el jeffe, i learned from your posts you have some problem with me. you are always making banal/perverted comments after my posts. this is the second time i noticed this.

that was a semi edited version of 'expert' from wickipedia.
why don't you come out and say what you want to say about the importance of inclusion of calculus into architecture, or vica versa.

stop farting and jerking towards me.

"Differentials "Y'! Differentials "X"! To Hell With Differentials......

If you can finish that verse, then you know 'the Word'. Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

if i got credit for all the calc classes i took, i would have been a math minor. seriously, it was that bad.

Dear abra,
no problem, just appreciation.
-el jeffe

okidoki. i am a little sensetive today thinking about my sister and her husband marcel. sugarland, near houston. many a times i read and respect your posts.

Thanks for all the responses to this, and especially for letting me vent. My conclusion is that Calc is a bit like going through a Fraternity Hazing.... people seem to believe that since they went through it, everyone has to. I appreciate your taking the time to respond, although I was a bit offended by ochona making broad generalizations about me. I would think that someone as "skilled" in math as you would understand the importance of sample size. From what I posted, how can you infer that "people like me cheat on tests" and that I have no knowledge of Vitruvius? That seems like very dangerous inductive reasoning. I pride myself in never ONCE having cheated in school in ANY way. I made it through the Physics of Astronomy with a D, but dammit, I earned it. It's not so much that Math is hard for me, it just seems like I'd be better prepared for a career if I were to spend my time studying things that I would need to use on a daily basis. I've been working full-time in an office for about a year now, while going to school full-time. It's been very hard, but also very rewarding. I guess I was just disappointed to learn that a lot of the hoops I was required to jump through weren't really preparing me for the workforce. Thanks again for all your posts, I really enjoy this site, and have sent links to a few people around the office!

calculus was the best math class i ever took! second to finite automata, of course!

i'm sorry about the implication since it's not true -- it's just that i saw so much of what i described going on around me. it still pisses me off today because i know that some of those people got out of school with good grades and good jobs. not that i didn't, but i had to earn damn near everything i got. it sounds like you do/did too, and i should have included some modifiers in what i wrote!

i came from a background where it was/is such a privilege and an honor to get a college education and when i came to college i saw so many people wasting their own time, other people's time, and since i went to a public university -- taxpayers' money.

and no, vitruvius had nothing to say about calculus ... although he does have much to say about oracles.

oh -- early mornings rock?

and i didn't do so hot in M408 calculus I, either.

We only needed Precal.
then of course
Structures I, II and Physics with an "architectural concentration"

Why do you need English Composition?
Why do you need 3 science classes (Dinosaur Biology, Ring of Fire, and Physics for me?
Why do you need English Prerequisites?
You don't need any of this crap to be an architect.
Neither does a political science major, music major, or psychology major.
Your taking calculus because you're in COLLEGE.
You're probably sitting next to an english major saying the same thing.
Half of my architecture classes are useless to me in the real world.
Why don't you ask yourself this: Why do you have to learn how to draw a straight line?

i took symbolic logic instead of calculus, which was hard!!! but good for me in developing problem solving/logical skills.

and really enjoyed the math we had to do in physics and structures because the arithmetic was applied.

i'm not really a math person, and sadly go to my calculator for even most simple math (it's really scary when i try to figure out fractions) but, i think math is cool, and echo the comments about being a well rounded learned individual.

We need to apply more of what we learn in school, especially calculus...and Math of mgt, which had a lot of great functions one could use in Vegas.

Actually, my skool offered a class for Archt majors to fulfill their 3rd math reqt by not taking Calc3. It was called 'geometry for Architects'. DAYYYummm, that was hard as friggin' hell! By the 1st exam we were all looking @ ourselves going WTF?! How could Geomoetry be tougher than Dif-E-Qs? Seems that we got the most sado-masochistic math prof, who just happened to dislike architects.

Gotta watch what we wish for.

the flip side of that, though, mm, is a class i took: 'light, color, and vision'. popularly known as 'physics for poets'. most schools have one of these classes.

You know Steven, with some of this 'vast' experience behind me, I'd actually like to go back & take some classes like these. I think I'd be more likely to find actual uses for them now - esp. the more 'esoteric' math like your 'physics for poets', or 'geom for archts'.

Oh yeah, I'd also like to sit in on the SATs now - DIE you pre-college kiddies!!

i took the GRE three years ago and scored a full 200 points lower than on my SATs which i took in 1995. strangely, my verbal aptitude was what plummeted. hmm...after five years of architecture school people can no longer speak and read coherently? no way!

i think i hit the peak of my intelligence somewhere around the 12th grade. i definitely know it was before i could drink legally.

i have to say i enjoyed my calculus experience. I took it before deciding on arch. so it was at normal "words and books" style university. My professor based an enormous amount of the problems around "experiments" she and her husband would carry out. Most of these experiments had the same basic elements: gunpowder and something to shoot up in the air via said gunpowder. I have to admit calculating the area under the curve created by the trajectory of launching a deer decoy into the air always made it seem more practical.

calculating the area under the curve seemed to me utterly magical. And when that curve was an asymptote, and the area was = 1, I was totally blown away.

i was too blown away by relativity once we got into it and how time does slow down as you go faster. incredible. now if i could only integrate objects moving at relativisitc speeds in my design....

it's to keep the cheerleaders out

At Cranbrook we had a semester of math one night a week and life drawing the next morning. A "mathmetician" would come in and we'd talk about concepts like infinity and planar flatness on the curved surface of the earth. Then we'd look at a naked body and draw. Great balance.