With all the postings of the DI rankings, The Cramer Report, Dr.Garry's whatever list, all in the effort to find out what is the BEST architecture school OR the best architecture schoolS out there, I bring you a different post. Possibly, the first of it's kind.
WHAT IS THE WORST ARCHITECTURE SCHOOL (or schools) IN THE US!
It would be nice to base all of this on fact, and be subjective about it, rather than say something like, "Princeton is the worst because they rejected me!" or "Notre Dame sucks because they live in the past". Let's base everything on facts or what we know to be true.
So let the hating begin
SCHOOL: ___________________
DID I ATTEND THERE: ________________
WOULD I ATTEND, EVEN IF THEY PAID ME: ____________
WHY DO THEY SUCK: _______________
randomized
May 5, 10 8:34 am
How can you be subjective and base it on facts at the same time?
Would be interesting to see where all the unemployed architects have studied and where the happily employed architects have attended.
FrankLloydMike
May 5, 10 11:06 am
right on, randomized. I'd figure out the difference between subjectivity and objectivity before asking people to bitch about their schools.
med.
May 5, 10 11:23 am
I've been trying to tell people this for years: It really doesn't matter where you got your training! Even if it's the "worst" school you'll still be working and sitting by a person who went to the "best" school. And in all likelihood, you'll be making the same amount of money!
Our profession doesn't really work like the law profession where school rankings, class ranking, and all of that other stuff matters.
As long as a school is accredited by the NAAB, you are in the same standing as everyone else in the quest to become an architect.
At my large global corporate firm, there are five head designers -- some went to ivies, and most of them went to regular state schools.
tagalong
May 5, 10 11:45 am
Sorry med. but I simply must disagree. The professors and fellow students you surround yourself with in school WILL influence your training and help shape you as an aspiring architect/designer.
I do believe that the best school for one person could be the worst school for another, I think it would behoove students to do more thorough research about was a schools agenda is and determine if it is a right fit for what they study within the field of architecture.
The post school decisions you make about where you work and your salary negotiations are a completely different subject matter, however, I think certain schools prepare you to be a leader better than others.
tagalong
May 5, 10 11:46 am
...about what* a schools agenda is and determine if it is a right fit for what they want* to study....
aquapura
May 5, 10 12:02 pm
I do believe that the best school for one person could be the worst school for another
I agree with this. You have to find the "right fit" within reason. By reason I mean, heck GSD might have been the right fit for me but the cost benefit analysis just makes zero sense. I think it's important to suck it up and go to state if it means the difference of $100k+ in debt that will saddle you for a lifetime.
about was a schools agenda is
The school's agenda is to educate you, collect tuition, and hopefully graduate someone who will earn good income and give back to the school sometime in the future. Now, professors might have personal agendas, i.e. theory or computer design, etc. I sure how that there aren't any Architecture schools with an agenda of why type of architect they want to graduate.
Our profession doesn't really work like the law profession where school rankings, class ranking, and all of that other stuff matters.
As long as a school is accredited by the NAAB, you are in the same standing as everyone else in the quest to become an architect.
Agreed completely. Get your degree and work for a decade plus and you will be enough removed to realize that where you went makes little difference. What matters is your professional career and what you do with that.
Cherith Cutestory
May 5, 10 12:19 pm
repeat after me:
I am not my career.
Architecture is not my life.
There is more to me than my job.
Doesn't that feel better?
Alexi
May 5, 10 12:40 pm
...no.
It's more like this:
I define my passions and actions,
I am defined by my passions and my actions,
Architecture is what I do,
I am defined by architecture.
Alexi
May 5, 10 12:42 pm
it's symbiotic man
tuna
May 5, 10 12:48 pm
you get what you pay for
Distant Unicorn
May 5, 10 1:48 pm
Being passionate doesn't always equate to being good. You could have a completely wise ass prodigious slob who does nothing 95% of the time ... versus a passionate, active but incompetent individual.
If the lazy slob is a prodigy, he'll do more in that 5% than a passionate individual will do in a 110%.
Agree with the above-- class ranking means nothing in art school. Architecture is about 80% humanities and arts and about 20% engineering principles.
That's what the ARE basically is. An engineering exam to make sure you know how to build something safe and sound.
The art behind architecture takes people well-versed in life who live their lives. And that's really a big thing here with architecture, we have a lot of nerds and passionate people in architecture who've never seen the outside of a studio or office.
We have architects who make value judgments based on ornamentation and decorations... but have never taken a humanities class past Western Civ II.
We have architects who talk about aesthetics and color theory but have never actually taken a real art class taught by a real art professor.
Distant Unicorn
May 5, 10 1:49 pm
I really hate the 1980s for this whole "passion" crap.
Distant Unicorn
May 5, 10 1:51 pm
TRIPLE POST!
Forgot to put a point on this. I would say the worst architectural schools are the ones that are the most specialized with the narrowest focuses of education.
syp
May 5, 10 5:16 pm
'however, I think certain schools prepare you to be a leader better than others.'
Actually, certain schools prepare a student to be a FOLLOWER better than others, but most of those students pretend a "prodigy" or "leader".
tuna
May 6, 10 1:45 am
awh the followers........the blind leading the blind.
myOtherFakeName
May 6, 10 8:12 am
While it will remain nameless..... I went to a really awful school for undergrad. But this forced me to learn to be proactive and find a way to make things interesting..... that and I can usually win the "worst studio brief ever" competitions that sometimes come up over beers
but then I got into a really good school and it all worked out.
That's why the world works on portfolios.
Cherith Cutestory
May 6, 10 11:03 am
I thought the world worked on coffee?
Sounder
May 6, 10 2:25 pm
Mine does! Speaking of which, I'm due for another dosage...
w4000
May 7, 10 11:18 am
whatever I went to a decent school, and i work with people people that went to ivy's. They are all proud of it, and always being up "while I was at (insert ivy name), blah blah blah.
Yet, they have been on the job a year longer than me and come to ask me questions.
After a couple years on the job it doesnt matter what school you went to. It might get you get the first interview/job but after that, its experience that counts
tuna
May 7, 10 5:28 pm
@ w4000 - you should tell them that "my school can kick your school butt any time of the week!" and then tell them the same thing that Charlie Murphy said when he portrayed Rick James "What Did the 5 Fingers Say to the Face?"
jakethesnake
May 7, 10 5:30 pm
SLAP!
420g
May 8, 16 2:39 pm
the University of Toronto has a terrible architecture program, its all architecture/art history/theory with graphic-design design-studios. no building science or design studios with architectural projects.
their undergrad is not a "pre-professional" degree in architecture
local architects know to ignore the big name or the school also
sorry i know this school not in US but Canada
no_form
May 8, 16 3:39 pm
Imo the worst schools are the ones that are full of stubborn professors that think their glory days were the best days for the profession and for architecture as a discipline.
Most schools have a few professors like this. Just avoid them if you can and be assertive.
BulgarBlogger
May 8, 16 4:50 pm
RISD- terrible program
Just-_-sentinel
May 10, 16 4:10 pm
SCHOOL: Cornell DID I ATTEND THERE: No WOULD I ATTEND, EVEN IF THEY PAID ME: No
WHY DO THEY SUCK: They're Ivy League for one, so if you're into that political stuff..... Secondly, the city of Ithaca has no intent of employing their graduating class or even trying to develop an AEC industry that can handle all those brilliant NCARB accredited graduates. Cornell grads are basically orphaned architects, like CMU.
Exact same goes for Carnegie Mellon and Pittsburgh- all my classmates needed to scatter after graduation. Not enough arch jobs in Pittsburgh, lots of talented graduates. Personally, I love Pittsburgh, but its an engineer dominated city.
Buffalo as well, University of Buffalo cranks out a graduating class, not accredited but the amount of opportunities for them post graduation is dismal.
New York City is the closest market for hope or Philadelphia. Same can be said for their academic institutions, but at least New York seems to keep the door revolving. Other cities just shut their doors completely.
gruen
May 12, 16 8:46 pm
Your school = terrible
My school = da best
BR.TN
May 13, 16 12:37 pm
"They're Ivy League for one, so if you're into that stuff" - yep, I respect those academic environments greatly
"the city of Ithaca has no intent of employing their graduating class or even trying to develop an AEC industry" - I forgot how economically powerful Cambridge, Ann Arbor, and New Haven are......
"all my classmates needed to scatter after graduation" - sorry that you wanted to live in Pittsburgh or Ithaca your whole life...
"New York City is the closest market for hope" - oh no, how oppressive! Stay away from the greatest architectural market in the world!
Cornell is #2 with their M.Arch and #1 in their B.Arch. If you go there, you'll practically be RECRUITED for a job in whatever city you'd like. Cornell was the alma mater of both my university's Dean as well as the chairman of my 250-person firm who is #36 in the nation for revenue, so two of the most knowledgeable professionals that I know.
With all the postings of the DI rankings, The Cramer Report, Dr.Garry's whatever list, all in the effort to find out what is the BEST architecture school OR the best architecture schoolS out there, I bring you a different post. Possibly, the first of it's kind.
WHAT IS THE WORST ARCHITECTURE SCHOOL (or schools) IN THE US!
It would be nice to base all of this on fact, and be subjective about it, rather than say something like, "Princeton is the worst because they rejected me!" or "Notre Dame sucks because they live in the past". Let's base everything on facts or what we know to be true.
So let the hating begin
SCHOOL: ___________________
DID I ATTEND THERE: ________________
WOULD I ATTEND, EVEN IF THEY PAID ME: ____________
WHY DO THEY SUCK: _______________
How can you be subjective and base it on facts at the same time?
Would be interesting to see where all the unemployed architects have studied and where the happily employed architects have attended.
right on, randomized. I'd figure out the difference between subjectivity and objectivity before asking people to bitch about their schools.
I've been trying to tell people this for years: It really doesn't matter where you got your training! Even if it's the "worst" school you'll still be working and sitting by a person who went to the "best" school. And in all likelihood, you'll be making the same amount of money!
Our profession doesn't really work like the law profession where school rankings, class ranking, and all of that other stuff matters.
As long as a school is accredited by the NAAB, you are in the same standing as everyone else in the quest to become an architect.
At my large global corporate firm, there are five head designers -- some went to ivies, and most of them went to regular state schools.
Sorry med. but I simply must disagree. The professors and fellow students you surround yourself with in school WILL influence your training and help shape you as an aspiring architect/designer.
I do believe that the best school for one person could be the worst school for another, I think it would behoove students to do more thorough research about was a schools agenda is and determine if it is a right fit for what they study within the field of architecture.
The post school decisions you make about where you work and your salary negotiations are a completely different subject matter, however, I think certain schools prepare you to be a leader better than others.
...about what* a schools agenda is and determine if it is a right fit for what they want* to study....
I agree with this. You have to find the "right fit" within reason. By reason I mean, heck GSD might have been the right fit for me but the cost benefit analysis just makes zero sense. I think it's important to suck it up and go to state if it means the difference of $100k+ in debt that will saddle you for a lifetime.
about was a schools agenda is
The school's agenda is to educate you, collect tuition, and hopefully graduate someone who will earn good income and give back to the school sometime in the future. Now, professors might have personal agendas, i.e. theory or computer design, etc. I sure how that there aren't any Architecture schools with an agenda of why type of architect they want to graduate.
Our profession doesn't really work like the law profession where school rankings, class ranking, and all of that other stuff matters.
As long as a school is accredited by the NAAB, you are in the same standing as everyone else in the quest to become an architect.
Agreed completely. Get your degree and work for a decade plus and you will be enough removed to realize that where you went makes little difference. What matters is your professional career and what you do with that.
repeat after me:
I am not my career.
Architecture is not my life.
There is more to me than my job.
Doesn't that feel better?
...no.
It's more like this:
I define my passions and actions,
I am defined by my passions and my actions,
Architecture is what I do,
I am defined by architecture.
it's symbiotic man
you get what you pay for
Being passionate doesn't always equate to being good. You could have a completely wise ass prodigious slob who does nothing 95% of the time ... versus a passionate, active but incompetent individual.
If the lazy slob is a prodigy, he'll do more in that 5% than a passionate individual will do in a 110%.
Agree with the above-- class ranking means nothing in art school. Architecture is about 80% humanities and arts and about 20% engineering principles.
That's what the ARE basically is. An engineering exam to make sure you know how to build something safe and sound.
The art behind architecture takes people well-versed in life who live their lives. And that's really a big thing here with architecture, we have a lot of nerds and passionate people in architecture who've never seen the outside of a studio or office.
We have architects who make value judgments based on ornamentation and decorations... but have never taken a humanities class past Western Civ II.
We have architects who talk about aesthetics and color theory but have never actually taken a real art class taught by a real art professor.
I really hate the 1980s for this whole "passion" crap.
TRIPLE POST!
Forgot to put a point on this. I would say the worst architectural schools are the ones that are the most specialized with the narrowest focuses of education.
'however, I think certain schools prepare you to be a leader better than others.'
Actually, certain schools prepare a student to be a FOLLOWER better than others, but most of those students pretend a "prodigy" or "leader".
awh the followers........the blind leading the blind.
While it will remain nameless..... I went to a really awful school for undergrad. But this forced me to learn to be proactive and find a way to make things interesting..... that and I can usually win the "worst studio brief ever" competitions that sometimes come up over beers
but then I got into a really good school and it all worked out.
That's why the world works on portfolios.
I thought the world worked on coffee?
Mine does! Speaking of which, I'm due for another dosage...
whatever I went to a decent school, and i work with people people that went to ivy's. They are all proud of it, and always being up "while I was at (insert ivy name), blah blah blah.
Yet, they have been on the job a year longer than me and come to ask me questions.
After a couple years on the job it doesnt matter what school you went to. It might get you get the first interview/job but after that, its experience that counts
@ w4000 - you should tell them that "my school can kick your school butt any time of the week!" and then tell them the same thing that Charlie Murphy said when he portrayed Rick James "What Did the 5 Fingers Say to the Face?"
SLAP!
the University of Toronto has a terrible architecture program, its all architecture/art history/theory with graphic-design design-studios. no building science or design studios with architectural projects.
their undergrad is not a "pre-professional" degree in architecture
local architects know to ignore the big name or the school also
sorry i know this school not in US but Canada
Imo the worst schools are the ones that are full of stubborn professors that think their glory days were the best days for the profession and for architecture as a discipline.
Most schools have a few professors like this. Just avoid them if you can and be assertive.
RISD- terrible program
SCHOOL: Cornell
DID I ATTEND THERE: No
WOULD I ATTEND, EVEN IF THEY PAID ME: No
WHY DO THEY SUCK: They're Ivy League for one, so if you're into that political stuff..... Secondly, the city of Ithaca has no intent of employing their graduating class or even trying to develop an AEC industry that can handle all those brilliant NCARB accredited graduates. Cornell grads are basically orphaned architects, like CMU.
Exact same goes for Carnegie Mellon and Pittsburgh- all my classmates needed to scatter after graduation. Not enough arch jobs in Pittsburgh, lots of talented graduates. Personally, I love Pittsburgh, but its an engineer dominated city.
Buffalo as well, University of Buffalo cranks out a graduating class, not accredited but the amount of opportunities for them post graduation is dismal.
New York City is the closest market for hope or Philadelphia. Same can be said for their academic institutions, but at least New York seems to keep the door revolving. Other cities just shut their doors completely.
Your school = terrible
My school = da best
"They're Ivy League for one, so if you're into that stuff" - yep, I respect those academic environments greatly
"the city of Ithaca has no intent of employing their graduating class or even trying to develop an AEC industry" - I forgot how economically powerful Cambridge, Ann Arbor, and New Haven are......
"all my classmates needed to scatter after graduation" - sorry that you wanted to live in Pittsburgh or Ithaca your whole life...
"New York City is the closest market for hope" - oh no, how oppressive! Stay away from the greatest architectural market in the world!
Cornell is #2 with their M.Arch and #1 in their B.Arch. If you go there, you'll practically be RECRUITED for a job in whatever city you'd like. Cornell was the alma mater of both my university's Dean as well as the chairman of my 250-person firm who is #36 in the nation for revenue, so two of the most knowledgeable professionals that I know.
Trolling? If you paid me to go there...........
^ see gruen