TD Ameritrade, mainly do highly speculative penny stocks, so good rates on trades like that. Recommend Peter Leeds as a basis for research though and stock list.
Volunteer
Aug 18, 15 8:35 am
Scott Trade. Keep to blue chip stocks that historically pay a dividend (General Electric, Exxon, Johnson and Johnson, Proctor and Gamble, ect) until you know what you are doing, especially in the current environment where the market is perceived to be overvalued.
curtkram
Aug 18, 15 9:13 am
talk to a financial adviser instead of someone on a forum who claims to be an architect.
and td ameritrade.
and buy google (now alphabet)
shellarchitect
Aug 18, 15 1:30 pm
if you only want stocks/mutual funds than online is alright.
A real financial advisor can give you access to the full range of financial products, not important when you're just playing around, but when you start to have real money and approaching retirement it's important.
Look for someone with CFP after their name.
TheLorax
Aug 18, 15 3:23 pm
If you just want to try and learn the ropes by trading on a really simple platform, look into Robinhood. It's app based (currently only on iOS, but android is coming soon), and there are no fees for each trade.
go do it
Aug 19, 15 9:07 pm
Thanks all,
We have a financial guy and he is pretty good. I just want to an account to see what happens I guess. I don't gamble when we go to Vegas so this will be my gambling.
In my fantasy portfolio my return is currently 17.83 %
StarchitectAlpha
Aug 20, 15 5:02 pm
"I don't gamble when I go to Vegas so this will be my gambling."
You're going to gamble your life savings?
awaiting_deletion
Aug 20, 15 6:38 pm
i play the lottery.
JeromeS
Aug 20, 15 7:32 pm
^^I don't always wear a seatbelt.
When it comes to finance, I suggest being debt free. Unless you can earn a higher rate of return than interest on debt plus inflation, you are making a foolish trade.
If you are returning 17.8%, you would never had needed to ask this question and fees would be of little consequence.
quizzical
Aug 20, 15 8:33 pm
"Investing" and "gambling" are two entirely different endeavors.
go do it
Aug 20, 15 10:31 pm
^ Yes I agree, kind of. I will have the same attitude as a smart gambler though. Just invest money that I am willing to lose and then hopefully invest the "house" money if I do ok.
The 17.8% is not real money just a fantasy portfolio I set up for my own giggles.
My fantasy Tesla went through the roof but the 3D Systems tanked. DDD was doing pretty good for a while and should have fantasy cashed it in.
If it was real money I would have cashed in before the slide.
But it is just fake money for now.
awaiting_deletion
Aug 20, 15 10:59 pm
Blackjack and poker are games of skill, just as much as stocks.
stone
Aug 20, 15 11:11 pm
If you're really interested in learning how to 'invest' I would recommend joining (or starting) an NAIC (National Association of Investors Corporation) - aka "Better Investing" - investment club in your local area. The ante to participate is quite small and the learning opportunities are immense. The aim of Better Investing is to help individual investors learn how to analyze companies and invest in growth stocks at the right price.
Participation is well worth the investment of time - and you'll make some useful friends.
I joined one of these clubs in my town about 17 years ago -- that experience has given me a solid background in investment methodology and helped me tremendously as I prepared for retirement. I'm now quite comfortable making my own investment decisions.
For example, as a result of my participation in this club, 16 years back I purchased $3,000 worth of Home Depot stock -- today those shares are worth more than $32,000 (that's 'real' money), a Compound Annual Growth Rate = 15.94%, not counting dividends received.
StarchitectAlpha
Aug 21, 15 2:22 pm
I might suggest adding some companies that actually have earnings and therefore a P/E ratio to at least start doing some basic analysis in the actual value of the company otherwise it's all voodoo graphs and market sentiment. You can definitely make a killing off of those but can you sleep at night? Not trying to be a hater just saying that would stress me the F out.
Volunteer
Aug 24, 15 9:29 am
So, how is that 17.8% return coming along?
curtkram
Aug 24, 15 9:42 am
if the goal is to buy low and sell high, this might be a pretty good time to buy.
JeromeS
Aug 24, 15 10:33 am
^^Volunteer- you beat me to it.
anonitect
Aug 24, 15 10:46 am
Still early in the day. The Dow bottomed out at 6443 in 2009. Have we really created additional value since then? (Not snark, a sincere question.)
gwharton
Aug 24, 15 11:21 am
Without the Fed pumping up the markets, the Dow probably has a more realistic valuation at around ~2000. So we'll see.
go do it
Aug 24, 15 11:26 am
Volunteer read my post that was just play money. And if you are in the market for the long run the dips are not to worrisome to you. Like Curtkram said this would be a buying opportunity.
I do work for a lady that lives off of the dividends of the stock that her mother bought, all blue chip, over the years. They were not rich people they owned a small neighborhood market / store. Her income from dividends is close to 200K
So theres that I guess.
StarchitectAlpha
Aug 24, 15 12:01 pm
Really? The Dow's valuation should be 2000? Global growth and value of companies has stalled since 1987?
JeromeS
Aug 24, 15 1:40 pm
I'm with Wharton. Maybe not 2k, but 4-6000 certainly.
gwharton
Aug 24, 15 1:47 pm
The US economy has stalled since the early 1970s.
gwharton
Aug 24, 15 2:17 pm
The news/China/whatever is not what you should be paying attention to as an investor. You should be paying attention to cash flows, balance sheets, and book value. Nothing else really matters.
It wasn't the news that caused the market to blip this morning.
The big problem for investors now is that the post-2008 changes in accounting rules have made it nearly impossible to find out what kind of financial condition a company is really in. Pretty much all financial statements are now garbage if not outright fraudulent. That should make you extremely wary, and necessitates using proxies for price discovery (such as debt ratios, dividend ratios, options, etc.)
comb
Aug 24, 15 2:42 pm
It's funny as hell when architects talk about the stock market.
gwharton
Aug 24, 15 2:51 pm
It's far too big of a subject for me to discuss in detail. However, there are a few things you should be aware of.
The biggest accounting rule change which occurred in the wake of the 2008 market drop was the removal of "mark to market" requirements for counting assets on the balance sheet. Previously, firms were required to list any owned assets or property on their balance sheets at current market value. Now they're not. Thus, many companies are carrying large numbers of value-less assets on their books at fictitious valuations. This is especially common in the FIRE sector.
The rules for accounting risk exposure also changed, generally in ways that allow companies to hide their true exposure. And companies are allowed to account for numerous executive compensation modes in ways that defraud shareholders and create an incentive for self-dealing behavior among executives.
More broadly, you need to decide if you are an investor or a speculator. Investors are interested in cash flows and periodic return on capital. Speculators are interested in market prices and capital appreciation. Most people who call themselves investors are actually speculating, which is a problem because they are evaluating their risks and priorities incorrectly. As a quick rule of thumb, if you are buying assets primarily to gain a profit from an asset price increase, you are a speculator and not an investor (regardless of what you think you are). If you are buying an asset to gain a reliable cash flow, then you are an investor, not a speculator.
Speculation is an inherently risky activity. So if you're doing it, you need to know how to quantify and hedge your risks in order to avoid taking losses. Understanding how to do that is far beyond the scope of what we can easily discuss here.
As for "news", the best way to make an investment decision is to read financial statements and SEC filings, understand a company and its business, and look at market performance metrics. You're not going to get any of that from any news outlet. And now that financial statements are no longer required to be truthful, you have to do a lot of digging on your own to discover the truth. It's a lot of work and there are no shortcuts.
gwharton
Aug 24, 15 2:53 pm
@comb
I'm an architect, but I also have experience running a multi-million dollar private equity fund as CEO for nearly a decade. Just FYI.
comb
Aug 24, 15 3:20 pm
^ case in point.
"Mark to market" (aka Fair Value Accounting) was not abandoned - it was refined. In April of 2009 the Financial Accounting Standards Board (FASB) voted on and approved new guidelines that would allow for valuations to be based on a price that would be received in an orderly market, rather than a forced liquidation, starting in the first quarter of 2009.
Financial statements still must be audited, CPAs still are required to exercise reasonable judgement and they still remain accountable for the 'reasonableness' of their audits. So, if you believe CPA's are 'cooking the books' across the board, then sure - avoid the financial markets altogether.
gwharton
Aug 24, 15 3:28 pm
LOL @ "refined"
I'm sure all the people Corzine defrauded take comfort from the fact that MF Global was regularly audited by "reasonable" accountants (PwC) under FASB rules. Sounds legit.
The fact is, our economy is awash in bad debts, toxic assets, and insolvent companies pretending to be viable operations, and FASB rules allow that fact to be hidden on balance sheets and buried under mountains of audit footnotes while Fed lending and ZIRP underwrites the whole sordid debacle.
If you want to be a real investor, do your own research. Duh.
awaiting_deletion
Aug 24, 15 8:52 pm
slot machines
shellarchitect
Aug 25, 15 12:07 pm
forgot all about mf global... a friend worked there and was not too happy to find the building suddenly locked up
gwharton
Aug 25, 15 6:03 pm
Slot machines are an excellent investment, if you own the machine rather than feed it.
Which one do we like?
TD Ameritrade, mainly do highly speculative penny stocks, so good rates on trades like that. Recommend Peter Leeds as a basis for research though and stock list.
Scott Trade. Keep to blue chip stocks that historically pay a dividend (General Electric, Exxon, Johnson and Johnson, Proctor and Gamble, ect) until you know what you are doing, especially in the current environment where the market is perceived to be overvalued.
talk to a financial adviser instead of someone on a forum who claims to be an architect.
and td ameritrade.
and buy google (now alphabet)
if you only want stocks/mutual funds than online is alright.
A real financial advisor can give you access to the full range of financial products, not important when you're just playing around, but when you start to have real money and approaching retirement it's important.
Look for someone with CFP after their name.
If you just want to try and learn the ropes by trading on a really simple platform, look into Robinhood. It's app based (currently only on iOS, but android is coming soon), and there are no fees for each trade.
Thanks all,
We have a financial guy and he is pretty good. I just want to an account to see what happens I guess. I don't gamble when we go to Vegas so this will be my gambling.
In my fantasy portfolio my return is currently 17.83 %
"I don't gamble when I go to Vegas so this will be my gambling."
You're going to gamble your life savings?
i play the lottery.
^^I don't always wear a seatbelt.
When it comes to finance, I suggest being debt free. Unless you can earn a higher rate of return than interest on debt plus inflation, you are making a foolish trade.
If you are returning 17.8%, you would never had needed to ask this question and fees would be of little consequence.
"Investing" and "gambling" are two entirely different endeavors.
^ Yes I agree, kind of. I will have the same attitude as a smart gambler though. Just invest money that I am willing to lose and then hopefully invest the "house" money if I do ok.
The 17.8% is not real money just a fantasy portfolio I set up for my own giggles.
My fantasy Tesla went through the roof but the 3D Systems tanked. DDD was doing pretty good for a while and should have fantasy cashed it in.
If it was real money I would have cashed in before the slide.
But it is just fake money for now.
Blackjack and poker are games of skill, just as much as stocks.
If you're really interested in learning how to 'invest' I would recommend joining (or starting) an NAIC (National Association of Investors Corporation) - aka "Better Investing" - investment club in your local area. The ante to participate is quite small and the learning opportunities are immense. The aim of Better Investing is to help individual investors learn how to analyze companies and invest in growth stocks at the right price.
Participation is well worth the investment of time - and you'll make some useful friends.
Here's the link: http://www.betterinvesting.org/Public/Clubs/default.htm
I joined one of these clubs in my town about 17 years ago -- that experience has given me a solid background in investment methodology and helped me tremendously as I prepared for retirement. I'm now quite comfortable making my own investment decisions.
For example, as a result of my participation in this club, 16 years back I purchased $3,000 worth of Home Depot stock -- today those shares are worth more than $32,000 (that's 'real' money), a Compound Annual Growth Rate = 15.94%, not counting dividends received.
I might suggest adding some companies that actually have earnings and therefore a P/E ratio to at least start doing some basic analysis in the actual value of the company otherwise it's all voodoo graphs and market sentiment. You can definitely make a killing off of those but can you sleep at night? Not trying to be a hater just saying that would stress me the F out.
So, how is that 17.8% return coming along?
if the goal is to buy low and sell high, this might be a pretty good time to buy.
^^Volunteer- you beat me to it.
Still early in the day. The Dow bottomed out at 6443 in 2009. Have we really created additional value since then? (Not snark, a sincere question.)
Without the Fed pumping up the markets, the Dow probably has a more realistic valuation at around ~2000. So we'll see.
Volunteer read my post that was just play money. And if you are in the market for the long run the dips are not to worrisome to you. Like Curtkram said this would be a buying opportunity.
I do work for a lady that lives off of the dividends of the stock that her mother bought, all blue chip, over the years. They were not rich people they owned a small neighborhood market / store. Her income from dividends is close to 200K
So theres that I guess.
Really? The Dow's valuation should be 2000? Global growth and value of companies has stalled since 1987?
I'm with Wharton. Maybe not 2k, but 4-6000 certainly.
The US economy has stalled since the early 1970s.
The news/China/whatever is not what you should be paying attention to as an investor. You should be paying attention to cash flows, balance sheets, and book value. Nothing else really matters.
It wasn't the news that caused the market to blip this morning.
The big problem for investors now is that the post-2008 changes in accounting rules have made it nearly impossible to find out what kind of financial condition a company is really in. Pretty much all financial statements are now garbage if not outright fraudulent. That should make you extremely wary, and necessitates using proxies for price discovery (such as debt ratios, dividend ratios, options, etc.)
It's funny as hell when architects talk about the stock market.
It's far too big of a subject for me to discuss in detail. However, there are a few things you should be aware of.
The biggest accounting rule change which occurred in the wake of the 2008 market drop was the removal of "mark to market" requirements for counting assets on the balance sheet. Previously, firms were required to list any owned assets or property on their balance sheets at current market value. Now they're not. Thus, many companies are carrying large numbers of value-less assets on their books at fictitious valuations. This is especially common in the FIRE sector.
The rules for accounting risk exposure also changed, generally in ways that allow companies to hide their true exposure. And companies are allowed to account for numerous executive compensation modes in ways that defraud shareholders and create an incentive for self-dealing behavior among executives.
More broadly, you need to decide if you are an investor or a speculator. Investors are interested in cash flows and periodic return on capital. Speculators are interested in market prices and capital appreciation. Most people who call themselves investors are actually speculating, which is a problem because they are evaluating their risks and priorities incorrectly. As a quick rule of thumb, if you are buying assets primarily to gain a profit from an asset price increase, you are a speculator and not an investor (regardless of what you think you are). If you are buying an asset to gain a reliable cash flow, then you are an investor, not a speculator.
Speculation is an inherently risky activity. So if you're doing it, you need to know how to quantify and hedge your risks in order to avoid taking losses. Understanding how to do that is far beyond the scope of what we can easily discuss here.
As for "news", the best way to make an investment decision is to read financial statements and SEC filings, understand a company and its business, and look at market performance metrics. You're not going to get any of that from any news outlet. And now that financial statements are no longer required to be truthful, you have to do a lot of digging on your own to discover the truth. It's a lot of work and there are no shortcuts.
@comb
I'm an architect, but I also have experience running a multi-million dollar private equity fund as CEO for nearly a decade. Just FYI.
^ case in point.
"Mark to market" (aka Fair Value Accounting) was not abandoned - it was refined. In April of 2009 the Financial Accounting Standards Board (FASB) voted on and approved new guidelines that would allow for valuations to be based on a price that would be received in an orderly market, rather than a forced liquidation, starting in the first quarter of 2009.
Financial statements still must be audited, CPAs still are required to exercise reasonable judgement and they still remain accountable for the 'reasonableness' of their audits. So, if you believe CPA's are 'cooking the books' across the board, then sure - avoid the financial markets altogether.
LOL @ "refined"
I'm sure all the people Corzine defrauded take comfort from the fact that MF Global was regularly audited by "reasonable" accountants (PwC) under FASB rules. Sounds legit.
The fact is, our economy is awash in bad debts, toxic assets, and insolvent companies pretending to be viable operations, and FASB rules allow that fact to be hidden on balance sheets and buried under mountains of audit footnotes while Fed lending and ZIRP underwrites the whole sordid debacle.
If you want to be a real investor, do your own research. Duh.
slot machines
forgot all about mf global... a friend worked there and was not too happy to find the building suddenly locked up
Slot machines are an excellent investment, if you own the machine rather than feed it.