I'm interested in what people think about a small table saw to aid in model making.
This link is to a $40 table saw that is 7-6/8" x 5-5/8" x 6-1/2" which is incredibly small and amazingly cheap. I was wondering if people have had experience with this kind of thing or other similar suggestions.
arch - congrats on taking these kinds of matters into your own hands. seriously, there aren't that many students who really care.
i used an 8" dia. saw for model pieces a lot during my grad school education. never really seen one that small outside mack scogin and merrill elam's model shop maybe 8-10 years ago.
only thing i can offer, in terms of thinking about table saws, is to really consider how big/dense of pieces you might ever put in there. the 4" seems (from what i can glean from your link) really well suited if you're cutting primarily bass wood pieces, maybe no more than a 1/4" thick. after that, you'd have to start wondering if the motor has enough rpm's to really push through the wood quickly enough so that you don't burn out the motor. hence one of my reasons for going up to the 8" size - not quite as scary as a full 10", but you could push through 3/4" plywood just fine. it was also easier to set that thing up in a quasi-permanent table, making the surface area for sliding bigger pieces through (safely) easier to accomplish.
which is probably the last thing to consider - if your school has a full on 10" saw, with a great table/bed, and you can do any decent sized cuts (for a base, piece of furniture, whatever) and you're going to have this around as your small piece cutter, then it sounds like a winning setup to me. if you don't have access to a larger saw, this still may work, just be careful pushing larger stock through.
outed
Feb 6, 10 9:46 am
i should add - i never used a table saw for anything other than solid stock pieces (1/4" sheet goods or larger). i always cut anything smaller with a chopper or by hand with a razor, not only because those pieces wouldn't really work on a table saw (at that size), but because it's still hard to get super precise cuts on something that small without using a razor. make sense? now, that saw may be so little, you could line up a bunch of 1/4 x 1/4 basswood pieces and run them through just fine- i'm just trying to point out the limitations of the larger sized saw.
Justin Ather Maud
Feb 6, 10 11:08 am
Amazingly cheap is the operative phrase here. The blades on a similarly sized one we used in grad school cost almost as much. When I was a carpenter, we referred to this type of tool as a "homeowner" grade tool. i.e., weekend, light-duty use only. So if you're only going to use it for a few semesters of school, it may be worth the investment.
I would look into how easy replacement parts (the motor, especially) are to purchase/obtain.
ArchStudent221
Feb 6, 10 1:52 pm
Thanks so much for the information!
outed - really helpful, ill be in grad school next year so im not sure if ill have access to a 10" yet. do you have a recommendation for a 8" table saw?
justin - i looked at blades and they are relatively cheap supposing they last a while. ill have to look into the motor. thanks for the input!
spend the extra cash and keep it for years....they have additional blades too and i would recommend building a slide table.
NLW2
Feb 6, 10 9:48 pm
Those saws look like they'd be the shizzy for dedicated fret slotting rigs. Look at all those kerf options, it's spectacular!
A W
Feb 7, 10 3:15 am
I have the Micromark too and it's a beautiful piece of Japanese kit. It's also small and easy to transport.
ArchStudent221
Feb 7, 10 4:12 am
That microlux does look niceee, what do you mean by slide table?
A W
Feb 7, 10 4:49 am
The Micromark saw itself is maybe 15 inches square so a bigger table allows you to more easily cut longer stuff.
outed
Feb 7, 10 8:32 am
wow - if they'd had that micromark thing around when i was a youngster, i'd have certainly looked at it. that thing looks great - we may have to look into one for our studio now...
arch - i had just a typical lower end contractor grade machine - something by porter + cable. for what you're probably doing, stay away from ryobi, but a home depot type saw should be fine. also, if you have any where you live, check out a local hardware shop (independent) - they may have a buy/sell board where you could pick up a much nicer used saw for about the same money as a new one.
SDR
Feb 7, 10 6:04 pm
These are really small saws -- the Harbor Freight one is really tiny. And the bigger one has a smaller blade ! -- 3 3/4" vs 4". Max cutting depth 1" on Micromark, 3/4" on Harbor Freight. You'd want to screw or clamp these down to your table or bench. Maybe fasten the saw to a panel, which could be clamped down. . .
Ripping small pieces requires a nice tight slot in the throat-piece, for safety and quality of cut. One of the first tasks with a new saw is often to make your own throat-piece inserts, for this reason. Not an easy job, for some saws.
For $400 one should be able to get an eight-inch saw, it seems to me. Unless you're confined to working in your dorm room, I'd consider a larger saw. Why limit yourself to small and light materials only ? The right blade, smooth-operating miter gauge and tight, parallel fence, and a tight opening in your throat-pieces (a separate one for mitering, usually), and you're in business with any saw -- for even the smallest work.
le bossman
Feb 7, 10 10:12 pm
my advice on table saws from what little i know of them, is that you get what you pay for. i myself wouldn't waste $40 on a $40 table saw. if you are building scale models, then you are probably going for a high level of precision. those little ones they have are basically best at making rough cross-cuts for framing, and not little high precision components. you need something with a good fence, a pretty good size table, and a blade that holds very true.
SDR
Feb 7, 10 11:50 pm
I am presently using a Ryobi 10" table saw that I inherited. I did some cleaning and tune-up, bought a new blade, made some plywood throat pieces, and have been getting very good service from it. Lots of power, arbor runs true, has a clever sliding table instead of a traditional miter guage. The aluminum trunion and table are well designed and made.
Here is a newer model, with a folding stand -- for less money that the Micromark, and a lot more saw.
It's good to keep that in mind but you are comparing apples and oranges. The Micromark will do a better job with small pieces and is more portable. The one you cite is more flexible and is better suited to a lot more tasks.
SDR
Feb 8, 10 1:36 am
" and is better suited to a lot more tasks." -- my point exactly.
Why do you feel that the Micromark will do "a better job with small pieces" ? In my experience, what works best with miniature pieces is a smooth table and a close-fitting and perfectly flush throat-piece, and perhaps a home-made accessory fence that clamps to the proprietary one and presents a low profile, so the fingers and push-sticks (I like a sharp awl for some pieces) can get closer to the blade without interference. (Work pieces that are held down firmly will not vibrate and roughen the cut.) There is nothing about a well-made full-sized saw that is at odds with this list of requirements.
I generally recommend a 3/32" wide blade, now that they are commonly available. Less waste, less effort in cutting -- and they seem more appropriate for thinner materials. I bought an inexpensive Irwin 40-tooth rip blade that does a really nice job on all the woods I've put to it. A 60-tooth blade would be more suitable to thin stock, however.
SDR
Feb 8, 10 1:41 am
It is inevitable that the model-maker is going to want, sooner or later, to cut a 1-inch thick piece of stock. A saw with a 4-inch blade that rises no more than one inch from the table just isn't going to "cut it" -- either in HP or in blade height. A bigger tool can do both large and small work; a small tool cannot do both.
With all due respect. . .!
SDR
Feb 8, 10 1:52 am
That said, of course the ideal is for the maker to use the kinds of tools he is most experienced and most comfortable with. It is only when a new class of tool is to be purchased that some research is necessary.
montagneux
Feb 8, 10 2:03 am
Buy a table saw that has one of those safety shutoff devices.
It's only a matter of time before you cut something off.
SDR
Feb 8, 10 2:17 am
The saw that stops dead when live flesh touches the blade is fine if you can afford it. Of course, it doesn't start running again until an aluminum block buried in the blade has been removed. . .
Many of us have had table saw cuts, sadly -- but it isn't and shouldn't be thought of as inevitable. Never have your hand or fingers beyond the blade -- kickbacks that draw the hand back over the blade seem to account for the greater number of accidents. Common sense, a smooth-running operation (practiced with the blade down), and never putting yourself where you can be cut, is most of it.
Final thoughts about buying a saw: run the one you're going to buy. If there is any runout (blade wobble) AT ALL, try a different blade -- and reject the machine if there is still run-out. Try all functions (raise, and tilt, and the fence sliding and locking) to see if you are satisfied. Most functions can be improved with adjustment and/or lubrication -- but try to eliminate machines that are faulty "out of the box."
SDR
Feb 8, 10 2:22 am
(Runout shows best as the blade is coming to a stop after the motor is turned off. . .)
montagneux
Feb 8, 10 2:24 am
Yes... but unlike other shop accidents involving band saws and drill presses (both have happened to me) you can usually walk away from perfectly able'd without serious injury.
A table saw on the other hand-- like a chainsaw-- is really, really unforgiving.
binary
Feb 8, 10 3:08 am
if you have a good slide box, any table saw will work.... but if i'm working with small pieces of styrene and basswood, i use my microlux..... for a student, the microlux would be best and if large items need to be cut, then they can use the main wood shop.....
students should also be taught the correct ways of using shop tools. when i managed a university shop for 4 years, i made sure everyone knew wth they were doing on the machines. if they didn't, i would teach them or if they seemed scared, then i would make the cuts/sands/drills for them. over the 4 years, i didn't have any accidents due to proper training of my work-study and the upper classmen.
SDR
Feb 8, 10 12:26 pm
Sounds good, :/ -- thanks.
SDR
Feb 9, 10 12:29 am
There is a good way to minimize the danger of using a band saw: Keep the upper blade guide as close to the work as possible (i.e., lowered as far as possible) while still allowing the user to see his line. This presents as little unguarded (exposed) moving blade as possible, to be accidentally contacted by the user.
With the table saw, there is a theory which states that the safest use keeps the blade as low as possible -- that is, barely higher that the thickness of the stock being cut or ripped.
Unfortunately, this is not always a good idea. The user will soon feel when his stock is forced upward as he moves it into a blade so lowered. If so, the blade is too low for safe work, and must be raised enough so that the action of the blade is neutral, or better, tends to hold the work down as it is fed forward. Each blade type, and the nature of the stock, will affect the ideal placement of the blade in this regard.
binary
Feb 9, 10 12:36 am
when cross cutting wood, run some masking tape along the cut line to reduce chipping and when pulling the tape off, pull towards the cut at an angle...
for table saw blades, i tend to keep the blade about 1/8" above the material surface to reduce exposed blade and a hard vertical force on the material.
for cutting beveled edges, angle the blade away from the fence if possible so the material doesn't pinch under the blade/btw the fence with cutting. a left tilt table saw is good to have also.
for band saws, you have to make sure all the guides are alinged right and the tension for the blade is set correctly. there are also different blade per applications and straight/round cuts....
ArchStudent221
Feb 9, 10 12:57 am
Thank for all the info. very helpful! sdr that saw does look good but price and size are definitely an issue for a student with a bunch of debt in a small studio/dorm/wherever. I think ill be going with the microlux if i do purchase one. :/ one of my worries is safety. i dont know how good it is to be using that towards the end of an all nighter..
montagneux
Feb 9, 10 1:09 am
Have you considered using a Ryoba?
It's a japanese double-sided pull saw. I can cut a pine 2 by 4 in less than a minute with one.
Pull saws are more accurate and less tiring.
binary
Feb 9, 10 2:15 pm
if he was doing fine woodworking and japanese joinery i can see using the ryoba.... they are tricky to get started though...
i can post a few pics of my micro lux setup if needed.....
SDR
Feb 9, 10 3:17 pm
If I didn't have any motorized saw at all, a Japanese pullsaw would be an excellent alternative -- come to think of it. Living on the West Coast for thirty years, I have usually seen one of these in the kit of many carpenters and most cabinetmakers I have worked beside. My own gets a lot of use. The finer-toothed blade would work on thin stock if the work were approached at a low angle.
Because the blade is so thin, and the teeth have no "set," it is essential that the cut be started at the intended angle, because virtually no "steering" is possible once the cut is more than a 1/4 - 3/8" deep. The plus is that the cut is both fast and smooth. A gentle touch is more important (and necessary) than a vigorous hand.
Though I haven't done so, one could make a small wooden miter box for use with the pull saw. (One already used for a normal hand saw would be useless, as the kerf would have too much slop.)
SDR
Feb 9, 10 3:18 pm
Yes, I'd love to see anyone's model-making setups. We can all learn a lot from each other. . .
David Cuthbert
Feb 10, 10 6:29 pm
I once saw a table attachment for a dremel saw - that to me seems the most flexible
mr_minnesota
Feb 10, 10 8:22 pm
some kid is gonna walk into their parents' workshop ..think its a toy and turn it on and zip off their fingers..... i KNOW it...
its bound to happen
SDR
Feb 11, 10 12:05 pm
Fear and paranoid fantasy isn't going to get us anywhere. Yes, accidents -- stupid accidents, unforeseen accidents -- do happen. But here we are, anticipating them -- isn't that the antidote ?
The point is that work needs to be done, with the most appropriate tools for the job. We could all take away each others' scissors and paste -- and what would get done ?
Lock up your tools if there are untrustworthy hands about -- including children. Learn what your tool is meant to do, keep it in good shape with SHARP and true-running knives and blades, and proceed with confident caution -- or cautious confidence. The tools will soon tell you (positive feedback) what they want to do, and how -- if you are listening and watching, and feeling.
dumper
Feb 11, 10 10:32 pm
This table saw is made by Central Machinery. In fact ,the manufacturer is in China.
David Cuthbert
Feb 11, 10 10:39 pm
I just don't think we are talking about Model Making anymore... the saws that everyone is posting are things I'd use to make furniture or expect to see on a building site
montagneux
Feb 11, 10 10:47 pm
That's true.
I just mentioned using a pull saw because power tools often aren't as convenient as advertised.
I mean, technically, for model making... I'd advise against getting a table saw all together. I don't see the point. A router with a slider attachment would be like 80 times easier, be more flexible and provide precision... AND not to mention being able to use it "freehand."
When I did a lot of model making out of basal and basswood... I just used a chisel and a hammer.
I mean... my edges usually looked like crap but it was quicker and safer than tiny saws or exacto knives. I never cut myself once.
montagneux
Feb 11, 10 10:49 pm
Okay, that's a lie.
I did cut myself sharpening my tiny chisel once.
CHISELS4eva.
SDR
Feb 11, 10 11:27 pm
The whole thing sounds like a lie, actually !
I mean, a router for sawing ? Huh ?
Yes, I guess we haven't contributed much about model-making, RTNP. Maybe we should just give poor 221 his walking papers, and let him or her get on with it. . .
You can pretty much use a router as a replacement for any wood cutting tool.
And technically a router is the only tool available (other than a lazer cutter [which really works on the same principle as a router]) where you can start your cuts from the inside of a piece of wood.
SDR
Feb 12, 10 1:38 am
You wouldn't use a router to rip a sheet of material -- or a single board, for that matter. I don't say you couldn't, I say you wouldn't. Nor would you use one to cross-cut -- unless it were the only power tool in your shop.
Yes, the router can mortise -- which is what you call "starting a cut from the inside of a piece of wood." Each tool has its best uses. Making "basal" and basswood models with a hammer and chisel doesn't make sense to me -- if you were serious.
montagneux
Feb 12, 10 2:29 am
You use a bull point to indent the wood and then use a chisel to make small cuts into the wood. Once you cut far enough into the wood, you use a hammer to start splitting the wood.
If you have cut far enough into the wood, the wood will split nearly perfectly.
In my method on cutthing thin sheets of wood, I replace the bull point with a ball point pen as it does a pretty sufficient job of marking and taking care of the job of bull point.
I've explored many alternatives to woodworking because I cannot for the life of me stand people who are "my way or the highway" kind of woodworkers.
There are many different ways of working with wood.
The Japanese are a pretty fine example of that since little-to-none of their tools cut on the push and only cut on the pull. Where as European tools are often the exact opposite.
Like coffee, there is no right way to do things. The only "right" way to do something is if you make a product that people want, appreciate and or like that "works."
Yes, you "shouldn't" use a router for rips or cross cuts. However, if you don't have a "shop" and you have a limited amount of money and you want results, a decent router will replace about 90% of your tools and provide a higher level of precision and cut quality.
While I may have completely butchered the wood balsa, you have incorrectly used the word "mortise."
An interior cut is only referred to a mortise if you're making a slot for a mortise-and-tenon joint-- a mortise is an slot or recess for joining materials or inserting objects.
(Neither of this helps because mortise is such a obscure usage for saying that you can start a cut anywhere other than an edge.)
However, if your making models with a high level of precision and the outside edges of your board are damaged... you can take the long route of planing or filing them. Or you can be a lazy bastard like me and cut from the middle.
SDR
Feb 12, 10 2:52 am
I'm glad you've found what works for you. That's the important thing, as you say.
I believe the best craftsmen are, in the end, largely self-educated. I feel so fortunate, for instance, to have avoided the sharpening fetish that is everywhere promoted and taught. I prefer the rapidly and effortlessly-achieved edge that a steady hand can produce on any decent bench grinder. It produces a micro-serrated edge, which cuts like crazy and which, while not as long-lasting as a polished edge, is easily re-created. And I never touch the flat face of the chisel, except to wipe off the loosest particles left from sharpening -- so I can plane with the tool, and it never turns into a toboggan.
But try telling any of that to the rest of the guys ! Most chisel collections I see are in sad shape, hardly ready to be used -- because sharpening is such a chore. It doesn't have to be. . .
interstitial
Feb 13, 10 1:35 pm
Proxxon makes quality model making tools as well, look through their range, i have previously used the mini table saw which is good for working with various small scale materials / pieces that would be lost a larger machine by less experienced users.
Aug 29, 14 3:09 pm
I'm bumping up this old thread and will add some points:
For architectural model making (not talking 3d model making), these powered tools should be used for rough cutting pieces to workable sizes that you need.
Hand tools should be used. I would recommend a fret saw frame ( looks like a coping saw with adjustable frame that can support a Jeweler's Saw (aka Piercing saw) blades for metal, wood and other materials. I would recommend a Jeweler Saw frame which is basically a fret saw with less throat depth (distance between the upper frame bar and the blade.) for smallr pieces and use the deeper standard fret saw frame for deeper pieces but can use the same blades if you get one that clearly states the supported blades.
All you need then is your drill. Have both a hand drill and powered drill. When working with thin delicate pieces, a hand drill with wood and maybe bits. (make sure you have your metal bits in one container and wood bits in another (all marked so you can identify the bits and where it goes.)
Have a razor saw for cutting long straight lines. A razor maybe used for scoring lines or some small cutting work. Have a tool chest of your tools and use the tools to make your job easier. Invest in the bench pin. After all, professional jewelers uses this stuff every day to make very fine intricate cuts. An X-acto razor knife is only going to go so far.
It will work with different materials. Just keep them in your tool chest so campus security/police doesn't get freaked out on you and be responsible. Wear your protective eye gear and otherwise be careful. Have your own first aid and bandage kit at your work area. Take your time and work only when you are not too fatigue to be careful because these tools can injure you and that can decommission and set you back more than just working when you are able to work safely.
It is worth investing in the right tool and be responsible.
I think this information is useful today as well.
reviewcart
Jan 26, 19 2:51 pm
It uses a round 1/2" shaft, so you could hook up anything you want to it, just have to make an adaptor. It comes with a 1/2" -> 3/8" so it will fit most all power drills.
I'm interested in what people think about a small table saw to aid in model making.
This link is to a $40 table saw that is 7-6/8" x 5-5/8" x 6-1/2" which is incredibly small and amazingly cheap. I was wondering if people have had experience with this kind of thing or other similar suggestions.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93211
Thanks for the feedback.
arch - congrats on taking these kinds of matters into your own hands. seriously, there aren't that many students who really care.
i used an 8" dia. saw for model pieces a lot during my grad school education. never really seen one that small outside mack scogin and merrill elam's model shop maybe 8-10 years ago.
only thing i can offer, in terms of thinking about table saws, is to really consider how big/dense of pieces you might ever put in there. the 4" seems (from what i can glean from your link) really well suited if you're cutting primarily bass wood pieces, maybe no more than a 1/4" thick. after that, you'd have to start wondering if the motor has enough rpm's to really push through the wood quickly enough so that you don't burn out the motor. hence one of my reasons for going up to the 8" size - not quite as scary as a full 10", but you could push through 3/4" plywood just fine. it was also easier to set that thing up in a quasi-permanent table, making the surface area for sliding bigger pieces through (safely) easier to accomplish.
which is probably the last thing to consider - if your school has a full on 10" saw, with a great table/bed, and you can do any decent sized cuts (for a base, piece of furniture, whatever) and you're going to have this around as your small piece cutter, then it sounds like a winning setup to me. if you don't have access to a larger saw, this still may work, just be careful pushing larger stock through.
i should add - i never used a table saw for anything other than solid stock pieces (1/4" sheet goods or larger). i always cut anything smaller with a chopper or by hand with a razor, not only because those pieces wouldn't really work on a table saw (at that size), but because it's still hard to get super precise cuts on something that small without using a razor. make sense? now, that saw may be so little, you could line up a bunch of 1/4 x 1/4 basswood pieces and run them through just fine- i'm just trying to point out the limitations of the larger sized saw.
Amazingly cheap is the operative phrase here. The blades on a similarly sized one we used in grad school cost almost as much. When I was a carpenter, we referred to this type of tool as a "homeowner" grade tool. i.e., weekend, light-duty use only. So if you're only going to use it for a few semesters of school, it may be worth the investment.
I would look into how easy replacement parts (the motor, especially) are to purchase/obtain.
Thanks so much for the information!
outed - really helpful, ill be in grad school next year so im not sure if ill have access to a 10" yet. do you have a recommendation for a 8" table saw?
justin - i looked at blades and they are relatively cheap supposing they last a while. ill have to look into the motor. thanks for the input!
spend the extra cash and keep it for years....they have additional blades too and i would recommend building a slide table.
Those saws look like they'd be the shizzy for dedicated fret slotting rigs. Look at all those kerf options, it's spectacular!
I have the Micromark too and it's a beautiful piece of Japanese kit. It's also small and easy to transport.
That microlux does look niceee, what do you mean by slide table?
The Micromark saw itself is maybe 15 inches square so a bigger table allows you to more easily cut longer stuff.
wow - if they'd had that micromark thing around when i was a youngster, i'd have certainly looked at it. that thing looks great - we may have to look into one for our studio now...
arch - i had just a typical lower end contractor grade machine - something by porter + cable. for what you're probably doing, stay away from ryobi, but a home depot type saw should be fine. also, if you have any where you live, check out a local hardware shop (independent) - they may have a buy/sell board where you could pick up a much nicer used saw for about the same money as a new one.
These are really small saws -- the Harbor Freight one is really tiny. And the bigger one has a smaller blade ! -- 3 3/4" vs 4". Max cutting depth 1" on Micromark, 3/4" on Harbor Freight. You'd want to screw or clamp these down to your table or bench. Maybe fasten the saw to a panel, which could be clamped down. . .
Ripping small pieces requires a nice tight slot in the throat-piece, for safety and quality of cut. One of the first tasks with a new saw is often to make your own throat-piece inserts, for this reason. Not an easy job, for some saws.
For $400 one should be able to get an eight-inch saw, it seems to me. Unless you're confined to working in your dorm room, I'd consider a larger saw. Why limit yourself to small and light materials only ? The right blade, smooth-operating miter gauge and tight, parallel fence, and a tight opening in your throat-pieces (a separate one for mitering, usually), and you're in business with any saw -- for even the smallest work.
my advice on table saws from what little i know of them, is that you get what you pay for. i myself wouldn't waste $40 on a $40 table saw. if you are building scale models, then you are probably going for a high level of precision. those little ones they have are basically best at making rough cross-cuts for framing, and not little high precision components. you need something with a good fence, a pretty good size table, and a blade that holds very true.
I am presently using a Ryobi 10" table saw that I inherited. I did some cleaning and tune-up, bought a new blade, made some plywood throat pieces, and have been getting very good service from it. Lots of power, arbor runs true, has a clever sliding table instead of a traditional miter guage. The aluminum trunion and table are well designed and made.
Here is a newer model, with a folding stand -- for less money that the Micromark, and a lot more saw.
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100593232&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_sku=100593232&ci_src=14110944&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googlebase-_-D25X-_-100593232
SDR,
It's good to keep that in mind but you are comparing apples and oranges. The Micromark will do a better job with small pieces and is more portable. The one you cite is more flexible and is better suited to a lot more tasks.
" and is better suited to a lot more tasks." -- my point exactly.
Why do you feel that the Micromark will do "a better job with small pieces" ? In my experience, what works best with miniature pieces is a smooth table and a close-fitting and perfectly flush throat-piece, and perhaps a home-made accessory fence that clamps to the proprietary one and presents a low profile, so the fingers and push-sticks (I like a sharp awl for some pieces) can get closer to the blade without interference. (Work pieces that are held down firmly will not vibrate and roughen the cut.) There is nothing about a well-made full-sized saw that is at odds with this list of requirements.
I generally recommend a 3/32" wide blade, now that they are commonly available. Less waste, less effort in cutting -- and they seem more appropriate for thinner materials. I bought an inexpensive Irwin 40-tooth rip blade that does a really nice job on all the woods I've put to it. A 60-tooth blade would be more suitable to thin stock, however.
It is inevitable that the model-maker is going to want, sooner or later, to cut a 1-inch thick piece of stock. A saw with a 4-inch blade that rises no more than one inch from the table just isn't going to "cut it" -- either in HP or in blade height. A bigger tool can do both large and small work; a small tool cannot do both.
With all due respect. . .!
That said, of course the ideal is for the maker to use the kinds of tools he is most experienced and most comfortable with. It is only when a new class of tool is to be purchased that some research is necessary.
Buy a table saw that has one of those safety shutoff devices.
It's only a matter of time before you cut something off.
The saw that stops dead when live flesh touches the blade is fine if you can afford it. Of course, it doesn't start running again until an aluminum block buried in the blade has been removed. . .
Many of us have had table saw cuts, sadly -- but it isn't and shouldn't be thought of as inevitable. Never have your hand or fingers beyond the blade -- kickbacks that draw the hand back over the blade seem to account for the greater number of accidents. Common sense, a smooth-running operation (practiced with the blade down), and never putting yourself where you can be cut, is most of it.
Final thoughts about buying a saw: run the one you're going to buy. If there is any runout (blade wobble) AT ALL, try a different blade -- and reject the machine if there is still run-out. Try all functions (raise, and tilt, and the fence sliding and locking) to see if you are satisfied. Most functions can be improved with adjustment and/or lubrication -- but try to eliminate machines that are faulty "out of the box."
(Runout shows best as the blade is coming to a stop after the motor is turned off. . .)
Yes... but unlike other shop accidents involving band saws and drill presses (both have happened to me) you can usually walk away from perfectly able'd without serious injury.
A table saw on the other hand-- like a chainsaw-- is really, really unforgiving.
if you have a good slide box, any table saw will work.... but if i'm working with small pieces of styrene and basswood, i use my microlux..... for a student, the microlux would be best and if large items need to be cut, then they can use the main wood shop.....
students should also be taught the correct ways of using shop tools. when i managed a university shop for 4 years, i made sure everyone knew wth they were doing on the machines. if they didn't, i would teach them or if they seemed scared, then i would make the cuts/sands/drills for them. over the 4 years, i didn't have any accidents due to proper training of my work-study and the upper classmen.
Sounds good, :/ -- thanks.
There is a good way to minimize the danger of using a band saw: Keep the upper blade guide as close to the work as possible (i.e., lowered as far as possible) while still allowing the user to see his line. This presents as little unguarded (exposed) moving blade as possible, to be accidentally contacted by the user.
With the table saw, there is a theory which states that the safest use keeps the blade as low as possible -- that is, barely higher that the thickness of the stock being cut or ripped.
Unfortunately, this is not always a good idea. The user will soon feel when his stock is forced upward as he moves it into a blade so lowered. If so, the blade is too low for safe work, and must be raised enough so that the action of the blade is neutral, or better, tends to hold the work down as it is fed forward. Each blade type, and the nature of the stock, will affect the ideal placement of the blade in this regard.
when cross cutting wood, run some masking tape along the cut line to reduce chipping and when pulling the tape off, pull towards the cut at an angle...
for table saw blades, i tend to keep the blade about 1/8" above the material surface to reduce exposed blade and a hard vertical force on the material.
for cutting beveled edges, angle the blade away from the fence if possible so the material doesn't pinch under the blade/btw the fence with cutting. a left tilt table saw is good to have also.
for band saws, you have to make sure all the guides are alinged right and the tension for the blade is set correctly. there are also different blade per applications and straight/round cuts....
Thank for all the info. very helpful! sdr that saw does look good but price and size are definitely an issue for a student with a bunch of debt in a small studio/dorm/wherever. I think ill be going with the microlux if i do purchase one. :/ one of my worries is safety. i dont know how good it is to be using that towards the end of an all nighter..
Have you considered using a Ryoba?
It's a japanese double-sided pull saw. I can cut a pine 2 by 4 in less than a minute with one.
Pull saws are more accurate and less tiring.
if he was doing fine woodworking and japanese joinery i can see using the ryoba.... they are tricky to get started though...
i can post a few pics of my micro lux setup if needed.....
If I didn't have any motorized saw at all, a Japanese pullsaw would be an excellent alternative -- come to think of it. Living on the West Coast for thirty years, I have usually seen one of these in the kit of many carpenters and most cabinetmakers I have worked beside. My own gets a lot of use. The finer-toothed blade would work on thin stock if the work were approached at a low angle.
Because the blade is so thin, and the teeth have no "set," it is essential that the cut be started at the intended angle, because virtually no "steering" is possible once the cut is more than a 1/4 - 3/8" deep. The plus is that the cut is both fast and smooth. A gentle touch is more important (and necessary) than a vigorous hand.
Though I haven't done so, one could make a small wooden miter box for use with the pull saw. (One already used for a normal hand saw would be useless, as the kerf would have too much slop.)
Yes, I'd love to see anyone's model-making setups. We can all learn a lot from each other. . .
I once saw a table attachment for a dremel saw - that to me seems the most flexible
some kid is gonna walk into their parents' workshop ..think its a toy and turn it on and zip off their fingers..... i KNOW it...
its bound to happen
Fear and paranoid fantasy isn't going to get us anywhere. Yes, accidents -- stupid accidents, unforeseen accidents -- do happen. But here we are, anticipating them -- isn't that the antidote ?
The point is that work needs to be done, with the most appropriate tools for the job. We could all take away each others' scissors and paste -- and what would get done ?
Lock up your tools if there are untrustworthy hands about -- including children. Learn what your tool is meant to do, keep it in good shape with SHARP and true-running knives and blades, and proceed with confident caution -- or cautious confidence. The tools will soon tell you (positive feedback) what they want to do, and how -- if you are listening and watching, and feeling.
This table saw is made by Central Machinery. In fact ,the manufacturer is in China.
I just don't think we are talking about Model Making anymore... the saws that everyone is posting are things I'd use to make furniture or expect to see on a building site
That's true.
I just mentioned using a pull saw because power tools often aren't as convenient as advertised.
I mean, technically, for model making... I'd advise against getting a table saw all together. I don't see the point. A router with a slider attachment would be like 80 times easier, be more flexible and provide precision... AND not to mention being able to use it "freehand."
When I did a lot of model making out of basal and basswood... I just used a chisel and a hammer.
I mean... my edges usually looked like crap but it was quicker and safer than tiny saws or exacto knives. I never cut myself once.
Okay, that's a lie.
I did cut myself sharpening my tiny chisel once.
CHISELS4eva.
The whole thing sounds like a lie, actually !
I mean, a router for sawing ? Huh ?
Yes, I guess we haven't contributed much about model-making, RTNP. Maybe we should just give poor 221 his walking papers, and let him or her get on with it. . .
Yes, you can use a router for sawing.
You can pretty much use a router as a replacement for any wood cutting tool.
And technically a router is the only tool available (other than a lazer cutter [which really works on the same principle as a router]) where you can start your cuts from the inside of a piece of wood.
You wouldn't use a router to rip a sheet of material -- or a single board, for that matter. I don't say you couldn't, I say you wouldn't. Nor would you use one to cross-cut -- unless it were the only power tool in your shop.
Yes, the router can mortise -- which is what you call "starting a cut from the inside of a piece of wood." Each tool has its best uses. Making "basal" and basswood models with a hammer and chisel doesn't make sense to me -- if you were serious.
You use a bull point to indent the wood and then use a chisel to make small cuts into the wood. Once you cut far enough into the wood, you use a hammer to start splitting the wood.
If you have cut far enough into the wood, the wood will split nearly perfectly.
In my method on cutthing thin sheets of wood, I replace the bull point with a ball point pen as it does a pretty sufficient job of marking and taking care of the job of bull point.
I've explored many alternatives to woodworking because I cannot for the life of me stand people who are "my way or the highway" kind of woodworkers.
There are many different ways of working with wood.
The Japanese are a pretty fine example of that since little-to-none of their tools cut on the push and only cut on the pull. Where as European tools are often the exact opposite.
Like coffee, there is no right way to do things. The only "right" way to do something is if you make a product that people want, appreciate and or like that "works."
Yes, you "shouldn't" use a router for rips or cross cuts. However, if you don't have a "shop" and you have a limited amount of money and you want results, a decent router will replace about 90% of your tools and provide a higher level of precision and cut quality.
While I may have completely butchered the wood balsa, you have incorrectly used the word "mortise."
An interior cut is only referred to a mortise if you're making a slot for a mortise-and-tenon joint-- a mortise is an slot or recess for joining materials or inserting objects.
(Neither of this helps because mortise is such a obscure usage for saying that you can start a cut anywhere other than an edge.)
However, if your making models with a high level of precision and the outside edges of your board are damaged... you can take the long route of planing or filing them. Or you can be a lazy bastard like me and cut from the middle.
I'm glad you've found what works for you. That's the important thing, as you say.
I believe the best craftsmen are, in the end, largely self-educated. I feel so fortunate, for instance, to have avoided the sharpening fetish that is everywhere promoted and taught. I prefer the rapidly and effortlessly-achieved edge that a steady hand can produce on any decent bench grinder. It produces a micro-serrated edge, which cuts like crazy and which, while not as long-lasting as a polished edge, is easily re-created. And I never touch the flat face of the chisel, except to wipe off the loosest particles left from sharpening -- so I can plane with the tool, and it never turns into a toboggan.
But try telling any of that to the rest of the guys ! Most chisel collections I see are in sad shape, hardly ready to be used -- because sharpening is such a chore. It doesn't have to be. . .
Proxxon makes quality model making tools as well, look through their range, i have previously used the mini table saw which is good for working with various small scale materials / pieces that would be lost a larger machine by less experienced users.
I'm bumping up this old thread and will add some points:
For architectural model making (not talking 3d model making), these powered tools should be used for rough cutting pieces to workable sizes that you need.
Hand tools should be used. I would recommend a fret saw frame ( looks like a coping saw with adjustable frame that can support a Jeweler's Saw (aka Piercing saw) blades for metal, wood and other materials. I would recommend a Jeweler Saw frame which is basically a fret saw with less throat depth (distance between the upper frame bar and the blade.) for smallr pieces and use the deeper standard fret saw frame for deeper pieces but can use the same blades if you get one that clearly states the supported blades.
All you need then is your drill. Have both a hand drill and powered drill. When working with thin delicate pieces, a hand drill with wood and maybe bits. (make sure you have your metal bits in one container and wood bits in another (all marked so you can identify the bits and where it goes.)
Have a razor saw for cutting long straight lines. A razor maybe used for scoring lines or some small cutting work. Have a tool chest of your tools and use the tools to make your job easier. Invest in the bench pin. After all, professional jewelers uses this stuff every day to make very fine intricate cuts. An X-acto razor knife is only going to go so far.
It will work with different materials. Just keep them in your tool chest so campus security/police doesn't get freaked out on you and be responsible. Wear your protective eye gear and otherwise be careful. Have your own first aid and bandage kit at your work area. Take your time and work only when you are not too fatigue to be careful because these tools can injure you and that can decommission and set you back more than just working when you are able to work safely.
It is worth investing in the right tool and be responsible.
I think this information is useful today as well.
It uses a round 1/2" shaft, so you could hook up anything you want to it, just have to make an adaptor. It comes with a 1/2" -> 3/8" so it will fit most all power drills.