Our country's current economic crisis really worries me.I don't know when this recession will end or if it will be permanent so I'd like to keep my options open and considering going to Europe for graduate school. I'm working on my 4 year BS in Architectural Technology, my aim was to graduate with a 4 year degree,get a job(actually I had a job but I got laid off) and after saving some money go back to school to finish the 5 year program but I'm currently unemployed. I can't find a job and I'm running out of money. The reason I want to go to Europe is that the schools there will be more affordable.I already have 25,000$ loans to pay back. My plan is,instead of waiting tables here in US I could go overseas for school and come back in like maybe 2 years and the economy will hopefully be better in here by that time. My question is a degree from a European school can be equal to a degree from an American university? Do I lose anything by studying/having an internship overseas? (I really like to travel)
n_
Feb 10, 09 12:29 pm
It is my understanding that a European masters will be difficult to transfer. It can be done and has been done, but the process to get done apparently takes years, is quite tedious and is risky because they might not accept the diploma.
Have you checked our friendly northern neighbor, Canada? They have numerous master programs that are accredited by NAAB. There fees are less expensive than US schools.
At the risk of hijacking this thread, this is a topic I have some interest in as well. I'm interested in eventually working in the UK for a while, with the possibility of making it permanent if I so choose. That said, I wouldn't want to rule out the possibility of becoming registered in the US.
I'm wondering which process would be more odious:
A) Trying to get an American M.Arch. degree accepted as equivalent to RIBA Part II in the UK, or
B) Getting a British M.Arch. degree accepted as a professional degree by NCARB.
Canadian M.Arch. programs are accredited by NAAB, but would they be looked at any differently by ARB in the UK?
n_
Feb 10, 09 12:50 pm
You would think that there is some sort of reciprocity with the CACB and the ARB because Canada is part of the British Commonwealth.
But what makes sense isn't always the case.
n_
Feb 10, 09 12:52 pm
*Their fees are less expensive than US schools.
That was an edit to my first post. The 'there/they're/their' misuse is one of my biggest grammar pet peeves so I needed to correct it.
cowgill
Feb 10, 09 12:59 pm
surely a masters from either the ETH or AA would be accepted by NAAB.
IamGray
Feb 10, 09 5:51 pm
^ If only it were that simple!
Generally, trying to get reciprocity is a huge pain in the neck, regardless of where you're coming from (or going to).
Hopefully things are on the upswing with the Canberra Accord though, which is aimed at easing the portability of architectural education between Canada, Australia, USA, China, and a few others.
Hopefully someone with more knowledge on the subject can chime in.
Interesting stuff... This is a positive development, although of course it doesn't appear to be binding yet. Maybe that will have changed by the time I'm ready to make a jump across the pond.
holz.box
Feb 10, 09 9:03 pm
i guess the question is...
what do you want to do after graduation?
do you want to go to school in europe and come back to the states and get licensed? that's not so easy (see reciprocity issues above)
if you want to go to school in europe, and then work in europe, it'd be more beneficial for that route.
or if you wanted to go to the [AA] or [ETH] and (hopefully) become a sh*t hot designer, move to the states and not give a flying f*ck about licensing, that would also be a bold move.
will galloway
Feb 10, 09 9:38 pm
holz gots it in one. if you wanna practice in USA with license you should do your education in usa. canada seems to be safe as well. a few of my classmates back in canada went on to work in usa no worries.
i believe cameron sinclair posted here once that his degree from bartlett was not recognised when he moved to states so he gave up with trying to get license.
don't trust me on that, but i think in general it is much more difficult to get accreditation from anywhere to the USA than the other way around. i know for example that a m.arch here in japan will not be recognised in usa because schools here are not accredited (teachers teach what they want - literally). europe would be easier, but wouldn't count on anything.
best bet is to check in with licensing people in state you plan o practice on return and hear them out. don't be surprised to hear things that make little sense.
Paradox
Feb 10, 09 10:08 pm
First of all thanks for all your responses. I want to work in US and not in Europe I mean although I love Europe I prefer US but in case the economy continues to be like this(I've been looking for jobs for 4 months now) for a long time I just want to have more options. I want to get licensed,eventually and if I'm going to pay a lot of money for education and put a lot of effort on my studies then I should be awarded with a degree which is accredited in US. I could go on and on ranting about the student loan system in America and how it enslaves and tricks people who want to have a better future but that is another topic. By the way I checked out NCARB site and found this information:
(This is for New York State)
Education
2 Is a professional degree from an NAAB-accredited program the primary means of satisfying your board's education requirement?
yes
2a
Will your board accept a professional degree from a CACB-accredited program and a CACB-certified professional degree from a Canadian university as alternative means of satisfying your education requirement?
yes
2b
Will your board accept an EESA evaluation of foreign education (as described in the NCARB Education Standard) as alternative means of satisfying your education requirement?
no
2c
Will your board accept experience as alternative means of satisfying your education requirement?
yes
If yes, how many years of acceptable experience are required with a:
i. Four-year pre-professional degree in architecture? 5 years
So if we look at item "2a" I guess a CACB-accredited degree should satisfy the requirement??? If it does then I'm definitely going to Canada.I'm a New York resident and want to stay and practice in NY. By the way forgive my ignorance but what is "AA" and "ETH"?
holz.box
Feb 10, 09 10:13 pm
aa = architecture association
eth = Eidgenössische Technische Hochschule
another understated school is mendrisio...
switch
Feb 11, 09 9:32 pm
ETH taught in German, no?
switch
Feb 11, 09 9:33 pm
^^ that should read *is* taught in German, still a poor sentence I know
holz.box
Feb 11, 09 11:58 pm
i tihnk yes, mostly. though almost everyone speaks english and there are english only studios. but don't quote me on that.
ichweiB
Feb 12, 09 12:45 pm
I think that is right. Greg Lynn taught at the ETH....die Angewandte in Vienna is taught in English...they have Diploma Studios and then Urban Strategies which is a post-graduate non professional Masters degree. I also believe Hernana Diaz Alonso is heading up another post grad program there as well...I'll have to ask some friends still there if that is right.
Bluesman7
Feb 13, 09 10:54 am
An even more important question I would ask is:
Is the European Economy doing any better?
Are they not being affected by any of this?
I'm not sure if their economy is doing as incredible as you may think.
rascuache
May 14, 09 4:23 pm
Is there any reason anyone with an MArch from a european school wouldn't be able to attend an MArch III program somewhere here in the states, to get an accredited degree? The only reason I can see why this would be difficult is academic resistance to admitting anyone for a second Masters, even if for one year.
Also, a question I have seen asked when searching around these forums, with no specific answers (forgive me if I overlooked a thread) and it seems this might be the thread to ask in.
Are there any European analogs to the American 3-year MArch 1 program? I am putting together a list of graduate programs to apply to for Fall '10 and I would love to put a couple european schools on that list, but I am going into this with a BA in Mathematics, although along with 6 years of work experience in architecture.
I'd love a solid, knowledgeable answer, I've been wondering for some time.
doc9933
Dec 7, 18 9:10 pm
Hi rascuache
I am exploring a similar question - did you find anything in your search?
Our country's current economic crisis really worries me.I don't know when this recession will end or if it will be permanent so I'd like to keep my options open and considering going to Europe for graduate school. I'm working on my 4 year BS in Architectural Technology, my aim was to graduate with a 4 year degree,get a job(actually I had a job but I got laid off) and after saving some money go back to school to finish the 5 year program but I'm currently unemployed. I can't find a job and I'm running out of money. The reason I want to go to Europe is that the schools there will be more affordable.I already have 25,000$ loans to pay back. My plan is,instead of waiting tables here in US I could go overseas for school and come back in like maybe 2 years and the economy will hopefully be better in here by that time. My question is a degree from a European school can be equal to a degree from an American university? Do I lose anything by studying/having an internship overseas? (I really like to travel)
It is my understanding that a European masters will be difficult to transfer. It can be done and has been done, but the process to get done apparently takes years, is quite tedious and is risky because they might not accept the diploma.
Have you checked our friendly northern neighbor, Canada? They have numerous master programs that are accredited by NAAB. There fees are less expensive than US schools.
Accredited Programs in Canada
At the risk of hijacking this thread, this is a topic I have some interest in as well. I'm interested in eventually working in the UK for a while, with the possibility of making it permanent if I so choose. That said, I wouldn't want to rule out the possibility of becoming registered in the US.
I'm wondering which process would be more odious:
A) Trying to get an American M.Arch. degree accepted as equivalent to RIBA Part II in the UK, or
B) Getting a British M.Arch. degree accepted as a professional degree by NCARB.
Canadian M.Arch. programs are accredited by NAAB, but would they be looked at any differently by ARB in the UK?
You would think that there is some sort of reciprocity with the CACB and the ARB because Canada is part of the British Commonwealth.
But what makes sense isn't always the case.
*Their fees are less expensive than US schools.
That was an edit to my first post. The 'there/they're/their' misuse is one of my biggest grammar pet peeves so I needed to correct it.
surely a masters from either the ETH or AA would be accepted by NAAB.
^ If only it were that simple!
Generally, trying to get reciprocity is a huge pain in the neck, regardless of where you're coming from (or going to).
Hopefully things are on the upswing with the Canberra Accord though, which is aimed at easing the portability of architectural education between Canada, Australia, USA, China, and a few others.
Hopefully someone with more knowledge on the subject can chime in.
Interesting stuff... This is a positive development, although of course it doesn't appear to be binding yet. Maybe that will have changed by the time I'm ready to make a jump across the pond.
i guess the question is...
what do you want to do after graduation?
do you want to go to school in europe and come back to the states and get licensed? that's not so easy (see reciprocity issues above)
if you want to go to school in europe, and then work in europe, it'd be more beneficial for that route.
or if you wanted to go to the [AA] or [ETH] and (hopefully) become a sh*t hot designer, move to the states and not give a flying f*ck about licensing, that would also be a bold move.
holz gots it in one. if you wanna practice in USA with license you should do your education in usa. canada seems to be safe as well. a few of my classmates back in canada went on to work in usa no worries.
i believe cameron sinclair posted here once that his degree from bartlett was not recognised when he moved to states so he gave up with trying to get license.
don't trust me on that, but i think in general it is much more difficult to get accreditation from anywhere to the USA than the other way around. i know for example that a m.arch here in japan will not be recognised in usa because schools here are not accredited (teachers teach what they want - literally). europe would be easier, but wouldn't count on anything.
best bet is to check in with licensing people in state you plan o practice on return and hear them out. don't be surprised to hear things that make little sense.
First of all thanks for all your responses. I want to work in US and not in Europe I mean although I love Europe I prefer US but in case the economy continues to be like this(I've been looking for jobs for 4 months now) for a long time I just want to have more options. I want to get licensed,eventually and if I'm going to pay a lot of money for education and put a lot of effort on my studies then I should be awarded with a degree which is accredited in US. I could go on and on ranting about the student loan system in America and how it enslaves and tricks people who want to have a better future but that is another topic. By the way I checked out NCARB site and found this information:
(This is for New York State)
Education
2 Is a professional degree from an NAAB-accredited program the primary means of satisfying your board's education requirement?
yes
2a
Will your board accept a professional degree from a CACB-accredited program and a CACB-certified professional degree from a Canadian university as alternative means of satisfying your education requirement?
yes
2b
Will your board accept an EESA evaluation of foreign education (as described in the NCARB Education Standard) as alternative means of satisfying your education requirement?
no
2c
Will your board accept experience as alternative means of satisfying your education requirement?
yes
If yes, how many years of acceptable experience are required with a:
i. Four-year pre-professional degree in architecture? 5 years
So if we look at item "2a" I guess a CACB-accredited degree should satisfy the requirement??? If it does then I'm definitely going to Canada.I'm a New York resident and want to stay and practice in NY. By the way forgive my ignorance but what is "AA" and "ETH"?
aa = architecture association
eth = Eidgenössische Technische Hochschule
another understated school is mendrisio...
ETH taught in German, no?
^^ that should read *is* taught in German, still a poor sentence I know
i tihnk yes, mostly. though almost everyone speaks english and there are english only studios. but don't quote me on that.
I think that is right. Greg Lynn taught at the ETH....die Angewandte in Vienna is taught in English...they have Diploma Studios and then Urban Strategies which is a post-graduate non professional Masters degree. I also believe Hernana Diaz Alonso is heading up another post grad program there as well...I'll have to ask some friends still there if that is right.
An even more important question I would ask is:
Is the European Economy doing any better?
Are they not being affected by any of this?
I'm not sure if their economy is doing as incredible as you may think.
Is there any reason anyone with an MArch from a european school wouldn't be able to attend an MArch III program somewhere here in the states, to get an accredited degree? The only reason I can see why this would be difficult is academic resistance to admitting anyone for a second Masters, even if for one year.
Also, a question I have seen asked when searching around these forums, with no specific answers (forgive me if I overlooked a thread) and it seems this might be the thread to ask in.
Are there any European analogs to the American 3-year MArch 1 program? I am putting together a list of graduate programs to apply to for Fall '10 and I would love to put a couple european schools on that list, but I am going into this with a BA in Mathematics, although along with 6 years of work experience in architecture.
I'd love a solid, knowledgeable answer, I've been wondering for some time.
Hi rascuache
I am exploring a similar question - did you find anything in your search?