favors.
ameza
Jan 20, 16 2:11 pm
yeah I think the entire porch would be a good place to start... I'd consult some historic home experts and/or architects to get something closer to original style. From what I know of homes in that era, the woodwork was much more ornate.
Carrera
Jan 20, 16 2:42 pm
No matter to me, but Italianate eaves are bracketed, windows have elaborate crowns...low pitched roofs.
anonitect
Jan 21, 16 2:57 pm
Yeah, somebody definitely messed with the eaves. That wide frieze(?) board that extends all the way down to the window arches looks clunky - I agree with others, willing to bet that it replaced brackets.
Leandro Llorente
Feb 22, 16 1:56 am
Your concern should not be the look but the "safety" of the building. Check for presence of asbestos or highly-flammable materials.
poop876
Feb 22, 16 8:41 am
Leandro,
I'm sure all of that was covered during the inspections before purchase especially considering the age of the home!
I'm trying to get more background info on a house I recently purchased. It's in Minnesota and was built in 1874 but I don't know exactly how to describe the style. I'm wondering if it's likely the original exterior or if the look has been heavily modified over the years.
that's not a house at all.
It's either a Hank Lloyd Wright, or a Frank Lloyd Wrong. Hard to tell
geez, you guys really are a sarcastic bunch!
Sorry, the career choice drives us to it.
What is the layout inside? Stair on the right. Then on left (front to back) living, kitchen/dining, and maybe a third room?
Upstairs is probably two bedrooms at opposing ends, bathroom near the stair landing? Maybe a room in the middle?
Saint Paul sure did go through some rehab
yes, you basically described it - stair on right. To the left: living, formal dining, kitchen, then another room. upstairs, 2 bedrooms, then bathroom, then 2 more bedrooms. all the bedrooms are large size so I cannot imagine they were split at any point.
Most of the houses in the neighborhood are Queen Anns but I just can visualize this house being one in a former life.
@poop876 - you got it. stalker. And yes, St Paul has done a great job restoring many of the houses to their original glory. I don't know if this is restored accurate to the original or not but many of the Queen Anns are like-new.
Ameza, that is a good example of Italianate architecture. Looks like the windows may have had arched sashes originally. The porch railings and skirting were likely replaced with simpler versions of the originals. The colors may have been a bit less drab, but earth-tones were the order of the day so maybe not. It appears to be mostly original, nice find!
Well if it was Queen Ann, now it's not. No turrets, symmetrical etc.! I would say something like American Foursquare?
Are the rooms all in a line with the circulation to the right, or do they wrap around to the right (behind the stair). Starts to get foursquare-ish if they wrap.
If it was intended to be italianate, they left off all the detailing.
I like this house! Good find!
The stairs are on the right, all of the rooms upstairs are to the left above the living, dining, kitchen etc. In front of the stairs at the top is a wall; it's a small laundry room which I know to be a new change; behind that the back bedroom spans the entire width of the house.
Isn't it too old to be an American Foursquare?
I am rereading your comment senjohnblutarsky and not quite sure what you mean by "wrap around. The stairs are on the far right wall. stair case is therefore to the right of the living and dining room but the kitchen and extra room behind that go the full width of the house.
I think it is a simplified version of Italianate. The roofline and the proportion of the windows as well as the slightly arched top of the windows seem to indicate Italianate. Certainly not the full Cleveland version, though.
The OP said "You guys are a sarcastic bunch" and I'm thinking "Jeez, you guys are being uncharacteristically helpful here!" I'm jaded, apparently.
Check out some of the other "What style is my house" threads, ameza. You'll see that you're getting super helpful treatment. I'll just say to you what i always say to people asking about style: why does it matter? Why do you need to label it? You can see a few things here: the window proportions are tall and slim relative to contemporary windows, and originally woudl have been arched. I can virtually guarantee that the wide fascia board under the eaves is not original, because 1. it covers the arches and 2. it's too wide. Bizarrely, the facade isn't symmetrical. I'm also certain those porch posts aren't original, and very likely the entire porch isn't.
But what matters is: what do *you* like about the house?
Yes, I did look at some of the other posts before posting mine and I can tell I am getting very good treatment.
It matters to me because if I can understand the history of the house a bit better and what style it might be, I can hopefully restore some of those elements to their original. St Paul is know for a lot of well preserved 19th century houses and since I am going to be the owner of a 19th century home I want to also contribute back to the community by preserving the house's history.
I will be touch base with the St Paul Historical Society which hopefully can tell me a bit more as well.
Not sure about historical significance, but I'd have that natural gas meter relocated to the side yard asap.
I'd say, if you aren't up for hiring an architect just yet, that the historical society is a great place to start. When you do decide to do some work, I'd strongly advise against just working with a builder. Even very good ones frequently come up with details and solutions to issues that are in the spirit of the historical style but are actually totally wrong and goofy-looking. but I'll bet there are 20 older architect sole proprietor types in your city who could do well by the house and neighborhood.
I can't speak for the others, but I'm more willing to help because it's a style that doesn't suck.
This isn't just another "Identify my generic builder mcmansion" thread.
If someone showed up every day wanting identification of American Craftsman houses, I'd be fairly content.
Simple Italianate maybe? Field Guide to American Houses is a good book if you want to study such things. Or take your picture into a local Historical Society type of place, they could probably tell you some things.
senatorjohn, I just find it weird that people don't know what they're buying. It takes at minimum 30 days to buy a house, don't people investigate? Don't the real estate listings all say "Gorgeous updated Italianate with gleaming hardwoods" and all that other tripe? Would someone really buy a Craftsman Bungalow not knowing what it is?!
Donna, you are assuming people care about the style when buying. Many people look at the price, location, quality first. Getting approved, winning the offer, closing etc. So it doesn't does not cross their mind. Then when they are finally relieved that they got the house... They think about other things.
^Donna, a few month's back I purchased an early 60's bungalow and totally showed my hand when my house inspector observed me admiring the deeply raked mortar joints. We didn't even get past the front door and he already knew I was an architect. Couldn't help myself.
Donna, you even said it yourself in your first post, "why does it matter? Why do you need to label it?". as poop876 pointed out, price and location are first on my mind followed by what the condition is... and I'm not opposed to fixing up a place if the first two criteria match up. But yeah the real estate listing would have sounded a lot better the way you worded it.
Yes, I'm definitely for hiring architects and engineers if warranted. I haven't had the best of luck dealing with contractors so I don't trust them.
Federal Style, closely neighboring Adams Style with its center gable, albeit remodeled over time.
^ That was my feeling too. Not a purebred by any means, but the influence is there. Cute house, I like the proportion of the windows. There's a Federal style house near me with very tall narrow 2 over 2 windows that are about 6' high and barely 2' wide. Absolutely beautiful. Or it was until they put vinyl siding on it.
^ Strong example, porch can easily be corrected.
Guess what I visited today Miles? Bucky’s house at The Henry Ford…copy 1 of 1, first guy to rethink the house….too bad nobody likes smart guys.
FYI I heard back from the historic society. They designated it as an Italianate. The oldest photo they have of it in their index is from 1981... but there may be older pictures if I dig through their unindexed archives. They stated its historic condition as "altered slightly" and note that the rear is an addition. I'm guessing the room past the kitchen isn't original. So it would have been 3 rooms down and 2-3 bedrooms up. This is pretty cool learning about this.
Photo from 1981
Yeah, the room past the kitchen threw me off when you said it was there. Just not really the typical thing in houses of this sort.
The current porch is a marked improvement over the 1981 verstion. I would still be tempted to do something about the skirt. Can't tell what the material is in the picture, but it's not doing the structure any favors.
yeah I think the entire porch would be a good place to start... I'd consult some historic home experts and/or architects to get something closer to original style. From what I know of homes in that era, the woodwork was much more ornate.
No matter to me, but Italianate eaves are bracketed, windows have elaborate crowns...low pitched roofs.
Yeah, somebody definitely messed with the eaves. That wide frieze(?) board that extends all the way down to the window arches looks clunky - I agree with others, willing to bet that it replaced brackets.
Your concern should not be the look but the "safety" of the building. Check for presence of asbestos or highly-flammable materials.
Leandro,
I'm sure all of that was covered during the inspections before purchase especially considering the age of the home!