The role of Archinect’s series Cross-Talk is to bring forward the positive aspects of the polemic and allow for the resulting conflict to bring to life an otherwise still and comfortable climate of creativity—if there can be one. Cross-Talk attempts—if to only say that it did—to allow text the freedom that the image has accepted and embraced. Cross-Talk attempts to force the no, to contradict itself, to anger, to please and then anger again, if only to force a stance, to pull out the position of the self, of the discipline and of the hour as a means to begin and maintain conversations moving forward. 

On the most recent episode of Archinect Sessions I brought up the topic of criticism with my co-hosts Donna and Ken, as it relates to us personally here on Archinect and in our professional lives. The following includes some brief selections from the conversation, edited for easier reading. To listen to the entire episode subscribe to the podcast or go here to listen online.

The conversation about criticism starts while discussing the "shitty men in architecture" list, a semi-private Google Spreadsheet started and administered by an anonymous group of contributors. The list has grown to include individuals accused of bad behavior extending far beyond that of sexual abuse. 

On Criticism of Toxic Behavior in the Architecture Industry

Ken: I think it's good to have this discussion. Everyone thinks every person on the list is a Harvey Weinstein. It's not the case. It's a shitty men in architecture list. It's about the shitty behaviors in architecture. I think we're in a landscape where people think that the shitty behavior is only about sexual harassment and assault and rape and violent behavior. But it's also about what is the expectation of somebody working for somebody? Should I have to deal with the constant belittling? Should I have to deal with the microaggressions or the things that men get that women don't get? It's really much broader than I think what people expect it to be. And therein lies some of the problems.

Donna: Honestly, to me, speaking as a woman of course, there are indignities that women have suffered and continue to suffer. But when I think about this in terms of architecture, my greatest hope for this shitty architecture men list is that it bring us as a profession and as a community of architects to discuss why our profession has to be abusive to our own members. You know, my hope is that we can stop with the studio culture of forcing all nighters. Stop with the self abuse of students taking Ritalin or whatever to keep themselves up all night so that they can do the work because the professor will judge them harshly if they don't stay up all night, whether or not the work is good. If they don't stay up all night they're seen as not putting in sufficient effort. That's bullshit. 

... my greatest hope for this shitty architecture men list is that it bring us as a profession and as a community of architects to discuss why our profession has to be abusive to our own members

My hope is that we can go away from critiques with students being lambasted by a group of black-clad professionals that are basically only there to impress one another with their commentary on the students work. The student is just a tool for them to talk to each other. That's bullshit. Like my hope is that those indignities of our profession can go away.

I just want to go back again to S. Surface's article, How the 'Shitty Architecture Men' list can address abuse in architecture. There's a quote from it that says, "... architects, who address complex issues in their work, are more than capable of orienting themselves to the task of cutting out their own 'shitty' behavior. You teach in the world’s most elite institutions. You figured out how to construct unprecedented skyscrapers. You master-planned entire swaths of major cities. You can figure this out." When I think about it in those terms of we as a community of problem solvers and how can we solve this... we totally can make good come out of this this moment in our discipline. I feel optimistic.

Ken: I'm going to take a little bit of a contrarian view on this. I wasn't an honors student so I didn't get the pick of my studio professors so I really had to work harder and I always saw the criticism within a particular lens. And maybe I was lucky maybe with the fact that I was a man and I was an adult student. I wasn't a young student. I didn't go to college when I was 18 fresh out of high school so I don't have that experience. I came to it pretty hardened already so saying something to me that wasn't going to be aligning with my personality wasn't going to fly with me. And I've had my share of bad crits and I've had my share of horrible crits. I'm always asking myself, "well here's a bad crit. Let me take a look at the effort. Was the effort there? Did I deserve the grade I got?" I never challenge a grade. I have friends who were students who got 1500 on the SAT's (back when they mattered) and who were super smart and were honor students. And they did really shitty in studio they were shitty designers and they were the ones challenging their grades because they had this idea that they were the be all end all.

I took a more reflective view. Did the effort align with the grade I got? Or did the effort align with the criticism? I realized I was angry. I was pretty pissed off at a lot of grades I got and I was pissed off at some of the criticism I got. I had to evaluate if I respected this person that's given me the criticism. If I didn't respect them, it was easier to brush it off. If I respected them I understood where the criticism was coming from.

I worked for a firm in Omaha. One of the first jobs I had. The architect had been published in Record and Review. He won a shit-ton of AIA awards. And I had never really put together a set of construction documents before. So, I was doing this hand drawing and he took it, pinned it up on the wall and proceeded to critique it and tear me a new fucking asshole. It was horrible. The most embarrassing experience I've ever had as a young designer. Every experience I've ever had at a firm has been either good or bad but it's taught me something. And at the end of the day it's taught me who don't I want to be who I want to be.

Every experience I've ever had at a firm has been either good or bad but it's taught me something. And at the end of the day it's taught me who don't I want to be who I want to be.

Donna: But in a way you're the one who's taken it and turned it into a lesson. There's a local architect who I know has given redlines to a intern with a red Sharpie just wrote "WTF". "What the fuck" across that detail! That's not helpful. No one's going to learn from a redline that says "WTF". What they're going to learn from is if that person generously says, "here's what you did wrong... here is how you can improve it... why did you think about doing it this way versus that way." That's what helps people learn. Yes, every now and then we all need a come to Jesus talk but I don't think that that's the most useful way of teaching.

The first time I wrote an op-ed on Archinect was 10 years ago. It was called Generous Criticism and that's been my thing. If you're going to criticize someone make it in a way that is helpful to that person. Call out shit when you see it but don't just say that's shit.

On Criticism from Trolls

Paul: I've always admired the way that you guys have been apparently resilient to trollish comments on Archinect. Donna and Ken, you take different responses to this. Donna you tend to take a more empathetic, understanding, and productive approach. Ken can get pretty harsh in his response, but few people can argue that when Ken lays down the law it's usually to somebody who deserves it. Ken's ready to fight. Donna, you come across like you truly just made me feel sorry for who this person is that's leading them to to unleash on somebody they don't know in a public forum. How do you guys take online criticism and this type of trolling? Does it ever bother you?

A criticism I get from my best friend I will weigh in my heart differently than criticism I get from some online jerk who I will never know.

Donna: Of course it does. Anytime anyone says anything negative about me it bothers me. Absolutely. I mean I think we're all human. But I'm older now. A criticism I get from my best friend I will weigh in my heart differently than criticism I get from some online jerk who I will never know.

Ken: Early on in my involvement on Archinect I was much more passionate and much more raw in terms of how criticism came at me and it was much less considered in my responses. There's one particular individual who really stopped me dead in my tracks about something I had been working on because he said every premise that I had about the thing that I was writing about was wrong. Even today it bothers me because I think about what is right and what is wrong. It's your interpretation. It's my interpretation. It's this other architects particular interpretation.

On Criticism in Professional Practice

Paul: As someone that does not practice architecture as both of you do, I'm curious... how often do you come across architects that clearly do not know what they're doing and in certain areas but think they do? Is that a chronic issue in architecture?

Donna: Yes

Paul: Do you communicate that to these people ever or do you just let it slide?

Donna: It depends on the situation. Around liability issues and protocols, there's all kinds of various ways. If I'm working with someone in my own firm who I know doesn't understand how something is done you sit down and take time with them because it's for the good of the whole firm for them to learn what they're doing.

Ken: Yeah. But you know, Paul, it's interesting because each of us as as design professionals we have to do that for ourselves, about ourselves. I am not unlike the many professionals who are licensed now who figured out a grey area when they were doing their IDP, who never got experience in AIA contracts. I never did. I never had. I don't know. We're faking it until we make it and we're working through the projects that we have either privately or with firms, like making our mistakes and making them small but making them fast and learning quick. So it's not just for me to another future professional. It's me with myself.

Doing the butcher's project my own was a fucking nightmare at first because I'd never done a project on my own before. It was frightening. And I learned a lot from my experience and I every time I do another project and learn a little bit more.

I have to work harder when it comes to somebody else's work because I'm the one signing these drawings I'm the one who has all the liabilities. I have a client who I trust implicitly who is giving me a lot of room and knows that I have her best interest in mind. So it's hard for me to level a lot. It was interesting because my client had been talking to her designers and they said, "you know Ken's really hard on us. He's really really hard on us and you know we've never been talked to that way. He gives us a demand and needs these drawings at a certain time. But, damn, Ken's really smart."    

I'm not really smart I just have done this a few times and I know what's necessary.

Donna: You know what you're talking about. That's the thing. But you're going to end up on the shitty men architecture list. (laughter)

Paul: Speaking of clients. What do you do when you get criticism from your clients? What do you do when you know a client is wrong? You're an architect and you know what needs to be done and the client doesn't see it that way. How do you address that type of criticism?

Donna: This is actually timely for me. One of my rules is that, ultimately, it's the client that is living in or using the space. Ultimately, in the long term, I don't want them to be unhappy in their space. So even when they make a decision that I just cannot fight, for whatever reason, that I think is bad, I won't tell them.

Paul: Will you ever try to change their mind?

Donna: Oh, I will fight to change their mind as hard as I can. I have a client who recently made a decision that I completely disagreed with. I shared so many conversations and e-mails and drawings (that I did on my own time, not being paid to do them) just because I wanted to convince this person. I ultimately lost. And the thing is built now. It had to do with alignment of wood. To me, it looks too perfect and kind of dead. And I thought there was a beauty in the misaligned wood grain of the previous iteration but this client just disagreed with me. I will never tell this person that to me it looks dead and plain because I don't want them to not like it. I want them to love their space. So, even though I lost the battle I want them to be happy. Ultimately, that's that's most important to me. It's kind of a small detail. It's one that most people wouldn't notice but I do notice it.

Ken: The first restaurant I did. I held onto the deposit for three months. I just couldn't figure out how this idea was going to work. I just didn't understand it. They were talking to me about what they wanted to do but I didn't believe in this project. I just didn't believe it would work. I finally got to the point where, for three months, I'm like, "What do I know? I'm just a dumb architect. I don't know anything about the restaurant business. I've never run one. I've worked in a few. What do I know? I mean they could they can be the best thing in the world." Turns out they had great food, they had a great idea, but they closed eight months later and they closed for the reasons I was thinking in head that would make them fail. So I decided I'm going to tell the clients that I have from now on, where I see the pitfalls.

Typically, the clients I get don't have a lot of money. They're tilting toward their dreams and I want to make those dreams happen. I'm going to do the best I can. But I'm also pointing towards resources that makes it more viable for them to realize their dreams. If I understand that there are funding resources or abilities to get money on a reduced rate, or neighborhood community grants that help them improve their facade, I'm totally down for that. I'm getting into an area that I didn't expect to get into, which is really cool, so I share that knowledge. I fired a client that I worked hard to get. I wasn't getting paid a lot of money to do it but I fired them for particularly the reason that Paul cited. They wanted to do something and they had a vision. I just did not believe in it and I got tired of dealing with the bullshit. It was a year that I had been working with this particular client and then she brings in her fucking brand designer. This is not what I do. I won't build somebody else's design. This relationship is not working for me and I fired them.

People have been pretty critical of me because of how I offer my services and the fee I expect, and I learned some lessons. I won't do that anymore for a lot of people but I will do it for the people who are coming from, or in communities that have been particularly marginalized by the designing community, and haven't been given design services. Who normally couldn't afford a service like mine. So I extend myself in ways in that area. But when when it comes to clients who are out making a profit, you can bet your ass I'm going to be charging them money. I extended myself on this particular project. If I didn't offer pro bono service to this particular client because I wanted to do it, and I was kind of in it for a high dollar fee, it would have been harder for me to make that make that choice because there's a lot more money on the table at that point. I'll just do whatever they wanna do. So that was the easy decision for me because the money wasn't there and it was just sucking my time. It made it easier for me to step away to say fuck that.

Paul: The the only time I ever fired a client I went down in a glorious blaze of fire. We were designing a website for this company here in LA that creates trailers for big blockbuster movies. I went to present the final site and the owner of the company brought in his laptop with a animation that his 7 year old son made and said, "This is what I want the homepage to be". It was their the logo rolling around on the ground. He decided at the very end of the project that he had a completely different vision for everything. I told him to hire his son and I left.

Donna: It's a hard thing, in the design world, because you are really putting yourself out there, in what you believe personally. And then you also have to balance that with the fact that it's a business. Of course you are passionate about it, of course we care deeply about it. I've fired clients too. Sometimes you just have to you have to walk away.

Paul: Well, it's a criticism fueled industry. A lot of the work we do is out of passion, and a lot of it is subjective. Things are perceived very differently by other people so I think if you're going to work in the world of architecture and design, criticism is something that's just part of the game.