yeah it sucks. i wonder if there are firms that only do hand drawings and use no computers. i would love to work for one at some point because i admire the artistic value in architecture, where something is completely built from the use of human intervals in no assistance of modern technology.

i admire artistic value just as much as the next person, and i see more possibilities for artistic experimentation and innovation by embracing new technologies rather then romanticize old techniques. I have seen some really ugly computer draws, but i have also seen some really ugly hand drawings. its all about who is using the tool, rather then about what tool they are using. Just my opinion. different strokes for different folks i guess.

as far as archi vs. auto. a friend of mine uses archicad and i am a huge autocad fan. i choose it over archicad because you are constructing draws similarly to the way you construct them on paper. in archicad you built a model of the project then cut all your plans/ sections/ details from that model. you do have control over line weights and but you are not as free to do small sketch drawing or studies all over your "model space."

So to answer the question, no it doesn't function like autocad. it produces the same types of drawing, but it does so in different ways then traditional drafting programs. hope that helps.

archicad is more comparable to revit that it is to autocad.

it's interesting that you're encountering firms specifically requiring archicad experience. i wouldn't say archicad is a "mainstream" program in the way autocad and, to a growing extent, revit are.

most firms i've encountered who use anything outside of the mainstream typically only require job candidates to be proficient in *some* vector drawing and/or 3D modeling software and expect to bring their new hires up to speed on the specific program they use.

if you have an open mind, it doesn't take more than a few weeks for someone with reasonable autocad proficiency to become minimally competent in the use of one of these other programs.

i was going to try to download the trial version of archicad just to mess with it.

i'm really a fan of creating 3d models for the use of construction (unless you have some morphed roof where you need points). i have heard that it's a pain to link/coordinate/etc objects in revit so when you shift a wall, other items adjust with it.... like walls/joists/roof

b

I have been doing 3D for 12 years - first Maya, and Max, then I studied architecture, recieved my M.arch, and have been using Revit for 2.5 years. The profession is now embracing 3D and BIM. Sometimes, it does not pay to be on the bleeding edge. When I started out, traditional firms(hand drawing + autocad) would not hire me. In 2007 it took 8 months to find a job in a BIM environment with a major office in San Francisco. Having said that, BIM + Rhino, and other 3D is the way of the future - Architecture student in the high schools are learning BIM, and will soon be in architecture school. So I suspect in 5 years the environment will be to BIM. This recession may expedite the transition.

AutoCAD recently changed it's Discussion Groups etc. to a new format and everybody got a new "temporary password". So you go back to log into your account and get thrown into all these other password changing menus and the system won't let you in at all.

F-ing genius strikes again AutoCAD, thanks a bunch!

I would use Revit over Archicad...but there are plenty of threads about this.

По-русски how do you feel about the BIM in Rhinoceros with VisualARQ?

or grasshopper or paracloud for that matter

I need to learn archicad...it is quickly becoming the practice standard in my neck of the woods, and oddly no one is doing training for it just yet.

hype

it would still be interesting to know if there is a firm out there with no computers. anyone know of any?

Revit and Archicad (as well as other BIM CAD apps) are being used more frequently and as the economy worsens and material prices go up developers are unlikely to allow costs to fluctuate within projects.

Personally I really hope Archicad/allplan/vectorworks (all owned by the same company, although they really need to streamline them into one great product that beginners can use and experts customise and master to work at a fast pace) take a higher market share since Autodesk are just arrogant and aren't adding a lot of innovation (more like buying it). It seems strange that smaller companies such as McNeel and their dedicated users are driving design forward.

I really wish architects would stop listening to engineers for software advice since our job roles are quite different and the software should represent that. All we need is an open interchangeable file format (that any piece of software both professions can read) so that we can consult with each other during the design and construction process easily.

Maybe I'm an idealist but it would be great to use any piece of software you feel comfortable using to do the same thing, like 3D artists currently do (maya, 3dsmax, modo, lightwave, zbrush etc.)

End rant.

grab life by the horn and ride, all you desire is possible

Archicad 12 or Revit? seems like is the only solution to the growing demand to generate 3d models and Construction Docs at the same time. There is a huge gap in our Practice that will not close unless the Adaptation of BIM is heavily persuaded plain and simple. I would say if you can pick up the basic operation of archicad in 3 days the move on to the next. i use archicad and it has made production faster and efficient but it is not for everyone (expensive License).

but i will recommend it without any hesitations.

+

in respone - from what i ahve seen Grasshopper + Rhino can do some amazing stuff. Paracloud is another. I think if your going to be a BIMWIT - go all the way. Paracloud and Rhino/grasshopper can do many forms, and skin structures that are difficult to do in Revit. VisualARQ I need to to look at. I think this current economic situation is going to Be. Lets say if 1 architect or a very small team can design a high rise with BIM instead of a large team with autocad - what does that tell you - now that many firms are looking for ways to cot costs, and yet obtain more work in an exponentially increasingly competitive environment?

i have nothing to add but i can't look at the th$%#*eh59843y5y4*&&^%3hfr9ehwf7ret for the poster's name anymore

in hard economic times do you think people will go for less expensive smaller company (more powerful as hands on outside of the box)

or

big box proprietary software pirated where the company that owns/owned may not exist

in hard economic times...... whos building....

organized communities are with reuse, renewable & recyclable materials

small grocers and pharmacies are too

ArchiCAD is a fantastic program. I've used it on and off since version 8. I'm stuck on AutoCAD again now and it's driving me mad. It has always been and will always continue to be an engineering program, and badly suited to producing architecture. It massively streamlines document production, and gives you much more time to concentrate on the design and the detailing.

If you haven't used the BIM approach before, it does involve a bit of a shift in thinking. You have to change the way you go about your process, but if you put in the work on the model it will pay dividends come documentation time. Automatic scheduling anyone?

I've only spent a little time on Revit and while it's a step in the right direction for Autodesk, it seems (in their typical fashion) to be far too overcomplicated for the tasks required, and far less intunitive than ArchiCAD. Maybe it will get better over time but Graphisoft have several years head-start on them.

I do appreciate the nostalgia for sketches and the quick-and-dirty approach that AutoCAD lends itself to...but that's what butter-paper is for. It's true that an ArchiCAD license is expensive, but who can honestly say they use all the stupidly complex functions that AutoCAD offers? At the end of the day everything still has to be amended manually.

In my opinion BIM offers too many advantages to be ignored...

I agree that BIM has a lot of advantages and I have no doubt that it will eventually supplant 2D drafting programs but it remains to be seen just how far it goes in changing typical project deliverables.

A lot of companies making BIM software seem to tout the fantasy of how it might someday let you fully model your building down to the last screw and nail, including fully integrated MEP modeling, and then turn that model over to the contractor in lieu of drawings. As much as that fantasy excites CAD geeks, I think it scares architects, and perhaps scares them away from BIM altogether.

Right now I think BIM would be an easier sell if its makers marketed the strengths that are useful to architects today - it's data tracking abilities and ability to not have to do plan, section, elevation, and 3d drawings all separately - rather than trying to sell us on some fantasy that may never come true.

BIM is so last year and better suited for big metal box bldgs, with parts lists

even AIA stopped talking about it

4arch, I agree, that's why I think Revit has possibly tried to take the all-seeing model concept a bit too far. At the end of the day the idea is still to generate a complete, concise and coordinated set of construction documents as quickly and efficiently as possible.

I haven't really seen anyone suggesting that a model will supplant a drawing set, but i've seen it start to be used to coordinate information with other consultants. It allowed us on one project to import every single steel member from the steel fabricator's model (which they use directly for manufacture) and cut dozens of instant sections through our building models to determine where we had clashes. It was a process that would have taken weeks using 2D drawings.

The scheduling possibilities are one function we hadn't quite got the hang of at the time, but the ability to generate instant door, window and area data could have saved so many headaches and wasted hours.

nothing a script and named blocks couldn't do

Uh, this is wrong Versus. Its like Mike Tyson VS. J.César Chávez. I think you get the point - Mike Tyson: Archicad, Cesar Chavez: Autocad. Basically ArchiCad is BIM solution like Revit excpet I must say friendlier from user point of view, and Autocad, well we all know what Autocad is, don't we?

yes but we would rather use IntelliCAD in it's place for free with the same functionality.