My undergraduate degree is in Environmental Science, so I'm leaning towards a more design-focused grad program (to balance out my knowledge/experience). I have little drawing experience, and a fair amount of software experience (Adobe CS, GIS) and consider myself a pretty fast learner when it comes to computers. That makes me think that a program with a good drawing education might give me the most bang for my buck (though I realize most people seem to say the field is headed in a computer-centric direction).
I've lived in the SF Bay Area my whole life, so I'm tempted to avoid Berkeley and try somewhere else for a while. Both the UT and UW programs appeal to me (emphasis on sustainability, interesting class topics, possibility of international experiences with UW), but I've also been told by some landscape architect co-wokers (I work for a big architecture firm) that the Harvard name means a ton.
I'm totally undecided on my opinion of Harvard, but am a bit put-off by the we-will-break-you vibe I sometimes get from their materials/people's description of the program.
Of course I'm still waiting to hear from more than half the schools, so I may be getting ahead of myself, but I have to decide by April 15, so I want to get a jump on all this.
Wow, long post! Anyway, thank you so much for your time/insights!
danielmiller19
Mar 26, 09 5:11 pm
glasgow - i'm glad you posted it. i still haven't heard anything from them. mail already came today with no word.
I got an email from Oregon apologizing for not sending anything out sooner and that they were "overwhelmed" with applications, but they're in the mail today.
I think I'm leaning towards Berkeley...
fleuron
Mar 26, 09 5:37 pm
anyone going to UVa open house?
orbital2000
Mar 26, 09 6:05 pm
For those who are still waiting for UPenn and GSD:
Received today from GSD admissions via email:
"All decision letters were either mailed yesterday or will be mailed today, so you should receive something soon. Thank you for your patience as we complete this long yet very important process."
Received yesterday from PennDesign admissions via email:
"Yes, all were mailed out last week. I can't tell you the decision now by e-mail, but if you do not receive the letter by April 7th, please contact us again."
Is there still hope, or are these outstanding letters ALL rejections?
danielmiller19
Mar 26, 09 6:21 pm
orbital - the best these outstanding letters can bring is most likely a "wait-list" opportunity, which to me helps none.
orbital2000
Mar 26, 09 6:42 pm
daniel-
you got into Penn, right? MLA II?
danielmiller19
Mar 26, 09 7:50 pm
No, i actually didn't apply for some reason...can't really come up with a reason why I chose not to.
My girlfriend applied and got in...so I'm speaking vicariously through her.
dontlookback
Mar 26, 09 8:51 pm
Glasgow - I was definitely appreciative of your information about GSD letters. I like to know what's really happening out there instead of letting my brain work through several possibilities and what-ifs. Hope you didn't think otherwise. I did not receive anything mail or email today but I am definitely prepared for a No at this point. It is a lot better to be gently let down over the course of a week and a half...then to get a flat NO out of the blue. I do feel like I've learned a lot in the last few weeks and the ride has been valuable.
No clue where/who I'll be when I get done in three years, I'm just taking it one step at a time so I can't begin to imagine if I'll come back to Portland after school. Definitely will be on my radar as there are some people doing and opportunities to do unique things here. I do wonder if I'd have followed the LA path if I hadn't of moved here
Orb- I received a rejection letter from Penn on Monday (West Coast). I don't know what that means overall but it may be good news if you have yet to hear??
I didn't get the GSD email but I did get Chad's UO email today...I can't imagine what its like to go through the number they get in a normal year. The letter really reaffirmed my feelings about this year being heavy and personally feeling super lucky to have some options.
DLB
orbital2000
Mar 26, 09 8:57 pm
dontlookback-
I'm in NYC, so I would think that the Penn letter would have reached me by now. Admissions says they mailed everything on Friday? What makes you think that it could be good news that I haven't heard? Maybe they are filling final slots and I'm still in the mix???
dontlookback
Mar 26, 09 9:23 pm
That's what I was thinking...but all I'm saying is my 2 cents about what I got in the mail, and when. I wouldn't read into it too hard. If I've learned anything from these last few weeks is don't think things through too much because every school does everything different and there are several possibilities.
Falon
Mar 26, 09 9:49 pm
I got my letter from Penn (wait listed) on Monday, the 23rd. I'm in Chicago. The letter was dated March 19th. I called today to ask about my wait list status. I was told that they have not ranked folks on the list, but they will after April 15th.
glasgow
Mar 27, 09 4:57 pm
Hey all, no hard feelings here. Just hate to pass on what is presumably bad news regarding the GSD, especially to kids who probably worked their ass off on applications.
I'm happy with my choices, but am having a hell of a time putting the nail in the coffin to make a final decision. I'm trying to visit UW before Penn, but UW is on spring break and the department won't open until next week. Frustrating at it feels like the clock is ticking and all I want to do is check out the program. Feels like they're making me jump through some hoops when in reality I'm just impatient and would like to get my shi*t taken care of sooner rather than later.
Alas, looks like I'm the lone archinecter considering UW.
I'm declining UOregon despite the nice award money. I'm interested in urban ecological design and cultural placemaking, and unfortunately the *urban* component is missing from their excellent program (imho). For anyone on the wait list for UO, a spot is about to open up...
mongoose
Mar 27, 09 6:39 pm
Hello, new to forum. How is the GSD for people interested in ecological/horticultural aspects of landscape architecture? Although it is not Harards forte, are they still relatively exceptional in more bio-science oriented applications?
atenbrin
Mar 27, 09 6:57 pm
While the GSD has not be rhetorically interested in the types of ecological discussions happening at Penn and Berkeley (Berk. I don't really have much knowledge of), they do have (I think) excellent faculty offering extremely informed views. In addition to professors like Richard Forman, there has been for some time a wide range of permanent and visiting faculty who specialize in both broad and specific "ecology" related fields. In terms of horticulture Peter del Tredici offers excellent courses. Student have full access to Arnold Arboretum and the resources therein.
From my experience, outside of courses offered dealing with the sciences, and there are many, studios can have a good deal of interaction incorporating sciences to the students desire.
I would suggest taking a look at the course listings for this past year to see if the offerings are what you are looking for. Like any school, you would have full access to any of the other schools for collaboration. (http://www.gsd.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/courses/index.cgi)
This past year my reading of GSD ideology has grown to be fairly open and diverse. Their goal is to flood you with information, from what I've seen there are not GSD specific ideas because there is such a wide range of experts available.
treekiller
Mar 27, 09 7:08 pm
the U of MN was flooded with the MLA acceptees today- the two I talked too seemed as bright and inquisitive as the folks I went to school with at penn. If anybody has any Q's about life in Rapson hall, let me know.
cowerd
Mar 27, 09 9:56 pm
tk missed you at rapson. hope the kim chee fest went well.
those capstone kids are going to kill me.
treekiller
Mar 27, 09 10:20 pm
c-
I've been avoiding all invites to individual mid-reviews for capstone folks. too much herding cats to find slots - makes my head spin.
I made my command appearance for K's 2nd year studio + a bunch of other classes for a conversation about ecology/infrastructure/social justice/ shrinking cities/the economy/certification systems and superannuated greenroofs that leak. Good time was had by all.
had a good chat with lance about teaching next fall. interesting opportunities to consider.
the kimchi was good.
cowerd
Mar 27, 09 11:36 pm
tk
big meta discussions on studio. things are going to happen for the better. i have to get smarter fast.
mongoose
Mar 28, 09 2:55 am
Wondering why no one seems to mention LSU, which seems to have a very well ranked (affordable) MLA program. Is it the seeming disconnect with the architecture department ?
Also what is the opinion of the SUNY Syracuse MLA program. I heard they do not "show up" as well in the rankings, because a large majority of students do more public service, government work. (lDesign Intelligence-references more private firms)
fleuron
Mar 28, 09 11:18 am
mongoose - i applied to the SUNY program and still haven't heard from them with a decision. once i started getting into my top choices, i kind of stopped caring though and didn't even bother to call. they lost my GRE scores twice and i'm thinking they never even reviewed my application.
but to your question, i applied initially because a) i'm in new york and it would be really cheap for me and b) i wanted to apply to both science oriented and design oriented schools and see where i landed with acceptances and be able to make a choice between the two directions. and SUNY seemed directed towards environmental science, ecology, etc.
parkgirl
Mar 29, 09 10:38 am
hi everyone -
Glasgow - I'm also considering U of Washington, so I'd love to hear what you think after your visit. I really wish I could go out there, but I don't think I'll get a chance in the next two weeks. I'm basically deciding between there and UVa, though I got a lot of money from SUNY-ESF, so it's a hard call.
fleuron - I would call SUNY if I was you - I got their letter a few weeks ago. I'll also be at the UVa open house tomorrow, so I'll see you there.
mongoose
Mar 29, 09 6:27 pm
This post presents a personal MLA dilema, so skip it to read more generally applicable posts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
In dire need for rational, objective advice. My story short;
older (potential) MLA student for fall 09, mid 30s,
already have 115 k debt !! from MFA '05 degree, (huge mistake); no debt for biosci BS, Undergrad.
Worked for a few years in entertainment industry extending from MFA contacts; somewhat low pay even if high profile work- hated it; the climate, culture, etc.
I've done some Land Arch classes, events, journal reading, research etc- The field embodies everything I am interested in (bio sci applications to design), or may have any aptitude for. This interest compensates for low salary relative to skill required)
applied to various MLA programs
GSD-offered about 2/3 tuition aid
Syracuse-full tuition (also back nearer family)
LSU-? aid not determined yet,
(Cornell, Umass-no aid, so no go)
"Aid" must = No Loans (see "foolish MFA=115k debt").
Am I crazy to even consider this field? Tried to tell family about the MLA pursuit, but considered then an even greater "irresponsible failure" by going to school AGAIN at my age and debt level, for a 35-40k. But they are right?; even though, I am completely financially independent of them and have been since undergrad; no other personal /social commitments.
Of course there is no real answer to this, only opinion. FAQ, how are GSD grads received and maybe "cost compensated" for in professional practice. How are grads from the SUNY Syracuse program received professionally?
gardenx
Mar 29, 09 6:48 pm
Mongoose -
I can tell you as a practitioner that Harvard graduates are not given additional consideration when applying for a job with us. That said, many (maybe all) have excellent portfolios, are sharp thinkers, speak well in public, and have interesting design ideas. I think most, if not all, have no trouble finding employment.
My experience with pay is that we cannot offer them enough money to compensate for their student loan debt, thus many times we pass. Many go on to larger corporate offices where the pay is better (we are a small boutique practice that runs on slim margins). When we hire, we are looking for drafting help (short term) not rock star designers. We know that most people right out of college do not stay at one firm for the rest of their lives and we keep that in mind to some extent. I know some other small offices that have hired GSD graduates.
You are in an interesting position. 2/3 paid Harvard education? I would probably take it. How old are you?
mongoose
Mar 30, 09 7:59 am
gardenx,
thank you for your input. I am late 37. But again, 115k in debt from MFA ending '05 (had been training for certain work that may have paid it off with but industry changed that.)
danielmiller19
Mar 30, 09 4:41 pm
Finally received my official no's from GSD and UOregon today. At this point, being the end of March, I got the results I expected...so I'm not really as disappointed as I would have been had I received these...say, March 10th. If anything, it's a relief. No I can knowingly move forward with RISD and Berkeley and have a concrete decision here shortly.
gardenx
Mar 30, 09 4:42 pm
Mongoose -
You're just a kid then...plenty of time to make back all that money! I'm 38 and in a somewhat similar situation; less debt, but still uneasy about the perceived risks of taking the plunge. Getting accepted to the GSD is a real honor and would be difficult to pass up. Given the amount of money they are giving you I would probably just go for it if I were you.
Look at it this way: if the economy improves and you work your way into owning your own business some day you could make back 115k in a year potentially. I say go...go...go! Do some good. Do something you will enjoy.
danielmiller19
Mar 30, 09 4:47 pm
Mongoose - people live and die with debt. It's one of those facets of life that I guess you just have to weigh the importance of. I mean, 115k + the debts of grad. school will be a lot, but you only live once.
Why risk spending the rest of your life possibly regretting a decision you didn't make? It's just me, and I'm not in the situation of looking at $165k of debt...but I'd rather work my ass off trying to make money because "I regrettably went to GSD" rather than being 55 and thinking "...hmm, what if I had gone to Harvard?"
gardenx
Mar 30, 09 5:37 pm
Daniel -
Have you decided where you are going? Are you the person with an undergrad in LA and 8 years experience or am I thinking of someone else?
danielmiller19
Mar 30, 09 5:48 pm
Gardenx -
Must be someone else. I'm the person with an undergrad in LA and 2+ years experience.
I haven't yet notified either school of my decision yet, but am starting to figure things out...and things will become much more clear now that I can focus on two certain schools instead of the..."what if so-and-so still says yes??"
I'm really intrigued by the faculty and the program at RISD. Having aspirations as a photographer as well, I know I can take art classes from top-notch photo instructors. I have a friend there now who loves it and highly recommends it. But, it is considerably more expensive, probably $120k in loans for 2 years if you include living expenses and what not.
As for Berkeley, I've been admitted for the 1yr Urban Design program, which would be really exciting. It'd give me a new perspective on design working with LAs, Archs and planners all in the same class. It's an awesome school in an awesome city with some really great faculty. (If there was a professional currently in the field I'd most like to model my own career after it would be Walter Hood...and he's a hands-on professor at Berkeley...) And with the in-state savings I can pursue photography on my own dime, right?
gardenx
Mar 30, 09 6:00 pm
I have a friend who did the Urban Design program there (UC) about...wow, maybe 10 years ago now. I think many of the same faculty are there. Anyway, he loved the program. He came to it from an L Arch background. Best of luck to you. You have two great programs to choose from.
mongoose
Mar 30, 09 6:21 pm
danielmiller19,
hi. thank you for your support. I have lived in Los Angeles for 12 years; and people I know from Berkeley really liked it (but were not necessarily from arch programs). After you were so supportive, I feel like jerk saying this: Ca has alarmingly state budget conditions; shown by, IOUs for tax refunds, borrowing against future lottery revenues and other ed cuts etc- pojecting crisis for 5-10 years. Its all they talk about here.
So try to verify you can lock in a lower tuition rate asap maybe if you go. Im sure even with the budget issues Berkeley will be great.
mongoose
Mar 30, 09 6:26 pm
dm19- I meant Ca's position even relative to dire national economic issues
danielmiller19
Mar 30, 09 6:29 pm
mongoose - thanks for the input, but I don't think it will affect me too much.
I live in CA as well, and the state in fact did issue me a tax return not an IOU and the program is only 1 year, so any possible tuition hikes would not affect me.
glasgow
Apr 3, 09 12:26 am
parkgirl—I'm heading up to UW tomorrow. I'll provide a brief run down of the visit here.
I had hoped to make it out to the Penn open house on Monday, but my plans had to change. I know quite a few of you are attending. Please provide some thoughts on your visit. Thanks.
plattenbau
Apr 8, 09 10:04 am
Just finished reading this informative thread. I've been accepted to UVa's MLA and Penn's dual MLA/MARCH program. I was at UVa for a BS in Architecture so I feel fairly confident in my knowledge about that program--probably saw some of y'all at the open house--but I do have a few questions about Penn.
1) Will simultaneously pursuing a MARCH degree water down my MLA education? I have a pretty specific interest that will be well nourished by the dual degree but fear I may miss out on some electives that would also help me refine/focus my research/work.
2) How is the group chemistry within various years? (I suppose this is somewhat dependent on student body...)
3) At Monday's open house, one prospective asked about representational homogeneity. While each of the projects pinned up had a unique underlying thought process and design, the plans, "multi-matrices" & perspectives all had a similar aesthetic... maybe even the "Field Operation" aesthetic. Is this symbolic of a general will of the students to fall in line and please their master? Are other representational methodologies me with resistance?
I think that's about it... thank you much!
fleuron
Apr 8, 09 7:20 pm
I am having a hell of a time deciding between UVa and Harvard. I like the faculty, facilities and atmosphere at UVa but am lured by Harvard's resources and diversity. Do I go with small and focused, where i'll have a ton of contact with faculty? Or big and unfocused where I won't have much contact with faculty, but will exposed to more breadth? Am I a city mouse or a country mouse? Any input?
atenbrin
Apr 8, 09 7:37 pm
fleuron... i hope you didn't get the impression from a visit that you won't get much contact with faculty at harvard. my experience here has been very positive with faculty and their availability. They are willing and eager to work with students inside the studio environments as well as outside independent research projects.
Cambridge doesn't have that big of a feel, anyway you won't leave the building much so i won't matter :-)
anti
Apr 11, 09 1:35 pm
sent in tuition deposit for GSD, Ill see some of you there this fall.
treekiller
Apr 11, 09 6:45 pm
platten-
upenn for mla/march will blow your socks off. you already got the best of charlottesville as an undergrad.
fleuron- your choices are between a three star buffet with too many choices, and a three star prix fix meal. (there are many more employment choices in new england too). so good luck deciding where you'll thrive.
double0707
Apr 13, 09 9:20 am
Fleuron- hey, I'm also struggling with a Harvard decision but have excluded other schools because they incurred greater costs (grants, asstships etc considered). Part of me fears huge regret if passing on the Harvard offer, even though I'm more interested in hort-bio-ecological applications, and want to work in a smaller, exprmtl boutique-style firms. Harvard, I'd gathered, was better suited for an urban planning focus and eventual work in larger, high profile firms/projects-well thats not really so. Anyway, Harvard faculty, staff and students were all friendly, engaging, and seemed sincerely happy there; but the gsd to me feels kind of over whelming and offers soooo much. I am not sure about utilizing the inexhaustive resources when I am just learning the basics (for mla1). Does the name recognition really help people like me who do not excel at self promotion but may one day want to be independent practitioners? Can someone give me their take on the U of Toronto program and how it compares to the Harvard program?
ldaye
Apr 13, 09 2:19 pm
glad to hear all the interest in MLA's this year... as i remember last years convos were limited to a few.
forgive me for being so behind...i've only skimmed through your previous posts. i have a BLA from clemson u. and i am now enrolled at berkeley for mla II.
its a little late, but for those still considering berkeley... it is a great location with a lot of resources. The faculty for the most part is good and they'll give you the attention you need if you have any problems or concerns about where your heading. Like most state schools they're focused in environmental studies, as opposed to Penn and Harvard... they tend to have a better hold on the theory aspect.
my only critique is that the 3yr(MLA I) is a far better set up than the 2yr(MLA II). my first studio was with some(envir. planning) students that have NEVER had any studio background. i found myself coaching ADOBE, ACAD and repeating classes that i have already had. it seemed counterproductive for someone with a BLA. There are ways around this of course... they're very reasonable about changing your course schedule so that you are able to take classes/studio in urban, arch, planning, art, ect for the MLA II. I should mention that there are only two people enrolled in Berkeley's MLA II out of four(or 6? i forget) that were admitted last year. so its easy to understand the lack of attention they give to the post pros. there are a lot of opportunities to be a graduate assistant to some of studios, tech classes ect. which is always a plus financially.
last year i was waitlisted to harvard and then rejected... and i didn't apply to penn. i think that i would have leaned towards harvard because i have aspirations to teach, and i'm from the boston area which would have alleviated some of the tuition burden. other than that i'm pretty happy about berkeley.
if you have any questions... feel free to email me about berkeley.
congrats and good luck to all
fleuron
Apr 14, 09 5:04 pm
i've decided on uva, in case anyone on the MLA I waitlist for gsd or penn cares. i had no idea that deciding would be the hardest part of the whole application process.
glasgow
Apr 14, 09 5:22 pm
Agreed about the difficulty of the decision process. I'm only 27, but my age and where I am in life seemed to make a huge difference (responsibilities, funding etc)—I think I would have decided differently even just a few years ago. Tuition costs for even a lower middle income kid didn't seem as large right out of undergrad.
I ended up throwing my hat into the UW ring for a dual MUP/MLA l degree. I was dedicing between Penn, UOregon, and waitlists at GSD and UBC. Strangely enough, many of the UW professors I spoke with received their MLAs from Penn.
Didn't seem like many others got in/were considering UW. If you're out there, feel free to email to talk about the program and what not. ::]
gardenx
Apr 15, 09 12:17 am
Fleuron - what put you over the edge with uva? I've heard the student work there is really outstanding, perhaps even a little stronger than harvard's.
treekiller
Apr 15, 09 11:00 am
glasgow - that's the key observation about where profs got their education, a majority of profs in LA programs around the world are from Penn or the gsd. Not to say that folks from other schools don't have a shot at teaching gigs, but there's something in the water in philly and cambridge. Is it theory or design? maybe it's the alumni connections. I not sure, but I'm taking advantage of the opportunity to teach that Penn helped me get.
glasgow
Apr 15, 09 12:27 pm
treekiller - you're teaching at UMN, right? I know of a few Portland LAs who graduated there and loved it. Is that program more science-oriented? Good luck!
Regarding my decision, I had several long conversations with various professors who attended penn and current students who went to penn then transferred to UW or just chose UW over penn outright. There are more than a few of us out there, as crazy as it sounds to reject an ivy. I also spoke with several penn alumni.
Needless to say, my decision was carefully researched and not just a product of worrying about $$ or rankings. I think if you want to teach or work under a STARchitect, then ivy's the way to go. Alas, that's not my intended path. I'm interested in working for small firms that balance great design with smart cultural placemaking. The firms I'm interested in tend not too pay the huge salaries that are needed to pay off an ivy size debt. I'm stoked to attend UW and stay in the PAC NW—the MUP/MLA urban design specialization really is the best fit for me and my current situation.
Hope everyone feels good about his or her decision. Those two and a half weeks were incredibly rough!
Today is the deadline for a lot programs: Anyone else make a final decision?
danielmiller19
Apr 15, 09 12:41 pm
glasgow - made my final decision to go with Berkeley.
I didn't have the nerve racking decision to make between any ivy's, but it was tough to pick between Berkeley's Urban Design program and RISD's MLA program.
Even though I couldn't find anything negative about RISD, other than maybe the cost, I just felt that Berkeley was a better fit for me personally.
glasgow
Apr 15, 09 12:52 pm
danielmiller- Congratulations, that's excellent. Both programs are insanely cool, so I can understand the difficulty of riddling out a decision.
UC-Berkely's MUD program is supposed to be really excellent. I'm thinking about applying to the 1 year MUD sometime soon after UW. It would be cool to hear reports about your experience there. Are you planning on having a blog while you're there?
Good luck!
danielmiller19
Apr 15, 09 1:27 pm
glasgow...thanks on the kind remarks. Same goes for you. UW was something I was really tempted to apply for, but at some point had to draw a line in the sand and limit the number of schools I applied for...and ultimately decided against it. I've heard nothing but great reviews about the program and the faculty though, and Jeff Hou is supposed to be pretty great...from what I hear.
Gutsy going with your desire, and not just "what you're supposed to do," going with UW instead of just instantly jumping onto Penn's offer. I kinda feel I did the same thing with Berkeley and RISD...where the alumni list at RISD is really quite impressive, but like you said earlier and I can't say it any better," I'm interested in working for small firms that balance great design and cultural placemaking, not necessarily a STARchitect."
I fully intend to run a blog while I'm there. I've actually begun doing the legwork now...it'll be a x/365 type of blog, which will run a daily thought, idea, event, occurance, etc...along with a photograph that may or may not be related. It'll be a way to force me to continue shooting daily and keep friends, family, loved ones, and others up to date with my going's on. What about you?
I'll definitely fill you in on any of the other intricacies of the program as they unfold...
treekiller
Apr 15, 09 1:27 pm
UMN is shifting from an eco-regional program that was heavy into the boreal forests/prairies to landscape urbanism/sustainable landscapes that covers more of the world. My role will be teaching 3 of the sustainability lectures/seminars. I intend to cover everything from climate change, to terraforming, infrastructure, habitat creation, urban farming, and more for the grad seminar.
fleuron
Apr 15, 09 2:13 pm
treekiller - you should come visit us UVA, what you're teaching sounds right up my alley, especially the urban farming piece.
gardenx - though i really liked penn, i had to rule it out b/c of cost. i ended up choosing between harvard and uva. it was really hard, but i'm going with uva for a variety of complicated reasons... some too personal to post here.
curriculum wise, i'll be doing a dual MLA/MUEP (urban and environmental planning) and at UVA they are doing work in urban agriculture / food policy which is my background and I want to continue with that. The charlottesville thing was tough for me, but I'm originally from the south, so it's not such a shock to the system. and i'll probably end up back in new york or philly for internships and work after school anyway.
i was also attracted to the collaboration that happens between arch and larch there as well as the teaching /research opportunities and close relationships with faculty. they use work study hours for ra's, ta's, etc.
in the end, i felt like i'd have a more personal experience at uva and just be a part of the machine at gsd.
Hello all!
New poster, long-time reader. I applied for MLA programs for this coming fall, and am trying to figure out how to actually make my decision.
I applied to:
-GSD (haven't heard)
-UW (haven't heard)
-RISD (haven't heard)
-Berkeley (haven't heard)
-UT Austin (accepted)
-U Mich (accepted)
-UBC (accepted)
My undergraduate degree is in Environmental Science, so I'm leaning towards a more design-focused grad program (to balance out my knowledge/experience). I have little drawing experience, and a fair amount of software experience (Adobe CS, GIS) and consider myself a pretty fast learner when it comes to computers. That makes me think that a program with a good drawing education might give me the most bang for my buck (though I realize most people seem to say the field is headed in a computer-centric direction).
I've lived in the SF Bay Area my whole life, so I'm tempted to avoid Berkeley and try somewhere else for a while. Both the UT and UW programs appeal to me (emphasis on sustainability, interesting class topics, possibility of international experiences with UW), but I've also been told by some landscape architect co-wokers (I work for a big architecture firm) that the Harvard name means a ton.
I'm totally undecided on my opinion of Harvard, but am a bit put-off by the we-will-break-you vibe I sometimes get from their materials/people's description of the program.
Of course I'm still waiting to hear from more than half the schools, so I may be getting ahead of myself, but I have to decide by April 15, so I want to get a jump on all this.
Wow, long post! Anyway, thank you so much for your time/insights!
glasgow - i'm glad you posted it. i still haven't heard anything from them. mail already came today with no word.
I got an email from Oregon apologizing for not sending anything out sooner and that they were "overwhelmed" with applications, but they're in the mail today.
I think I'm leaning towards Berkeley...
anyone going to UVa open house?
For those who are still waiting for UPenn and GSD:
Received today from GSD admissions via email:
"All decision letters were either mailed yesterday or will be mailed today, so you should receive something soon. Thank you for your patience as we complete this long yet very important process."
Received yesterday from PennDesign admissions via email:
"Yes, all were mailed out last week. I can't tell you the decision now by e-mail, but if you do not receive the letter by April 7th, please contact us again."
Is there still hope, or are these outstanding letters ALL rejections?
orbital - the best these outstanding letters can bring is most likely a "wait-list" opportunity, which to me helps none.
daniel-
you got into Penn, right? MLA II?
No, i actually didn't apply for some reason...can't really come up with a reason why I chose not to.
My girlfriend applied and got in...so I'm speaking vicariously through her.
Glasgow - I was definitely appreciative of your information about GSD letters. I like to know what's really happening out there instead of letting my brain work through several possibilities and what-ifs. Hope you didn't think otherwise. I did not receive anything mail or email today but I am definitely prepared for a No at this point. It is a lot better to be gently let down over the course of a week and a half...then to get a flat NO out of the blue. I do feel like I've learned a lot in the last few weeks and the ride has been valuable.
No clue where/who I'll be when I get done in three years, I'm just taking it one step at a time so I can't begin to imagine if I'll come back to Portland after school. Definitely will be on my radar as there are some people doing and opportunities to do unique things here. I do wonder if I'd have followed the LA path if I hadn't of moved here
Orb- I received a rejection letter from Penn on Monday (West Coast). I don't know what that means overall but it may be good news if you have yet to hear??
I didn't get the GSD email but I did get Chad's UO email today...I can't imagine what its like to go through the number they get in a normal year. The letter really reaffirmed my feelings about this year being heavy and personally feeling super lucky to have some options.
DLB
dontlookback-
I'm in NYC, so I would think that the Penn letter would have reached me by now. Admissions says they mailed everything on Friday? What makes you think that it could be good news that I haven't heard? Maybe they are filling final slots and I'm still in the mix???
That's what I was thinking...but all I'm saying is my 2 cents about what I got in the mail, and when. I wouldn't read into it too hard. If I've learned anything from these last few weeks is don't think things through too much because every school does everything different and there are several possibilities.
I got my letter from Penn (wait listed) on Monday, the 23rd. I'm in Chicago. The letter was dated March 19th. I called today to ask about my wait list status. I was told that they have not ranked folks on the list, but they will after April 15th.
Hey all, no hard feelings here. Just hate to pass on what is presumably bad news regarding the GSD, especially to kids who probably worked their ass off on applications.
I'm happy with my choices, but am having a hell of a time putting the nail in the coffin to make a final decision. I'm trying to visit UW before Penn, but UW is on spring break and the department won't open until next week. Frustrating at it feels like the clock is ticking and all I want to do is check out the program. Feels like they're making me jump through some hoops when in reality I'm just impatient and would like to get my shi*t taken care of sooner rather than later.
Alas, looks like I'm the lone archinecter considering UW.
I'm declining UOregon despite the nice award money. I'm interested in urban ecological design and cultural placemaking, and unfortunately the *urban* component is missing from their excellent program (imho). For anyone on the wait list for UO, a spot is about to open up...
Hello, new to forum. How is the GSD for people interested in ecological/horticultural aspects of landscape architecture? Although it is not Harards forte, are they still relatively exceptional in more bio-science oriented applications?
While the GSD has not be rhetorically interested in the types of ecological discussions happening at Penn and Berkeley (Berk. I don't really have much knowledge of), they do have (I think) excellent faculty offering extremely informed views. In addition to professors like Richard Forman, there has been for some time a wide range of permanent and visiting faculty who specialize in both broad and specific "ecology" related fields. In terms of horticulture Peter del Tredici offers excellent courses. Student have full access to Arnold Arboretum and the resources therein.
From my experience, outside of courses offered dealing with the sciences, and there are many, studios can have a good deal of interaction incorporating sciences to the students desire.
I would suggest taking a look at the course listings for this past year to see if the offerings are what you are looking for. Like any school, you would have full access to any of the other schools for collaboration. (http://www.gsd.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/courses/index.cgi)
This past year my reading of GSD ideology has grown to be fairly open and diverse. Their goal is to flood you with information, from what I've seen there are not GSD specific ideas because there is such a wide range of experts available.
the U of MN was flooded with the MLA acceptees today- the two I talked too seemed as bright and inquisitive as the folks I went to school with at penn. If anybody has any Q's about life in Rapson hall, let me know.
tk missed you at rapson. hope the kim chee fest went well.
those capstone kids are going to kill me.
c-
I've been avoiding all invites to individual mid-reviews for capstone folks. too much herding cats to find slots - makes my head spin.
I made my command appearance for K's 2nd year studio + a bunch of other classes for a conversation about ecology/infrastructure/social justice/ shrinking cities/the economy/certification systems and superannuated greenroofs that leak. Good time was had by all.
had a good chat with lance about teaching next fall. interesting opportunities to consider.
the kimchi was good.
tk
big meta discussions on studio. things are going to happen for the better. i have to get smarter fast.
Wondering why no one seems to mention LSU, which seems to have a very well ranked (affordable) MLA program. Is it the seeming disconnect with the architecture department ?
Also what is the opinion of the SUNY Syracuse MLA program. I heard they do not "show up" as well in the rankings, because a large majority of students do more public service, government work. (lDesign Intelligence-references more private firms)
mongoose - i applied to the SUNY program and still haven't heard from them with a decision. once i started getting into my top choices, i kind of stopped caring though and didn't even bother to call. they lost my GRE scores twice and i'm thinking they never even reviewed my application.
but to your question, i applied initially because a) i'm in new york and it would be really cheap for me and b) i wanted to apply to both science oriented and design oriented schools and see where i landed with acceptances and be able to make a choice between the two directions. and SUNY seemed directed towards environmental science, ecology, etc.
hi everyone -
Glasgow - I'm also considering U of Washington, so I'd love to hear what you think after your visit. I really wish I could go out there, but I don't think I'll get a chance in the next two weeks. I'm basically deciding between there and UVa, though I got a lot of money from SUNY-ESF, so it's a hard call.
fleuron - I would call SUNY if I was you - I got their letter a few weeks ago. I'll also be at the UVa open house tomorrow, so I'll see you there.
This post presents a personal MLA dilema, so skip it to read more generally applicable posts.
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In dire need for rational, objective advice. My story short;
older (potential) MLA student for fall 09, mid 30s,
already have 115 k debt !! from MFA '05 degree, (huge mistake); no debt for biosci BS, Undergrad.
Worked for a few years in entertainment industry extending from MFA contacts; somewhat low pay even if high profile work- hated it; the climate, culture, etc.
I've done some Land Arch classes, events, journal reading, research etc- The field embodies everything I am interested in (bio sci applications to design), or may have any aptitude for. This interest compensates for low salary relative to skill required)
applied to various MLA programs
GSD-offered about 2/3 tuition aid
Syracuse-full tuition (also back nearer family)
LSU-? aid not determined yet,
(Cornell, Umass-no aid, so no go)
"Aid" must = No Loans (see "foolish MFA=115k debt").
Am I crazy to even consider this field? Tried to tell family about the MLA pursuit, but considered then an even greater "irresponsible failure" by going to school AGAIN at my age and debt level, for a 35-40k. But they are right?; even though, I am completely financially independent of them and have been since undergrad; no other personal /social commitments.
Of course there is no real answer to this, only opinion. FAQ, how are GSD grads received and maybe "cost compensated" for in professional practice. How are grads from the SUNY Syracuse program received professionally?
Mongoose -
I can tell you as a practitioner that Harvard graduates are not given additional consideration when applying for a job with us. That said, many (maybe all) have excellent portfolios, are sharp thinkers, speak well in public, and have interesting design ideas. I think most, if not all, have no trouble finding employment.
My experience with pay is that we cannot offer them enough money to compensate for their student loan debt, thus many times we pass. Many go on to larger corporate offices where the pay is better (we are a small boutique practice that runs on slim margins). When we hire, we are looking for drafting help (short term) not rock star designers. We know that most people right out of college do not stay at one firm for the rest of their lives and we keep that in mind to some extent. I know some other small offices that have hired GSD graduates.
You are in an interesting position. 2/3 paid Harvard education? I would probably take it. How old are you?
gardenx,
thank you for your input. I am late 37. But again, 115k in debt from MFA ending '05 (had been training for certain work that may have paid it off with but industry changed that.)
Finally received my official no's from GSD and UOregon today. At this point, being the end of March, I got the results I expected...so I'm not really as disappointed as I would have been had I received these...say, March 10th. If anything, it's a relief. No I can knowingly move forward with RISD and Berkeley and have a concrete decision here shortly.
Mongoose -
You're just a kid then...plenty of time to make back all that money! I'm 38 and in a somewhat similar situation; less debt, but still uneasy about the perceived risks of taking the plunge. Getting accepted to the GSD is a real honor and would be difficult to pass up. Given the amount of money they are giving you I would probably just go for it if I were you.
Look at it this way: if the economy improves and you work your way into owning your own business some day you could make back 115k in a year potentially. I say go...go...go! Do some good. Do something you will enjoy.
Mongoose - people live and die with debt. It's one of those facets of life that I guess you just have to weigh the importance of. I mean, 115k + the debts of grad. school will be a lot, but you only live once.
Why risk spending the rest of your life possibly regretting a decision you didn't make? It's just me, and I'm not in the situation of looking at $165k of debt...but I'd rather work my ass off trying to make money because "I regrettably went to GSD" rather than being 55 and thinking "...hmm, what if I had gone to Harvard?"
Daniel -
Have you decided where you are going? Are you the person with an undergrad in LA and 8 years experience or am I thinking of someone else?
Gardenx -
Must be someone else. I'm the person with an undergrad in LA and 2+ years experience.
I haven't yet notified either school of my decision yet, but am starting to figure things out...and things will become much more clear now that I can focus on two certain schools instead of the..."what if so-and-so still says yes??"
I'm really intrigued by the faculty and the program at RISD. Having aspirations as a photographer as well, I know I can take art classes from top-notch photo instructors. I have a friend there now who loves it and highly recommends it. But, it is considerably more expensive, probably $120k in loans for 2 years if you include living expenses and what not.
As for Berkeley, I've been admitted for the 1yr Urban Design program, which would be really exciting. It'd give me a new perspective on design working with LAs, Archs and planners all in the same class. It's an awesome school in an awesome city with some really great faculty. (If there was a professional currently in the field I'd most like to model my own career after it would be Walter Hood...and he's a hands-on professor at Berkeley...) And with the in-state savings I can pursue photography on my own dime, right?
I have a friend who did the Urban Design program there (UC) about...wow, maybe 10 years ago now. I think many of the same faculty are there. Anyway, he loved the program. He came to it from an L Arch background. Best of luck to you. You have two great programs to choose from.
danielmiller19,
hi. thank you for your support. I have lived in Los Angeles for 12 years; and people I know from Berkeley really liked it (but were not necessarily from arch programs). After you were so supportive, I feel like jerk saying this: Ca has alarmingly state budget conditions; shown by, IOUs for tax refunds, borrowing against future lottery revenues and other ed cuts etc- pojecting crisis for 5-10 years. Its all they talk about here.
So try to verify you can lock in a lower tuition rate asap maybe if you go. Im sure even with the budget issues Berkeley will be great.
dm19- I meant Ca's position even relative to dire national economic issues
mongoose - thanks for the input, but I don't think it will affect me too much.
I live in CA as well, and the state in fact did issue me a tax return not an IOU and the program is only 1 year, so any possible tuition hikes would not affect me.
parkgirl—I'm heading up to UW tomorrow. I'll provide a brief run down of the visit here.
I had hoped to make it out to the Penn open house on Monday, but my plans had to change. I know quite a few of you are attending. Please provide some thoughts on your visit. Thanks.
Just finished reading this informative thread. I've been accepted to UVa's MLA and Penn's dual MLA/MARCH program. I was at UVa for a BS in Architecture so I feel fairly confident in my knowledge about that program--probably saw some of y'all at the open house--but I do have a few questions about Penn.
1) Will simultaneously pursuing a MARCH degree water down my MLA education? I have a pretty specific interest that will be well nourished by the dual degree but fear I may miss out on some electives that would also help me refine/focus my research/work.
2) How is the group chemistry within various years? (I suppose this is somewhat dependent on student body...)
3) At Monday's open house, one prospective asked about representational homogeneity. While each of the projects pinned up had a unique underlying thought process and design, the plans, "multi-matrices" & perspectives all had a similar aesthetic... maybe even the "Field Operation" aesthetic. Is this symbolic of a general will of the students to fall in line and please their master? Are other representational methodologies me with resistance?
I think that's about it... thank you much!
I am having a hell of a time deciding between UVa and Harvard. I like the faculty, facilities and atmosphere at UVa but am lured by Harvard's resources and diversity. Do I go with small and focused, where i'll have a ton of contact with faculty? Or big and unfocused where I won't have much contact with faculty, but will exposed to more breadth? Am I a city mouse or a country mouse? Any input?
fleuron... i hope you didn't get the impression from a visit that you won't get much contact with faculty at harvard. my experience here has been very positive with faculty and their availability. They are willing and eager to work with students inside the studio environments as well as outside independent research projects.
Cambridge doesn't have that big of a feel, anyway you won't leave the building much so i won't matter :-)
sent in tuition deposit for GSD, Ill see some of you there this fall.
platten-
upenn for mla/march will blow your socks off. you already got the best of charlottesville as an undergrad.
fleuron- your choices are between a three star buffet with too many choices, and a three star prix fix meal. (there are many more employment choices in new england too). so good luck deciding where you'll thrive.
Fleuron- hey, I'm also struggling with a Harvard decision but have excluded other schools because they incurred greater costs (grants, asstships etc considered). Part of me fears huge regret if passing on the Harvard offer, even though I'm more interested in hort-bio-ecological applications, and want to work in a smaller, exprmtl boutique-style firms. Harvard, I'd gathered, was better suited for an urban planning focus and eventual work in larger, high profile firms/projects-well thats not really so. Anyway, Harvard faculty, staff and students were all friendly, engaging, and seemed sincerely happy there; but the gsd to me feels kind of over whelming and offers soooo much. I am not sure about utilizing the inexhaustive resources when I am just learning the basics (for mla1). Does the name recognition really help people like me who do not excel at self promotion but may one day want to be independent practitioners? Can someone give me their take on the U of Toronto program and how it compares to the Harvard program?
glad to hear all the interest in MLA's this year... as i remember last years convos were limited to a few.
forgive me for being so behind...i've only skimmed through your previous posts. i have a BLA from clemson u. and i am now enrolled at berkeley for mla II.
its a little late, but for those still considering berkeley... it is a great location with a lot of resources. The faculty for the most part is good and they'll give you the attention you need if you have any problems or concerns about where your heading. Like most state schools they're focused in environmental studies, as opposed to Penn and Harvard... they tend to have a better hold on the theory aspect.
my only critique is that the 3yr(MLA I) is a far better set up than the 2yr(MLA II). my first studio was with some(envir. planning) students that have NEVER had any studio background. i found myself coaching ADOBE, ACAD and repeating classes that i have already had. it seemed counterproductive for someone with a BLA. There are ways around this of course... they're very reasonable about changing your course schedule so that you are able to take classes/studio in urban, arch, planning, art, ect for the MLA II. I should mention that there are only two people enrolled in Berkeley's MLA II out of four(or 6? i forget) that were admitted last year. so its easy to understand the lack of attention they give to the post pros. there are a lot of opportunities to be a graduate assistant to some of studios, tech classes ect. which is always a plus financially.
last year i was waitlisted to harvard and then rejected... and i didn't apply to penn. i think that i would have leaned towards harvard because i have aspirations to teach, and i'm from the boston area which would have alleviated some of the tuition burden. other than that i'm pretty happy about berkeley.
if you have any questions... feel free to email me about berkeley.
congrats and good luck to all
i've decided on uva, in case anyone on the MLA I waitlist for gsd or penn cares. i had no idea that deciding would be the hardest part of the whole application process.
Agreed about the difficulty of the decision process. I'm only 27, but my age and where I am in life seemed to make a huge difference (responsibilities, funding etc)—I think I would have decided differently even just a few years ago. Tuition costs for even a lower middle income kid didn't seem as large right out of undergrad.
I ended up throwing my hat into the UW ring for a dual MUP/MLA l degree. I was dedicing between Penn, UOregon, and waitlists at GSD and UBC. Strangely enough, many of the UW professors I spoke with received their MLAs from Penn.
Didn't seem like many others got in/were considering UW. If you're out there, feel free to email to talk about the program and what not. ::]
Fleuron - what put you over the edge with uva? I've heard the student work there is really outstanding, perhaps even a little stronger than harvard's.
glasgow - that's the key observation about where profs got their education, a majority of profs in LA programs around the world are from Penn or the gsd. Not to say that folks from other schools don't have a shot at teaching gigs, but there's something in the water in philly and cambridge. Is it theory or design? maybe it's the alumni connections. I not sure, but I'm taking advantage of the opportunity to teach that Penn helped me get.
treekiller - you're teaching at UMN, right? I know of a few Portland LAs who graduated there and loved it. Is that program more science-oriented? Good luck!
Regarding my decision, I had several long conversations with various professors who attended penn and current students who went to penn then transferred to UW or just chose UW over penn outright. There are more than a few of us out there, as crazy as it sounds to reject an ivy. I also spoke with several penn alumni.
Needless to say, my decision was carefully researched and not just a product of worrying about $$ or rankings. I think if you want to teach or work under a STARchitect, then ivy's the way to go. Alas, that's not my intended path. I'm interested in working for small firms that balance great design with smart cultural placemaking. The firms I'm interested in tend not too pay the huge salaries that are needed to pay off an ivy size debt. I'm stoked to attend UW and stay in the PAC NW—the MUP/MLA urban design specialization really is the best fit for me and my current situation.
Hope everyone feels good about his or her decision. Those two and a half weeks were incredibly rough!
Today is the deadline for a lot programs: Anyone else make a final decision?
glasgow - made my final decision to go with Berkeley.
I didn't have the nerve racking decision to make between any ivy's, but it was tough to pick between Berkeley's Urban Design program and RISD's MLA program.
Even though I couldn't find anything negative about RISD, other than maybe the cost, I just felt that Berkeley was a better fit for me personally.
danielmiller- Congratulations, that's excellent. Both programs are insanely cool, so I can understand the difficulty of riddling out a decision.
UC-Berkely's MUD program is supposed to be really excellent. I'm thinking about applying to the 1 year MUD sometime soon after UW. It would be cool to hear reports about your experience there. Are you planning on having a blog while you're there?
Good luck!
glasgow...thanks on the kind remarks. Same goes for you. UW was something I was really tempted to apply for, but at some point had to draw a line in the sand and limit the number of schools I applied for...and ultimately decided against it. I've heard nothing but great reviews about the program and the faculty though, and Jeff Hou is supposed to be pretty great...from what I hear.
Gutsy going with your desire, and not just "what you're supposed to do," going with UW instead of just instantly jumping onto Penn's offer. I kinda feel I did the same thing with Berkeley and RISD...where the alumni list at RISD is really quite impressive, but like you said earlier and I can't say it any better," I'm interested in working for small firms that balance great design and cultural placemaking, not necessarily a STARchitect."
I fully intend to run a blog while I'm there. I've actually begun doing the legwork now...it'll be a x/365 type of blog, which will run a daily thought, idea, event, occurance, etc...along with a photograph that may or may not be related. It'll be a way to force me to continue shooting daily and keep friends, family, loved ones, and others up to date with my going's on. What about you?
I'll definitely fill you in on any of the other intricacies of the program as they unfold...
UMN is shifting from an eco-regional program that was heavy into the boreal forests/prairies to landscape urbanism/sustainable landscapes that covers more of the world. My role will be teaching 3 of the sustainability lectures/seminars. I intend to cover everything from climate change, to terraforming, infrastructure, habitat creation, urban farming, and more for the grad seminar.
treekiller - you should come visit us UVA, what you're teaching sounds right up my alley, especially the urban farming piece.
gardenx - though i really liked penn, i had to rule it out b/c of cost. i ended up choosing between harvard and uva. it was really hard, but i'm going with uva for a variety of complicated reasons... some too personal to post here.
curriculum wise, i'll be doing a dual MLA/MUEP (urban and environmental planning) and at UVA they are doing work in urban agriculture / food policy which is my background and I want to continue with that. The charlottesville thing was tough for me, but I'm originally from the south, so it's not such a shock to the system. and i'll probably end up back in new york or philly for internships and work after school anyway.
i was also attracted to the collaboration that happens between arch and larch there as well as the teaching /research opportunities and close relationships with faculty. they use work study hours for ra's, ta's, etc.
in the end, i felt like i'd have a more personal experience at uva and just be a part of the machine at gsd.