I am wondering how widespread the use of contract or temporary employees in architectural firms is. What has been your experience.
In Chicago I have been temp or contract for 6 out of the last 7 gigs over 3 years some of the temp assignments lasting over a year others very short. The Latest assignment that ended as we reached a huge deadline was only 2 months.
I was told by someone who works full time at the last place and who is well connected knowledgeable of the industry, that he estimates that 40% of the workforce in architecture are temps. This is especially true for the production staff whom are often unlicensed but experienced in Revit and or CAD.
Share your thoughts and or experiences.
Over and OUT
Peter N
geezertect
Dec 19, 15 7:03 pm
I don't have any personal experience, but what you ask doesn't surprise me. It is getting to be widespread all across the economy. Everything is throw-away including throw-away people. Yuck. Glad to be retired.
Just one more reason to avoid this dying profession.
DeTwan
Dec 19, 15 7:53 pm
I think the temp placement companies just capitalized on the influx of outta work architecture related employees after the collapse of 2008. They collected the resumes of thousands and thousands of ppl outta work in the architecture industry and looking for anything. Once construction started to boom in late 2012 again, a lot of business owners were hesitant to hire full time in fear of having to lay off employees again in a shaky economy. No one likes to fire hard working employees. The architecture industry is so bloated with entry to mid range individuals willing to do anything to say they 'design buildings', it allows the employer to not feel guilty when the work runs dry and the 'contract' ends, and allows for the temp companies to skim off the top.... that's why
If I am not mistaken, wasn't there suppose to be a shortage of architects in 2014? Whatever that means???
shellarchitect
Dec 19, 15 8:58 pm
Good question, I had a couple contact jobs in the depths of the recession, but haven't heard of many recently. Curious to hear how common it is
no_form
Dec 20, 15 12:34 am
If a company hires you as an independent contractor with promise of putting you on payroll they are cheap and if possible avoided.
wurdan freo
Dec 20, 15 1:15 pm
Ha! Really thought this thread was about something else... of course.. everything is temporary.
Ecclesiastes 2:11, “Yet when I surveyed all that my hands had done and what I had toiled to achieve, everything was meaningless, a chasing after the wind; nothing was gained under the sun.”
"What is born will die,
What has been gathered will be dispersed,
What has been accumulated will be exhausted,
What has been built up will collapse,
And what has been high will be brought low." - Buddha
null pointer
Dec 20, 15 1:49 pm
If you're being hired as a temp for any less than 150/hour by another firm and you're licensed, you're being tricked.
Whenever I do consulting for other architects, I add a premium for "my name not being put on the drawings" (marketing fee); which I do pretty often.
David Cole, AIA
Dec 20, 15 3:11 pm
The largest and most profitable studio within one of Cincinnati's largest firms has about half their staff classified as "contract" workers with no benefits, no overtime, and no job security -- even though they're technically on the payroll as full-time employees with W2 forms, withholding, etc. The possibility of being made "permanent" someday is dangled in front of them like a carrot, even though the firm is notorious for high turnover and a hire-and-fire mentality. Their contract staff only recently became eligible for health coverage thanks to the Affordable Care Act.
This is where I ended up when I came back from NYC this past spring, despite no mention of being a contract worker occurring during the entire interview process. I took the offer because I needed the job and my other lead hadn't panned out (another fun story), but I moved on to another employer as soon as I could. Ironic part is how the first firm acted as if I somehow owed them my undying loyalty just for being given the opportunity to be a temp CAD monkey there. The entire experience left an incredibly bitter taste in my mouth, and destroyed whatever goodwill I used to have toward this particular firm.
My current gig is also more-or-less temporary because I had pretty much already made the decision to move to Seattle by the time I was interviewing with them, and I was upfront about my plans during the interview process. But they were swamped with work and willing to offer me full-time benefits during my time there, so it's a mutually-beneficial arrangement.
My biggest motivation for getting my license is finally having the option to work for myself. Of course that has its own host of issues, but at least I'll no longer be limited to always being somebody else's employee.
awaiting_deletion
Dec 20, 15 3:44 pm
peter i realized early on this is a very job based profession and willingly switched to consulting (contracting) and have made a real living since. for the most part architecture can't be stable.
StarchitectAlpha
Dec 20, 15 5:32 pm
@David Cole, the acting as though you owed them something part really stood out. I've experienced it and coworkers have talked about it, employers seem to sometimes honestly believe being given the opputunity to work in the field is part of the compensation package and act as though you are a scumball when you eventually tell them you are leaving for a place that pays twice as much and gives benefits.
StarchitectAlpha: Agree 100%. Funny thing is, it's always the absolute worst employers who have this mentality. I've worked for some real dickbags, and the one thing they all have in common is their complete inability to deal with it like a professional when an employee hands in their resignation notice. One particularly terrible former employer even removed me from the payroll system and rejected all my IDP hours the minute I handed in my notice, even though he had nothing but praise for my work beforehand.
But I've also been fortunate to have worked for some truly good firms who do great design and still manage to treat their employees with respect. No employer will ever be perfect, but even if I'm no longer employed by them, I'll always go out of my way to give those firms a shout-out on social media -- like sharing a recent project they've had published or an AIA ward they received -- or recommend them to talented people in the job market who are looking for a place to work. Loyalty is earned, not an entitlement.
StarchitectAlpha
Dec 20, 15 11:59 pm
Exactly, and you work harder for the good ones as well.
3tk
Dec 21, 15 4:46 pm
^+1 last few that were good to me, I gave them 8 weeks notice, recruited and trained my replacement and still send some of them work.
I'm in high end resi - in both high end resi and in some of the institutional work I've done there was very few contract positions. Mostly do to the fact that there needed to be a longer term institutional knowledge of projects (I'm still on-call if needed with a couple of old jobs) and the need for clients to feel like confidentiality would be kept (and enforced).
I'll say there are advantages to being contract. Having done it, it lets you be more freelance while you feel out firms. And if you're good, you do get to pick and choose a spot when the going gets good.
zonker
Dec 21, 15 8:37 pm
I worked Temp from 2009 -2015 - 12 gigs - now at long last I am a direct - How long will this last?
Bhunivelze
Dec 21, 15 9:26 pm
This is a little unsettling for someone still in school. However, I have to admit the whole world is moving faster and there is less and less time for permanent things. Its almost as if the job market for architecture is following the the way buildings have changed over the centuries: From extravagant, long-winded permanent monoliths, to cheap, quick, framing structures.
DeTwan
Dec 21, 15 10:49 pm
It's called a turn and burn economy
Josh Mings
Dec 21, 15 11:08 pm
I must be missing something because I've never even had an offer for a temp position. They have all been for full time with benefits.
senjohnblutarsky
Dec 22, 15 8:02 am
I've yet to encounter anyone in a temp position.
mightyaa
Dec 22, 15 11:07 am
There are employer tricks you should be aware of, because they’ll do this to save money, and/or other reasons that benefit the firm.
Just know going into negotiations, that most full time employees are based on a 2080 hr year. Thing is, that accounts for 2w paid vacation and about 1.5 weeks of paid holidays. So a contract employee is really 1940 hours or so available to work. It’s the difference between a $30/hr position being equivalent to $58k annually and $62k. So already you are paid less than a normal employee unless they account for it. And that’s just the tip; benefits, overtime, perks, etc. all go. It also hurts if you want a loan; self-employment requires 2 years of history versus 6 months W2. Also know contracts; The employee contract they’ll hand you is extremely one sided. Know how to refine it to add in protections for yourself, particularly when it comes to indemnification and liability (so they’ll cover and protect you under the corporate umbrella).
On the plus side; You set your own time, you can invest those funds that would have come out of your paycheck and just pay the tax when it’s due. You can choose your own insurance policies. You can moonlight. You can write off a lot of expenses otherwise not available (like mileage, parking, and whatever else you have to do to perform your work). You can negotiate salaries higher than you’d get paid as a regular employee (still cheaper for them). So if you are good with money and negotiation, it’s not bad. You are considered self-employed.
Also, I’ve wondered about the ‘intellectual property’. You are contract, so I’d think you own whatever you produce unless the contract says otherwise. Sort of like the firm demanding they own a consultant’s work and drawings to do with whatever they want wouldn’t hold up.
mightyaa
Dec 22, 15 11:07 am
btw, I'm a senior position contract employee....
zonker
Dec 22, 15 11:51 am
In temp to hire - 18% of temp positions convert to direct - something to keep in mind
IOW if you want to convert to a direct position, you have to really impress the people you are assigned to
Everyday Intern
Dec 22, 15 11:55 am
There was there was a thread a couple of years ago, The Myth of the 'Contract Worker,' that outlined some IRS definitions and cautioned (those formerly known as) interns when taking a position as an independent contractor for a firm, that they may not be able to count IDP hours under that employment relationship. The major point being that IDP requires the intern to be under direct supervision, but being an independent contractor precludes that as a possibility ... otherwise you should not be classified as an independent contractor, but rather as an employee.
I've never had to deal with being an independent contractor (except for some years when I was a kid as a paper boy), so I've never had to deal with trying to count those hours toward IDP.
NCARB doesn't have anything definitive the the IDP Guidelines except for the requirement for direct supervision at a firm engaged in the lawful practice of architecture. One could probably argue either side of this and it would be up to NCARB to determine if the hours are eligible. My assumption is that plenty of interns are counting these hours and getting them approved and NCARB it simply not addressing it ... if they see it as an issue at all.
Does anyone know; has there been any definitive stance from NCARB on eligibility for earning IDP hours while employed as an independent contractor -- either to the issue of direct supervision, or to the issue of lawful practice if you are truly being misclassified as an independent contractor when you should be an employee?
,,,,
Dec 22, 15 2:32 pm
Internal Revenue Service 20 point Checklist for Independent Contractor
Mistakenly classifying an employee as an independent contractor can result in significant fines and penalties. There are 20 factors used by the IRS to determine whether you have enough control over a worker to be an employer. Though these rules are intended only as a guide-the IRS says the importance of each factor depends on the individual circumstances-they should be helpful in determining whether you wield enough control to show an employer-employee relationship. If you answer "Yes" to all of the first four questions, you’re probably dealing with an independent contractor; "Yes" to any of questions 5 through 20 means your worker is probably an employee.
1. Profit or loss. Can the worker make a profit or suffer a loss as a result of the work, aside from the money earned from the project? (This should involve real economic risk-not just the risk of not getting paid.)
2. Investment. Does the worker have an investment in the equipment and facilities used to do the work? (The greater the investment, the more likely independent contractor status.)
3. Works for more than one firm. Does the person work for more than one company at a time? (This tends to indicate independent contractor status, but isn’t conclusive since employees can also work for more than one employer.)
4. Services offered to the general public. Does the worker offer services to the general public?
5. Instructions. Do you have the right to give the worker instructions about when, where, and how to work? (This shows control over the worker.)
6. Training. Do you train the worker to do the job in a particular way? (Independent contractors are already trained.)
7. Integration. Are the worker’s services so important to your business that they have become a necessary part of the business? (This may show that the worker is subject to your control.)
8. Services rendered personally. Must the worker provide the services personally, as opposed to delegating tasks to someone else? (This indicates that you are interested in the methods employed, and not just the results.)
9. Hiring assistants. Do you hire, supervise, and pay the worker’s assistants? (Independent contractors hire and pay their own staff.)
10. Continuing relationship. Is there an ongoing relationship between the worker and yourself? (A relationship can be considered ongoing if services are performed frequently, but irregularly.)
11. Work hours. Do you set the worker’s hours? (Independent contractors are masters of their own time.)
12. Full-time work. Must the worker spend all of his or her time on your job? (Independent contractors choose when and where they will work.)
13. Work done on premises. Must the individual work on your premises, or do you control the route or location where the work must be performed? (Answering no doesn’t by itself mean independent contractor status.)
14. Sequence. Do you have the right to determine the order in which services are performed? (This shows control over the worker)
15. Reports. Must the worker give you reports accounting for his or her actions? (This may show lack of independence)
16. Pay Schedules. Do you pay the worker by hour, week, or month? (Independent contractors are generally paid by the job or commission, although by industry practice, some are paid by the hour.)
17. Expenses. Do you pay the worker’s business or travel costs? (This tends to show control.)
18. Tools and materials. Do you provide the worker with equipment, tools, or materials? (Independent contractors generally supply the materials for the job and use their own tools and equipment.)
19. Right to fire. Can you fire the worker? (An independent contractor can’t be fired without subjecting you to the risk of breach of contract lawsuit.)
20. Worker’s right to quit. Can the worker quit at any time, without incurring liability? (An independent contractor has a legal obligation to complete the contract.)
zonker
Dec 22, 15 5:57 pm
I was a 1099 at one office for 3 years and was treated as an employee
,,,,
Dec 22, 15 6:10 pm
^ Sounds like you were an employee who was treated like a 1099. 30% taxes, no health insurance, no overtime, no sick days, no paid holidays and no unemployment insurance.
Just because you fill out a 1099 does not make it so.
This is the new business model and not just in architecture.
archanonymous
Dec 22, 15 6:16 pm
I was 1099 once when I was clearly a full employee.
Reported that fucker to the department of labor and filled out my taxes as if I was a normal employee. He's out of business now - I think he was audited by the IRS and the DOL.
zonker
Dec 22, 15 6:20 pm
I am going to ask them to sign my back IDP hours - if they say no - I will snitch them to the IRS
Dangermouse
Dec 22, 15 9:31 pm
All of my full time jobs have been at-will employment, which is functionally identical to temporary work. I can be fired at any time for any reason. I'm currently looking for work and I'd like to start asking for a contract, but that isn't the standard practice and I don't want to seem high maintenance. Why would someone hire me with a contract when they can get a functional equivalent without the hassle?
shellarchitect
Dec 22, 15 11:21 pm
because contract workers are usually way cheaper - people often just see the higher hourly rate and don't realize that regular employees get a ton of benefits that don't show up on their paycheck. Contract workers should make twice regular employees but rarely do
awaiting_deletion
Dec 23, 15 7:20 am
i keep thinking this is about Pavillions.
senjohnblutarsky
Dec 23, 15 8:12 am
Upon reading the title, I did think, "Someone should ask Alexandre Gustave Eiffel how he feels." Then I opened the thread and was met with an entirely different subject.
Wilma Buttfit
Dec 23, 15 8:23 am
My first job was temporary and I didn't even know it, I was there for 3.5 years and got a letter one day that said my temporary employment had come to an end (laid off) and was like, what? I was a temp? Oh. I had full benefits and earned IDP points, got unemployment. All jobs are temporary, this isn't your father's era where you could expect to hold a job for 40 years.
Maybe the freelance lifestyle can work for you. I work as a freelancer now across 2 careers (I was an intern architect, left during the recession and apprenticed and worked as a special ed teacher-therapist, now back in architecture as a self-employed freelancer while still in education part time doing instructional design, business development and bookkeeping for my partner. It took a awhile to get used to the ups and downs and managing my own time and expenses but once you get good at it it is an enviable lifestyle. I can turn down work. I can work from home. I can work part time. I can take frequent breaks which in turn increases my productivity. In design we need time to visualize and integrate, you can do this while doing other things like driving, hiking. I get to have my kid with me. I get paid several times a month by several different sources. I don't commute and I don't have to sit in a noisy office with phones ringing and chairs scraping the floors!
As said above, if firms are treating employees like contractors they are doing something illegal. Those rats need to stop taking advantage of people. If you have a contract job, treat it as such... set your own fee and your own hours, don't spend all your time in their office, after all you have to go out and secure more work, you are self-employed! Then the key is to turn that extra time into leisure time when your clients make so many referrals to you that you don't have to look for work anymore.
The dad on the Jetsons worked 2 one-hour days a week.
3tk
Dec 23, 15 8:32 am
Dangermouse: you want to be at-will. contracts always favor the employer unless you know your contract law or hire a lawyer to review the contract - for longer term contract you might be able to get severances, etc written in, but the non-compete makes life after difficult.
StarchitectAlpha
Dec 23, 15 12:12 pm
The professional contractors on here are making contract work sound wayyyyy better than being an employee. What are the barriers to entry, is it really that easy? Also people's main argument against it seems to be its cyclical and in bad times you are out of work. Working in an office is the same way but you are 100% out of work unexpectedly on a Friday afternoon. So that argument cancels out I think. Plus this career is perfectly set up to work remotely since everything is essentially graphic, maybe well contracted contract work is the answer to over worked employees?
shellarchitect
Dec 23, 15 1:39 pm
i suppose it can be way better, but you have to be the person with skills or abilities that are not easily available. That way you can get the high pay and find consistent work.
In my experience most contract positions are at firms that are just getting by and are looking for a way to get an employee without taking on salary and benefits. These bottom of the barrel places aren't something to aspire to.
zonker
Dec 23, 15 1:41 pm
Revit is this double edged sword that has created a whole sub class of BIM workers who are plug and play and totally interchangeable - if one don't work out, just change - just like replacing a burned out light bulb - One firm in particular brings in people as temps and after two weeks if they perceive you don't have it - then they bring in someone else and another until they find the one that does.
Peter Normand
Dec 23, 15 6:05 pm
In my experience I have encountered a lot more temps working for staffing agencies, we have hourly rates, get overtime and some benefits from the staffing agency who assigns us to clients (architecture and Engineering firms) as on site contractors working under the supervision and control of the firm we are assigned to. We still interview and are competing for a temp job with other agencies and coworkers within the agency. The problems come when your assignments are short and you are not assigned something to fill a gap.
I don't fully understand all of the economical advantages for firms to do this but they probably keep their unemployment insurance cost low by not repeatedly staffing up and laying off folks as projects start and stall throughout a year. Anyone from the management side know more about this?
I have worked with a few 1099 independent contractors they were mostly doing office work station layouts which requires detailed knowledge of the workstation typologies and cost and constraints, this person knew exactly what the system creep was for each kind of panel upgrade from memory.
As for the uncertain nature of the economy and careers within a single organization I think most professional places of employment not represented by a union are at-will employment, some states may have a requirement for advanced notice of a layoff of 60 or more but I think that rarely occurs except when things are going bad for a firm.
Got to get back to ARE Study
Happy Holidays folks
Peter N
LeonardWester
Dec 31, 15 1:29 am
Is that so? If that, then there should be 40% pay. Does all this were mentioned in your convention collective which is the agreement. Or does it mentioned in the droit du travail which are the labour laws? If yes then there should be this 40% of the workforce.
I am wondering how widespread the use of contract or temporary employees in architectural firms is. What has been your experience.
In Chicago I have been temp or contract for 6 out of the last 7 gigs over 3 years some of the temp assignments lasting over a year others very short. The Latest assignment that ended as we reached a huge deadline was only 2 months.
I was told by someone who works full time at the last place and who is well connected knowledgeable of the industry, that he estimates that 40% of the workforce in architecture are temps. This is especially true for the production staff whom are often unlicensed but experienced in Revit and or CAD.
Share your thoughts and or experiences.
Over and OUT
Peter N
I don't have any personal experience, but what you ask doesn't surprise me. It is getting to be widespread all across the economy. Everything is throw-away including throw-away people. Yuck. Glad to be retired.
Just one more reason to avoid this dying profession.
I think the temp placement companies just capitalized on the influx of outta work architecture related employees after the collapse of 2008. They collected the resumes of thousands and thousands of ppl outta work in the architecture industry and looking for anything. Once construction started to boom in late 2012 again, a lot of business owners were hesitant to hire full time in fear of having to lay off employees again in a shaky economy. No one likes to fire hard working employees. The architecture industry is so bloated with entry to mid range individuals willing to do anything to say they 'design buildings', it allows the employer to not feel guilty when the work runs dry and the 'contract' ends, and allows for the temp companies to skim off the top.... that's why
If I am not mistaken, wasn't there suppose to be a shortage of architects in 2014? Whatever that means???
Good question, I had a couple contact jobs in the depths of the recession, but haven't heard of many recently. Curious to hear how common it is
If a company hires you as an independent contractor with promise of putting you on payroll they are cheap and if possible avoided.
Ha! Really thought this thread was about something else... of course.. everything is temporary.
Ecclesiastes 2:11, “Yet when I surveyed all that my hands had done and what I had toiled to achieve, everything was meaningless, a chasing after the wind; nothing was gained under the sun.”
"What is born will die,
What has been gathered will be dispersed,
What has been accumulated will be exhausted,
What has been built up will collapse,
And what has been high will be brought low." - Buddha
If you're being hired as a temp for any less than 150/hour by another firm and you're licensed, you're being tricked.
Whenever I do consulting for other architects, I add a premium for "my name not being put on the drawings" (marketing fee); which I do pretty often.
The largest and most profitable studio within one of Cincinnati's largest firms has about half their staff classified as "contract" workers with no benefits, no overtime, and no job security -- even though they're technically on the payroll as full-time employees with W2 forms, withholding, etc. The possibility of being made "permanent" someday is dangled in front of them like a carrot, even though the firm is notorious for high turnover and a hire-and-fire mentality. Their contract staff only recently became eligible for health coverage thanks to the Affordable Care Act.
This is where I ended up when I came back from NYC this past spring, despite no mention of being a contract worker occurring during the entire interview process. I took the offer because I needed the job and my other lead hadn't panned out (another fun story), but I moved on to another employer as soon as I could. Ironic part is how the first firm acted as if I somehow owed them my undying loyalty just for being given the opportunity to be a temp CAD monkey there. The entire experience left an incredibly bitter taste in my mouth, and destroyed whatever goodwill I used to have toward this particular firm.
My current gig is also more-or-less temporary because I had pretty much already made the decision to move to Seattle by the time I was interviewing with them, and I was upfront about my plans during the interview process. But they were swamped with work and willing to offer me full-time benefits during my time there, so it's a mutually-beneficial arrangement.
My biggest motivation for getting my license is finally having the option to work for myself. Of course that has its own host of issues, but at least I'll no longer be limited to always being somebody else's employee.
peter i realized early on this is a very job based profession and willingly switched to consulting (contracting) and have made a real living since. for the most part architecture can't be stable.
@David Cole, the acting as though you owed them something part really stood out. I've experienced it and coworkers have talked about it, employers seem to sometimes honestly believe being given the opputunity to work in the field is part of the compensation package and act as though you are a scumball when you eventually tell them you are leaving for a place that pays twice as much and gives benefits.
wurdan freo i qoute The Prodigy for Star http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi_KrCO4qQ8
StarchitectAlpha: Agree 100%. Funny thing is, it's always the absolute worst employers who have this mentality. I've worked for some real dickbags, and the one thing they all have in common is their complete inability to deal with it like a professional when an employee hands in their resignation notice. One particularly terrible former employer even removed me from the payroll system and rejected all my IDP hours the minute I handed in my notice, even though he had nothing but praise for my work beforehand.
But I've also been fortunate to have worked for some truly good firms who do great design and still manage to treat their employees with respect. No employer will ever be perfect, but even if I'm no longer employed by them, I'll always go out of my way to give those firms a shout-out on social media -- like sharing a recent project they've had published or an AIA ward they received -- or recommend them to talented people in the job market who are looking for a place to work. Loyalty is earned, not an entitlement.
Exactly, and you work harder for the good ones as well.
^+1 last few that were good to me, I gave them 8 weeks notice, recruited and trained my replacement and still send some of them work.
I'm in high end resi - in both high end resi and in some of the institutional work I've done there was very few contract positions. Mostly do to the fact that there needed to be a longer term institutional knowledge of projects (I'm still on-call if needed with a couple of old jobs) and the need for clients to feel like confidentiality would be kept (and enforced).
I'll say there are advantages to being contract. Having done it, it lets you be more freelance while you feel out firms. And if you're good, you do get to pick and choose a spot when the going gets good.
I worked Temp from 2009 -2015 - 12 gigs - now at long last I am a direct - How long will this last?
This is a little unsettling for someone still in school. However, I have to admit the whole world is moving faster and there is less and less time for permanent things. Its almost as if the job market for architecture is following the the way buildings have changed over the centuries: From extravagant, long-winded permanent monoliths, to cheap, quick, framing structures.
It's called a turn and burn economy
I must be missing something because I've never even had an offer for a temp position. They have all been for full time with benefits.
I've yet to encounter anyone in a temp position.
There are employer tricks you should be aware of, because they’ll do this to save money, and/or other reasons that benefit the firm.
Just know going into negotiations, that most full time employees are based on a 2080 hr year. Thing is, that accounts for 2w paid vacation and about 1.5 weeks of paid holidays. So a contract employee is really 1940 hours or so available to work. It’s the difference between a $30/hr position being equivalent to $58k annually and $62k. So already you are paid less than a normal employee unless they account for it. And that’s just the tip; benefits, overtime, perks, etc. all go. It also hurts if you want a loan; self-employment requires 2 years of history versus 6 months W2. Also know contracts; The employee contract they’ll hand you is extremely one sided. Know how to refine it to add in protections for yourself, particularly when it comes to indemnification and liability (so they’ll cover and protect you under the corporate umbrella).
On the plus side; You set your own time, you can invest those funds that would have come out of your paycheck and just pay the tax when it’s due. You can choose your own insurance policies. You can moonlight. You can write off a lot of expenses otherwise not available (like mileage, parking, and whatever else you have to do to perform your work). You can negotiate salaries higher than you’d get paid as a regular employee (still cheaper for them). So if you are good with money and negotiation, it’s not bad. You are considered self-employed.
Also, I’ve wondered about the ‘intellectual property’. You are contract, so I’d think you own whatever you produce unless the contract says otherwise. Sort of like the firm demanding they own a consultant’s work and drawings to do with whatever they want wouldn’t hold up.
btw, I'm a senior position contract employee....
In temp to hire - 18% of temp positions convert to direct - something to keep in mind
IOW if you want to convert to a direct position, you have to really impress the people you are assigned to
There was there was a thread a couple of years ago, The Myth of the 'Contract Worker,' that outlined some IRS definitions and cautioned (those formerly known as) interns when taking a position as an independent contractor for a firm, that they may not be able to count IDP hours under that employment relationship. The major point being that IDP requires the intern to be under direct supervision, but being an independent contractor precludes that as a possibility ... otherwise you should not be classified as an independent contractor, but rather as an employee.
I've never had to deal with being an independent contractor (except for some years when I was a kid as a paper boy), so I've never had to deal with trying to count those hours toward IDP.
NCARB doesn't have anything definitive the the IDP Guidelines except for the requirement for direct supervision at a firm engaged in the lawful practice of architecture. One could probably argue either side of this and it would be up to NCARB to determine if the hours are eligible. My assumption is that plenty of interns are counting these hours and getting them approved and NCARB it simply not addressing it ... if they see it as an issue at all.
Does anyone know; has there been any definitive stance from NCARB on eligibility for earning IDP hours while employed as an independent contractor -- either to the issue of direct supervision, or to the issue of lawful practice if you are truly being misclassified as an independent contractor when you should be an employee?
Internal Revenue Service 20 point Checklist for Independent Contractor
Mistakenly classifying an employee as an independent contractor can result in significant fines and penalties. There are 20 factors used by the IRS to determine whether you have enough control over a worker to be an employer. Though these rules are intended only as a guide-the IRS says the importance of each factor depends on the individual circumstances-they should be helpful in determining whether you wield enough control to show an employer-employee relationship. If you answer "Yes" to all of the first four questions, you’re probably dealing with an independent contractor; "Yes" to any of questions 5 through 20 means your worker is probably an employee.
1. Profit or loss. Can the worker make a profit or suffer a loss as a result of the work, aside from the money earned from the project? (This should involve real economic risk-not just the risk of not getting paid.)
2. Investment. Does the worker have an investment in the equipment and facilities used to do the work? (The greater the investment, the more likely independent contractor status.)
3. Works for more than one firm. Does the person work for more than one company at a time? (This tends to indicate independent contractor status, but isn’t conclusive since employees can also work for more than one employer.)
4. Services offered to the general public. Does the worker offer services to the general public?
5. Instructions. Do you have the right to give the worker instructions about when, where, and how to work? (This shows control over the worker.)
6. Training. Do you train the worker to do the job in a particular way? (Independent contractors are already trained.)
7. Integration. Are the worker’s services so important to your business that they have become a necessary part of the business? (This may show that the worker is subject to your control.)
8. Services rendered personally. Must the worker provide the services personally, as opposed to delegating tasks to someone else? (This indicates that you are interested in the methods employed, and not just the results.)
9. Hiring assistants. Do you hire, supervise, and pay the worker’s assistants? (Independent contractors hire and pay their own staff.)
10. Continuing relationship. Is there an ongoing relationship between the worker and yourself? (A relationship can be considered ongoing if services are performed frequently, but irregularly.)
11. Work hours. Do you set the worker’s hours? (Independent contractors are masters of their own time.)
12. Full-time work. Must the worker spend all of his or her time on your job? (Independent contractors choose when and where they will work.)
13. Work done on premises. Must the individual work on your premises, or do you control the route or location where the work must be performed? (Answering no doesn’t by itself mean independent contractor status.)
14. Sequence. Do you have the right to determine the order in which services are performed? (This shows control over the worker)
15. Reports. Must the worker give you reports accounting for his or her actions? (This may show lack of independence)
16. Pay Schedules. Do you pay the worker by hour, week, or month? (Independent contractors are generally paid by the job or commission, although by industry practice, some are paid by the hour.)
17. Expenses. Do you pay the worker’s business or travel costs? (This tends to show control.)
18. Tools and materials. Do you provide the worker with equipment, tools, or materials? (Independent contractors generally supply the materials for the job and use their own tools and equipment.)
19. Right to fire. Can you fire the worker? (An independent contractor can’t be fired without subjecting you to the risk of breach of contract lawsuit.)
20. Worker’s right to quit. Can the worker quit at any time, without incurring liability? (An independent contractor has a legal obligation to complete the contract.)
I was a 1099 at one office for 3 years and was treated as an employee
^ Sounds like you were an employee who was treated like a 1099. 30% taxes, no health insurance, no overtime, no sick days, no paid holidays and no unemployment insurance.
Just because you fill out a 1099 does not make it so.
This is the new business model and not just in architecture.
I was 1099 once when I was clearly a full employee.
Reported that fucker to the department of labor and filled out my taxes as if I was a normal employee. He's out of business now - I think he was audited by the IRS and the DOL.
I am going to ask them to sign my back IDP hours - if they say no - I will snitch them to the IRS
All of my full time jobs have been at-will employment, which is functionally identical to temporary work. I can be fired at any time for any reason. I'm currently looking for work and I'd like to start asking for a contract, but that isn't the standard practice and I don't want to seem high maintenance. Why would someone hire me with a contract when they can get a functional equivalent without the hassle?
because contract workers are usually way cheaper - people often just see the higher hourly rate and don't realize that regular employees get a ton of benefits that don't show up on their paycheck. Contract workers should make twice regular employees but rarely do
i keep thinking this is about Pavillions.
Upon reading the title, I did think, "Someone should ask Alexandre Gustave Eiffel how he feels." Then I opened the thread and was met with an entirely different subject.
My first job was temporary and I didn't even know it, I was there for 3.5 years and got a letter one day that said my temporary employment had come to an end (laid off) and was like, what? I was a temp? Oh. I had full benefits and earned IDP points, got unemployment. All jobs are temporary, this isn't your father's era where you could expect to hold a job for 40 years.
Maybe the freelance lifestyle can work for you. I work as a freelancer now across 2 careers (I was an intern architect, left during the recession and apprenticed and worked as a special ed teacher-therapist, now back in architecture as a self-employed freelancer while still in education part time doing instructional design, business development and bookkeeping for my partner. It took a awhile to get used to the ups and downs and managing my own time and expenses but once you get good at it it is an enviable lifestyle. I can turn down work. I can work from home. I can work part time. I can take frequent breaks which in turn increases my productivity. In design we need time to visualize and integrate, you can do this while doing other things like driving, hiking. I get to have my kid with me. I get paid several times a month by several different sources. I don't commute and I don't have to sit in a noisy office with phones ringing and chairs scraping the floors!
As said above, if firms are treating employees like contractors they are doing something illegal. Those rats need to stop taking advantage of people. If you have a contract job, treat it as such... set your own fee and your own hours, don't spend all your time in their office, after all you have to go out and secure more work, you are self-employed! Then the key is to turn that extra time into leisure time when your clients make so many referrals to you that you don't have to look for work anymore.
The dad on the Jetsons worked 2 one-hour days a week.
Dangermouse: you want to be at-will. contracts always favor the employer unless you know your contract law or hire a lawyer to review the contract - for longer term contract you might be able to get severances, etc written in, but the non-compete makes life after difficult.
The professional contractors on here are making contract work sound wayyyyy better than being an employee. What are the barriers to entry, is it really that easy? Also people's main argument against it seems to be its cyclical and in bad times you are out of work. Working in an office is the same way but you are 100% out of work unexpectedly on a Friday afternoon. So that argument cancels out I think. Plus this career is perfectly set up to work remotely since everything is essentially graphic, maybe well contracted contract work is the answer to over worked employees?
i suppose it can be way better, but you have to be the person with skills or abilities that are not easily available. That way you can get the high pay and find consistent work.
In my experience most contract positions are at firms that are just getting by and are looking for a way to get an employee without taking on salary and benefits. These bottom of the barrel places aren't something to aspire to.
Revit is this double edged sword that has created a whole sub class of BIM workers who are plug and play and totally interchangeable - if one don't work out, just change - just like replacing a burned out light bulb - One firm in particular brings in people as temps and after two weeks if they perceive you don't have it - then they bring in someone else and another until they find the one that does.
In my experience I have encountered a lot more temps working for staffing agencies, we have hourly rates, get overtime and some benefits from the staffing agency who assigns us to clients (architecture and Engineering firms) as on site contractors working under the supervision and control of the firm we are assigned to. We still interview and are competing for a temp job with other agencies and coworkers within the agency. The problems come when your assignments are short and you are not assigned something to fill a gap.
I don't fully understand all of the economical advantages for firms to do this but they probably keep their unemployment insurance cost low by not repeatedly staffing up and laying off folks as projects start and stall throughout a year. Anyone from the management side know more about this?
I have worked with a few 1099 independent contractors they were mostly doing office work station layouts which requires detailed knowledge of the workstation typologies and cost and constraints, this person knew exactly what the system creep was for each kind of panel upgrade from memory.
As for the uncertain nature of the economy and careers within a single organization I think most professional places of employment not represented by a union are at-will employment, some states may have a requirement for advanced notice of a layoff of 60 or more but I think that rarely occurs except when things are going bad for a firm.
Got to get back to ARE Study
Happy Holidays folks
Peter N
Is that so? If that, then there should be 40% pay. Does all this were mentioned in your convention collective which is the agreement. Or does it mentioned in the droit du travail which are the labour laws? If yes then there should be this 40% of the workforce.