Okay listen up Mr. 35-45 yr. old PM who hates on Revit daily. I used to buy into the argument that Revit probably ended up taking as much time as CAD because you ended up doing more with it but after working in Revit for a year and then going back to starting a CD packet with CAD because one of our PM's refuses to learn revit because he thinks it's a waste of time, I couldn't believe how incredibly useless and outdated this program is. I mean the obvious ones first of drawing a floor plan, elevations and sections separately but then getting design changes and spending time double checking these drawings are lined up. Then of course realizing that framing in the section wasn't actually lined up correctly due to human error. More time going back and making sure everything lines up. Then of course actual sheet set up consisting of creating a myriad of random files that link together and then of course the dreaded scale change of a viewport that's already been annotated. That alone wasted me two hours (changing a fully annotated shopping mall site plan to a different scale, would have taken 3 seconds in revit) and thank god we didn't have the extremely dreaded "can we flip the floor plan" add two days but in Revit, yup there's a button for that. Seriously this program is terrible!!! Not to mention you need to be a quasi computer programmer with knowledge of random command line texts to fix random bugs in this software that's been updated sporadically since windows 3.0. Stop being lazy and learn revit, it's better trust me.
zonker
Jan 20, 19 5:43 pm
been using Revit for 13 years now. I've introducing a new "addin" it's a 42" Mayline, Trace and pens
johntstrahsmeier
Mar 12, 19 2:20 pm
So far revit has been great for contractors and it makes us tons of money due to change orders since A&E firms hire revit only users who know very little about construction. Please keep using it and hiring those interns.
Non Sequitur
Mar 12, 19 2:24 pm
This is not a problem for us as I am proficient in both construction and revit use. Stick to cutting corners and providing sub-par products while throwing shade at the architect at every opportunity.
tduds
May 6, 19 4:33 pm
Sounds like that's a staffing problem, not a Revit problem.
johnstrahsmeier
Oct 22, 19 8:21 am
tduds: Agreed a staffing problem by hiring people with zero experience that are only great at using the software but have no practical experience. As far as the guy and his cutting corners, you have no business making that type of comment toward me and don't know the superior product we create. You can take your comment and shove it you pompous ass.
Non Sequitur
Oct 22, 19 8:37 am
My experience gives me plenty to rely on when making such comments. Thank you for noticing.
randomised
Mar 12, 19 3:21 pm
When the next crisis hits and software becomes too expensive, be sure that they'll dig up that old stand alone Acad copy from the attic and that drawing table from the basement. Never ever rely on just your stupid software "tools" but master what you actually do with those.
johnstrahsmeier
Oct 22, 19 7:16 am
As a construction person working on jobs that use revit is great.It provides us with an abundance of chances for expensive change orders all the time due to these kids (grunts) who think they are architects and engineers. They can turn a 750,000 dollar project into a 900,000 dollar job over night with all their mistakes. Keep hiring these great software people who don't know diddly about construction. Yer making us millions.
Non Sequitur
Oct 22, 19 7:35 am
Scummy constructor will do scummy things. You’ve clearly not worked with quality offices since this type of shit does not happen under my watch.
Donna Sink
Oct 22, 19 8:52 am
I don't understand why John came back 6 months later to make the exact same comment, but differently worded?
Non Sequitur
Oct 22, 19 9:16 am
I know... and then try to call me out on it. The dude is just a plumber turner BIM coordinator anyways, so meh, let him get salty.
OddArchitect
Oct 22, 19 9:32 am
Don't feed the troll.
Non Sequitur
Oct 22, 19 9:36 am
but...but... how else am I to distract myself from all these fire-protection specifications I need to complete?
OddArchitect
Oct 22, 19 9:52 am
Get a project architect to do that. Oh wait, that reminds me of something I need to do. On an unrelated note you think it's OK not to put sprinklers in an orphanage . . . friend wants to know.
Non Sequitur
Oct 22, 19 10:10 am
but I am the PA... and the PM, so do I then ask myself? What more do those orphans want now? air-conditioning too? man, they sure have it all now.
OddArchitect
Oct 22, 19 10:37 am
You could always tell yourself you're too busy and to find someone else to do the spec.
johnstrahsmeier
Feb 20, 21 9:26 am
We on the construction end of the building industry love revit since due to the users we end up with huge change orders. Keep using it! You guys and gals er making us tons of money! In the past ten years haven't seen decent job design using revit even once. It can't be the software and must be the ill equipped and poorly trained engineers and architects.
b3tadine[sutures]
Feb 20, 21 9:48 am
I've yet to work with a contractor that knew how to read drawings. Can't be the glasses, must be between the ears. Keep doing what you're doing, and I'll keep rejecting your CO, and issue CCDs.
Non Sequitur
Feb 20, 21 10:01 am
You again?
Jaetten
Feb 23, 21 5:33 am
Guessing they're hungry? I'll send a muffin over!
karenagen
Nov 29, 21 10:57 pm
I have no idea when this conversation started. But our drawing office has an issue of coordination within drawings, many revisions, and time management because of this. I am making a proposal to pilot a project first with Revit LT suite to see how well it goes with our drawing procedures.
No one knows how to use Revit. I have the fundamentals down. But the "non-users" want to fully implement Revit and get rid of CAD completely. I cannot see this as a viable option
Almosthip
Nov 30, 21 6:15 pm
rip the band aid off and dont look back
ivanmillya
Dec 2, 21 8:15 am
Being perfectly honest here, Revit LT isn't all that useful for drawing coordination or efficiency. We used it in our office until we realized that Revit LT doesn't allow view filters (critical to easily automating what information is shown, and how it's shown, in different views/sheets), and it doesn't allow add-ins, many of which are invaluable in getting Revit to work efficiently (one of my favorites allows me to filter my selections by just about any parameter, so I can select multiple objects that only contain "___" or whatever).
If you're planning to use Revit for time management, internal coordination, etc., skip Revit LT. It's not like AutoCAD LT where you can basically do everything you need, it's more like a trial version of Revit that you still pay for.
Bench
Dec 2, 21 8:25 am
No view filters for revit LT ?! Holy shit how is that even useful? You have to individually manage every single view manually?
ivanmillya
Dec 2, 21 8:35 am
Yeah. I've currently set up our lighting plans as detail components (because we don't need 3d lighting fixtures), and I use view filters to control the halftone of lighting/electric/mech. groups within the larger RCP template. But I was showing one of my coworkers how I do this stuff in Revit LT, realized there weren't view filters, and told him he had to manually group the lighting items together (so they're all easily selectable, since RLT doesn't have add-ins for selection filtering either), and override in view. It's such a chore.
alberto
Nov 30, 21 9:21 pm
I never learned Autocad and have been using Archicad for 20 years. Small (compared to Revit) models, easy changes to the CDs, work totally from a laptop. I like BIM.
proto
Dec 1, 21 10:48 am
As a lone individual, learning & switching to BIM (Archicad) after 30 yrs of acad drafting is a fucking bear.
1st project went out the door last month.
I lost a fuckton on it because of the hours wasted. I couldn’t legitimately even log hours against the project with much of the time.
I’m committed, but it’s still hard to justify at this stage of ignorance and low productivity. My partner has flatly stated she will not transition to it. I’m holding hope, but I have to be the expert first & offer better guidance than I’m getting. I have local colleagues who did the same & assure me it’s better by year 3 and worth it…that’s a long time to take a beating on projects for a tiny office, lol
The trad % breakdown of effort by phase is totally different.
In addition to learning the ins/outs of the tool, I have to figure out for myself how to use it at different stages of my design process.
proto
Dec 1, 21 10:58 am
For those sole proprietors out there, if an intern says they can learn it in a month, don’t believe them — it’s a long haul transition. Worth it, but it def isn’t a “I’ll load the preview copy & learn it at home” kind of thing…expect to provide structured training. /boomerrant #getoffmylawn
square.
Dec 1, 21 11:02 am
curious- what size projects are you working on? i have a lot of revit experience but it still doesn't seem worth to me for single family res or small commercial (our office still uses cad for these).
Non Sequitur
Dec 1, 21 11:05 am
Proto, I'm the bim wizard in our office and have been dabling in this space since 2006 and even I would rate myself a 6/10 skill-wise on my best of days. I'm also in charge of training our staff and presently using a multi-million custom 7k sq.ft house as our first full revit/full 3d detail project pilot (previous revit have all been commercial in scope) I'm also not supposed to be actually doing any of the drafting, so we'll see how that goes.
proto
Dec 1, 21 11:17 am
Residential is 95% of what we do. Two architects (& adding two [last summer's graduating] interns this coming year). Remodel & ground up. I will never use BIM for clash detection or coordinating with consultants tho we certainly need to share docs.
Square, that's exactly what we do, LOL. I've been frustrated by producing 40+ sheet sets with the constant upkeep of similar yet different drawings (think series of building & wall sections for instance). I figure the computer can help us with that.
square.
Dec 1, 21 11:28 am
interesting, yes i feel you there. i think it's a borderline decision at best- damned if you do, damned if you don't.
proto
Dec 1, 21 1:27 pm
@ NS, in some ways, residential as a first BIM project is almost too much. Commercial might have been easier in retrospect. So many particularities that we model for residential vs systems that are relatively uniform & consistent in commercial. I never realized how much we end up glossing over as unique instances until faced with normalizing them in unique objects & tool settings (walls, slabs, doors, etc).
@square, yeah, swapping model maintenance for repeated drafting maintenance
Chad Miller
Dec 1, 21 2:15 pm
I've done custom residential and commercial work in Revit. To me they are both the same in difficulty. Keep in mind that I've been working in Revit for over ten years. I'd rate my proficiency with the software as a 6/10.
proto
Dec 1, 21 4:37 pm
thanks, it is good to hear how others relate, for sure
ivanmillya
Dec 2, 21 8:23 am
I probably still am at a stage where I don't know what I don't know, but... when I transitioned to my current firm, the agreement was that I had to learn Revit before coming aboard (turns out I'm the only Revit user in the office). I spent about four months before I made my move learning at home with a personal Revit license, paid month to month, and have been now working full-time in Revit here for about seven months. All in, about a year.
At this point, I'm comfortable enough that I can produce permit sets for our SFR work by myself, coordinating with consultants who use mixed Revit/Cad. I'd say if you get a person who's eager and quick to learn, they can learn to be semi-proficient with the software in about a year. Granted, I knew how a set goes together long before I started with Revit, so that may play into it.
I still struggle with accurately modeling and documenting complex roof shapes, and I probably cheat them a lot more than I think I do, but a year's worth of full-time work in Revit seems like it was enough to get me able to keep my billable time afloat.
joseffischer
Dec 2, 21 1:49 pm
I lot of people a decade in calling out 6/10 skills... Where are the 10/10 experts? Is it like IT where employers want 5 yrs experience on a new software only 2 years old?
Non Sequitur
Dec 2, 21 2:11 pm
the 10/10 are all the fresh grads with shiny portfolio renderings and zero years of experience.
square.
Dec 2, 21 2:22 pm
a bit redundant to say that fresh grads have zero years of experience... and honestly many of the "fresh grads" i teach can kick most of the gen xers asses in revit when they graduate.
Chad Miller
Dec 2, 21 2:32 pm
10/10 skill in Revit is were you can make functional, parametric, analytical families . . .
tduds
Dec 2, 21 3:44 pm
There are no 10/10 Revit users. The best case is something like 9.5/10. Anyone who says they know everything about it
simply doesn't know enough to know what they don't know, and should not be trusted.
Non Sequitur
Dec 2, 21 4:17 pm
Gotta give a big haircut to anyone's revit experience if they've never gone to site or dealt with a project through CA.
Almosthip
Dec 3, 21 12:15 pm
I am a certified Autodesk Revit Professional (2015) and I am only a 6/10 Revit user
Chad Miller
Dec 3, 21 12:29 pm
tduds - I agree. I was being facetious with my family comment.
square.
Dec 3, 21 4:02 pm
true ns, guess im more reacting to your use of fresh grads as punching bags. a bit weird no?
like i said as an educator i'm impressed with the majority of them, and definitely feel for the fact that every year they are graduating into a more and more complex architectural landscape in terms of technology, both in production and buildings. if you've been around a while, you've been able to deal with these things in a bit more of a stride; graduating into a cad world is much more forgiving than a revit one.
Non Sequitur
Dec 3, 21 6:32 pm
^square, by fresh grads I meant all those “review my portfolio” one post ponies. All of them have 10/10 revit skills. They took all the points for themselves, none left for me to claim.
Anotheranonyarch
Jan 7, 22 7:39 am
If someone is fresh out of school and says they are an expert in Revit, let them help out on a project that's in the late CD stages or even CA stages and see how they start flapping like a fish out of water. Using a program in school, building fancy parametric families, gives younger people way too much confidence when entering the workforce.
archiwutm8
Dec 3, 21 4:07 am
It's the year 2100 and folks on archinect are still bitching about CAD Vs BIM. Use both in tandem is my answer.
Anotheranonyarch
Jan 7, 22 7:42 am
This literally sums it up. This thread should be closed now.
proto
Dec 3, 21 2:50 pm
Ques for BIM folks, esp if small office
1. It looks like SD isn't 15%-25% any more with the overhead of BIM. Have you changed your phase percentage assumptions for developing projects based on using BIM? Thus far, it looks to me like the spinup to getting projects into BIM is heavier than just a 2d drafted plan backgrounds? OR, are you just letting a project be loosely correct dimensionally until DD [ie not tying down say vertical accuracy until the project has it design legs/momentum to proceed beyond SD]? Are clients OK burning more fee earlier?
2. Or, have you bailed on using BIM from start to finish & kept the phase percentage traditional? ie, sketchup/rhino/2d (or even by hand) for SD & only engaging Revit/Archicad for DD on? At some point, that existing documentation needs to get up to speed.
ivanmillya
Dec 4, 21 12:59 am
The latter. We're a small firm that does primarily high-end SFR, and we use Sketchup from concept through schematic design, and begin producing a Revit model/drawings as the final meeting of SD, signaling our transition to DD and beyond.
midlander
Dec 4, 21 6:53 pm
even in the large firm commercial teams i've worked on we don't try to model fully in revit until DD. SD is often only using revit to set out typical floors and "draw" plans. The overall 3D model is studied and resolved in Rhino or sketchup until it's settled enough to model in revit, usually at DD.
proto
Dec 4, 21 9:38 pm
Thx midlander & Jovan Millet. That’s helpful!
jameswalker
Mar 18, 22 1:27 pm
When it comes to CAD vs BIM, It's just fairly obvious that BIM is the future and the way to go.
However, Revit is a sorry excuse for BIM software. Its 3D modelling tools are clunky and limited. Its parametric design tools are nightmarishly opaque and confusingly divorced from the actual processes involved in generating 3D forms. Don't even get me started on IFC support and interoperability. Revit is proprietary on a level which borders on malevolent.
Okay listen up Mr. 35-45 yr. old PM who hates on Revit daily. I used to buy into the argument that Revit probably ended up taking as much time as CAD because you ended up doing more with it but after working in Revit for a year and then going back to starting a CD packet with CAD because one of our PM's refuses to learn revit because he thinks it's a waste of time, I couldn't believe how incredibly useless and outdated this program is. I mean the obvious ones first of drawing a floor plan, elevations and sections separately but then getting design changes and spending time double checking these drawings are lined up. Then of course realizing that framing in the section wasn't actually lined up correctly due to human error. More time going back and making sure everything lines up. Then of course actual sheet set up consisting of creating a myriad of random files that link together and then of course the dreaded scale change of a viewport that's already been annotated. That alone wasted me two hours (changing a fully annotated shopping mall site plan to a different scale, would have taken 3 seconds in revit) and thank god we didn't have the extremely dreaded "can we flip the floor plan" add two days but in Revit, yup there's a button for that. Seriously this program is terrible!!! Not to mention you need to be a quasi computer programmer with knowledge of random command line texts to fix random bugs in this software that's been updated sporadically since windows 3.0. Stop being lazy and learn revit, it's better trust me.
been using Revit for 13 years now. I've introducing a new "addin" it's a 42" Mayline, Trace and pens
So far revit has been great for contractors and it makes us tons of money due to change orders since A&E firms hire revit only users who know very little about construction. Please keep using it and hiring those interns.
This is not a problem for us as I am proficient in both construction and revit use. Stick to cutting corners and providing sub-par products while throwing shade at the architect at every opportunity.
Sounds like that's a staffing problem, not a Revit problem.
tduds: Agreed a staffing problem by hiring people with zero experience that are only great at using the software but have no practical experience. As far as the guy and his cutting corners, you have no business making that type of comment toward me and don't know the superior product we create. You can take your comment and shove it you pompous ass.
My experience gives me plenty to rely on when making such comments. Thank you for noticing.
When the next crisis hits and software becomes too expensive, be sure that they'll dig up that old stand alone Acad copy from the attic and that drawing table from the basement. Never ever rely on just your stupid software "tools" but master what you actually do with those.
As a construction person working on jobs that use revit is great.It provides us with an abundance of chances for expensive change orders all the time due to these kids (grunts) who think they are architects and engineers. They can turn a 750,000 dollar project into a 900,000 dollar job over night with all their mistakes. Keep hiring these great software people who don't know diddly about construction. Yer making us millions.
Scummy constructor will do scummy things. You’ve clearly not worked with quality offices since this type of shit does not happen under my watch.
I don't understand why John came back 6 months later to make the exact same comment, but differently worded?
I know... and then try to call me out on it. The dude is just a plumber turner BIM coordinator anyways, so meh, let him get salty.
Don't feed the troll.
but...but... how else am I to distract myself from all these fire-protection specifications I need to complete?
Get a project architect to do that. Oh wait, that reminds me of something I need to do. On an unrelated note you think it's OK not to put sprinklers in an orphanage . . . friend wants to know.
but I am the PA... and the PM, so do I then ask myself? What more do those orphans want now? air-conditioning too? man, they sure have it all now.
You could always tell yourself you're too busy and to find someone else to do the spec.
We on the construction end of the building industry love revit since due to the users we end up with huge change orders. Keep using it! You guys and gals er making us tons of money! In the past ten years haven't seen decent job design using revit even once. It can't be the software and must be the ill equipped and poorly trained engineers and architects.
I've yet to work with a contractor that knew how to read drawings. Can't be the glasses, must be between the ears. Keep doing what you're doing, and I'll keep rejecting your CO, and issue CCDs.
You again?
Guessing they're hungry? I'll send a muffin over!
I have no idea when this conversation started. But our drawing office has an issue of coordination within drawings, many revisions, and time management because of this. I am making a proposal to pilot a project first with Revit LT suite to see how well it goes with our drawing procedures.
No one knows how to use Revit. I have the fundamentals down. But the "non-users" want to fully implement Revit and get rid of CAD completely. I cannot see this as a viable option
rip the band aid off and dont look back
Being perfectly honest here, Revit LT isn't all that useful for drawing coordination or efficiency. We used it in our office until we realized that Revit LT doesn't allow view filters (critical to easily automating what information is shown, and how it's shown, in different views/sheets), and it doesn't allow add-ins, many of which are invaluable in getting Revit to work efficiently (one of my favorites allows me to filter my selections by just about any parameter, so I can select multiple objects that only contain "___" or whatever).
If you're planning to use Revit for time management, internal coordination, etc., skip Revit LT. It's not like AutoCAD LT where you can basically do everything you need, it's more like a trial version of Revit that you still pay for.
No view filters for revit LT ?! Holy shit how is that even useful? You have to individually manage every single view manually?
Yeah. I've currently set up our lighting plans as detail components (because we don't need 3d lighting fixtures), and I use view filters to control the halftone of lighting/electric/mech. groups within the larger RCP template. But I was showing one of my coworkers how I do this stuff in Revit LT, realized there weren't view filters, and told him he had to manually group the lighting items together (so they're all easily selectable, since RLT doesn't have add-ins for selection filtering either), and override in view. It's such a chore.
I never learned Autocad and have been using Archicad for 20 years. Small (compared to Revit) models, easy changes to the CDs, work totally from a laptop. I like BIM.
As a lone individual, learning & switching to BIM (Archicad) after 30 yrs of acad drafting is a fucking bear.
1st project went out the door last month.
I lost a fuckton on it because of the hours wasted. I couldn’t legitimately even log hours against the project with much of the time.
I’m committed, but it’s still hard to justify at this stage of ignorance and low productivity. My partner has flatly stated she will not transition to it. I’m holding hope, but I have to be the expert first & offer better guidance than I’m getting. I have local colleagues who did the same & assure me it’s better by year 3 and worth it…that’s a long time to take a beating on projects for a tiny office, lol
The trad % breakdown of effort by phase is totally different.
In addition to learning the ins/outs of the tool, I have to figure out for myself how to use it at different stages of my design process.
For those sole proprietors out there, if an intern says they can learn it in a month, don’t believe them — it’s a long haul transition. Worth it, but it def isn’t a “I’ll load the preview copy & learn it at home” kind of thing…expect to provide structured training. /boomerrant #getoffmylawn
curious- what size projects are you working on? i have a lot of revit experience but it still doesn't seem worth to me for single family res or small commercial (our office still uses cad for these).
Proto, I'm the bim wizard in our office and have been dabling in this space since 2006 and even I would rate myself a 6/10 skill-wise on my best of days. I'm also in charge of training our staff and presently using a multi-million custom 7k sq.ft house as our first full revit/full 3d detail project pilot (previous revit have all been commercial in scope) I'm also not supposed to be actually doing any of the drafting, so we'll see how that goes.
Residential is 95% of what we do. Two architects (& adding two [last summer's graduating] interns this coming year). Remodel & ground up. I will never use BIM for clash detection or coordinating with consultants tho we certainly need to share docs.
Square, that's exactly what we do, LOL. I've been frustrated by producing 40+ sheet sets with the constant upkeep of similar yet different drawings (think series of building & wall sections for instance). I figure the computer can help us with that.
interesting, yes i feel you there. i think it's a borderline decision at best- damned if you do, damned if you don't.
@ NS, in some ways, residential as a first BIM project is almost too much. Commercial might have been easier in retrospect. So many particularities that we model for residential vs systems that are relatively uniform & consistent in commercial. I never realized how much we end up glossing over as unique instances until faced with normalizing them in unique objects & tool settings (walls, slabs, doors, etc).
@square, yeah, swapping model maintenance for repeated drafting maintenance
I've done custom residential and commercial work in Revit. To me they are both the same in difficulty. Keep in mind that I've been working in Revit for over ten years. I'd rate my proficiency with the software as a 6/10.
thanks, it is good to hear how others relate, for sure
I probably still am at a stage where I don't know what I don't know, but... when I transitioned to my current firm, the agreement was that I had to learn Revit before coming aboard (turns out I'm the only Revit user in the office). I spent about four months before I made my move learning at home with a personal Revit license, paid month to month, and have been now working full-time in Revit here for about seven months. All in, about a year.
At this point, I'm comfortable enough that I can produce permit sets for our SFR work by myself, coordinating with consultants who use mixed Revit/Cad. I'd say if you get a person who's eager and quick to learn, they can learn to be semi-proficient with the software in about a year. Granted, I knew how a set goes together long before I started with Revit, so that may play into it.
I still struggle with accurately modeling and documenting complex roof shapes, and I probably cheat them a lot more than I think I do, but a year's worth of full-time work in Revit seems like it was enough to get me able to keep my billable time afloat.
I lot of people a decade in calling out 6/10 skills... Where are the 10/10 experts? Is it like IT where employers want 5 yrs experience on a new software only 2 years old?
the 10/10 are all the fresh grads with shiny portfolio renderings and zero years of experience.
a bit redundant to say that fresh grads have zero years of experience... and honestly many of the "fresh grads" i teach can kick most of the gen xers asses in revit when they graduate.
10/10 skill in Revit is were you can make functional, parametric, analytical families . . .
There are no 10/10 Revit users. The best case is something like 9.5/10. Anyone who says they know everything about it simply doesn't know enough to know what they don't know, and should not be trusted.
Gotta give a big haircut to anyone's revit experience if they've never gone to site or dealt with a project through CA.
I am a certified Autodesk Revit Professional (2015) and I am only a 6/10 Revit user
tduds - I agree. I was being facetious with my family comment.
true ns, guess im more reacting to your use of fresh grads as punching bags. a bit weird no?
like i said as an educator i'm impressed with the majority of them, and definitely feel for the fact that every year they are graduating into a more and more complex architectural landscape in terms of technology, both in production and buildings. if you've been around a while, you've been able to deal with these things in a bit more of a stride; graduating into a cad world is much more forgiving than a revit one.
^square, by fresh grads I meant all those “review my portfolio” one post ponies. All of them have 10/10 revit skills. They took all the points for themselves, none left for me to claim.
If someone is fresh out of school and says they are an expert in Revit, let them help out on a project that's in the late CD stages or even CA stages and see how they start flapping like a fish out of water. Using a program in school, building fancy parametric families, gives younger people way too much confidence when entering the workforce.
It's the year 2100 and folks on archinect are still bitching about CAD Vs BIM. Use both in tandem is my answer.
This literally sums it up. This thread should be closed now.
Ques for BIM folks, esp if small office
1. It looks like SD isn't 15%-25% any more with the overhead of BIM. Have you changed your phase percentage assumptions for developing projects based on using BIM? Thus far, it looks to me like the spinup to getting projects into BIM is heavier than just a 2d drafted plan backgrounds? OR, are you just letting a project be loosely correct dimensionally until DD [ie not tying down say vertical accuracy until the project has it design legs/momentum to proceed beyond SD]? Are clients OK burning more fee earlier?
2. Or, have you bailed on using BIM from start to finish & kept the phase percentage traditional? ie, sketchup/rhino/2d (or even by hand) for SD & only engaging Revit/Archicad for DD on? At some point, that existing documentation needs to get up to speed.
The latter. We're a small firm that does primarily high-end SFR, and we use Sketchup from concept through schematic design, and begin producing a Revit model/drawings as the final meeting of SD, signaling our transition to DD and beyond.
even in the large firm commercial teams i've worked on we don't try to model fully in revit until DD. SD is often only using revit to set out typical floors and "draw" plans. The overall 3D model is studied and resolved in Rhino or sketchup until it's settled enough to model in revit, usually at DD.
Thx midlander & Jovan Millet. That’s helpful!
When it comes to CAD vs BIM, It's just fairly obvious that BIM is the future and the way to go.
However, Revit is a sorry excuse for BIM software. Its 3D modelling tools are clunky and limited. Its parametric design tools are nightmarishly opaque and confusingly divorced from the actual processes involved in generating 3D forms. Don't even get me started on IFC support and interoperability. Revit is proprietary on a level which borders on malevolent.