I am currently in my third year of business school and after some soul searching, I realized that I regret the fact that I chose business school over architecture when I had the chance (got accepted by both programs). I chose business school because I thought I would major in Accounting, however, few semesters down the line, I realized that I would be dong a general business degree, with different minors in Finance, HR, Strategy. Basically, my degree will be vague and nothing as specialized and stable as Accounting, which is the reason why originally I chose b-school over architecture, Now, is there a way that I could do a master or certificate in Architecture after graduating from B-School? I know that a combination of business and Architecture is great, though the more classic way is Architecture undergrad then MBA. Thank you guys in advance for your feedback! It would be so much appreciated.
Dec 29, 14 1:57 pm
Architecture? Why? Architects don't make any money? There isn't any real business.
To answer your question, you would have to take a 3 year (roughly) Masters in architecture. The question I have with you is, why in the world are you considering architecture? It is a total waste of time. People never pay you what you want. They never pay you what you are worth. They never pay you period. You ask for more than $500 or $1000 to design and they won't even consider paying you. They think you are charging too much money. After all, they think, it's just a 2-3 hour sketch. Why should I pay you more than $500 for one day's 5-10 hours of work? They literally think you already have a catalog of buildings or homes. After all, home design for example is pre-designed.
the question then is with a totally broken business economy that has 100 times as many people offering architectural/building design or design/build services than there is projects.
Business school should have taught you about supply and demand. The demand isn't there. We built more houses and other buildings than there is a need for in the U.S. for at least 50 years. There is too many supplier of services to design buildings. It's a dead end industry. Architecture field is a dead end business. At least in the U.S.
If you want to go into architecture, go to China or the Middle East and take architecture education there.
Otherwise, chose a career in a field that is growing. If I were you, stick with your business degree education because in the end, you'll get more money and a more successful career financially. You can actually afford a home. You can actually afford to have a custom home or such built in the long run. You'll make more money throughout your career than any of us because your business education is more valued. You would probably want to serve the software industry in business and accounting than architecture. There are many avenues so look to areas where it isn't too flooded but also where there is money. If you want to get into Architectural Engineering and Construction realm.... consider land development and running the financial end of things or things like that. FORGET being an "Architect". It isn't even worth it. You'll never make enough money to pay your student loans without defaulting at least one if not multiple times.
Out the door of college, you'll be more valued as an accountant, business administrator, etc. than as an architect. You would be in position to be an entrepreneurer. With finance behind you, you would be trusted more by investors and V.C. for capitalization than an architect which are seen as deadbeat artists just like other starving artists.
Bottom line: The reason the business of architecture is broken is because it is perceived as an art field and there is no viable business in art unless you are a gallery selling art because you don't have to produce the artwork. Art galleries are basically a glorified consignment shop.
You just don't make money in architecture because builders offering design-build services are subsidizing the cost of doing building design/architectural design services and therefore charge at rates that would be less than chinese minimum wage because it is subsidized.
Architects has to have a real occupation that pays the bills and earns the money and architecture is just a hobby in order to compete.
This bears the question why are we still having architectural licensure for what is essentially a hobby now. Not even a real occupation where you work full time as an architect?
Don't make the blunder of trying to be an architect. It isn't worth it at least in the U.S.
CrazyHouseCat
Dec 29, 14 4:56 pm
There’s reality behind what Richard is saying and many others on this forum will concur. But there’s always a flip side…
I did more or less what you are contemplating. I left my Business major 3 years into it and transferred into Architecture. I didn’t even finish my undergraduate Biz degree even though I was on track for accelerated MBA program. I paid my architecture dues with both undergraduate degree and an MARCH.
Why I did it? I was bored out of my mind with my business education. There’s nothing creative about it, there’s not even much that’s challenging about it. Plus the fact that I didn’t want a career where my success is determined by my butt-kissing and mingling skills. In comparison, architecture education required everything I’ve got and challenged every aspect of my mental and at times physical capabilities, which made for the most satisfying college experience.
Onto real world life after school (6.5 year now). Reality is VERY different from school. Yes, I spent a few months drawing toilet details (but now I’m a code expert in this regard). Yes, I spends lots of time researching boring water proofing and fire protection systems (but I’m now fairly confident that my design won’t leak or burn down if constructed properly). Do I get to design? Yes. So far, I've participated in design for a few very large towers, and many small to medium buildings and interiors. Not only did I participate in design, I also took several of them to completion. Caution: butt-kissing and mingling is still very much required. However, there’s a technical side to my value (the fact that I can design, detail, and get building approved by agency and constructed), that far outshines my unwillingness for butt-kissing.
I graduated straight into the recession. I’m fortunate to have weathered it fairly well (knock on wood). I know classmates from both business and architecture school who have suffered.
As of this writing, only a very small fraction of my architectural acquaintances are out of work. The rest are fully engaged, practicing real architecture and paying bills with it. I know I won’t get rich being an architect, but I’m making a solid living.
Bottom line: architecture is not easy, but it’s also not as bleak as this forum will have you believe. Cheers!
Dec 29, 14 6:31 pm
You also have to live where the projects are. There is a few spots in the U.S. Once you are outside that area... you can mostly kiss off architecture as a career that you can sustain on its own. It can't be a fulltime pursuit in those cases. Most have established themselves as offering other services besides architectural services in other fields often related to architecture in some way.
x-jla
Dec 29, 14 7:20 pm
if you are an employee minded person then stay far away from architecture. Its a shit career. If you are an entrepreneurial person then architecture is no different than anything else...you can make money selling hamburgers if you are a smart business person.
midlander
Dec 29, 14 9:33 pm
@OP, what you suggest is possible - look for programs marked as first professional architecture degree. Start planning now how you will put together a portfolio of creative works to apply. It doesn't need to be building designs, but general evidence that you are interested in spaces and think about buildings is important.
If you actually don't enjoy business or accounting (and don't have any work experience) then having that degree isn't going to give you any advantage compared to other entry-level architects, but that's fine. It might give you an awareness that other architects will lack.
Not sure where you are studying - but the key thing will be to make sure you don't go too far in debt getting an accredited architecture degree. Do some research on entry-level architect salaries in your area and make sure you will be comfortable with that amount of money and any student loan payments you'll need to make.
Architects can make a decent middle-class income, but it takes 5-8 years after graduation to get to that level - and some struggle to find that first job to get in. It won't be as stable as teaching or accounting, but if you're realistic in your expectations it can provide enough for a reasonable lifestyle. It's also lots of work - though most jobs are in different ways.
Also, strongly recommend you find some way to get work experience in an architect's office as soon as possible. Many prospective students have little sense of what the reality is. Like crazyhousecat says it is just as political and nepotistic as any business - and the day-to-day work may not often involve 'creative design.' Given your current degree maybe you could intern doing office-support work at a local firm to get a sense what the work environment is like.
Miles Jaffe
Dec 29, 14 11:16 pm
You'd be better off as a hair stylist. Lots of demand, good money, highly social. Everybody needs their hair cut. Well, almost everybody. Nobody needs an architect.
Susan.wg
Dec 30, 14 12:22 am
Hi all, thanks a lot for your comments! I have to admit that I was expecting serious warnings about the lack of demand in this field; I don't know if my situation is better, as I live in Canada, QC (cheap tuition), and speak Chinese (would consider working there).
@CrazyHouseCat: I totally understand what you are saying; in business school I don't feel actually learning something tangible/technical. Sure, accounting is a practical tool but it bores the hell out of me and I am not even good at it. Plus, I don't know if I really want to put in the efforts in becoming a master bullshitter as so many of the successful b-school people. Anyways, do you feel that a business degree still somehow helped you in the recession?
I am contemplating architecture as I believe it would be something I would actually be good at (unlike Accounting), since I've always had a way with drawing and visualizing things. Also, Architecture has just enough structure/commercialized to not be as 'care-free' as painting for example (again, considering the comments above, I might be wrong).
Also, I've been told, once, by an architect student, that the one key thing determining one's success as an architect is creativity. How true is that?
Thank you so much for your responses and for taking the time to read my post!!
midlander
Dec 30, 14 2:00 am
-Please excuse me as I derail the thread for a mild rant-
'creativity' is an overused word and has become somewhat meaningless in the context of discussing many design-focused careers. As a personal skill it's vaguely defined and impossible to measure. Pretty much anyone who goes into architecture has the creative instinct - some focus on developing that into a professional skill more than others.
I wouldn't say that the most prolific or respected architects are necessarily more creative than us no-names posting on archinect. The things that distinguish famously successful architects from the unaccomplished (or quietly successful!) are more likely business acumen, interpersonal skills, and inner drive.
Client hire architects for results more than potential, which takes more than creativity to achieve. Also, there are many ways to define success - whatever it is, there are many factors that go into it. Having unique and unexpected ideas about built space is only one niche within the larger world of architecture, and by itself not sufficient to succeed.
Anyway, having the creative instinct - the desire to invent and develop ideas into real things - is important. For some people it becomes the focus of their work. Just be aware that architectural design is a back-and-forth process which involves input from very many people. Creativity is only one of the many skills one needs to do well at it. And many successful architects are only mediocre designers.
-end of rant-
I was just talking to a Chinese friend who now lives in Quebec and works as a project manager in a local architect's office. She likes her job, but it doesn't sound like it pays so much. If you want to capitalize on your Chinese language skills you should consider looking for work in Toronto or Vancouver - much more work there on international projects. Entry level salaries in China are very low. If you study in Canada, you'll be much better off to get a few years experience there before moving to China.
Anyway, if you do consistent good work and keep involved in the world outside of school you can get a job and do just fine. Going to school without going into debt will be a big help as it gives you flexibility early in your career. Just make sure to do your research and be aware that you need to develop more than only design skills to make a good career out of this. Good luck!
bugsmetoo
Dec 30, 14 5:30 am
Creativity alone doesn't really mean much in any field. It goes with the myth of genius and the god's-gift-to-mankind ego but frankly, most people with the right upbringing can accomplish a decent amount of creative work if there weren't institutions that separated the "selected few" from many. How does one advance materials or develop new formulations in labs or business solutions? There isn't a textbook on how to invent the future materials or ideas. To progress forward anywhere requires the same kind of creativity but non-arts attempts are somehow treated as something inferior and scoffed at. Whatever.
Architecture is a large field and the world is quite different than before. This idea of being some master builder in control of everything and in demand is as dead as the glamorized idea of architects and architecture. To make a relevant point of reference, think of an arch firm as a business enterprise providing solutions. Like Goldman Sachs but instead of stocks and such that build monetary value, the service offered is design and the result a building. You need some brilliant people to scheme up things and be on the cutting edge but in most cases, most are working to responsibly (I know, the irony) handling other peoples' money and giving clients a solid return. Not all are famous but good work can be rewarding even if it doesn't grace the magazines or offer the most involved roles. Probably a broken example but not too far-fetched.
Finish one degree then think about the next step. Since architecture is tied into the economy, you can likely find a position that brings you closer to the desired field without any further education after graduation. A lot of people plan their degree roadmaps out early but then realize it's boring or not cut out for them regardless of pay. At least you have the chance to switch out or choose not to and still be fine with a generic widely applicable education. Some have put in decades for some pre-med path only to actually hate the profession and its changing future landscape. Limited options for them.
The thing to remember is that the Internet is often myopic in outlook and draws, hmm, the more vocal voices out of any group. There's plenty of people employed and not lingering online or making due in less than ideal but still fulfilling positions. Expect to possibly work for less than you might deserve and be entitled to. Expect good work out of yourself and it'll be fine. Same for anyone in any field in a market where there are far too many (over)qualified candidates and not enough positions.
zonker
Dec 30, 14 12:27 pm
Financial responsibility is very important and needs to be a priority - architecture is skating on thin ice as far as that's concerned unless you are in the top 10% - if you fall through the cracks, nobody will pull you out.
quizzical
Dec 30, 14 2:15 pm
elle.v: "I don't know if I really want to put in the efforts in becoming a master bullshitter as so many of the successful b-school people ..."
Well ... then you better not pursue architecture either ... "becoming a master bullshitter" absolutely is a requisite skill in this profession.
Actually, on a more serious note, combining an education in "business" and "architecture" can be quite powerful. While there's a lot of cynicism above, it's still possible to have a rewarding and satisfying career in this profession -- especially if you apply your business skills to your career. Few architects have a decent grasp on business and that makes their situation weak.
It's important to pursue your passion -- just don't ignore the weaknesses inherent in this profession. If you really want to be an architect -- and also are willing to apply what you've learned in B-school -- then there's every reason to think you can have a successful career. And, with the dual degree, you'll have more career flexibility than the typical architecture school graduate.
Good luck.
zonker
Dec 30, 14 2:48 pm
The thing I noticed is the people who are really successful maintain their vision/idealistic outlook. Most people in architecture react to the rigor/hardships by becoming cynical. I really takes a positive outlook "damn the torpedos" if you will and be headstrong in the face of the realities that cause most people to buckle analogous to becoming a navy SEAL.
Volunteer
Dec 30, 14 4:56 pm
It seems that if you combine business and architecture you might become a property developer. You could become a serial bankrupt like Donald Trump or a near-billionaire like Roger Staubach with a solid gold personal and professional reputation. Good luck.
My business education was tremendously helpful to my architecture career.
One important thing NOT taught in arch school is teamwork and leadership. Yet almost all real architecture and building projects require a large team composed of people with vastly different backgrounds, interest and agendas. Business school prepared me for that. The accounting and statistic classes weren't much help, but the simple awareness of the importance of working with PEOPLE gave me a good edge.
Business school also taught me to always look for more efficient ways of doing anything. Whereas architecture students tend to glorify suffering, often due to lack of efficiency in process. You’ll hear arch students “compare scars” like how many all-nighters they’d pulled. In comparison, I never enjoyed grinding through pain needlessly. I always examined and re-evaluated all my processes and quickly became a top producer at my firm, which helped me weather the recession when I first graduated (I was cheaper, eager to learn, fast and efficient).
Business school also “brainwashed” me to stick to and negotiate hard for my value. Some architects will say they do it because they love it. I do it to create value, for myself, for my firm, and for the community at large. By focusing on adding value, I invest in my continuing growth so that I’m still an asset to my firm even though I’m no longer cheap. And because I negotiated hard and successfully for my own pay, my principals are happy to let me negotiate contract and fees knowing I’ll watch out for the firm’s financial interest.
I’m sure there are other benefits of a business education, but these are some of the most important ones I’ve experienced.
Volunteer
Dec 30, 14 5:57 pm
I would be inclined to finish the accounting degree and then look at a Master's in Construction Management at someplace like Virginia Tech or the University of Florida. To a point you can also take courses in architecture, interior architecture, and landscape architecture to round out your education within the curriculum.
Donna Sink
Dec 31, 14 9:22 am
elle, bear in mind that many architects will tell you it's a terrible profession to be in. My personal belief is that practitioners in any field will tend to tell you the rough parts, because we want to be helpful and realistic. I still vividly remember, as a freshman in college, when I proudly told an architect I met at a wedding that I was in architecture school and his immediate response was harsh, even angry: "Why on earth would you want to do that?!" as he downed the last of his scotch. Despite hearing similar responses throughout my career, almost 30 years in I'm still happy I'm an architect.
Here is a good blog post from Bob Borson responding to the question Should I Be An Architect? He is a knowledgeable and generally optimistic practitioner.
Josh Mings
Dec 31, 14 9:44 am
I'm going to post a similarly optimistic post as Donna. I grew up in Columbus, IN and an architect is the only thing I've ever wanted to be. I don't regret it one bit and love where I'm at.
Sure, do door schedules and hardware submittals suck to review? Yes. Did I ever think I'd have an hour long conference call on a shower mixing valve? No. But, all of the day to day stuff is worth it when you see your project finished. I got a hell of a compliment from someone well known in the art world at a ribbon cutting last month that I'm still riding high from. It's those moments that make everything worth while.
Regarding pay - yes, it can be and is lower than you would think, but I'm living comfortably and with no monetary worries while living in a somewhat expensive city and paying back student loans. I don't have a fancy condo in the Loop or a Mercedes in the garage, but I don't need those things.
Miles Jaffe
Dec 31, 14 10:57 am
One important thing NOT taught in arch school is teamwork and leadership. Yet almost all real architecture and building projects require a large team composed of people with vastly different backgrounds, interest and agendas.
^ One of many important things not taught in architecture school. Much if not all of the real education starts after school, so don't think a degree is going to be a magic carpet to anywhere except maybe a free internship. Supply and demand is not on your side.
It can be great, but luck and connections are more important than any schooling you're likely to get. Architecture requires probably the most demanding diverse skill set of any profession - social, technical, managerial, financial and creative (did I leave anything out?), with creative often being the least important.
geezertect
Dec 31, 14 11:04 am
almost 30 years in I'm still happy I'm an architect.
But would you do it again knowing what you know now, and would you recommend it to your eighteen year old kid, or nephew, or niece, or the kid next door?
DeTwan
Dec 31, 14 2:24 pm
Architecture sounds & looks tantalizing from the outside, but reeks of stench on the inside.
Kinda like when Luke climbs into the dead Tauntaun on Star Wars. I wouldn't do unless you have to, and most ppl do it b/c that is all they got & know how to survive (living off the the bread crumbs that architecture rewards you with).
Architecture is:
75% who you know
15% luck
10% work
Russian roulette may have better odds?
I'd stick to something other than architecture.
awaiting_deletion
Dec 31, 14 2:29 pm
Unless you like to work really really hard where the work becomes 50% in turn helping you get to know a lot of people and luck then just happens. The best way to think of it is -it's like becoming a doctor or lawyer but half the pay most the time.......with that said architecture can be anything you want it to and people who complain about not making money are the people that don't make money and since you should understand money making money won't be a problem.
DeTwan
Dec 31, 14 2:47 pm
True, if you don't know anyone & start from the bottom up (like most coming into the field), it is 100% work.
What I noticed most out of my 8 years in the field is that financial mobility is really nonexistent in this field. There are just too may ppl vying for glory of becoming an "architect".
I would start by flipping a couple house, and putting 'your' spin on the interior, then once you get that under your belt, go to better and bigger things.
All I can say is if you got to architecture school, the real world is going to be a BIG disappointment.
x-jla
Dec 31, 14 3:18 pm
Dont spend the money if you cant afford it. After school the 3-10 years of certain poverty and loan deferments following school will ruin much of your adult life. IDP is a financial blackhole. Spend 2000$ on a bunch of arch books 1000$ on the programs and teach yourself. Its pretty much what you will do in school anyway. Post projects on archinect for free no bs reviews. School is a really really too expensive.
Volunteer
Dec 31, 14 5:12 pm
Any student can borrow any amount of money to study anything he/she want at any college that will accept him/her and said college can charge anything it wants to. The whole edifice is backed up by the taxpayer. The student loan default rate is already astronomical and the indebtedness is well over a trillion dollars. To sit in a classroom?
DeTwan
Dec 31, 14 5:15 pm
It is actually the next bubble, the end of higher education in America.
Volunteer
Dec 31, 14 5:49 pm
It's welfare for the professors, deans, administrators, and college presidents who would be living in cardboard boxes under interstate overpasses otherwise. These people are propped up by two income families who are struggling to pay federal taxes on both of their incomes and still stay afloat.
Larchinect
Jan 8, 15 3:30 am
No offense, but the fact that you even considered accounting, tells me you may not be a good fit for a design career.
My suggestion would be to finish your finance degree and take up real estate development as a hobby after you make your first $100M, hire a boutique design firm you can push around and make them your personal drafting team.
shivuy
Jan 8, 15 8:11 am
With all of the negative reality already being said, I really do enjoy the feeling of seeing a project come together from an initial concept. You probably could get that in another field but there's still something satisfying about having a physical embodiment of all that hard work.
If you are seeking wealth, you're heading down the wrong path. But you can make a living.
the orange menace
Jan 8, 15 11:40 am
I'm going to be the contrarian here - I like my job, most of the time. Not always - sometimes I want to throw my computer out the window and walk out, but I can't believe I wouldn't feel that way in another profession occasionally. The pay isn't 'great', but to complain about it would mean I lacked any understanding of reality. The fact that any of us thought we'd get rich in this field is just stupid to begin with.
A business background may help you if you'd like to go out on your own, or go into more of an architect/developer role, or flip homes (as someone mentioned above). If it's what you're interested in and you have the money or can stomach the loans, go for an MArch. Worst case scenario, you fall back on your business degree.
Dear all,
I am currently in my third year of business school and after some soul searching, I realized that I regret the fact that I chose business school over architecture when I had the chance (got accepted by both programs). I chose business school because I thought I would major in Accounting, however, few semesters down the line, I realized that I would be dong a general business degree, with different minors in Finance, HR, Strategy. Basically, my degree will be vague and nothing as specialized and stable as Accounting, which is the reason why originally I chose b-school over architecture, Now, is there a way that I could do a master or certificate in Architecture after graduating from B-School? I know that a combination of business and Architecture is great, though the more classic way is Architecture undergrad then MBA. Thank you guys in advance for your feedback! It would be so much appreciated.
Architecture? Why? Architects don't make any money? There isn't any real business.
To answer your question, you would have to take a 3 year (roughly) Masters in architecture. The question I have with you is, why in the world are you considering architecture? It is a total waste of time. People never pay you what you want. They never pay you what you are worth. They never pay you period. You ask for more than $500 or $1000 to design and they won't even consider paying you. They think you are charging too much money. After all, they think, it's just a 2-3 hour sketch. Why should I pay you more than $500 for one day's 5-10 hours of work? They literally think you already have a catalog of buildings or homes. After all, home design for example is pre-designed.
the question then is with a totally broken business economy that has 100 times as many people offering architectural/building design or design/build services than there is projects.
Business school should have taught you about supply and demand. The demand isn't there. We built more houses and other buildings than there is a need for in the U.S. for at least 50 years. There is too many supplier of services to design buildings. It's a dead end industry. Architecture field is a dead end business. At least in the U.S.
If you want to go into architecture, go to China or the Middle East and take architecture education there.
Otherwise, chose a career in a field that is growing. If I were you, stick with your business degree education because in the end, you'll get more money and a more successful career financially. You can actually afford a home. You can actually afford to have a custom home or such built in the long run. You'll make more money throughout your career than any of us because your business education is more valued. You would probably want to serve the software industry in business and accounting than architecture. There are many avenues so look to areas where it isn't too flooded but also where there is money. If you want to get into Architectural Engineering and Construction realm.... consider land development and running the financial end of things or things like that. FORGET being an "Architect". It isn't even worth it. You'll never make enough money to pay your student loans without defaulting at least one if not multiple times.
Out the door of college, you'll be more valued as an accountant, business administrator, etc. than as an architect. You would be in position to be an entrepreneurer. With finance behind you, you would be trusted more by investors and V.C. for capitalization than an architect which are seen as deadbeat artists just like other starving artists.
Bottom line: The reason the business of architecture is broken is because it is perceived as an art field and there is no viable business in art unless you are a gallery selling art because you don't have to produce the artwork. Art galleries are basically a glorified consignment shop.
You just don't make money in architecture because builders offering design-build services are subsidizing the cost of doing building design/architectural design services and therefore charge at rates that would be less than chinese minimum wage because it is subsidized.
Architects has to have a real occupation that pays the bills and earns the money and architecture is just a hobby in order to compete.
This bears the question why are we still having architectural licensure for what is essentially a hobby now. Not even a real occupation where you work full time as an architect?
Don't make the blunder of trying to be an architect. It isn't worth it at least in the U.S.
There’s reality behind what Richard is saying and many others on this forum will concur. But there’s always a flip side…
I did more or less what you are contemplating. I left my Business major 3 years into it and transferred into Architecture. I didn’t even finish my undergraduate Biz degree even though I was on track for accelerated MBA program. I paid my architecture dues with both undergraduate degree and an MARCH.
Why I did it? I was bored out of my mind with my business education. There’s nothing creative about it, there’s not even much that’s challenging about it. Plus the fact that I didn’t want a career where my success is determined by my butt-kissing and mingling skills. In comparison, architecture education required everything I’ve got and challenged every aspect of my mental and at times physical capabilities, which made for the most satisfying college experience.
Onto real world life after school (6.5 year now). Reality is VERY different from school. Yes, I spent a few months drawing toilet details (but now I’m a code expert in this regard). Yes, I spends lots of time researching boring water proofing and fire protection systems (but I’m now fairly confident that my design won’t leak or burn down if constructed properly). Do I get to design? Yes. So far, I've participated in design for a few very large towers, and many small to medium buildings and interiors. Not only did I participate in design, I also took several of them to completion. Caution: butt-kissing and mingling is still very much required. However, there’s a technical side to my value (the fact that I can design, detail, and get building approved by agency and constructed), that far outshines my unwillingness for butt-kissing.
I graduated straight into the recession. I’m fortunate to have weathered it fairly well (knock on wood). I know classmates from both business and architecture school who have suffered.
As of this writing, only a very small fraction of my architectural acquaintances are out of work. The rest are fully engaged, practicing real architecture and paying bills with it. I know I won’t get rich being an architect, but I’m making a solid living.
Bottom line: architecture is not easy, but it’s also not as bleak as this forum will have you believe. Cheers!
You also have to live where the projects are. There is a few spots in the U.S. Once you are outside that area... you can mostly kiss off architecture as a career that you can sustain on its own. It can't be a fulltime pursuit in those cases. Most have established themselves as offering other services besides architectural services in other fields often related to architecture in some way.
if you are an employee minded person then stay far away from architecture. Its a shit career. If you are an entrepreneurial person then architecture is no different than anything else...you can make money selling hamburgers if you are a smart business person.
@OP, what you suggest is possible - look for programs marked as first professional architecture degree. Start planning now how you will put together a portfolio of creative works to apply. It doesn't need to be building designs, but general evidence that you are interested in spaces and think about buildings is important.
If you actually don't enjoy business or accounting (and don't have any work experience) then having that degree isn't going to give you any advantage compared to other entry-level architects, but that's fine. It might give you an awareness that other architects will lack.
Not sure where you are studying - but the key thing will be to make sure you don't go too far in debt getting an accredited architecture degree. Do some research on entry-level architect salaries in your area and make sure you will be comfortable with that amount of money and any student loan payments you'll need to make.
Architects can make a decent middle-class income, but it takes 5-8 years after graduation to get to that level - and some struggle to find that first job to get in. It won't be as stable as teaching or accounting, but if you're realistic in your expectations it can provide enough for a reasonable lifestyle. It's also lots of work - though most jobs are in different ways.
Also, strongly recommend you find some way to get work experience in an architect's office as soon as possible. Many prospective students have little sense of what the reality is. Like crazyhousecat says it is just as political and nepotistic as any business - and the day-to-day work may not often involve 'creative design.' Given your current degree maybe you could intern doing office-support work at a local firm to get a sense what the work environment is like.
You'd be better off as a hair stylist. Lots of demand, good money, highly social. Everybody needs their hair cut. Well, almost everybody. Nobody needs an architect.
Hi all, thanks a lot for your comments! I have to admit that I was expecting serious warnings about the lack of demand in this field; I don't know if my situation is better, as I live in Canada, QC (cheap tuition), and speak Chinese (would consider working there).
@CrazyHouseCat: I totally understand what you are saying; in business school I don't feel actually learning something tangible/technical. Sure, accounting is a practical tool but it bores the hell out of me and I am not even good at it. Plus, I don't know if I really want to put in the efforts in becoming a master bullshitter as so many of the successful b-school people. Anyways, do you feel that a business degree still somehow helped you in the recession?
I am contemplating architecture as I believe it would be something I would actually be good at (unlike Accounting), since I've always had a way with drawing and visualizing things. Also, Architecture has just enough structure/commercialized to not be as 'care-free' as painting for example (again, considering the comments above, I might be wrong).
Also, I've been told, once, by an architect student, that the one key thing determining one's success as an architect is creativity. How true is that?
Thank you so much for your responses and for taking the time to read my post!!
-Please excuse me as I derail the thread for a mild rant-
'creativity' is an overused word and has become somewhat meaningless in the context of discussing many design-focused careers. As a personal skill it's vaguely defined and impossible to measure. Pretty much anyone who goes into architecture has the creative instinct - some focus on developing that into a professional skill more than others.
I wouldn't say that the most prolific or respected architects are necessarily more creative than us no-names posting on archinect. The things that distinguish famously successful architects from the unaccomplished (or quietly successful!) are more likely business acumen, interpersonal skills, and inner drive.
Client hire architects for results more than potential, which takes more than creativity to achieve. Also, there are many ways to define success - whatever it is, there are many factors that go into it. Having unique and unexpected ideas about built space is only one niche within the larger world of architecture, and by itself not sufficient to succeed.
Anyway, having the creative instinct - the desire to invent and develop ideas into real things - is important. For some people it becomes the focus of their work. Just be aware that architectural design is a back-and-forth process which involves input from very many people. Creativity is only one of the many skills one needs to do well at it. And many successful architects are only mediocre designers.
-end of rant-
I was just talking to a Chinese friend who now lives in Quebec and works as a project manager in a local architect's office. She likes her job, but it doesn't sound like it pays so much. If you want to capitalize on your Chinese language skills you should consider looking for work in Toronto or Vancouver - much more work there on international projects. Entry level salaries in China are very low. If you study in Canada, you'll be much better off to get a few years experience there before moving to China.
Anyway, if you do consistent good work and keep involved in the world outside of school you can get a job and do just fine. Going to school without going into debt will be a big help as it gives you flexibility early in your career. Just make sure to do your research and be aware that you need to develop more than only design skills to make a good career out of this. Good luck!
Creativity alone doesn't really mean much in any field. It goes with the myth of genius and the god's-gift-to-mankind ego but frankly, most people with the right upbringing can accomplish a decent amount of creative work if there weren't institutions that separated the "selected few" from many. How does one advance materials or develop new formulations in labs or business solutions? There isn't a textbook on how to invent the future materials or ideas. To progress forward anywhere requires the same kind of creativity but non-arts attempts are somehow treated as something inferior and scoffed at. Whatever.
Architecture is a large field and the world is quite different than before. This idea of being some master builder in control of everything and in demand is as dead as the glamorized idea of architects and architecture. To make a relevant point of reference, think of an arch firm as a business enterprise providing solutions. Like Goldman Sachs but instead of stocks and such that build monetary value, the service offered is design and the result a building. You need some brilliant people to scheme up things and be on the cutting edge but in most cases, most are working to responsibly (I know, the irony) handling other peoples' money and giving clients a solid return. Not all are famous but good work can be rewarding even if it doesn't grace the magazines or offer the most involved roles. Probably a broken example but not too far-fetched.
Finish one degree then think about the next step. Since architecture is tied into the economy, you can likely find a position that brings you closer to the desired field without any further education after graduation. A lot of people plan their degree roadmaps out early but then realize it's boring or not cut out for them regardless of pay. At least you have the chance to switch out or choose not to and still be fine with a generic widely applicable education. Some have put in decades for some pre-med path only to actually hate the profession and its changing future landscape. Limited options for them.
The thing to remember is that the Internet is often myopic in outlook and draws, hmm, the more vocal voices out of any group. There's plenty of people employed and not lingering online or making due in less than ideal but still fulfilling positions. Expect to possibly work for less than you might deserve and be entitled to. Expect good work out of yourself and it'll be fine. Same for anyone in any field in a market where there are far too many (over)qualified candidates and not enough positions.
Financial responsibility is very important and needs to be a priority - architecture is skating on thin ice as far as that's concerned unless you are in the top 10% - if you fall through the cracks, nobody will pull you out.
elle.v: "I don't know if I really want to put in the efforts in becoming a master bullshitter as so many of the successful b-school people ..."
Well ... then you better not pursue architecture either ... "becoming a master bullshitter" absolutely is a requisite skill in this profession.
Actually, on a more serious note, combining an education in "business" and "architecture" can be quite powerful. While there's a lot of cynicism above, it's still possible to have a rewarding and satisfying career in this profession -- especially if you apply your business skills to your career. Few architects have a decent grasp on business and that makes their situation weak.
It's important to pursue your passion -- just don't ignore the weaknesses inherent in this profession. If you really want to be an architect -- and also are willing to apply what you've learned in B-school -- then there's every reason to think you can have a successful career. And, with the dual degree, you'll have more career flexibility than the typical architecture school graduate.
Good luck.
The thing I noticed is the people who are really successful maintain their vision/idealistic outlook. Most people in architecture react to the rigor/hardships by becoming cynical. I really takes a positive outlook "damn the torpedos" if you will and be headstrong in the face of the realities that cause most people to buckle analogous to becoming a navy SEAL.
It seems that if you combine business and architecture you might become a property developer. You could become a serial bankrupt like Donald Trump or a near-billionaire like Roger Staubach with a solid gold personal and professional reputation. Good luck.
Or you can watch this infomercial
https://www.architectasdeveloper.com/home
@ OP
My business education was tremendously helpful to my architecture career.
One important thing NOT taught in arch school is teamwork and leadership. Yet almost all real architecture and building projects require a large team composed of people with vastly different backgrounds, interest and agendas. Business school prepared me for that. The accounting and statistic classes weren't much help, but the simple awareness of the importance of working with PEOPLE gave me a good edge.
Business school also taught me to always look for more efficient ways of doing anything. Whereas architecture students tend to glorify suffering, often due to lack of efficiency in process. You’ll hear arch students “compare scars” like how many all-nighters they’d pulled. In comparison, I never enjoyed grinding through pain needlessly. I always examined and re-evaluated all my processes and quickly became a top producer at my firm, which helped me weather the recession when I first graduated (I was cheaper, eager to learn, fast and efficient).
Business school also “brainwashed” me to stick to and negotiate hard for my value. Some architects will say they do it because they love it. I do it to create value, for myself, for my firm, and for the community at large. By focusing on adding value, I invest in my continuing growth so that I’m still an asset to my firm even though I’m no longer cheap. And because I negotiated hard and successfully for my own pay, my principals are happy to let me negotiate contract and fees knowing I’ll watch out for the firm’s financial interest.
I’m sure there are other benefits of a business education, but these are some of the most important ones I’ve experienced.
I would be inclined to finish the accounting degree and then look at a Master's in Construction Management at someplace like Virginia Tech or the University of Florida. To a point you can also take courses in architecture, interior architecture, and landscape architecture to round out your education within the curriculum.
elle, bear in mind that many architects will tell you it's a terrible profession to be in. My personal belief is that practitioners in any field will tend to tell you the rough parts, because we want to be helpful and realistic. I still vividly remember, as a freshman in college, when I proudly told an architect I met at a wedding that I was in architecture school and his immediate response was harsh, even angry: "Why on earth would you want to do that?!" as he downed the last of his scotch. Despite hearing similar responses throughout my career, almost 30 years in I'm still happy I'm an architect.
Here is a good blog post from Bob Borson responding to the question Should I Be An Architect? He is a knowledgeable and generally optimistic practitioner.
I'm going to post a similarly optimistic post as Donna. I grew up in Columbus, IN and an architect is the only thing I've ever wanted to be. I don't regret it one bit and love where I'm at.
Sure, do door schedules and hardware submittals suck to review? Yes. Did I ever think I'd have an hour long conference call on a shower mixing valve? No. But, all of the day to day stuff is worth it when you see your project finished. I got a hell of a compliment from someone well known in the art world at a ribbon cutting last month that I'm still riding high from. It's those moments that make everything worth while.
Regarding pay - yes, it can be and is lower than you would think, but I'm living comfortably and with no monetary worries while living in a somewhat expensive city and paying back student loans. I don't have a fancy condo in the Loop or a Mercedes in the garage, but I don't need those things.
One important thing NOT taught in arch school is teamwork and leadership. Yet almost all real architecture and building projects require a large team composed of people with vastly different backgrounds, interest and agendas.
^ One of many important things not taught in architecture school. Much if not all of the real education starts after school, so don't think a degree is going to be a magic carpet to anywhere except maybe a free internship. Supply and demand is not on your side.
It can be great, but luck and connections are more important than any schooling you're likely to get. Architecture requires probably the most demanding diverse skill set of any profession - social, technical, managerial, financial and creative (did I leave anything out?), with creative often being the least important.
almost 30 years in I'm still happy I'm an architect.
But would you do it again knowing what you know now, and would you recommend it to your eighteen year old kid, or nephew, or niece, or the kid next door?
Architecture sounds & looks tantalizing from the outside, but reeks of stench on the inside.
Kinda like when Luke climbs into the dead Tauntaun on Star Wars. I wouldn't do unless you have to, and most ppl do it b/c that is all they got & know how to survive (living off the the bread crumbs that architecture rewards you with).
Architecture is:
75% who you know
15% luck
10% work
Russian roulette may have better odds?
I'd stick to something other than architecture.
Unless you like to work really really hard where the work becomes 50% in turn helping you get to know a lot of people and luck then just happens. The best way to think of it is -it's like becoming a doctor or lawyer but half the pay most the time.......with that said architecture can be anything you want it to and people who complain about not making money are the people that don't make money and since you should understand money making money won't be a problem.
True, if you don't know anyone & start from the bottom up (like most coming into the field), it is 100% work.
What I noticed most out of my 8 years in the field is that financial mobility is really nonexistent in this field. There are just too may ppl vying for glory of becoming an "architect".
I would start by flipping a couple house, and putting 'your' spin on the interior, then once you get that under your belt, go to better and bigger things.
All I can say is if you got to architecture school, the real world is going to be a BIG disappointment.
Dont spend the money if you cant afford it. After school the 3-10 years of certain poverty and loan deferments following school will ruin much of your adult life. IDP is a financial blackhole. Spend 2000$ on a bunch of arch books 1000$ on the programs and teach yourself. Its pretty much what you will do in school anyway. Post projects on archinect for free no bs reviews. School is a really really too expensive.
Any student can borrow any amount of money to study anything he/she want at any college that will accept him/her and said college can charge anything it wants to. The whole edifice is backed up by the taxpayer. The student loan default rate is already astronomical and the indebtedness is well over a trillion dollars. To sit in a classroom?
It is actually the next bubble, the end of higher education in America.
It's welfare for the professors, deans, administrators, and college presidents who would be living in cardboard boxes under interstate overpasses otherwise. These people are propped up by two income families who are struggling to pay federal taxes on both of their incomes and still stay afloat.
No offense, but the fact that you even considered accounting, tells me you may not be a good fit for a design career.
My suggestion would be to finish your finance degree and take up real estate development as a hobby after you make your first $100M, hire a boutique design firm you can push around and make them your personal drafting team.
With all of the negative reality already being said, I really do enjoy the feeling of seeing a project come together from an initial concept. You probably could get that in another field but there's still something satisfying about having a physical embodiment of all that hard work.
If you are seeking wealth, you're heading down the wrong path. But you can make a living.
I'm going to be the contrarian here - I like my job, most of the time. Not always - sometimes I want to throw my computer out the window and walk out, but I can't believe I wouldn't feel that way in another profession occasionally. The pay isn't 'great', but to complain about it would mean I lacked any understanding of reality. The fact that any of us thought we'd get rich in this field is just stupid to begin with.
A business background may help you if you'd like to go out on your own, or go into more of an architect/developer role, or flip homes (as someone mentioned above). If it's what you're interested in and you have the money or can stomach the loans, go for an MArch. Worst case scenario, you fall back on your business degree.