DEFINITION of 'Underwater Education' An education loan with a higher balance than the free-market value of the education.
awaiting_deletion
Oct 11, 15 12:17 pm
baited dollar bill social analysis should be obvious.
awaiting_deletion
Oct 11, 15 12:20 pm
"rebellion postponement: the tendency in one's youth to avoid traditionally youthful activities and artistic experiences in order to obtain serious career experience." - Douglas Copeland
davvid
Oct 11, 15 12:35 pm
I don't get it
JeromeS
Oct 11, 15 2:30 pm
Millenials I've met can't do much- at least that guy can swim
StarchitectAlpha
Oct 11, 15 4:26 pm
and here's the baby boomers summed up -
davvid
Oct 11, 15 4:49 pm
If the nirvana baby were a millennial architect in Europe or parts of Asia, he would probably have more responsibility, vacation time and would be able to design in a contemporary style. In America, he is derided and held down by his older peers and forced to design in a completely different way than what he was taught in school.
awaiting_deletion
Oct 11, 15 4:54 pm
davidd you do get it.....fuck the baby boomers, worst generation ever, the very problems in this country caused by them.....baby boomers had everything and they fucked it up....i am gen x. hence nirvana........the album cover says a lot. you millennials start underwater with little to no chance of surfacing. Nirvana. Nevermind. this isnt even possible.
Larchinect
Oct 11, 15 5:22 pm
Read' 'The Unwinding' by George Packer.
The millennials are not to blame for the ills of society today, but they (we) sure do need to start showing up to the table if we want real change. Change doesn't start and stop with passion.
awaiting_deletion
Oct 11, 15 5:33 pm
why show up when the passion can be deposited virtually on the internet?........i surveyed a kids apartment in Brooklyn once within the last 5 years, he had a few Anonymous masks, he was at Occupy Wall Street, was a woodworker/metalworker. as i do in many surveys i am in the background hearing the tenants and managements conversation. the conversation was SO pro American, working class, take care of your people, for a second I thought I was listening to an American Farmer....it blew my mind he had become the face of a threat. what threat? he gives a fuck about not only about his class but also his Generation? i feel like Gen Xers just kind of threw our hands up and said we're fucked, and the millenials assumed this fucked world is the world and opportunities appear virtually. good eye candy architecture renderings or bullshit theories are legit! while the capital keeps running shit.... Where is the cynicism? paranoia is not Pot induced, you may be right. .....BIG's 2 face 2 WTC, what can it mean? Hyudnai commercial - are we going to start ending games with huss instead of handshakes...no no no..being a champion should mean something, winning should mean something, we need to make the losers lose.
curtkram
Oct 11, 15 5:50 pm
we genXers are the latchkey kids. we were abandoned on day 1. no heli-parenting or coddling or anything like that. if millenial nirvana kid fell in the pool, a group of parents would be there to discuss whether they should pull him out or tell him to pull himself out by his bootstraps. if genX nirvana kid fell in the pool, nobody would notice.
no_form
Oct 11, 15 5:51 pm
Since most millennial architects are fortunate to get jobs and learn the business it's hard to expect much more than swimming naively towards the next dollar.
If people want to design buildings that aren't post modern pastiche of historical forms or big boxes they should move to cities that are not afraid to take risks.
awaiting_deletion
Oct 11, 15 6:12 pm
rob_c I like your summary. What are the cities? .........................The whole Millinial delusion that you are the next Steve Jobs is starting to annoy me, these are the worst clients. some cocky 20 something thinks they can do my job and pick every last ounce of my brain. you grew up watching HGTV? I grew up watching the A-Team, doesnt mean I am Hannibal,Face,BA Barrakus or Murdock...as much as I hate the baby boomer billionaires at least they cut a check and fuck off......just because you think well does not mean you can act well.....this is where the baby boomers are making bank on their venture capitilist endeavors with the millinials. they pick your brain, give you some money, and then steal the whole thing and continue to make billions! as we gen xers just accept this shit. like curtkram said,no one gave a fuck about us. the kid at quirky had no clue.
no_form
Oct 11, 15 6:25 pm
In the US, New York, Chicago, LA. That's still it. For all the rust belt boosterism over Detroit, and elsewhere, there just isn't the same opportunity as there is in the big 3. All the interesting boutique offices and major players are not in 2nd and 3rd tier cities. There isn't enough money or interest in capital A architecture or really anything boundary pushing at all that you can make a living off of.
Internationally, Japan's residential market has garnered a lot of attention. I'm not familiar with Europe so someone else can speak for that part of the world.
davvid
Oct 11, 15 6:30 pm
I don't see how the generation blaming is really going to help the situation, though. It seems way too imprecise. "if genX nirvana kid fell in the pool, nobody would notice." <--Like this probably isn't true at all, for example.
Precision is a theme that I think about a lot and I wonder if the internet and the availability of constantly updated dictionaries and crowd-sourced references is improving the precision of the higher achieving among younger generations. Obviously, there will always be some slacking going on. But i'm most optimistic about young adults when I see the extreme wonkiness, like the way some dive into coding or meticulously fact-check politicians, or analyzing a mix on soundcloud and are able to post a comment at a specific second in a audio file. On the subject of rendering, I think that highly detailed renderings (not overly atmospheric ones) are bringing architecture closer to industrial design in its ability to precisely express the form, the quality of finishes, the affects of shadows on a form and how it relates to its context. The ways that we obsess over the slight differences between one generation of iPhones and the next is a type of precise scrutiny that has not yet being applied to architecture. Architects are still allowed to get away with highly misleading renderings or sometimes elevation drawings that provide no information about materiality, reflectivity, color, shadows etc.
When I said "I don't get it" I was being sarcastic (how very 90s of me). I was trying to poke fun at how literal the album artwork is.
awaiting_deletion
Oct 11, 15 6:32 pm
is boutique another way of saying radical? its interesting you use that term, as many firms advertise themselves as such to distinguish themselves.
awaiting_deletion
Oct 11, 15 6:36 pm
you said 'like' davvid,thats so 90's....so you ar saying this new generation is partially autistic? millenials are rain men social media types?
davvid
Oct 11, 15 6:45 pm
I think that Europe is better at matching great architectural opportunities up with great talent. Most smaller US cities (and sometimes large ones) still dole that work out to local corporate firms. Its amazing how many major figures of post WW2 global architectural history are represented in Berlin, for example.
no_form
Oct 11, 15 6:48 pm
Your discussion of precision while interesting is flawed to an extent. Basic fact checking or passion for what you do is not exceptional or precise. It's just exemplary of having an education and love for ones work.
Regarding renderings. There are different approaches. One being to express an intent or affect. Another being to precisely depict a certain condition. But to say to someone what I'm showing you is what you will get doesn't compare in terms of the scale and complexity of a building vs an iPhone. Sure iPhones are complex but they get stamped out in factories. Buildings do not.
no_form
Oct 11, 15 6:51 pm
Boutique does imply radical. Small fabrication shops or offices that are given the opportunity to explore new forms and get them built is the reward of living in a major city. Sure there are one offs in smaller cities but that's not going to sustain an entire generation of architects.
awaiting_deletion
Oct 11, 15 6:56 pm
rob_c i don't think millenials understand that/\ not sure what you call my oldest daughter (b. 2008) but in a long conversation about ghosts and scary shit, I said ask the lady at the Catholic Church (not catholic but wife is south American Irish American...so kids Catholic) .....i say ask the lady at Church about ghosts,she says the lady at church only knows about God, WE SHOULD ASK Google?!?!?
no_form
Oct 11, 15 7:06 pm
Asking the lady at the church could lead to some interesting stories. Stories that make for good content to upload to the Internet. That one can then google. Content is what makes the Internet useful.
davvid
Oct 11, 15 7:09 pm
I agree. It is flawed to an extent. There are major differences between products and buildings. But I still think that project management is moving in this direction. The public is getting increasingly intolerant of major rendering-vs-reality discrepancies. Modeling technology is improving and inexpensive plugins are available for very intuitive modeling programs like sketchup.
I wasn't really talking about fact-checking our own work. I mean that we are all able to fact-check things that are unrelated to our profession. When my father was in the hospital, I was able to research what the doctor was telling us so that I could really absorb it and get additional background info to really understand what was wrong. This is an enormous change to how we go about our daily lives. We're able to continually tap and contribute to a collective knowledge. Maybe precision isn't the best word for it, but thats how I see it at the moment.
awaiting_deletion
Oct 11, 15 7:24 pm
its not precision per say,its statistical precision which is an important method for analysis in general, thanks to internet where wr are headed......content is interesting. for instance,I saw BIG models being used as door props in the former US space at Starret Lehigh. The word on the street was that is where OWS kids were held for intorragation. There is NO content ont he web sibstaniated it. Now did it happen? Does it bother anyone a Dane is doing the Smithsonian thingy (you ever do a Smothsonian job, you sign an agreement to never talk about it) Does it bother you a Dane was storing their drawings and models in a Federal government leased space? am i smoking pot if this content does not exist? i have CADS, i have photos, i have the architecture.
Larchinect
Oct 11, 15 8:00 pm
There will always be people who were born on third base and grew up thinking they hit a triple.
ha...I like per say more, it's got something to 'say' per se
I don't smoke pot. you kids do a lot, apparently...bottom right see M275...left OWS holdings....apparently I didn't takee photos, maybe some weird respect for Federal property...
the room now shown next to M275 USA, that door had a BIG model as a door prop.
its just information Millenials, right?
awaiting_deletion
Oct 11, 15 8:20 pm
thanks Living in Gin
"Generation X is a journeyman. It didn't invent hip hop, or punk rock, or even electronica (it's pretty sure those dudes in Kraftwerk are boomers) but it perfected all of them, and made them its own. It didn't invent the Web, but it largely built the damn thing. Generation X gave you Google and Twitter and blogging; Run DMC and Radiohead and Nirvana and Notorious B.I.G. Not that it gets any credit."
davvid
Oct 11, 15 9:10 pm
This is almost as embarrassing as when Kurt Loder called out Jewel for her use of the word "casualty".
album debuted in 1991
you'd be 24 now, a few years into the work force now.
If it doesn't happen on the internet, did it ever happen?
Architecture doesn't happen on the internet.
Was this cover photoshopped (phomontaged)?
nope..... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2042033/Baby-cover-Nirvanas-Nevermind-album-turns-20.html
DEFINITION of 'Underwater Education' An education loan with a higher balance than the free-market value of the education.
baited dollar bill social analysis should be obvious.
"rebellion postponement: the tendency in one's youth to avoid traditionally youthful activities and artistic experiences in order to obtain serious career experience." - Douglas Copeland
I don't get it
Millenials I've met can't do much- at least that guy can swim
and here's the baby boomers summed up -
If the nirvana baby were a millennial architect in Europe or parts of Asia, he would probably have more responsibility, vacation time and would be able to design in a contemporary style. In America, he is derided and held down by his older peers and forced to design in a completely different way than what he was taught in school.
davidd you do get it.....fuck the baby boomers, worst generation ever, the very problems in this country caused by them.....baby boomers had everything and they fucked it up....i am gen x. hence nirvana........the album cover says a lot. you millennials start underwater with little to no chance of surfacing. Nirvana. Nevermind. this isnt even possible.
Read' 'The Unwinding' by George Packer.
The millennials are not to blame for the ills of society today, but they (we) sure do need to start showing up to the table if we want real change. Change doesn't start and stop with passion.
why show up when the passion can be deposited virtually on the internet?........i surveyed a kids apartment in Brooklyn once within the last 5 years, he had a few Anonymous masks, he was at Occupy Wall Street, was a woodworker/metalworker. as i do in many surveys i am in the background hearing the tenants and managements conversation. the conversation was SO pro American, working class, take care of your people, for a second I thought I was listening to an American Farmer....it blew my mind he had become the face of a threat. what threat? he gives a fuck about not only about his class but also his Generation? i feel like Gen Xers just kind of threw our hands up and said we're fucked, and the millenials assumed this fucked world is the world and opportunities appear virtually. good eye candy architecture renderings or bullshit theories are legit! while the capital keeps running shit.... Where is the cynicism? paranoia is not Pot induced, you may be right. .....BIG's 2 face 2 WTC, what can it mean? Hyudnai commercial - are we going to start ending games with huss instead of handshakes...no no no..being a champion should mean something, winning should mean something, we need to make the losers lose.
we genXers are the latchkey kids. we were abandoned on day 1. no heli-parenting or coddling or anything like that. if millenial nirvana kid fell in the pool, a group of parents would be there to discuss whether they should pull him out or tell him to pull himself out by his bootstraps. if genX nirvana kid fell in the pool, nobody would notice.
Since most millennial architects are fortunate to get jobs and learn the business it's hard to expect much more than swimming naively towards the next dollar.
If people want to design buildings that aren't post modern pastiche of historical forms or big boxes they should move to cities that are not afraid to take risks.
rob_c I like your summary. What are the cities? .........................The whole Millinial delusion that you are the next Steve Jobs is starting to annoy me, these are the worst clients. some cocky 20 something thinks they can do my job and pick every last ounce of my brain. you grew up watching HGTV? I grew up watching the A-Team, doesnt mean I am Hannibal,Face,BA Barrakus or Murdock...as much as I hate the baby boomer billionaires at least they cut a check and fuck off......just because you think well does not mean you can act well.....this is where the baby boomers are making bank on their venture capitilist endeavors with the millinials. they pick your brain, give you some money, and then steal the whole thing and continue to make billions! as we gen xers just accept this shit. like curtkram said,no one gave a fuck about us. the kid at quirky had no clue.
In the US, New York, Chicago, LA. That's still it. For all the rust belt boosterism over Detroit, and elsewhere, there just isn't the same opportunity as there is in the big 3. All the interesting boutique offices and major players are not in 2nd and 3rd tier cities. There isn't enough money or interest in capital A architecture or really anything boundary pushing at all that you can make a living off of.
Internationally, Japan's residential market has garnered a lot of attention. I'm not familiar with Europe so someone else can speak for that part of the world.
I don't see how the generation blaming is really going to help the situation, though. It seems way too imprecise. "if genX nirvana kid fell in the pool, nobody would notice." <--Like this probably isn't true at all, for example.
Precision is a theme that I think about a lot and I wonder if the internet and the availability of constantly updated dictionaries and crowd-sourced references is improving the precision of the higher achieving among younger generations. Obviously, there will always be some slacking going on. But i'm most optimistic about young adults when I see the extreme wonkiness, like the way some dive into coding or meticulously fact-check politicians, or analyzing a mix on soundcloud and are able to post a comment at a specific second in a audio file. On the subject of rendering, I think that highly detailed renderings (not overly atmospheric ones) are bringing architecture closer to industrial design in its ability to precisely express the form, the quality of finishes, the affects of shadows on a form and how it relates to its context. The ways that we obsess over the slight differences between one generation of iPhones and the next is a type of precise scrutiny that has not yet being applied to architecture. Architects are still allowed to get away with highly misleading renderings or sometimes elevation drawings that provide no information about materiality, reflectivity, color, shadows etc.
When I said "I don't get it" I was being sarcastic (how very 90s of me). I was trying to poke fun at how literal the album artwork is.
is boutique another way of saying radical? its interesting you use that term, as many firms advertise themselves as such to distinguish themselves.
you said 'like' davvid,thats so 90's....so you ar saying this new generation is partially autistic? millenials are rain men social media types?
I think that Europe is better at matching great architectural opportunities up with great talent. Most smaller US cities (and sometimes large ones) still dole that work out to local corporate firms. Its amazing how many major figures of post WW2 global architectural history are represented in Berlin, for example.
Your discussion of precision while interesting is flawed to an extent. Basic fact checking or passion for what you do is not exceptional or precise. It's just exemplary of having an education and love for ones work.
Regarding renderings. There are different approaches. One being to express an intent or affect. Another being to precisely depict a certain condition. But to say to someone what I'm showing you is what you will get doesn't compare in terms of the scale and complexity of a building vs an iPhone. Sure iPhones are complex but they get stamped out in factories. Buildings do not.
Boutique does imply radical. Small fabrication shops or offices that are given the opportunity to explore new forms and get them built is the reward of living in a major city. Sure there are one offs in smaller cities but that's not going to sustain an entire generation of architects.
rob_c i don't think millenials understand that/\ not sure what you call my oldest daughter (b. 2008) but in a long conversation about ghosts and scary shit, I said ask the lady at the Catholic Church (not catholic but wife is south American Irish American...so kids Catholic) .....i say ask the lady at Church about ghosts,she says the lady at church only knows about God, WE SHOULD ASK Google?!?!?
Asking the lady at the church could lead to some interesting stories. Stories that make for good content to upload to the Internet. That one can then google. Content is what makes the Internet useful.
I agree. It is flawed to an extent. There are major differences between products and buildings. But I still think that project management is moving in this direction. The public is getting increasingly intolerant of major rendering-vs-reality discrepancies. Modeling technology is improving and inexpensive plugins are available for very intuitive modeling programs like sketchup.
I wasn't really talking about fact-checking our own work. I mean that we are all able to fact-check things that are unrelated to our profession. When my father was in the hospital, I was able to research what the doctor was telling us so that I could really absorb it and get additional background info to really understand what was wrong. This is an enormous change to how we go about our daily lives. We're able to continually tap and contribute to a collective knowledge. Maybe precision isn't the best word for it, but thats how I see it at the moment.
its not precision per say,its statistical precision which is an important method for analysis in general, thanks to internet where wr are headed......content is interesting. for instance,I saw BIG models being used as door props in the former US space at Starret Lehigh. The word on the street was that is where OWS kids were held for intorragation. There is NO content ont he web sibstaniated it. Now did it happen? Does it bother anyone a Dane is doing the Smithsonian thingy (you ever do a Smothsonian job, you sign an agreement to never talk about it) Does it bother you a Dane was storing their drawings and models in a Federal government leased space? am i smoking pot if this content does not exist? i have CADS, i have photos, i have the architecture.
There will always be people who were born on third base and grew up thinking they hit a triple.
Olaf, its 'per se.'
Generation X is Sick of Your Bullshit
ha...I like per say more, it's got something to 'say' per se
I don't smoke pot. you kids do a lot, apparently...bottom right see M275...left OWS holdings....apparently I didn't takee photos, maybe some weird respect for Federal property...
the room now shown next to M275 USA, that door had a BIG model as a door prop.
its just information Millenials, right?
thanks Living in Gin
"Generation X is a journeyman. It didn't invent hip hop, or punk rock, or even electronica (it's pretty sure those dudes in Kraftwerk are boomers) but it perfected all of them, and made them its own. It didn't invent the Web, but it largely built the damn thing. Generation X gave you Google and Twitter and blogging; Run DMC and Radiohead and Nirvana and Notorious B.I.G. Not that it gets any credit."
This is almost as embarrassing as when Kurt Loder called out Jewel for her use of the word "casualty".
wha?
google it y'all
no.