Washington, DC—The National Council of Architectural Registration Boards (NCARB) will increase the fees for the Architect Registration Examination® (ARE®) by $40 per division effective 1 October 2009. The increase, which was announced today at the NCARB Annual Meeting and Conference in Chicago, is due to recent incidents of exam content disclosure by ARE candidates. The cost to develop and replace the exposed content and handle the administrative and legal costs related to these incidents totals an estimated $1.1 million.
“The decision to raise the exam fees now—especially in the current economic climate—was not made lightly,” said Gordon E. Mills, FAIA, President. “However, NCARB’s responsibility to uphold the integrity of the ARE is our first and foremost concern.”
The ARE is designed to protect the health, safety, and welfare of the public by providing a psychometrically justifiable and legally defensible process that measures the level of competence necessary to practice architecture independently. In recent months, NCARB has had to turn off substantial amounts of content after several candidates posted detailed exam content on the internet. These candidates have had their exam scores canceled and testing privileges suspended for up to five years. To ensure the integrity of the exam, NCARB has been forced to add two full-time staff members to monitor and investigate exam disclosures and copyright violations.
Replacing exam content is expensive and time consuming because each vignette or multiple-choice item must be written, reviewed, edited, and thoroughly pre-tested before it is added to the exam. The process of developing replacement content will take two years and the involvement of many volunteer professionals. The current six-month waiting period between failed divisions is in effect to ensure that a candidate does not see the same question twice. If ARE candidates continue to breach the Confidentiality Agreement they accept to prior to taking each division and additional exam content is exposed, NCARB may be forced to extend the mandatory waiting period in order to prevent overexposure of content.
Since NCARB produced the first national exam for architects in 1965, the cost of delivering the test has been heavily subsidized by other NCARB programs. Since the ARE was computerized in 1997, NCARB has subsidized more than $15 million in exam-related expenses.While the new fee structure will help offset the costs incurred as a result of exam disclosure, it still falls short of the actual cost of developing and administering the exam and monitoring its security.
The current version of the ARE is comprised of seven divisions that test a candidate’s knowledge, skills, and abilities to perform many of the tasks an architect encounters in practice. To become licensed, candidates must fulfill education and experience requirements, as well as pass all divisions of the ARE.
The new rate of $210 per division will take effect on 1 October 2009. All exams scheduled on or after 1 October 2009 will be at the new rate. Prior to 1 October 2009, candidates can schedule future exam appointments through 31 December 2009 at the current rate of $170 per division.
So just because someone screws up at the ARE for using the same questions since 1997, we have to pay for the legal costs?!!
b3tadine[sutures]
Jul 15, 09 5:19 pm
come on d00d. i've seen, exact word for word questions, exact descriptions of vignettes, at the areforum. those short cutting a-holes have screwed everyone else, they are always outed. if got a gripe send them an email.
oh, thank goodness i am done with that exam.
drums please, Fab?
Jul 15, 09 5:32 pm
wow that's a big jump in fees - i think they were $110-$135 back in the olden days when i took 'em.
thank goodness i am done with that exam.
drums please, Fab?
Jul 15, 09 5:41 pm
but i had to pass 9 exams versus the 7 exams required now .. so it's not too much more i suppose.
vado retro
Jul 15, 09 5:48 pm
Good timing ncarb!
binary
Jul 15, 09 5:56 pm
just another reason why people leave the field
file
Jul 15, 09 6:03 pm
isn't this the forum where there's always a group of posters who gripe incessantly that there are too many architects and NCARB and AIA ought to take steps to restrict the supply?
so now that it's getting tougher (or, at least more expensive) because some lazy jackasses tried to cheat on the exam, another group here is complaining because there are higher hurdles being put in place.
I love the diversity of thought inherent in this profession
binary
Jul 15, 09 8:10 pm
sometimes the 'ladder' system in the field doesn't work for everyone.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jul 15, 09 8:11 pm
file, same site. more people leaving the field? good.
Janosh
Jul 15, 09 8:47 pm
I'm going to have to start looking at our intern's salaries - obviously NCARB thinks they are too highly compensated.
liberty bell
Jul 16, 09 9:23 am
Dear NCARB: Please go after snack food companies who use the label Chief Flavor Architect for their chefs before attacking the young in our own legitimate profession who are sharing knowledge in the tradition of internship and mentoring..
Thanks.
vado retro
Jul 16, 09 9:34 am
sites like areforum make it possible for those studying for the are who live in smaller cities and guess what, towns, to develop a community to support them through the process. I'd like to know exactly what was given away by the candidates. Did they actually post, Oh I can't believe they asked XXXX. or Why did they ask so much about XXXX when the exam was about YYYY? The tests cover so much potential ground that it is impossible to study for them without that kind of network. signed Super Flava Architect.
Dapper Napper
Jul 16, 09 9:59 am
$210 is quite a bit more than I just paid for my last exam, $102, which I'm still waiting on results for three weeks later. Maybe they'll think about grading faster if they're getting extra cash.
Please please please let me be done with this exam.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jul 16, 09 10:06 am
vignettes and specific structural questions may be the issue here, they seem harder to change once the tests hit the streets. imagine how much work goes into planning an exam, it's a lot more work than anyone can possibly imagine from first glance.
liberty bell
Jul 16, 09 10:48 am
NCARB: Chief Architects of...oh god, wait..I don't want to make fun of them, I might find my file mysteriously "lost".
Dapper Napper
Jul 16, 09 5:00 pm
NCARB can suck it...cuz the Dapper Napper is done!!!!!!
jbc
Jul 19, 09 12:56 pm
Brudgers has a look at something else that may be driving the increase in fees: escalating pay for the NCARB executives.
On the other hand, I have noticed that NCARB customer service sucks a lot less of late. Perhaps these high paid fat cats are worth it?
binary
Jul 19, 09 4:49 pm
give it 2 months and i bet the service will be back to 'normal'
987654321
Jul 19, 09 11:22 pm
I am disgusted.
At a time when many of us are underemployed or unemployed they raise exam fees and their own salaries to absurd levels.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jul 20, 09 8:10 am
brudgers is a lame tool that rushes to conspiracy theories. how many candidates are taking the ARE's? there would have to be a number. multiply that number by the increase and you'll most likely find that the increase has nothing to do with those salary numbers.
aquapura
Jul 20, 09 8:36 am
Wow, that new $210 fee is quite a jump from the $102 & $155 I spent. Sure glad I'm done with that crap.
Honestly I'm not sure why anyone needs ARE Forum to tell them how to pass the exams. They aren't that tough, honestly. Sucks that the idiots in this profession screwed everyone over and got the fees raised. Then again I bet the fees would be raised regardless and the ARE Forum is a good excuse.
Interesting what NCARB people are getting paid. Maybe I should send in my resume. I could handle that salary.
simples
Jul 20, 09 8:21 pm
$1470 on fees (if you pass all exams the first time), per candidate seems high for a standardized test...
the poor timing for the increase is testimony to the lack of sensitivity from NCARB.
aquapura
Jul 21, 09 8:25 am
The old fees were just shy of $1200, right? $1470 doesn't sound too crazy. I just keep forgetting that the new exam is only seven sections long. Still is expensive compared to other license exams, i.e. insurance, real estate, engineering, etc. Even LEED isn't too bad considering it's only one exam. What surprises me more than the price of the ARE is how many firms are unwilling to reimburse for the cost of the exam. Employer contributions towards professional development are common place and the ARE seems like the ultimate professional development if you ask me.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jul 21, 09 8:58 am
aqua, 350 for LEED is a bit much, especially when you consider that now you need to have worked on a LEED project before you can become accredited. i decided to let the specialists have that one, and stay to myself, admiring from afar...
BlueGoose
Jul 21, 09 9:03 am
aqua: while I recognize this is a somewhat contentious issue, the problem some firms have with paying for the costs of an employee's licensure exam is the fact that the license is a personal credential -- it benefits the firm only so long as the employee remains with the firm, yet the employee benefits from it for the remainder of his/her career.
in a world where the average tenure of individual employees tends to be short, there is little incentive for firms to carry this expense. I've also heard some firm owners suggest that a license, like a university degree, is fundamental to becoming a professional. Firms typically don't pay for employee degrees -- why should they pay for employee licenses?
now, having said that, our firm does make a contribution to the cost of an employee earning a license -- we don't pay the full amount, but the contribution is quite significant. we make these payments with the understanding that if the employee leaves the firm voluntarily within a certain period of time, the firm will receive a pro-rated reimbursement of our contribution. we also pay the annual dues for all of our licensed professionals.
stone
Jul 21, 09 9:23 am
Since it's been quite a while since I obtained my license, I have to say I'm shocked at the current cost of the ARE. This thread caused me to wonder what it costs to obtain professional credentials in other fields, so I did a few google searches. This is what I found:
These examples all are for NY state:
. CPA Exam: $944
. Bar Exam: $250
. PE Exam: $345
. Medical Exam: $450, with another $325 for each additional specialty
Not sure I fully understand why our exam need be so much more expensive. I'm pretty sure the body of knowledge we must master is not greater than that required of medical doctors.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jul 21, 09 10:35 am
Bar exam is for that state only. the ARE's are "generally" recognized across the country.
Blugoose, i'll go one step further; there is actually a disincentive to having more licensed individuals on staff, for each licensed person, the AIA charges firms a fee, even if those who are licensed are not members.
4arch
Jul 21, 09 10:39 am
But that disincentive is made up in some part by the fact that firms can bill licensed people out at higher rates than unlicensed people without paying the licensed significantly more than the unlicensed.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jul 21, 09 10:46 am
...of course if they are billing.
simples
Jul 21, 09 12:05 pm
"for each licensed person, the AIA charges firms a fee, even if those who are licensed are not members"
i did not know that...just curious - what is the intention of such fee?
stone
Jul 21, 09 12:17 pm
beta / simples: the AIA discontinued "supplemental dues" beginning with 2009 -- they no longer charge that extra fee for licensed architects who are not members of AIA.
I believe the original purpose of supplemental dues was to help fund AIA activities that benefited the entire profession, such as the contract documents. it was a controversial charge for a long time and the Board - either last year or the year before - decided to eliminate the charge.
simples
Jul 21, 09 12:23 pm
thanks for the info, stone!
from where i sit, i can only see benefits from an office having more registered staff...
BlueGoose
Jul 21, 09 12:24 pm
b3tadine[sutures]: you may be correct about the bar exam having applicability for only one state - I'm not all that familiar with how attorneys practice.
however, while I've never seen specific data to support this contention, I believe the vast majority of licensed architects hold only one license for the majority of their careers. those who do hold licenses in multiple jurisdictions tend to be principals of firms who operate in multiple states. I think this premium tied to "portability" is not altogether a good value for most of us...and, I say that having held NCARB certification for 30 years. It's still a major challenge to obtain reciprocity in many jurisdictions - esp. CA.
I believe the CPA number I quoted above was for an exam that is fairly standardized across many, if not most, states here in the US.
4arch
Jul 21, 09 1:21 pm
Many states require NCARB certification now for reciprocity. NCARB requires either an annual maintenance fee or payment of a reactivation fee plus all back annual fees to transmit your record to another state. So that's another $1k minimum (and it can go much higher if you let your fees lapse long enough) you have to add to the cost of the exam for true portability.
+i
Jul 21, 09 2:12 pm
thanks stone for posting the other professional exam costs- i was wondering myself what those were. and all of those professions give their employees perks- such as bonuses- for passing their "personal" professional credentials. so why should architecture firms be any different?!
and i have worked in 4 different architecture firms of varying sizes (from 4 person firms to international office)- while i don't have some crazy amount of experience- i have to say that in all four of those firms i have been encouraged on many occaisions by my bosses to get licensed. i think the incentive for staff to get licensed is because they would be more independent- and don't need someone else monitoring closely all work.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jul 21, 09 2:15 pm
stone, they may have discontinued the fee, but i am sure it has more to do with the economic malaise and not due to any serious course correction. you can be sure when the market tilts the other way, that fee will be back. now, if they can just let me pay month by month next year, we're all square.
stone
Jul 21, 09 3:53 pm
beta: actually, the members of AIA, at their 2008 national convention, voted to amend the by-laws of the Institute to eliminate supplemental dues at the national level beginning in 2009. this decision was taken long before the economy went south, so such dues are not likely to reappear unless the members themselved so decide in the future.
however, components of AIA below the national level still have the authority to impose supplemental dues on their own members at the state and local level. my own local components have not done this -- but, I'm aware of several state and/or local components around the country that have continued supplemental dues.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jul 21, 09 5:02 pm
thanks stone, it seems that the issue got more play nationally than i realized.
aquapura
Jul 22, 09 8:56 am
BlueGoose - I recognice that passing the ARE is a personal credential but it also legitimizes your skills. If a firm bills more or not it's a marketing tool that is exploited. All my employers past and present have encouraged me to get licensed and soon as I did it was communicated quite vocally to clients I communicate with as a reassurance of my skills.
Now I can't complain too much about the exam costs as I was reimbursed by my employer 100% for exams passed. Also given a small bonus upon completion. Large pay raise and/or promotion have not occured. However I am not an AIA member because that is not employer paid nor is my state registration. These are recurring fees that over time would dwarf the cost of the the ARE.
In better times I'd probably just suck it up and pay the AIA dues but given the fact that my hours have been cut with pay going down accordingly it's just too much right now. I feel really bad for unemployed friends that are shelling out big $$$ for AIA conventions just to keep up on continuing ed credits to keep their license.
Phillip Crosby
Jul 22, 09 10:06 am
beta, you're correct that the bar exam is only good for the original state, however most states give reciprocity to each other after you've practiced for 5 years in the original state... that is unless you are originally barred in a state like florida which doesn't give reciprocity to anyone, thus no one gives reciprocity to them...
Dapper Napper
Jul 23, 09 12:37 pm
Aqua, your friends should try doing the CE articles in architectural record. That's how one of my new coworkers kept up with her units when she worked in a smaller firm that did not have as many continuing ed opportunities.
asd
Jul 31, 09 10:55 pm
If y'all want to do something about the fee increase try signing this petition. Maybe it might help...
Interesting to read back through this thread in light of ARE 5.0 coming soon and the new exam fees that will be implemented for that. After an initial period where the exam fees will be the same per division ($210) they will be increased to $235 per division in July 2018. This, despite the increase per division, will be a whole $10 cheaper for the total fees than it is currently because of one less division in ARE 5.0.
Add to that- if you were clever you could hybridize your test taking, some 4.0 / some 5.0, you could complete in 5 tests for even more of a savings
BulgarBlogger
Sep 13, 15 10:19 am
Why dont you people just quit yoir bitchin'. "NCARB suck," "the examas are too hard," "the exams are too expensive," "why do we even need the exams, getting licensed is overrated..." All of you skeptics and complainers are a bunch of losers who can find any and all reason want your cake and eat it too. Just suck it the fuck up and go through it like everyone else. Getting it easy and cheap just makes it worthless, not just on architecture but in anything you do in life. You all are a bunch of entitled brats.
JeromeS
Sep 13, 15 1:46 pm
Hey bulgar- who the hell are you talking to? The only comments made since '09 are by me and Everyday and neither is complaining about anything.
BulgarBlogger
Sep 13, 15 2:05 pm
I was respnding to the OP and anyone and everyone else who keeps on complaining about NCARB and about the licensing process. There are lots of threads on here about that. Funny how people just deal with and are willing to get themselves into thousands of dollars in debt to graduate from architecture school but bitch about the exam fees and the apprenticeship period. Appernetly architects are the biggest bitches of all...
June 2009
NCARB Announces ARE Security and Development Fee
Washington, DC—The National Council of Architectural Registration Boards (NCARB) will increase the fees for the Architect Registration Examination® (ARE®) by $40 per division effective 1 October 2009. The increase, which was announced today at the NCARB Annual Meeting and Conference in Chicago, is due to recent incidents of exam content disclosure by ARE candidates. The cost to develop and replace the exposed content and handle the administrative and legal costs related to these incidents totals an estimated $1.1 million.
“The decision to raise the exam fees now—especially in the current economic climate—was not made lightly,” said Gordon E. Mills, FAIA, President. “However, NCARB’s responsibility to uphold the integrity of the ARE is our first and foremost concern.”
The ARE is designed to protect the health, safety, and welfare of the public by providing a psychometrically justifiable and legally defensible process that measures the level of competence necessary to practice architecture independently. In recent months, NCARB has had to turn off substantial amounts of content after several candidates posted detailed exam content on the internet. These candidates have had their exam scores canceled and testing privileges suspended for up to five years. To ensure the integrity of the exam, NCARB has been forced to add two full-time staff members to monitor and investigate exam disclosures and copyright violations.
Replacing exam content is expensive and time consuming because each vignette or multiple-choice item must be written, reviewed, edited, and thoroughly pre-tested before it is added to the exam. The process of developing replacement content will take two years and the involvement of many volunteer professionals. The current six-month waiting period between failed divisions is in effect to ensure that a candidate does not see the same question twice. If ARE candidates continue to breach the Confidentiality Agreement they accept to prior to taking each division and additional exam content is exposed, NCARB may be forced to extend the mandatory waiting period in order to prevent overexposure of content.
Since NCARB produced the first national exam for architects in 1965, the cost of delivering the test has been heavily subsidized by other NCARB programs. Since the ARE was computerized in 1997, NCARB has subsidized more than $15 million in exam-related expenses.While the new fee structure will help offset the costs incurred as a result of exam disclosure, it still falls short of the actual cost of developing and administering the exam and monitoring its security.
The current version of the ARE is comprised of seven divisions that test a candidate’s knowledge, skills, and abilities to perform many of the tasks an architect encounters in practice. To become licensed, candidates must fulfill education and experience requirements, as well as pass all divisions of the ARE.
The new rate of $210 per division will take effect on 1 October 2009. All exams scheduled on or after 1 October 2009 will be at the new rate. Prior to 1 October 2009, candidates can schedule future exam appointments through 31 December 2009 at the current rate of $170 per division.
http://www.ncarb.com/newsclips/2009/jun09_2.html
So just because someone screws up at the ARE for using the same questions since 1997, we have to pay for the legal costs?!!
come on d00d. i've seen, exact word for word questions, exact descriptions of vignettes, at the areforum. those short cutting a-holes have screwed everyone else, they are always outed. if got a gripe send them an email.
oh, thank goodness i am done with that exam.
wow that's a big jump in fees - i think they were $110-$135 back in the olden days when i took 'em.
thank goodness i am done with that exam.
but i had to pass 9 exams versus the 7 exams required now .. so it's not too much more i suppose.
Good timing ncarb!
just another reason why people leave the field
isn't this the forum where there's always a group of posters who gripe incessantly that there are too many architects and NCARB and AIA ought to take steps to restrict the supply?
so now that it's getting tougher (or, at least more expensive) because some lazy jackasses tried to cheat on the exam, another group here is complaining because there are higher hurdles being put in place.
I love the diversity of thought inherent in this profession
sometimes the 'ladder' system in the field doesn't work for everyone.
file, same site. more people leaving the field? good.
I'm going to have to start looking at our intern's salaries - obviously NCARB thinks they are too highly compensated.
Dear NCARB: Please go after snack food companies who use the label Chief Flavor Architect for their chefs before attacking the young in our own legitimate profession who are sharing knowledge in the tradition of internship and mentoring..
Thanks.
sites like areforum make it possible for those studying for the are who live in smaller cities and guess what, towns, to develop a community to support them through the process. I'd like to know exactly what was given away by the candidates. Did they actually post, Oh I can't believe they asked XXXX. or Why did they ask so much about XXXX when the exam was about YYYY? The tests cover so much potential ground that it is impossible to study for them without that kind of network. signed Super Flava Architect.
$210 is quite a bit more than I just paid for my last exam, $102, which I'm still waiting on results for three weeks later. Maybe they'll think about grading faster if they're getting extra cash.
Please please please let me be done with this exam.
vignettes and specific structural questions may be the issue here, they seem harder to change once the tests hit the streets. imagine how much work goes into planning an exam, it's a lot more work than anyone can possibly imagine from first glance.
NCARB: Chief Architects of...oh god, wait..I don't want to make fun of them, I might find my file mysteriously "lost".
NCARB can suck it...cuz the Dapper Napper is done!!!!!!
Brudgers has a look at something else that may be driving the increase in fees: escalating pay for the NCARB executives.
http://blog.arefaq.com/?p=54
On the other hand, I have noticed that NCARB customer service sucks a lot less of late. Perhaps these high paid fat cats are worth it?
give it 2 months and i bet the service will be back to 'normal'
I am disgusted.
At a time when many of us are underemployed or unemployed they raise exam fees and their own salaries to absurd levels.
brudgers is a lame tool that rushes to conspiracy theories. how many candidates are taking the ARE's? there would have to be a number. multiply that number by the increase and you'll most likely find that the increase has nothing to do with those salary numbers.
Wow, that new $210 fee is quite a jump from the $102 & $155 I spent. Sure glad I'm done with that crap.
Honestly I'm not sure why anyone needs ARE Forum to tell them how to pass the exams. They aren't that tough, honestly. Sucks that the idiots in this profession screwed everyone over and got the fees raised. Then again I bet the fees would be raised regardless and the ARE Forum is a good excuse.
Interesting what NCARB people are getting paid. Maybe I should send in my resume. I could handle that salary.
$1470 on fees (if you pass all exams the first time), per candidate seems high for a standardized test...
the poor timing for the increase is testimony to the lack of sensitivity from NCARB.
The old fees were just shy of $1200, right? $1470 doesn't sound too crazy. I just keep forgetting that the new exam is only seven sections long. Still is expensive compared to other license exams, i.e. insurance, real estate, engineering, etc. Even LEED isn't too bad considering it's only one exam. What surprises me more than the price of the ARE is how many firms are unwilling to reimburse for the cost of the exam. Employer contributions towards professional development are common place and the ARE seems like the ultimate professional development if you ask me.
aqua, 350 for LEED is a bit much, especially when you consider that now you need to have worked on a LEED project before you can become accredited. i decided to let the specialists have that one, and stay to myself, admiring from afar...
aqua: while I recognize this is a somewhat contentious issue, the problem some firms have with paying for the costs of an employee's licensure exam is the fact that the license is a personal credential -- it benefits the firm only so long as the employee remains with the firm, yet the employee benefits from it for the remainder of his/her career.
in a world where the average tenure of individual employees tends to be short, there is little incentive for firms to carry this expense. I've also heard some firm owners suggest that a license, like a university degree, is fundamental to becoming a professional. Firms typically don't pay for employee degrees -- why should they pay for employee licenses?
now, having said that, our firm does make a contribution to the cost of an employee earning a license -- we don't pay the full amount, but the contribution is quite significant. we make these payments with the understanding that if the employee leaves the firm voluntarily within a certain period of time, the firm will receive a pro-rated reimbursement of our contribution. we also pay the annual dues for all of our licensed professionals.
Since it's been quite a while since I obtained my license, I have to say I'm shocked at the current cost of the ARE. This thread caused me to wonder what it costs to obtain professional credentials in other fields, so I did a few google searches. This is what I found:
These examples all are for NY state:
. CPA Exam: $944
. Bar Exam: $250
. PE Exam: $345
. Medical Exam: $450, with another $325 for each additional specialty
Not sure I fully understand why our exam need be so much more expensive. I'm pretty sure the body of knowledge we must master is not greater than that required of medical doctors.
Bar exam is for that state only. the ARE's are "generally" recognized across the country.
Blugoose, i'll go one step further; there is actually a disincentive to having more licensed individuals on staff, for each licensed person, the AIA charges firms a fee, even if those who are licensed are not members.
But that disincentive is made up in some part by the fact that firms can bill licensed people out at higher rates than unlicensed people without paying the licensed significantly more than the unlicensed.
...of course if they are billing.
"for each licensed person, the AIA charges firms a fee, even if those who are licensed are not members"
i did not know that...just curious - what is the intention of such fee?
beta / simples: the AIA discontinued "supplemental dues" beginning with 2009 -- they no longer charge that extra fee for licensed architects who are not members of AIA.
I believe the original purpose of supplemental dues was to help fund AIA activities that benefited the entire profession, such as the contract documents. it was a controversial charge for a long time and the Board - either last year or the year before - decided to eliminate the charge.
thanks for the info, stone!
from where i sit, i can only see benefits from an office having more registered staff...
b3tadine[sutures]: you may be correct about the bar exam having applicability for only one state - I'm not all that familiar with how attorneys practice.
however, while I've never seen specific data to support this contention, I believe the vast majority of licensed architects hold only one license for the majority of their careers. those who do hold licenses in multiple jurisdictions tend to be principals of firms who operate in multiple states. I think this premium tied to "portability" is not altogether a good value for most of us...and, I say that having held NCARB certification for 30 years. It's still a major challenge to obtain reciprocity in many jurisdictions - esp. CA.
I believe the CPA number I quoted above was for an exam that is fairly standardized across many, if not most, states here in the US.
Many states require NCARB certification now for reciprocity. NCARB requires either an annual maintenance fee or payment of a reactivation fee plus all back annual fees to transmit your record to another state. So that's another $1k minimum (and it can go much higher if you let your fees lapse long enough) you have to add to the cost of the exam for true portability.
thanks stone for posting the other professional exam costs- i was wondering myself what those were. and all of those professions give their employees perks- such as bonuses- for passing their "personal" professional credentials. so why should architecture firms be any different?!
and i have worked in 4 different architecture firms of varying sizes (from 4 person firms to international office)- while i don't have some crazy amount of experience- i have to say that in all four of those firms i have been encouraged on many occaisions by my bosses to get licensed. i think the incentive for staff to get licensed is because they would be more independent- and don't need someone else monitoring closely all work.
stone, they may have discontinued the fee, but i am sure it has more to do with the economic malaise and not due to any serious course correction. you can be sure when the market tilts the other way, that fee will be back. now, if they can just let me pay month by month next year, we're all square.
beta: actually, the members of AIA, at their 2008 national convention, voted to amend the by-laws of the Institute to eliminate supplemental dues at the national level beginning in 2009. this decision was taken long before the economy went south, so such dues are not likely to reappear unless the members themselved so decide in the future.
however, components of AIA below the national level still have the authority to impose supplemental dues on their own members at the state and local level. my own local components have not done this -- but, I'm aware of several state and/or local components around the country that have continued supplemental dues.
thanks stone, it seems that the issue got more play nationally than i realized.
BlueGoose - I recognice that passing the ARE is a personal credential but it also legitimizes your skills. If a firm bills more or not it's a marketing tool that is exploited. All my employers past and present have encouraged me to get licensed and soon as I did it was communicated quite vocally to clients I communicate with as a reassurance of my skills.
Now I can't complain too much about the exam costs as I was reimbursed by my employer 100% for exams passed. Also given a small bonus upon completion. Large pay raise and/or promotion have not occured. However I am not an AIA member because that is not employer paid nor is my state registration. These are recurring fees that over time would dwarf the cost of the the ARE.
In better times I'd probably just suck it up and pay the AIA dues but given the fact that my hours have been cut with pay going down accordingly it's just too much right now. I feel really bad for unemployed friends that are shelling out big $$$ for AIA conventions just to keep up on continuing ed credits to keep their license.
beta, you're correct that the bar exam is only good for the original state, however most states give reciprocity to each other after you've practiced for 5 years in the original state... that is unless you are originally barred in a state like florida which doesn't give reciprocity to anyone, thus no one gives reciprocity to them...
Aqua, your friends should try doing the CE articles in architectural record. That's how one of my new coworkers kept up with her units when she worked in a smaller firm that did not have as many continuing ed opportunities.
If y'all want to do something about the fee increase try signing this petition. Maybe it might help...
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/architectural-economy
Interesting to read back through this thread in light of ARE 5.0 coming soon and the new exam fees that will be implemented for that. After an initial period where the exam fees will be the same per division ($210) they will be increased to $235 per division in July 2018. This, despite the increase per division, will be a whole $10 cheaper for the total fees than it is currently because of one less division in ARE 5.0.
http://www.ncarb.org/News-and-Events/News/2015/July-2016Fees.aspx
Add to that- if you were clever you could hybridize your test taking, some 4.0 / some 5.0, you could complete in 5 tests for even more of a savings
Why dont you people just quit yoir bitchin'. "NCARB suck," "the examas are too hard," "the exams are too expensive," "why do we even need the exams, getting licensed is overrated..." All of you skeptics and complainers are a bunch of losers who can find any and all reason want your cake and eat it too. Just suck it the fuck up and go through it like everyone else. Getting it easy and cheap just makes it worthless, not just on architecture but in anything you do in life. You all are a bunch of entitled brats.
Hey bulgar- who the hell are you talking to? The only comments made since '09 are by me and Everyday and neither is complaining about anything.
I was respnding to the OP and anyone and everyone else who keeps on complaining about NCARB and about the licensing process. There are lots of threads on here about that. Funny how people just deal with and are willing to get themselves into thousands of dollars in debt to graduate from architecture school but bitch about the exam fees and the apprenticeship period. Appernetly architects are the biggest bitches of all...