What is the appropriate job title if you're a graduate of an architecture program? In my case, I have a Bachelors and I haven't done a (professional) M. Arch yet. When I was in college, I worked at different offices and was considered either an intern/ architectural assistant. What do I call myself now? Does it matter? When looking for jobs in between undergrad and masters, does one look for "internships" or "full time employment"?
Paradox
May 23, 10 6:52 am
Your title doesn't really matter I think but as far as I know you have to have about 2-3 years of experience to apply to Junior Designer/Junior Architect positions.
DisplacedArchitect
May 23, 10 4:58 pm
examining your questions.
-The most accurate title we can use until we are licensed is either Architect Intern or Intern Architect.
Though within a company they will give you an official company title like you said architects assistant, or some variation of that.
Does it matter?
It matters, to the bureaucrats, and lawyers waiting to sue us for any reason.
When looking for jobs ... undergrad and masters?
do you have a 4 year degree? because a 5 year degree is a professional degree considered equivalent to a masters.
the answer is when you look for a job you will find a lot more positions available to interns for summer time, which can be something good for someone with a 4 year bachelors degree, If you have a 5 year professional degree or a masters i advise you go get a full time job asap.
NCARB does provide a path to licensure for people with a 4 year degree too.
good luck bets
2step
May 23, 10 7:38 pm
Fluffer
Bets
May 23, 10 9:38 pm
Thanks guys.
@LiveLoad - I have 4 years degree. It's not professional, sadly, (I would totally have gone for a 5 years professional degree and be done with school if I had been more informed when I applied to undergrad programs.) I have over 2 years of experience as an intern though, not sure if that counts for anything in the job market these days. I'm basically trying to pay off some of my loans before beginning masters and accruing more debt, so I plan to work for at least one or two years between my degrees.
iheartbooks
May 24, 10 10:24 am
Assistant project manager.
zen maker
May 24, 10 10:29 am
intern's assistant
Paradox
May 24, 10 10:29 am
Hmm if you don't have a professional degree maybe the "junior architect" title may not be right for you..I live in NY and in here you can still get licensed with a 4 year non-professional degree (which I have) but I have a feeling they prefer 5 year degree holders to 4 year ones..
I guess this is the only profession where you get to be called an intern until you get licensed but at the same time technically you shouldn't be an "intern" after 2 years of experience because as we know when you intern for a firm,during your internship the firm shouldn't be able to make money on you otherwise it is called slavery and I believe even after 6 months of professional experience,with your skillset and knowledge you CAN make a firm make money therefore you shouldn't still be an intern imho.
Paradox
May 24, 10 10:37 am
Ya know project manager sounds hella sexy too you should try that! And it doesn't require a 5 year degree. :p
zen maker
May 24, 10 4:49 pm
Its funny, I had to take 1 year off in college, and it took me 5 years to get regular 4 year degree, but now most places that I apply to think I have a 5 year degree, I just keep quiet and don't even explain to them that its just a regular 4 year bachelor's of science in arch... hehehhe
Paradox
May 24, 10 5:01 pm
Actually it also took me 5 years to get it because I couldn't deal with 16 credits per semester..good idea zen. ;)
model.bot
May 24, 10 7:48 pm
I prefer "Minion," but I also go by Flunky, Yes-person, Lackey, Expendable, Stooge, Toady, or Indentured Servant.
nabrU
Jun 27, 18 5:02 pm
I worked somewhere where the term appeared to be ‘resources’, I also watched a documentary recently about a British army team attempting the north face of Everest whom referred to their Sherpa betters by the same term. The army team failed to summit.
marlowe
May 24, 10 8:00 pm
Most large firms use a titles like "Arch I" for those who are unlicensed.
Not to get too picky here but some states don't allow you to use "architect" as either a prefix or suffix in a job title.
I'd suggest checking with your state board to see if they have any special rules. I think using "Intern" in any title is inappropriate once you've graduated from college.
DisplacedArchitect
May 25, 10 1:45 am
totally agree with you marlow,
about the word intern, it especially feels strange when you realize you know more about how a building gets built than your boss a 20 to 30 year man that was so strange, when it first happened to me, we leave college with the highest hopes that we will work for a leibermeister and look what happens, its a desert out there these days. No Leibermeisters in site.
Bets
Jun 1, 10 6:05 am
I guess "resident cad monkey" always applies.
@Parad0xx86 - didn't know you could get licensed with a 4 year degree in NY. I'm actually planning on moving there. I had interned in NYC (actual college internship, not "intern architect") and absolutely fell in love with the city, yup I'm one of those, so now that the economy's supposed to be picking up (so they say... hey, it doesn't hurt to look on the bright side does it?), I'd like to go back. That would be seriously awesome though - who needs to fork out more cash for a masters and go through some more insane studio deadlines when you could get licensed and start slaving away as a real architect, right?
Steven Ward
Jun 1, 10 7:21 am
what to put on your resume: the one that describes best what role you want to take
ads to answer: those that describe best the role you want to take
there is no correct. firms will pick the words that they think best describes the work they expect from a new hire. if they're even being that thoughtful about the job listing.
i'd suggest not getting too hung up on the words if you're just looking for any entry level position. interpret liberally...
pigeon
Jun 1, 10 1:28 pm
§ 7306. Exempt persons-
"Employment of any person as a junior or assistant architect by the City of New York in a position the title of which was approved and in use as of July first, nineteen hundred seventy-one, provided such person acts under the general direction of a licensed architect."
whats better? housewife or domestic engineer? because they both pay the same.
Shaw
Jun 27, 18 10:36 am
Excluding all of the confusion, complicated arguments, and fuss coming from the AIA and NCARB - and placing one's self in the following cities as someone 'on the street' or in a local cafe/Starbucks:
New York London Moscow Nairobi Calcutta Beijing Sydney Lima
Ask the following question of a number of citizens-people you may meet:
What do you call someone who has earned a professional-terminal degree from a school/college of architecture?
The answer will almost always be 'Architect'. And it will never be answered differently, no matter what the AIA or NCARB says about educating people about the profession. This is something which is so anthropologically engrained into every human being, it will never change.
kjdt
Jun 27, 18 11:21 am
Granted I'm not in any of the cities on your list, but I just tried this on the people at the sidewalk cafe across the street from my office. I asked 6 people, none of whom heard me ask the others, or heard their responses. I got: one "Architect", two "Apprentice", two "Designer", two "Architectural Designer", and one "Trainee Architect". Maybe others can try and report on their results.
Shaw
Jun 27, 18 11:42 am
Interesting; in my experience, nearly 100% of the greater public says 'Architect' when they hear that I have a degree in the same. It's amazing - especially when dealing with the media. Thanks for sharing kjdt!
Non Sequitur
Jun 27, 18 12:21 pm
not this dead horse beating spectacle again...
kjdt
Jun 27, 18 12:49 pm
I have no idea what the situation is in the various international cities you mentioned, but I think there's some general awareness in the US that in most professions the terminal title isn't bestowed immediately upon graduation (medical professions being exceptions). More people are probably familiar with engineers than with architects, and engineers typically go through the EIT stage, so a lot of the public probably assumes the same about architects. I also let the people I asked guess multiple titles if they wanted to, and they may have guessed just from my asking the question in the first place that the answer might not be as simple as "architect".
Shaw
Jun 27, 18 1:13 pm
Some people are not able to become licensed for the rest of their lives, thanks to the new and improved NCARB. Licensure is not for everyone - that's the main point. Schools of architecture are geared toward licensure exclusively, and the truth is that not everyone is geared for professional practice. There are many other areas of participation, and even the federal government lists jobs as 'Architect' which do not require registration. Historic Preservation and Planning are huge fields which need non-registrants to fill positions, so non-registrants have a right to the title of 'architect', like they do in other nations, because that's what they/we are.
Shaw
Jun 27, 18 10:51 am
This should be an easy problem to solve - graduates of accredited architectural programs should be known as 'Architects'. Students of architecture (1st-5th year, or Graduate/PhD level) should be known as 'architects', for easy of reference and uniformity across the board.....
Those who go on to become licensed should be known as 'Licensed Architects'....'Registered Architects'.
Non Sequitur
Jun 27, 18 12:21 pm
That's just plain dumb. Want the title? Pass your exams. Anything less, just call yourself a designer or whatever.
Shaw
Jun 27, 18 1:00 pm
What is the title:
of a person who works in an Accounting Office reconciling accounts?
kjdt
Jun 27, 18 1:03 pm
Funny, I recently had a discussion about that with an accountant in my office. He said most of the people that the general public refer to as "accountants" are not actually certified and licensed and so should properly be referred to as "bookkeepers", not "accountants". (He is the only credentialed accountant in our Accounting Department of four people).
Non Sequitur
Jun 27, 18 1:11 pm
Damn millennials... it's easier to whine and complain on fluffy feel good things like "titles" instead of working and passing the required exams. Passing a glorified art school program is not sufficient to call yourself architect.
Shaw
Jun 27, 18 1:30 pm
Not so, Master Secretary!
Volunteer
Jun 27, 18 11:39 am
Students who finish medical school (and before their internships) put MD after their name and are referred to as "Doctor".
The architects nomenclature practice is basically clinically insane.
Shaw
Jun 27, 18 12:00 pm
Indeed, I couldn't agree more, Volunteer! It's a real muddle. NCARB and the AIA have a real deathgrip on all non-registrants - and it's intentional....in order to force all non-registrants to become licensed, thereby limiting competition for projects within the profession itself, while also continuing the stream of funding for maintaining the regulatory bureaucracy of the profession. I do believe that there is a real concern for the health, safety, and welfare of the public, but I also believe that this self-same concern is the front-man for the unspoken and stealthy gatekeeper. Even licensed architects squabble and fight all the time among themselves about competition, and are ever keeping their eyes open for any sign or twitch of anything that even looks like it might be competition...........yes, it is insane! No wonder the profession is in trouble - there is no real esprit d' corps.
Non Sequitur
Jun 27, 18 12:23 pm
But medical school is actually difficult, where architecture is not. Comparing doctors to architects is not a valid argument.
Shaw
Jun 27, 18 12:52 pm
Thanks Non-Sequitur; the principal is the same - it should be the same for engineers also. Of course, each professional field must determine their course. I've known many physicians who have commented that architecture was much more difficult than med-school.
kjdt
Jun 27, 18 12:54 pm
NCARB is in favor of the terms "architectural associate" or "professional designer" for unlicensed people, and the AIA issued a position paper about two years ago supporting both of those. But, most states immediately nixed the use of "architectural associate" by anyone unlicensed, because of the use of a word related to "architect", and some states also nixed "professional designer" (see example reasoning on NY's licensing site). There were only four states that would commit to stating they did not have a problem with one or both of those titles. NCARB and AIA are not the gatekeepers on this - the individual state boards are.
Non Sequitur
Jun 27, 18 1:12 pm
Shaw I sincerely doubt that but if true, it's far more likely that those doctors / med students were just trying not to hurt your feelings knowing you / we spend far too much time in school than is necessary.
Shaw
Jun 27, 18 1:58 pm
I suppose that is probable, Non Sequitur.....it really seemed spoken in earnest. As you shared previously, it's not a fair comparison of professions.
Shaw
Jun 27, 18 12:45 pm
In effect, what NCARB and the AIA have done is on this wise:
Any student of architecture, graduate of an accredited architectural program, or 'non-registrant' - cannot, may not, and should not refer to themselves as an 'architect' according to the NCARB model law and practically all of the registration laws in each of the 50 states of these United States. That title is reserved only for those souls who have naturally matriculated a degree from an accredited architectural program, completed their IDP training, and passed all sections of the A.R.E. - and who have paid all of their fees to NCARB for maintaining their license, including paying for continuing education costs, etc. It's an expensive piece of paper! And extremely difficult to obtain. Anyone who makes it to the top of Mount Everest deserves the heartiest of congratulations and support.
But what about those hardy souls who didn't make it to the top - for many diverse and sundry reasons - or who maybe figured out that licensure wasn't really what they wanted out of the profession of architecture.....that, they were more interested in working in the allied fields of historic preservation, academia, sustainability, art, set design, planning, or architectural illustration? Are these individuals no less 'architects' than our licensed friends? And, suppose that non-registrants are involved in a community effort with the AIA, or perhaps another group, and the local reporter comes around to do a story, take a photo (of the unlicensed participants) with the caption, "Local Architects Making a Difference", even when the unlicensed participants told the reporter, " I'm not licensed". A week later the unlicensed participants receive a certified letter in the mail, notifying them that they are charged with an 'alleged violation' of the state registration law by referring to themselves as 'architects'. To compound the problem, when clients visit the office, and the firm principal introduces the very same non-registrants as 'architects' - clearly this is a hypocritical double-standard of the highest order.The young unlicensed interns (sorry) are trapped and must play along with the little game in order to survive.
OneLostArchitect
Jun 27, 18 12:51 pm
The Gopher
Volunteer
Jun 27, 18 1:06 pm
The architectural establishment is the one behind the state laws. To hide behind the state laws and not work to get them changed is risible.
kjdt
Jun 27, 18 1:13 pm
Many AIA chapters have been to the state boards specifically to address this issue. Have you asked your local chapter to pursue this with your state? What was the outcome? I know that it was pursued with my state - the board was just non-committal, citing difficulties with changing statutes, multi-year timelines for that, etc. - and wanting to wait for other states to adopt the new titles.
Non Sequitur
Jun 27, 18 1:15 pm
Here's an idea... instead of arguing pointlessly about receipt of title upon not failing art school, how about that energy is spent revising the intern and exam requirements in order to allow more folks to take and pass the exams?
kjdt
Jun 27, 18 1:18 pm
How much more revising does that need? They've already cut IDP/AXP requirements in half, cut the number of tests from 9 to 5, and let some schools build testing into the degree program to graduate instant architects. Again the impediment to some of these measures has been states - not NCARB or AIA. The median time from graduation to license is 2 years shorter than it was a decade ago (5.5 vs. 7.5 years).
Non Sequitur
Jun 27, 18 1:20 pm
I guess it's not enough for the lazy and loud disgruntled interns. Maybe they should rebrand their $200k art degrees into something shinier to appease their damaged self-esteem.
kjdt
Jun 27, 18 1:22 pm
I agree with you there. I think it's the same set of kids whose moms did their homework all through high school and wrote their college application essays.
Shaw
Jun 27, 18 1:25 pm
The state board is all about the NCARB model law, and total conformity to it. Comme ci, comme ca. Our state board is a follower, and won't do anything that really solves problems like this one. I think there is such a culture of fear and paranoia among the ranks that this subject never surfaces. In other words, the state board is fully on the side of keeping 'interns' interns (sorry again).
Shaw
Jun 27, 18 1:26 pm
Volunteer, you said it.
kjdt
Jun 27, 18 1:33 pm
But NCARB has retired the term "intern". NCARB is specifically in favor of the term "architectural associate" - that's what's in NCARB's current model laws. I get that it's not "architect" - but it's a lot closer. It's not NCARB or AIA that have the hangup with all terms that use words related to "architect" - they're both advocating FOR "architectural associate". It's the boards that are not adopting it.
Shaw
Jun 27, 18 2:10 pm
Interesting, kjdt. I still feel - based upon what I have had to endure for 35 years - that I still have a target on my back. I told someone once that even if I took my diploma and all of the documentation which declared that I earned a degree in architecture and attested to my career in architecture, and burned everything publicly in a 55-gallon drum outside of the state board of architects office, the target would still be on my back because of how OTHERS refer to me - which is my biggest problem. I just want that aspect removed from my life, and enjoy the work that I do without ever having to think about someone calling the 'hotline' or sending an electronic complaint to the board about me. I support licensure, and stand behind the registration law for those who've earned it. I also do not wish to 'score' off of being able to be known as an 'architect' (unlicensed) by taking business away from others who are. But at the same time, if I can do work for downtown revitalization, historic preservation, etc., as an 'architect' without worry, that would be grand.
Shaw
Jun 27, 18 5:23 pm
Thanks RickB-Astoria, but the problem is still there with how others refer to me - as 'architect' (I had an earlier post about a burning in a 55-gallon drum that explains better my dilemma) but no I so
appreciate your kind thoughts and counsel.
Shaw
Jun 27, 18 5:37 pm
It's good to know this....you have obviously had much insight and experience in this. Truly appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experience. Everyone on the blog has been so great - it is a very frustrating dilemma in this profession which we all obviously love or we wouldn't do it. I can see now that the profession itself has taken some unfair hits, but that still doesn't excuse it from exercising good judgement, fairness, and promoting reasonable and best practices.
Fivescore
Jun 27, 18 6:50 pm
I wouldn't put too much stock in Rick's advice about this. He's evidence of what you're saying yourself, that by using the wrong titles one is making themselves a target. Most state boards really don't investigate that many people, yet Rick has described being reported and investigated at least once each in two different states. If it was that easy for an unlicensed person to just go about their business and use whatever title they like, then he wouldn't even have his stories to tell.
What is the appropriate job title if you're a graduate of an architecture program? In my case, I have a Bachelors and I haven't done a (professional) M. Arch yet. When I was in college, I worked at different offices and was considered either an intern/ architectural assistant. What do I call myself now? Does it matter? When looking for jobs in between undergrad and masters, does one look for "internships" or "full time employment"?
Your title doesn't really matter I think but as far as I know you have to have about 2-3 years of experience to apply to Junior Designer/Junior Architect positions.
examining your questions.
-The most accurate title we can use until we are licensed is either Architect Intern or Intern Architect.
Though within a company they will give you an official company title like you said architects assistant, or some variation of that.
Does it matter?
It matters, to the bureaucrats, and lawyers waiting to sue us for any reason.
When looking for jobs ... undergrad and masters?
do you have a 4 year degree? because a 5 year degree is a professional degree considered equivalent to a masters.
the answer is when you look for a job you will find a lot more positions available to interns for summer time, which can be something good for someone with a 4 year bachelors degree, If you have a 5 year professional degree or a masters i advise you go get a full time job asap.
NCARB does provide a path to licensure for people with a 4 year degree too.
good luck bets
Fluffer
Thanks guys.
@LiveLoad - I have 4 years degree. It's not professional, sadly, (I would totally have gone for a 5 years professional degree and be done with school if I had been more informed when I applied to undergrad programs.) I have over 2 years of experience as an intern though, not sure if that counts for anything in the job market these days. I'm basically trying to pay off some of my loans before beginning masters and accruing more debt, so I plan to work for at least one or two years between my degrees.
Assistant project manager.
intern's assistant
Hmm if you don't have a professional degree maybe the "junior architect" title may not be right for you..I live in NY and in here you can still get licensed with a 4 year non-professional degree (which I have) but I have a feeling they prefer 5 year degree holders to 4 year ones..
I guess this is the only profession where you get to be called an intern until you get licensed but at the same time technically you shouldn't be an "intern" after 2 years of experience because as we know when you intern for a firm,during your internship the firm shouldn't be able to make money on you otherwise it is called slavery and I believe even after 6 months of professional experience,with your skillset and knowledge you CAN make a firm make money therefore you shouldn't still be an intern imho.
Ya know project manager sounds hella sexy too you should try that! And it doesn't require a 5 year degree. :p
Its funny, I had to take 1 year off in college, and it took me 5 years to get regular 4 year degree, but now most places that I apply to think I have a 5 year degree, I just keep quiet and don't even explain to them that its just a regular 4 year bachelor's of science in arch... hehehhe
Actually it also took me 5 years to get it because I couldn't deal with 16 credits per semester..good idea zen. ;)
I prefer "Minion," but I also go by Flunky, Yes-person, Lackey, Expendable, Stooge, Toady, or Indentured Servant.
I worked somewhere where the term appeared to be ‘resources’, I also watched a documentary recently about a British army team attempting the north face of Everest whom referred to their Sherpa betters by the same term. The army team failed to summit.
Most large firms use a titles like "Arch I" for those who are unlicensed.
Not to get too picky here but some states don't allow you to use "architect" as either a prefix or suffix in a job title.
I'd suggest checking with your state board to see if they have any special rules. I think using "Intern" in any title is inappropriate once you've graduated from college.
totally agree with you marlow,
about the word intern, it especially feels strange when you realize you know more about how a building gets built than your boss a 20 to 30 year man that was so strange, when it first happened to me, we leave college with the highest hopes that we will work for a leibermeister and look what happens, its a desert out there these days. No Leibermeisters in site.
I guess "resident cad monkey" always applies.
@Parad0xx86 - didn't know you could get licensed with a 4 year degree in NY. I'm actually planning on moving there. I had interned in NYC (actual college internship, not "intern architect") and absolutely fell in love with the city, yup I'm one of those, so now that the economy's supposed to be picking up (so they say... hey, it doesn't hurt to look on the bright side does it?), I'd like to go back. That would be seriously awesome though - who needs to fork out more cash for a masters and go through some more insane studio deadlines when you could get licensed and start slaving away as a real architect, right?
what to put on your resume: the one that describes best what role you want to take
ads to answer: those that describe best the role you want to take
there is no correct. firms will pick the words that they think best describes the work they expect from a new hire. if they're even being that thoughtful about the job listing.
i'd suggest not getting too hung up on the words if you're just looking for any entry level position. interpret liberally...
§ 7306. Exempt persons-
"Employment of any person as a junior or assistant architect by the City of New York in a position the title of which was approved and in use as of July first, nineteen hundred seventy-one, provided such person acts under the general direction of a licensed architect."
http://www.op.nysed.gov/prof/arch/article147.htm#pract
whats better? housewife or domestic engineer? because they both pay the same.
Excluding all of the confusion, complicated arguments, and fuss coming from the AIA and NCARB - and placing one's self in the following cities as someone 'on the street' or in a local cafe/Starbucks:
New York London Moscow Nairobi Calcutta Beijing Sydney Lima
Ask the following question of a number of citizens-people you may meet:
What do you call someone who has earned a professional-terminal degree from a school/college of architecture?
The answer will almost always be 'Architect'. And it will never be answered differently, no matter what the AIA or NCARB says about educating people about the profession. This is something which is so anthropologically engrained into every human being, it will never change.
Granted I'm not in any of the cities on your list, but I just tried this on the people at the sidewalk cafe across the street from my office. I asked 6 people, none of whom heard me ask the others, or heard their responses. I got: one "Architect", two "Apprentice", two "Designer", two "Architectural Designer", and one "Trainee Architect". Maybe others can try and report on their results.
Interesting; in my experience, nearly 100% of the greater public says 'Architect' when they hear that I have a degree in the same. It's amazing - especially when dealing with the media. Thanks for sharing kjdt!
not this dead horse beating spectacle again...
I have no idea what the situation is in the various international cities you mentioned, but I think there's some general awareness in the US that in most professions the terminal title isn't bestowed immediately upon graduation (medical professions being exceptions). More people are probably familiar with engineers than with architects, and engineers typically go through the EIT stage, so a lot of the public probably assumes the same about architects. I also let the people I asked guess multiple titles if they wanted to, and they may have guessed just from my asking the question in the first place that the answer might not be as simple as "architect".
Some people are not able to become licensed for the rest of their lives, thanks to the new and improved NCARB. Licensure is not for everyone - that's the main point. Schools of architecture are geared toward licensure exclusively, and the truth is that not everyone is geared for professional practice. There are many other areas of participation, and even the federal government lists jobs as 'Architect' which do not require registration. Historic Preservation and Planning are huge fields which need non-registrants to fill positions, so non-registrants have a right to the title of 'architect', like they do in other nations, because that's what they/we are.
This should be an easy problem to solve - graduates of accredited architectural programs should be known as 'Architects'. Students of architecture (1st-5th year, or Graduate/PhD level) should be known as 'architects', for easy of reference and uniformity across the board.....
Those who go on to become licensed should be known as 'Licensed Architects'....'Registered Architects'.
That's just plain dumb. Want the title? Pass your exams. Anything less, just call yourself a designer or whatever.
What is the title: of a person who works in an Accounting Office reconciling accounts?
Funny, I recently had a discussion about that with an accountant in my office. He said most of the people that the general public refer to as "accountants" are not actually certified and licensed and so should properly be referred to as "bookkeepers", not "accountants". (He is the only credentialed accountant in our Accounting Department of four people).
Damn millennials... it's easier to whine and complain on fluffy feel good things like "titles" instead of working and passing the required exams. Passing a glorified art school program is not sufficient to call yourself architect.
Not so, Master Secretary!
Students who finish medical school (and before their internships) put MD after their name and are referred to as "Doctor".
The architects nomenclature practice is basically clinically insane.
Indeed, I couldn't agree more, Volunteer! It's a real muddle. NCARB and the AIA have a real deathgrip on all non-registrants - and it's intentional....in order to force all non-registrants to become licensed, thereby limiting competition for projects within the profession itself, while also continuing the stream of funding for maintaining the regulatory bureaucracy of the profession. I do believe that there is a real concern for the health, safety, and welfare of the public, but I also believe that this self-same concern is the front-man for the unspoken and stealthy gatekeeper. Even licensed architects squabble and fight all the time among themselves about competition, and are ever keeping their eyes open for any sign or twitch of anything that even looks like it might be competition...........yes, it is insane! No wonder the profession is in trouble - there is no real esprit d' corps.
But medical school is actually difficult, where architecture is not. Comparing doctors to architects is not a valid argument.
Thanks Non-Sequitur; the principal is the same - it should be the same for engineers also. Of course, each professional field must determine their course. I've known many physicians who have commented that architecture was much more difficult than med-school.
NCARB is in favor of the terms "architectural associate" or "professional designer" for unlicensed people, and the AIA issued a position paper about two years ago supporting both of those. But, most states immediately nixed the use of "architectural associate" by anyone unlicensed, because of the use of a word related to "architect", and some states also nixed "professional designer" (see example reasoning on NY's licensing site). There were only four states that would commit to stating they did not have a problem with one or both of those titles. NCARB and AIA are not the gatekeepers on this - the individual state boards are.
Shaw I sincerely doubt that but if true, it's far more likely that those doctors / med students were just trying not to hurt your feelings knowing you / we spend far too much time in school than is necessary.
I suppose that is probable, Non Sequitur.....it really seemed spoken in earnest. As you shared previously, it's not a fair comparison of professions.
In effect, what NCARB and the AIA have done is on this wise:
Any student of architecture, graduate of an accredited architectural program, or 'non-registrant' - cannot, may not, and should not refer to themselves as an 'architect' according to the NCARB model law and practically all of the registration laws in each of the 50 states of these United States. That title is reserved only for those souls who have naturally matriculated a degree from an accredited architectural program, completed their IDP training, and passed all sections of the A.R.E. - and who have paid all of their fees to NCARB for maintaining their license, including paying for continuing education costs, etc. It's an expensive piece of paper! And extremely difficult to obtain. Anyone who makes it to the top of Mount Everest deserves the heartiest of congratulations and support.
But what about those hardy souls who didn't make it to the top - for many diverse and sundry reasons - or who maybe figured out that licensure wasn't really what they wanted out of the profession of architecture.....that, they were more interested in working in the allied fields of historic preservation, academia, sustainability, art, set design, planning, or architectural illustration? Are these individuals no less 'architects' than our licensed friends? And, suppose that non-registrants are involved in a community effort with the AIA, or perhaps another group, and the local reporter comes around to do a story, take a photo (of the unlicensed participants) with the caption, "Local Architects Making a Difference", even when the unlicensed participants told the reporter, " I'm not licensed". A week later the unlicensed participants receive a certified letter in the mail, notifying them that they are charged with an 'alleged violation' of the state registration law by referring to themselves as 'architects'. To compound the problem, when clients visit the office, and the firm principal introduces the very same non-registrants as 'architects' - clearly this is a hypocritical double-standard of the highest order.The young unlicensed interns (sorry) are trapped and must play along with the little game in order to survive.
The Gopher
The architectural establishment is the one behind the state laws. To hide behind the state laws and not work to get them changed is risible.
Many AIA chapters have been to the state boards specifically to address this issue. Have you asked your local chapter to pursue this with your state? What was the outcome? I know that it was pursued with my state - the board was just non-committal, citing difficulties with changing statutes, multi-year timelines for that, etc. - and wanting to wait for other states to adopt the new titles.
Here's an idea... instead of arguing pointlessly about receipt of title upon not failing art school, how about that energy is spent revising the intern and exam requirements in order to allow more folks to take and pass the exams?
How much more revising does that need? They've already cut IDP/AXP requirements in half, cut the number of tests from 9 to 5, and let some schools build testing into the degree program to graduate instant architects. Again the impediment to some of these measures has been states - not NCARB or AIA. The median time from graduation to license is 2 years shorter than it was a decade ago (5.5 vs. 7.5 years).
I guess it's not enough for the lazy and loud disgruntled interns. Maybe they should rebrand their $200k art degrees into something shinier to appease their damaged self-esteem.
I agree with you there. I think it's the same set of kids whose moms did their homework all through high school and wrote their college application essays.
The state board is all about the NCARB model law, and total conformity to it. Comme ci, comme ca. Our state board is a follower, and won't do anything that really solves problems like this one. I think there is such a culture of fear and paranoia among the ranks that this subject never surfaces. In other words, the state board is fully on the side of keeping 'interns' interns (sorry again).
Volunteer, you said it.
But NCARB has retired the term "intern". NCARB is specifically in favor of the term "architectural associate" - that's what's in NCARB's current model laws. I get that it's not "architect" - but it's a lot closer. It's not NCARB or AIA that have the hangup with all terms that use words related to "architect" - they're both advocating FOR "architectural associate". It's the boards that are not adopting it.
Interesting, kjdt. I still feel - based upon what I have had to endure for 35 years - that I still have a target on my back. I told someone once that even if I took my diploma and all of the documentation which declared that I earned a degree in architecture and attested to my career in architecture, and burned everything publicly in a 55-gallon drum outside of the state board of architects office, the target would still be on my back because of how OTHERS refer to me - which is my biggest problem. I just want that aspect removed from my life, and enjoy the work that I do without ever having to think about someone calling the 'hotline' or sending an electronic complaint to the board about me. I support licensure, and stand behind the registration law for those who've earned it. I also do not wish to 'score' off of being able to be known as an 'architect' (unlicensed) by taking business away from others who are. But at the same time, if I can do work for downtown revitalization, historic preservation, etc., as an 'architect' without worry, that would be grand.
Thanks RickB-Astoria, but the problem is still there with how others refer to me - as 'architect' (I had an earlier post about a burning in a 55-gallon drum that explains better my dilemma) but no I so appreciate your kind thoughts and counsel.
It's good to know this....you have obviously had much insight and experience in this. Truly appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experience. Everyone on the blog has been so great - it is a very frustrating dilemma in this profession which we all obviously love or we wouldn't do it. I can see now that the profession itself has taken some unfair hits, but that still doesn't excuse it from exercising good judgement, fairness, and promoting reasonable and best practices.
I wouldn't put too much stock in Rick's advice about this. He's evidence of what you're saying yourself, that by using the wrong titles one is making themselves a target. Most state boards really don't investigate that many people, yet Rick has described being reported and investigated at least once each in two different states. If it was that easy for an unlicensed person to just go about their business and use whatever title they like, then he wouldn't even have his stories to tell.
Rookie, comes to mind.