I'm just curious whether any of you have successfully worked full-time or part-time while pursuing a 3-year M.ARCH? Is that feasible with the course load? My only experience with studio culture is Career Discovery.
After visiting a ton of open-houses, it seems like that outside jobs are frowned upon but i don't think working in a computer lab or TA-ing is enough either, and TA-ing is not an option for first years anyways.
My background is in IT, and I'm considering asking my current job whether I can switch to part-time if I start an M.ARCH program in the fall. I'm also a freelance real estate photographer, so I'm hoping to do that on weekends as well. I want to graduate with as little debt as possible.
What worked for you guys? How did you pay for school? Did you snag some nice scholarships, or did you just take out a ton of loans? Or work a couple part-time jobs?
Thanks!!
SneakyPete
Jan 4, 16 7:20 pm
Look outside the department. If the library has a technology or printing lab, apply. I got a tuition waiver and also got paid outside the arch department. The arch department didn't feel like offering me anything, and what they typically offered was weak tea compared with the library assistantships.
Regarding working during school, don't let them make it an issue. "Frowned upon" is just their way of trying to control you. Don't let them, don't apologize, but also don't waste their time. Get your shit done, get it done well, and SHOW UP. Don't give them rope to hang you with, but don't let them dictate what you're capable of.
SpontaneousCombustion
Jan 4, 16 10:29 pm
I had teaching assistantships or fellowships in all but my first semester - sometimes two per semester. I also had a part-time job in a local firm - I never got the sense that it was at all "frowned upon" by the university. It's grad school - you're expected to manage your own life. For the most part on-campus jobs other than TA or TF didn't pay enough to make them worth the time, and by the time I was in grad school I was much more interested in putting my time into jobs in real firms anyway.
I also got some good scholarships and grants. I had some loans, to make ends meet in some semesters, but not nearly as much in loans as I had as an undergrad.
Josh Mings
Jan 4, 16 11:00 pm
It's always possible. It's more about can you sustain the hours you want to work with keeping the GPA that you want. I worked while in school. Had no social life, but otherwise I made it work.
situationist
Jan 4, 16 11:20 pm
I worked 40+ hours a week at an arch firm during my MArch - with a baby at home. It certainly wasn't easy, but after some struggle in the beginning I quickly learned how to manage (and protect) my time and to just push on when things weren't perfect. Ended up with very little debt and a good job upon graduation.
archiwutm8
Jan 5, 16 6:29 am
Did some trading and selling on eBay, few mates did Forex with algorithmic trading to make some extra money. Or you know..part time jobs in restaurants/retail works too.
David Cole, AIA
Jan 5, 16 7:11 am
I worked at a bar a few hours a week during some of my time in grad school. It was nice because it was a fun gig and the hours didn't conflict with my studies, and it was also great for networking (the owners and a couple of the staff were among my first freelance clients). The money I earned wasn't a substitute for student loans, but it was nice to have a few extra bucks for spending money per week, plus the occasional free drinks and built-in opportunities for socializing away from the studio.
Lee Robert
Jan 5, 16 8:56 am
I worked in a small design office 2-3 afternoons a week while in school, and I really think it made for a better educational experience.
I had to really manage my time and work efficiently as opposed so sitting in studio all night fussing with pieces of my projects that weren't imperceivable to others. I learned what was an appropriate amount of time to spend on certain tasks which was a very helpful lesson to learn early on.
It also gave me spending money and turned into my first real job after graduation. So, I'd say it worked out very well for me, and I'd recommend it to anyone considering it.
Quentin P
Jan 5, 16 10:08 am
Yea I TA'ed and work PT for a firm during my M.Arch, it was rough but not too bad.
Zaina
Jan 5, 16 10:42 am
I could make good money simply assisting other students with their assigned tasks...
zonker
Jan 5, 16 11:46 am
I did - Worked as a 3D artist at a video game company and studied for my M.arch at same time - how did I do it? used Maya for both work and architecture - Professors wanted me to quit work and game studio wanted me to quit school -
"Adapt, Improvise, Overcome" its about doing what it takes no matter what
archiwutm8
Jan 5, 16 11:50 am
Xenakis - That sounds absolutely awesome and I'd love to move into games and especially a 3D Artist.
Any advice on what to do and learn?
3tk
Jan 5, 16 12:31 pm
I worked both TAing courses and a part time job. The former helped build a resume for teaching/academia. It didn't pay much, but it also helped to get to know the faculty socially and get some good mentoring time. The latter was 10~30hrs/wk depending on the week at an engineering/planning firm - learned a lot of the business side of things as well as the technical knowledge in site planning and engineering. I still have a massive student loan balance, but the experience made it possible to consistently field multiple offers from firms I want to work for (even through the downturn, crossing my fingers on the next one).
The reason it's 'frowned upon' by some faculty is that it can distract you from fully diving into the academic work, especially studio. That being said, when we're working it is critical to be efficient and to know when to stop meddling on the unimportant stuff (we get paid for work done, not time spent working). Many of my classmates had families and jobs, it helped them be very efficient in their approach to school (you'll notice that for some its their sole social life) - they may not have had the most impressive work on the walls (though often they did), but had a clearer understanding of their intent and work method.
Best of luck
RazanALT
Jan 5, 16 6:54 pm
Thanks everyone for all the shared experiences. I'm sure this is helpful for a ton of prospective M.ARCH students. Paying for this degree was definitely a top concern among the prospective students I chatted with at open houses.
zonker
Jan 5, 16 7:25 pm
archiwutm8
Interesting that you ask - two of the principals for the game studio I worked for had architecture degrees - at one time, back in the days of PS2 and PS3, X-box - an architecture, graphic design and or industrial design degree was the ticket. Now many schools offer degrees in game development
Is the game developer racket as much of a grind as the architecture racket?
59 K for a grad degree... ouch.
zonker
Jan 5, 16 8:03 pm
SneakyPete
Lets put it this way - I used to work for Rockstar games and switching to architecture was like being on vacation by comparison - I got out just when the mandatory hours became hardcore - game studios like Zynga can have you there 80 hours a week - and if you don't produce(your productivity is monitored by software) you get fired - people may talk smack about architecture - let em try games
SneakyPete
Jan 5, 16 8:09 pm
Ugh, what a shame.
archiwutm8
Jan 6, 16 4:11 am
You worked for Rockstar? Holy fudge, that's like the holy grail of studios to work for isn't it? Although game devs look like they never sleep, are you telling me not to try and pursue it?
"productivity is monitored" what does this exactly mean in terms of productivity?
zonker
Jan 6, 16 2:30 pm
archiwutm8
R* was fun when I was there - my intent was to roll what I leaned into architecture and I did -
You might consider that as a possibility -
Its tough - so is architecture at many firms -
It really comes down to what you want to do - Don't let anyone discourage you
People in game dev. said I was jumping from the frying pan into the fire to switch to architecture - they were wrong - that is until the recession hit -
Game dev. is recession proof - At R*, we rode out recessions without noticing them
"Although game devs look like they never sleep" People burn out - the average career span is 2 - 3 years - Many others are still in games 20+ years later - I track everyone on Linkedin.
"productivity is monitored" - I think I read that in the SF Chronicle and Glassdoor
archiwutm8
Jan 7, 16 3:44 am
I'd be really interested in asking you more questions about your time as a 3D Artist and the skills you translated into architecture.
Like what did you did mostly and what "software/computer" skills you used the most. Do you have examples of work you could share?
zonker
Jan 7, 16 11:59 am
archiwutm8
What I dd there was environment design - I worked on city based games - Midtown Madness - MidNight Club 1,2,3 and4(MC Los Angeles) and Red Dead Redemption - design of city scenes and all buildings using Maya - From that I decided that these tools could be used for architecture and began studying for my M.arch used Maya in arch school same as at R* - then learned Revit - after graduation began work at SOM at the time(2007) they were one of the leaders in BIM having just completed the design of WTC 1 - great transition from games to arch -
Was Maya necessary? could it not have been done in 3DS Max?
zonker
Jan 7, 16 12:40 pm
archiwutm8
We used 3D Max on Midnight Club 1 as well as a bunch of other games - it was too cumbersome for our process - difficult to integrate with RAGE(RockstarAngelGameEngine)
The programmers found Maya more malleable from a code standpoint and it was easier to write Mel scripts that everyone understood - also Maya was faster and with Instances for building components(just like Revit Families) we could build our buildings and cities faster and be able to revise quickly - it became one big BIM system - we also used sketchup for level design.
archiwutm8
Jan 7, 16 12:52 pm
Really? interesting, I always thought all studios used Max to do all environments, would you suggest I switch from MAX and learn Maya from scratch? Sketchup, didn't see that one coming.
Apologies for these questions, I know they're off topic.
zonker
Jan 7, 16 1:32 pm
Maya and (Rhino + Grasshopper) Zaha Hadid uses Maya
Hi all,
I'm just curious whether any of you have successfully worked full-time or part-time while pursuing a 3-year M.ARCH? Is that feasible with the course load? My only experience with studio culture is Career Discovery.
After visiting a ton of open-houses, it seems like that outside jobs are frowned upon but i don't think working in a computer lab or TA-ing is enough either, and TA-ing is not an option for first years anyways.
My background is in IT, and I'm considering asking my current job whether I can switch to part-time if I start an M.ARCH program in the fall. I'm also a freelance real estate photographer, so I'm hoping to do that on weekends as well. I want to graduate with as little debt as possible.
What worked for you guys? How did you pay for school? Did you snag some nice scholarships, or did you just take out a ton of loans? Or work a couple part-time jobs?
Thanks!!
Look outside the department. If the library has a technology or printing lab, apply. I got a tuition waiver and also got paid outside the arch department. The arch department didn't feel like offering me anything, and what they typically offered was weak tea compared with the library assistantships.
Regarding working during school, don't let them make it an issue. "Frowned upon" is just their way of trying to control you. Don't let them, don't apologize, but also don't waste their time. Get your shit done, get it done well, and SHOW UP. Don't give them rope to hang you with, but don't let them dictate what you're capable of.
I had teaching assistantships or fellowships in all but my first semester - sometimes two per semester. I also had a part-time job in a local firm - I never got the sense that it was at all "frowned upon" by the university. It's grad school - you're expected to manage your own life. For the most part on-campus jobs other than TA or TF didn't pay enough to make them worth the time, and by the time I was in grad school I was much more interested in putting my time into jobs in real firms anyway.
I also got some good scholarships and grants. I had some loans, to make ends meet in some semesters, but not nearly as much in loans as I had as an undergrad.
It's always possible. It's more about can you sustain the hours you want to work with keeping the GPA that you want. I worked while in school. Had no social life, but otherwise I made it work.
I worked 40+ hours a week at an arch firm during my MArch - with a baby at home. It certainly wasn't easy, but after some struggle in the beginning I quickly learned how to manage (and protect) my time and to just push on when things weren't perfect. Ended up with very little debt and a good job upon graduation.
Did some trading and selling on eBay, few mates did Forex with algorithmic trading to make some extra money. Or you know..part time jobs in restaurants/retail works too.
I worked at a bar a few hours a week during some of my time in grad school. It was nice because it was a fun gig and the hours didn't conflict with my studies, and it was also great for networking (the owners and a couple of the staff were among my first freelance clients). The money I earned wasn't a substitute for student loans, but it was nice to have a few extra bucks for spending money per week, plus the occasional free drinks and built-in opportunities for socializing away from the studio.
I worked in a small design office 2-3 afternoons a week while in school, and I really think it made for a better educational experience.
I had to really manage my time and work efficiently as opposed so sitting in studio all night fussing with pieces of my projects that weren't imperceivable to others. I learned what was an appropriate amount of time to spend on certain tasks which was a very helpful lesson to learn early on.
It also gave me spending money and turned into my first real job after graduation. So, I'd say it worked out very well for me, and I'd recommend it to anyone considering it.
Yea I TA'ed and work PT for a firm during my M.Arch, it was rough but not too bad.
I could make good money simply assisting other students with their assigned tasks...
I did - Worked as a 3D artist at a video game company and studied for my M.arch at same time - how did I do it? used Maya for both work and architecture - Professors wanted me to quit work and game studio wanted me to quit school -
"Adapt, Improvise, Overcome" its about doing what it takes no matter what
Xenakis - That sounds absolutely awesome and I'd love to move into games and especially a 3D Artist.
Any advice on what to do and learn?
I worked both TAing courses and a part time job. The former helped build a resume for teaching/academia. It didn't pay much, but it also helped to get to know the faculty socially and get some good mentoring time. The latter was 10~30hrs/wk depending on the week at an engineering/planning firm - learned a lot of the business side of things as well as the technical knowledge in site planning and engineering. I still have a massive student loan balance, but the experience made it possible to consistently field multiple offers from firms I want to work for (even through the downturn, crossing my fingers on the next one).
The reason it's 'frowned upon' by some faculty is that it can distract you from fully diving into the academic work, especially studio. That being said, when we're working it is critical to be efficient and to know when to stop meddling on the unimportant stuff (we get paid for work done, not time spent working). Many of my classmates had families and jobs, it helped them be very efficient in their approach to school (you'll notice that for some its their sole social life) - they may not have had the most impressive work on the walls (though often they did), but had a clearer understanding of their intent and work method.
Best of luck
Thanks everyone for all the shared experiences. I'm sure this is helpful for a ton of prospective M.ARCH students. Paying for this degree was definitely a top concern among the prospective students I chatted with at open houses.
archiwutm8
Interesting that you ask - two of the principals for the game studio I worked for had architecture degrees - at one time, back in the days of PS2 and PS3, X-box - an architecture, graphic design and or industrial design degree was the ticket. Now many schools offer degrees in game development
for exa.
http://www.academyart.edu/academics/game-development/graduate-degrees
Is the game developer racket as much of a grind as the architecture racket?
59 K for a grad degree... ouch.
SneakyPete
Lets put it this way - I used to work for Rockstar games and switching to architecture was like being on vacation by comparison - I got out just when the mandatory hours became hardcore - game studios like Zynga can have you there 80 hours a week - and if you don't produce(your productivity is monitored by software) you get fired - people may talk smack about architecture - let em try games
Ugh, what a shame.
You worked for Rockstar? Holy fudge, that's like the holy grail of studios to work for isn't it? Although game devs look like they never sleep, are you telling me not to try and pursue it?
"productivity is monitored" what does this exactly mean in terms of productivity?
archiwutm8
R* was fun when I was there - my intent was to roll what I leaned into architecture and I did -
You might consider that as a possibility -
Its tough - so is architecture at many firms -
It really comes down to what you want to do - Don't let anyone discourage you
People in game dev. said I was jumping from the frying pan into the fire to switch to architecture - they were wrong - that is until the recession hit -
Game dev. is recession proof - At R*, we rode out recessions without noticing them
"Although game devs look like they never sleep" People burn out - the average career span is 2 - 3 years - Many others are still in games 20+ years later - I track everyone on Linkedin.
"productivity is monitored" - I think I read that in the SF Chronicle and Glassdoor
I'd be really interested in asking you more questions about your time as a 3D Artist and the skills you translated into architecture.
Like what did you did mostly and what "software/computer" skills you used the most. Do you have examples of work you could share?
archiwutm8
What I dd there was environment design - I worked on city based games - Midtown Madness - MidNight Club 1,2,3 and4(MC Los Angeles) and Red Dead Redemption - design of city scenes and all buildings using Maya - From that I decided that these tools could be used for architecture and began studying for my M.arch used Maya in arch school same as at R* - then learned Revit - after graduation began work at SOM at the time(2007) they were one of the leaders in BIM having just completed the design of WTC 1 - great transition from games to arch -
http://www.rockstargames.com/midnightclubLA/
Was Maya necessary? could it not have been done in 3DS Max?
archiwutm8
We used 3D Max on Midnight Club 1 as well as a bunch of other games - it was too cumbersome for our process - difficult to integrate with RAGE(RockstarAngelGameEngine)
The programmers found Maya more malleable from a code standpoint and it was easier to write Mel scripts that everyone understood - also Maya was faster and with Instances for building components(just like Revit Families) we could build our buildings and cities faster and be able to revise quickly - it became one big BIM system - we also used sketchup for level design.
Really? interesting, I always thought all studios used Max to do all environments, would you suggest I switch from MAX and learn Maya from scratch? Sketchup, didn't see that one coming.
Apologies for these questions, I know they're off topic.
Maya and (Rhino + Grasshopper) Zaha Hadid uses Maya
the "Godfather" of Parametric modeling
http://www.arcspace.com/articles/interview-patrik-schumacher/