Has anyone out there worked at Herzog & de Meuron? I’ve seen a lot of similar threads for firms like OMA and Norman Foster but little info about hdm. I guess not having a website makes them a bit mysterious. Does anyone know what type of questions they ask in interviews or what the work enviro is like?
holz.box
Oct 10, 09 9:32 pm
in germany, i worked with a really good architect that had worked w/ perrault, and who sent his resume periodically. never got a bite while i was there.
supposedly a former co-worker of mine got a job (unpaid)
i have mixed feelings about their recent work. it'll be interesting to see the direction the office takes w/ harry gugger breaking out.
YucatanSam
Oct 11, 09 12:21 pm
Thanks holz.box. No one else has anything? See what I mean.
Evan Chakroff
Oct 11, 09 2:25 pm
(shhhh!)
Tim Do
Oct 11, 09 2:39 pm
they are a bit secretive, and i hear you need a reference from someone currently working there.
IamGray
Oct 11, 09 2:42 pm
Give it a shot...just don't expect too much.
For a 'starchitect' office they're surprisingly un-international in make-up. Most of their employees from what I understand, have received positions after being tapped on the shoulder.
YucatanSam
Oct 11, 09 2:48 pm
tapped on the shoulder?
IamGray
Oct 11, 09 8:09 pm
Sorry, a bit cryptic I guess....
It means they pick you. ie you need to study with someone, or know someone beforehand. At least that's what I've heard.
A W
Oct 11, 09 9:21 pm
I ran into him at Bill Stout's book store a few times and we chatted at length once. Find a contact on the inside and that's usually how people get GOOD jobs. The cattle call is really one in a million.
Really good places only hire based upon the recommendations of colleagues and current employees. That's how it works in Academia and at places like Herzog or Renzo Piano.
odee
Oct 11, 09 10:35 pm
It seems that knowing someone on the inside is the only way to get any decent job in this economy. Open calls for employees seems to be more work than it's worth in the long run as you'd spend months sifting through the resumes/work samples.
I heard them in an interview saying they felt they didn't think the web experience offered much in exploration - or something like that - which seems completely untrue. If nothing else, I'd expect them to have some sort of "anti-site" like Radiohead where they sort of play with the medium. At the end of the day the website is a marketing tool largely - it seems they've decided they are getting great workers and great projects... what else do they need.
Also - they are the architects for the Kolkata Museum of Modern Art. Rumors are swirling here that the project is dead. Though a person I know who is involved keeps telling me the design is ready and so cool. But I can't imagine HdM sitting on a design that they could be leaking to promote themselves. Seems weird. Harry was the lead on this project and I'm wondering if his departure is affecting the project - not to mention the disinterest of the public here in Kolkata towards this project. The area of town it's being developed in has been the "hot" market for about 5 years, but not much is built.
brian buchalski
Oct 12, 09 2:49 pm
once you realize that emil already has the best website ever, then there's not much point in competing. obviously jacques & pierre would rather let emil have the spotlight of internet all to himself. we should be thankful for that.
l3wis
Oct 12, 09 4:40 pm
Fuck you, puddles! Never should have clicked on that, lol. >_<
LucasGray
Oct 12, 09 5:08 pm
They have a big office...over 300 employees I've heard. They must need more people than just the few students that they teach at Harvard and friends of friends in Basel.
I say send them emails and mail portfolios, and call.
I tried to stop by their fortress of solitute while visiting Basel. Its seriously like an imposing place. Didn't get closer than their steel gate. But I did meet a couple of their employees. They said they work long hours for low pay. Figures.
sounds like you are demanding - for YOUR sake - that HdM put up a website. clearly, they have no need - from their point of view - to have one, or they would.
the fact that most everyone else does have a site says absolutely nothing about HdM.
i am sure that the others you list can cite reasons for their sites, but that still doesn't answer the question of "why should HdM feel compelled to have a website?"
seems to me, that by not having a site, they eliminate having people contact them unnecessarily or having to spend the time and effort to keep it fresh and up-to-date, when they could be spending that time to keep their architecture fresh and up-to-date.
unless you can cite what inherent advantage it is for THEM to have a site or you can name what disadvantage they endure for NOT having a website, then i have no idea how you can speak about "justification".
ps - i haven't yet found a website for Glenn Murcett - does that count as 1 of the 10?
he is now deceased, but i never did find a website for Sverre Fehn - does that count as 2nd of 10?
also can't seem to find a website for Peter Zumthor - is that 3 of 10?
jplourde
Oct 13, 09 6:31 am
ah! dlb, you beat me to PZ!
jplourde
Oct 13, 09 6:31 am
ah! dlb, you beat me to PZ!
dlb
Oct 13, 09 6:49 am
the web address for SANAA (sejima and nishizawa) lists 4 email addresses if you want information or want to make contact. they do not have a website per se.
make that # 4 of 10.
LucasGray
Oct 13, 09 6:57 am
Hmm, I would argue that Sanaa has a website. A very effective one actually. I believe the main reason for firms to have a website is to get people, mostly prospective clients, to contact them.
It is difficult to find the contact info for Herzog and de Meuron - although with a bit of an internet search it isn't impossible.
@dlb
"justification to who? for whom? for what? sounds like you are demanding" C'mon... are you serious? I'm not demanding anything! We're just talking! Alright typing...
"You give me 10 offices without a webpage and I'll give 10k."
I meant: For each 10 offices you give me with no webpage, I'll give you 10 thousand with a webpage! No money intended, so stop searching... eheheh
SANAA? Yeah, just 4 emails...
BTW what's H&dM email? Gonna tell me they don't need emails? C'mon...
C'mon Jacques&Pierre... it's 2 thousand and freaking 9! Get out of the cave!
LucasGray
Oct 13, 09 8:15 am
their email is [email protected] - XXXX depends on who you are trying to contact at the firm
i still haven't heard you articulate what purpose would be served for HdM to have a website. given the immense amount of publicity they receive, i don't really see them being "in a cave".
they lecture a lot, Jacques often teaches in major universities, so it's not like they are hiding or anti-social.
so the question remains; what have they got to gain with a website? until you can answer that, then why bother ragging on about their supposed lack.
by the way, oscar niemayer doesn't seem to have a website. let's make that #5.
LucasGray
Oct 13, 09 8:41 am
It has been stated already, but the primary reason people want them to have a website is to make it easier for us to see what they are working on and images of their past projects without spending hundreds of dollars for books that are out of date by the time they are published.
I'm not sure exactly what kwdll is saying. Besides, I am almost positive they don't have a Facebook page. I would bet 10,000 websites that someone else set that up.
look, if you want a gig at hdm that bad, try starting at one of their us affiliates. for example, gary handel's office, in new york, is handling the miami art museum project, as well as the 40 bond street and the other condo building in ny. if you land on one of those teams, chances are you've got a pretty good 'in' should you decide to relocate to basel.
jacques has been asked before about not having a website - his answer was that they saw no need, especially since there were so many sites out there that were already 'curating' (his word) their work.
trust me, if you're a potential client that they'd actually take on (and not some groupie), you're smart enough to find out their contact information without a website...
outed
Oct 13, 09 8:48 am
in fact, just to back it up, from 'kultureflash', circa 2007:
Anthony Hoete: I am interviewing you on behalf of KultureFlash, which is a free weekly web-based newsletter covering contemporary culture in and around London. Given this format, in preparing for this interview I decided to undertake two forms of web research on your office: to consult your website and to consult our own network of architectural enthusiasts by sending out a single emailed question: "If you could ask Jacques Herzog one question, what would it be?" This research went out the window when I surprisingly learnt that there is no Herzog & de Meuron website...
Jacques Herzog: That is correct. We do not have a website.
AH: I find that surprising given your global visibility or perhaps it is because of this you have no need for web-based PR. Does Google act as proxy for the absent Herzog & de Meuron homepage -- when searched for, 594,000 results came up?
JH: The function of a website as I see it is purely as archive -- a potentially efficient informational store.
AH: This suggests that the architectural website is a retrospective space only...
JH: Yes, with 594,000 results there is a necessity to edit and curate information not directly generated by the architect. This means we could edit and organise this plethora of information regarding our own architecture and urbanism as it has been perceived, written about and "pressed" into existence by others. Why do our own press when you are doing it for us?
kwdll
Oct 13, 09 9:21 am
@dlb
Wouldn't those adresses be easier to find if they had a webpage?
@www.talkitect.com
Among various other reasons, I pretty much agree your first paragraph...
My point is:
I don't see one (1!) single similar firm (size, relevance, ...) to H&dM without a website. But maybe everybody else is just wasting their time&money... maybe that's it.
LucasGray
Oct 13, 09 1:16 pm
But if no one had websites everyone would be the same and thus they wouldn't attract attention. The fact that they don't have a website actually gets them MORE press, more attention - but only because everyone else has one.
There aren't forums discussing the merits of Diller +Scofidio having a website or not. This is all free advertising, free press for Herzog and de Meuron. Like he said in the quote above, we are doing all the cataloging for them.
regarding DS+R there def have been threads asking about why they didn't have a website before they eventually made what they have now. you could also probably find them discussing the merits of not having a website until they finally caved and decided it was a good idea.
Oct 13, 09 2:50 pm
"my guess: The Swiss can be a very frugal people. No evident or inherent income generating potential, hence, no website. And it certainly helps when there's an obfuscation card always in your hand." 2008.06.28 05:59
dlb
Oct 13, 09 3:00 pm
"But if no one had websites everyone would be the same and thus they wouldn't attract attention."
no, it would be like 1994.
websites are only a recent mode of representation, dissemination, and publicity. they are not the only means and there is ample evidence that in general they do very little for the offices that create them.
they do a lot more for those that want information/images/references and contacts. they are probably more relevant to smaller, up-and-coming offices than they are for larger, more well-known offices.
i know very few instances of where clients have only been aware of an office because of their website. they may indeed use a website as a means to get in touch or find out more about an office and their range of work, but i can't imagine a single client who tries to contact Zaha, Rem, SOM, Fosters, etc just because they have a website. if they were really interested and serious, they would have the means and the initiative to get in touch.
based on the discussion on this thread, the real beneficiary of websites are students.
uhhhhh
Oct 13, 09 3:08 pm
perhaps, based upon my observations of their work and methods, that taking on the problem of a webpage, archive, or the like, would have to be understood in the particular vein that h&dem approaches their architecture. and seeing how it has taken so many years (as it would any reputable firm) for them to coalesce and manifest their architecture, that the design 'problem' of the webpage is just another can of worms to open that they would rather not.
that being said, oscar is from another world and period, zumthor's work is intimate and small, but h&dem's is large and much more corporate than the others, so my personal opinion is that it is inappropriate for them to not have a webpage if they are feeding off of a system that requires it. actually, in that sense, it's kind of rude not to have one.
uhhhhh
Oct 13, 09 3:14 pm
while i agree with the way you frame the website problem, dlb, i still disagree in the sense that webpages are much more than a marketing interface. running the risk of sounding cliche, the internet is a global network that has radically transformed our understanding and methods of input/outputs; it has radically transformed how we produce systems, infrastructure, and a plethora of other things, including architecture. webpages are, to some degree, a manifestation of this, albeit a small one. allowing internet users to interact with an interface that is run by your company is very, very appropriate, given the nature of H&dem's work.
i am guessing that they just don't want to deal with making one because of the insurmountable task that it would be for them. but how would i know, this is only speculation.
wrecking ball
Oct 13, 09 5:17 pm
i know someone who applied to HdeM cold, got an interview, and got the job. this was pre-crash however and I believe it's even harder now for an american to score a job in switz w/o a work visa. although i've heard that HdeM has a lot of pull with the swiss gov't so if they really want you, they will hire you.
dlb
Oct 13, 09 8:23 pm
when i read respondents saying that there is "no justification" for HdM not having a website, or "it is inappropriate for them to not have a webpage", i wonder what kind of view of the world this embodies.
basically it say that HdM (and all other architects) MUST put up a website so that students and others will have easy access to their works and projects. that they should somehow be compelled to provide timely updates and news so that the public can find out what is going on.
this is totally asinine.
it seems to me that HdM are in an enviable position of have access to all the clients they need, that their work is sought enough for it to be available on many sites, and yet they can keep control over how they respond and disseminate information, images and contacts. that by operating the way they do, they determine the relationships. this is a powerful position to be in.
the idea that there is some "entitlement" to their work and their interface with the world is about as silly as you can get.
brian buchalski
Oct 13, 09 8:36 pm
word
and how perfect is it that students/young architects complain about wages offered by firms yet also insist that firms waste money on fancy graphics website?
The reason why HdeM has no website... pure marketing. Just compare it to OMA.
HdeM plays the role of the hard-worker, high-efficient Swiss craftsmanship. In that context, a website is pure vanity. HdeM builds nice, well-built constructions rather than does business (that's the image they want to sell us) :)
On the other hand OMA plays the role of the ultracapitalist, ultraglobalized architectural practice, that would sell their soul to the ultimate Russian oligarch, the newest Chinese Businessman or the latest Arabian Sheikh. That's why they have a website that is constantly updated and looks more like a blog or a newsfeed. Also they have a million of publications (Content, AMO, etc.).
Obviously, both practices have the same aims (make business and as much money as possible) but they try to position their practices in different customer segments.
Hawkin
Oct 15, 09 4:56 am
@dlb
"i know very few instances of where clients have only been aware of an office because of their website. they may indeed use a website as a means to get in touch or find out more about an office and their range of work, but i can't imagine a single client who tries to contact Zaha, Rem, SOM, Fosters, etc just because they have a website. if they were really interested and serious, they would have the means and the initiative to get in touch."
You would be surprised. Probably is the opposite of what you think. Maybe if you are a modest architect (let's say) in Omaha or in Salzburg, most of your clients will reach you because of the mouth-to-hear.
But the world of the very-well known practices is different, you have loads of publications and marketing investments, and the website is the quickest and easier-to-access way to show your work. I worked for a couple of starchitects, and for what I could guess, many clients reached the office because they just were famous.
Sometimes there were enquiries from the most remote and unknown places or companies. Probably (I go back to my previous post) a Russian oligarch, a Chinese businessmen, an Arabian Sheikh or a Hollywood moviestar with loads of money and 0,00 knowledge of contemporary architecture just want the best (the best means the most famous, so we can show off and see their house in a 100 magazines around the world) architect in the world to do their house or an investment (office or residential building, for instance). So they probably enquired some friend with some architectural knowledge or just checked what other signature-buildings have been made in their country/city or other similar buildings around the world and they just got a list (OMA, Zaha, Foster, etc.). Next step, mail/phone call to the company.
A website makes a very good point to this, because the very-rich can just access their website, that at this point is office's business card.
Don't think that whoever commisions a project to Zaha Hadid has been an admirer of her work. Probably he never heard about her before. He just wants the flashiest building, the one that will attract more attention and that will make the investment the most profitable.
randomized
Oct 15, 09 5:47 am
funny how a thread about "working at HdM" turned into a "how to get rich clients via website" discussion. probably that's why HdM don't have a website, it prevents people that are interested in the easiest shallow shortcuts without putting in any energy or effort from contacting them about employment or commissions.
holz.box
Oct 15, 09 10:47 am
maybe it's a swiss thing...
i lot of swiss firms have no website (h&dem, zumthor) or really bad ones even if they're good architects.
though with the youger set, that seems to be changing.
Aditya Rao
Dec 5, 15 1:52 pm
funnily now they do have a website :D fun to read part of this convo though...
Volunteer
Dec 5, 15 4:04 pm
'herzogdemeuron.com' It's as anal as you would expect.
Has anyone out there worked at Herzog & de Meuron? I’ve seen a lot of similar threads for firms like OMA and Norman Foster but little info about hdm. I guess not having a website makes them a bit mysterious. Does anyone know what type of questions they ask in interviews or what the work enviro is like?
in germany, i worked with a really good architect that had worked w/ perrault, and who sent his resume periodically. never got a bite while i was there.
supposedly a former co-worker of mine got a job (unpaid)
i have mixed feelings about their recent work. it'll be interesting to see the direction the office takes w/ harry gugger breaking out.
Thanks holz.box. No one else has anything? See what I mean.
(shhhh!)
they are a bit secretive, and i hear you need a reference from someone currently working there.
Give it a shot...just don't expect too much.
For a 'starchitect' office they're surprisingly un-international in make-up. Most of their employees from what I understand, have received positions after being tapped on the shoulder.
tapped on the shoulder?
Sorry, a bit cryptic I guess....
It means they pick you. ie you need to study with someone, or know someone beforehand. At least that's what I've heard.
I ran into him at Bill Stout's book store a few times and we chatted at length once. Find a contact on the inside and that's usually how people get GOOD jobs. The cattle call is really one in a million.
Really good places only hire based upon the recommendations of colleagues and current employees. That's how it works in Academia and at places like Herzog or Renzo Piano.
It seems that knowing someone on the inside is the only way to get any decent job in this economy. Open calls for employees seems to be more work than it's worth in the long run as you'd spend months sifting through the resumes/work samples.
they don't really exist. they are unicorns.
How come they don't have a webpage? Facebook, but no webpage? Really! C'mon it's 2009!!! It makes absolutely no sense!
what is the point of a webpage?
- promotion of work ? ... they have numerous books and magazine articles coming out all the time, so not so much need of publicity.
- try to attract clients? ... they seem to have more than enough work to keep busy and doing the type and range of projects they are interested in.
- provide the latest news of the office? ... this is either done by other outlets or they feel no need to self-promote.
- provide easy resource of images for students? ... let them buy the books and magazines.
seems to make perfect sense to me.
@dlb
Well, still, no justification! You give me 10 offices without a webpage and I'll give 10k. It's as simples as that.
Answering you question: "what is the point of a webpage?" Ask:
MVRDV
OMA
BIG
JDS
REX
LAR
Morphosis
work ac
(...)
I heard them in an interview saying they felt they didn't think the web experience offered much in exploration - or something like that - which seems completely untrue. If nothing else, I'd expect them to have some sort of "anti-site" like Radiohead where they sort of play with the medium. At the end of the day the website is a marketing tool largely - it seems they've decided they are getting great workers and great projects... what else do they need.
Also - they are the architects for the Kolkata Museum of Modern Art. Rumors are swirling here that the project is dead. Though a person I know who is involved keeps telling me the design is ready and so cool. But I can't imagine HdM sitting on a design that they could be leaking to promote themselves. Seems weird. Harry was the lead on this project and I'm wondering if his departure is affecting the project - not to mention the disinterest of the public here in Kolkata towards this project. The area of town it's being developed in has been the "hot" market for about 5 years, but not much is built.
once you realize that emil already has the best website ever, then there's not much point in competing. obviously jacques & pierre would rather let emil have the spotlight of internet all to himself. we should be thankful for that.
Fuck you, puddles! Never should have clicked on that, lol. >_<
They have a big office...over 300 employees I've heard. They must need more people than just the few students that they teach at Harvard and friends of friends in Basel.
I say send them emails and mail portfolios, and call.
I tried to stop by their fortress of solitute while visiting Basel. Its seriously like an imposing place. Didn't get closer than their steel gate. But I did meet a couple of their employees. They said they work long hours for low pay. Figures.
-Lucas Gray
www.talkitect.com
Jacques wears a black cape.
kwdll - "Well, still no justification!"
justification to who? for whom? for what?
sounds like you are demanding - for YOUR sake - that HdM put up a website. clearly, they have no need - from their point of view - to have one, or they would.
the fact that most everyone else does have a site says absolutely nothing about HdM.
i am sure that the others you list can cite reasons for their sites, but that still doesn't answer the question of "why should HdM feel compelled to have a website?"
seems to me, that by not having a site, they eliminate having people contact them unnecessarily or having to spend the time and effort to keep it fresh and up-to-date, when they could be spending that time to keep their architecture fresh and up-to-date.
unless you can cite what inherent advantage it is for THEM to have a site or you can name what disadvantage they endure for NOT having a website, then i have no idea how you can speak about "justification".
ps - i haven't yet found a website for Glenn Murcett - does that count as 1 of the 10?
he is now deceased, but i never did find a website for Sverre Fehn - does that count as 2nd of 10?
also can't seem to find a website for Peter Zumthor - is that 3 of 10?
ah! dlb, you beat me to PZ!
ah! dlb, you beat me to PZ!
the web address for SANAA (sejima and nishizawa) lists 4 email addresses if you want information or want to make contact. they do not have a website per se.
make that # 4 of 10.
Hmm, I would argue that Sanaa has a website. A very effective one actually. I believe the main reason for firms to have a website is to get people, mostly prospective clients, to contact them.
It is difficult to find the contact info for Herzog and de Meuron - although with a bit of an internet search it isn't impossible.
-Lucas Gray
www.talkitect.com
what are you going to spend your 10K on dlb? I'm guessing not a website...
I don't have my own website for my architectural work.
-Lucas Gray
www.talkitect.com
@dlb
"justification to who? for whom? for what? sounds like you are demanding" C'mon... are you serious? I'm not demanding anything! We're just talking! Alright typing...
"You give me 10 offices without a webpage and I'll give 10k."
I meant: For each 10 offices you give me with no webpage, I'll give you 10 thousand with a webpage! No money intended, so stop searching... eheheh
SANAA? Yeah, just 4 emails...
BTW what's H&dM email? Gonna tell me they don't need emails? C'mon...
C'mon Jacques&Pierre... it's 2 thousand and freaking 9! Get out of the cave!
their email is [email protected] - XXXX depends on who you are trying to contact at the firm
-Lucas Gray
www.talkitect.com
the HdM email format is:
first initial . last [email protected] , as in [email protected]
i still haven't heard you articulate what purpose would be served for HdM to have a website. given the immense amount of publicity they receive, i don't really see them being "in a cave".
they lecture a lot, Jacques often teaches in major universities, so it's not like they are hiding or anti-social.
so the question remains; what have they got to gain with a website? until you can answer that, then why bother ragging on about their supposed lack.
by the way, oscar niemayer doesn't seem to have a website. let's make that #5.
It has been stated already, but the primary reason people want them to have a website is to make it easier for us to see what they are working on and images of their past projects without spending hundreds of dollars for books that are out of date by the time they are published.
I'm not sure exactly what kwdll is saying. Besides, I am almost positive they don't have a Facebook page. I would bet 10,000 websites that someone else set that up.
-Lucas Gray
www.talkitect.com
look, if you want a gig at hdm that bad, try starting at one of their us affiliates. for example, gary handel's office, in new york, is handling the miami art museum project, as well as the 40 bond street and the other condo building in ny. if you land on one of those teams, chances are you've got a pretty good 'in' should you decide to relocate to basel.
jacques has been asked before about not having a website - his answer was that they saw no need, especially since there were so many sites out there that were already 'curating' (his word) their work.
trust me, if you're a potential client that they'd actually take on (and not some groupie), you're smart enough to find out their contact information without a website...
in fact, just to back it up, from 'kultureflash', circa 2007:
Anthony Hoete: I am interviewing you on behalf of KultureFlash, which is a free weekly web-based newsletter covering contemporary culture in and around London. Given this format, in preparing for this interview I decided to undertake two forms of web research on your office: to consult your website and to consult our own network of architectural enthusiasts by sending out a single emailed question: "If you could ask Jacques Herzog one question, what would it be?" This research went out the window when I surprisingly learnt that there is no Herzog & de Meuron website...
Jacques Herzog: That is correct. We do not have a website.
AH: I find that surprising given your global visibility or perhaps it is because of this you have no need for web-based PR. Does Google act as proxy for the absent Herzog & de Meuron homepage -- when searched for, 594,000 results came up?
JH: The function of a website as I see it is purely as archive -- a potentially efficient informational store.
AH: This suggests that the architectural website is a retrospective space only...
JH: Yes, with 594,000 results there is a necessity to edit and curate information not directly generated by the architect. This means we could edit and organise this plethora of information regarding our own architecture and urbanism as it has been perceived, written about and "pressed" into existence by others. Why do our own press when you are doing it for us?
@dlb
Wouldn't those adresses be easier to find if they had a webpage?
@www.talkitect.com
Among various other reasons, I pretty much agree your first paragraph...
My point is:
I don't see one (1!) single similar firm (size, relevance, ...) to H&dM without a website. But maybe everybody else is just wasting their time&money... maybe that's it.
But if no one had websites everyone would be the same and thus they wouldn't attract attention. The fact that they don't have a website actually gets them MORE press, more attention - but only because everyone else has one.
There aren't forums discussing the merits of Diller +Scofidio having a website or not. This is all free advertising, free press for Herzog and de Meuron. Like he said in the quote above, we are doing all the cataloging for them.
-Lucas Gray
www.talkitect.com
regarding DS+R there def have been threads asking about why they didn't have a website before they eventually made what they have now. you could also probably find them discussing the merits of not having a website until they finally caved and decided it was a good idea.
"my guess: The Swiss can be a very frugal people. No evident or inherent income generating potential, hence, no website. And it certainly helps when there's an obfuscation card always in your hand."
2008.06.28 05:59
"But if no one had websites everyone would be the same and thus they wouldn't attract attention."
no, it would be like 1994.
websites are only a recent mode of representation, dissemination, and publicity. they are not the only means and there is ample evidence that in general they do very little for the offices that create them.
they do a lot more for those that want information/images/references and contacts. they are probably more relevant to smaller, up-and-coming offices than they are for larger, more well-known offices.
i know very few instances of where clients have only been aware of an office because of their website. they may indeed use a website as a means to get in touch or find out more about an office and their range of work, but i can't imagine a single client who tries to contact Zaha, Rem, SOM, Fosters, etc just because they have a website. if they were really interested and serious, they would have the means and the initiative to get in touch.
based on the discussion on this thread, the real beneficiary of websites are students.
perhaps, based upon my observations of their work and methods, that taking on the problem of a webpage, archive, or the like, would have to be understood in the particular vein that h&dem approaches their architecture. and seeing how it has taken so many years (as it would any reputable firm) for them to coalesce and manifest their architecture, that the design 'problem' of the webpage is just another can of worms to open that they would rather not.
that being said, oscar is from another world and period, zumthor's work is intimate and small, but h&dem's is large and much more corporate than the others, so my personal opinion is that it is inappropriate for them to not have a webpage if they are feeding off of a system that requires it. actually, in that sense, it's kind of rude not to have one.
while i agree with the way you frame the website problem, dlb, i still disagree in the sense that webpages are much more than a marketing interface. running the risk of sounding cliche, the internet is a global network that has radically transformed our understanding and methods of input/outputs; it has radically transformed how we produce systems, infrastructure, and a plethora of other things, including architecture. webpages are, to some degree, a manifestation of this, albeit a small one. allowing internet users to interact with an interface that is run by your company is very, very appropriate, given the nature of H&dem's work.
i am guessing that they just don't want to deal with making one because of the insurmountable task that it would be for them. but how would i know, this is only speculation.
i know someone who applied to HdeM cold, got an interview, and got the job. this was pre-crash however and I believe it's even harder now for an american to score a job in switz w/o a work visa. although i've heard that HdeM has a lot of pull with the swiss gov't so if they really want you, they will hire you.
when i read respondents saying that there is "no justification" for HdM not having a website, or "it is inappropriate for them to not have a webpage", i wonder what kind of view of the world this embodies.
basically it say that HdM (and all other architects) MUST put up a website so that students and others will have easy access to their works and projects. that they should somehow be compelled to provide timely updates and news so that the public can find out what is going on.
this is totally asinine.
it seems to me that HdM are in an enviable position of have access to all the clients they need, that their work is sought enough for it to be available on many sites, and yet they can keep control over how they respond and disseminate information, images and contacts. that by operating the way they do, they determine the relationships. this is a powerful position to be in.
the idea that there is some "entitlement" to their work and their interface with the world is about as silly as you can get.
word
and how perfect is it that students/young architects complain about wages offered by firms yet also insist that firms waste money on fancy graphics website?
found in the suggestion box:
www.HowCheapCanYouGet.com
The reason why HdeM has no website... pure marketing. Just compare it to OMA.
HdeM plays the role of the hard-worker, high-efficient Swiss craftsmanship. In that context, a website is pure vanity. HdeM builds nice, well-built constructions rather than does business (that's the image they want to sell us) :)
On the other hand OMA plays the role of the ultracapitalist, ultraglobalized architectural practice, that would sell their soul to the ultimate Russian oligarch, the newest Chinese Businessman or the latest Arabian Sheikh. That's why they have a website that is constantly updated and looks more like a blog or a newsfeed. Also they have a million of publications (Content, AMO, etc.).
Obviously, both practices have the same aims (make business and as much money as possible) but they try to position their practices in different customer segments.
@dlb
"i know very few instances of where clients have only been aware of an office because of their website. they may indeed use a website as a means to get in touch or find out more about an office and their range of work, but i can't imagine a single client who tries to contact Zaha, Rem, SOM, Fosters, etc just because they have a website. if they were really interested and serious, they would have the means and the initiative to get in touch."
You would be surprised. Probably is the opposite of what you think. Maybe if you are a modest architect (let's say) in Omaha or in Salzburg, most of your clients will reach you because of the mouth-to-hear.
But the world of the very-well known practices is different, you have loads of publications and marketing investments, and the website is the quickest and easier-to-access way to show your work. I worked for a couple of starchitects, and for what I could guess, many clients reached the office because they just were famous.
Sometimes there were enquiries from the most remote and unknown places or companies. Probably (I go back to my previous post) a Russian oligarch, a Chinese businessmen, an Arabian Sheikh or a Hollywood moviestar with loads of money and 0,00 knowledge of contemporary architecture just want the best (the best means the most famous, so we can show off and see their house in a 100 magazines around the world) architect in the world to do their house or an investment (office or residential building, for instance). So they probably enquired some friend with some architectural knowledge or just checked what other signature-buildings have been made in their country/city or other similar buildings around the world and they just got a list (OMA, Zaha, Foster, etc.). Next step, mail/phone call to the company.
A website makes a very good point to this, because the very-rich can just access their website, that at this point is office's business card.
Don't think that whoever commisions a project to Zaha Hadid has been an admirer of her work. Probably he never heard about her before. He just wants the flashiest building, the one that will attract more attention and that will make the investment the most profitable.
funny how a thread about "working at HdM" turned into a "how to get rich clients via website" discussion. probably that's why HdM don't have a website, it prevents people that are interested in the easiest shallow shortcuts without putting in any energy or effort from contacting them about employment or commissions.
maybe it's a swiss thing...
i lot of swiss firms have no website (h&dem, zumthor) or really bad ones even if they're good architects.
though with the youger set, that seems to be changing.
funnily now they do have a website :D fun to read part of this convo though...
'herzogdemeuron.com' It's as anal as you would expect.