I've seen mentions of severance pay in other threads but I thought I'd try to gather it all in one place.
The firm I work for is a tiny single-family residential firm and is offering 2 weeks severance. I've heard that one week per year of service (in my case 7 years) is standard but maybe this doesn't apply in architecture, especially at a time like this.
What has everyone's experience been? thanks.
b3tadine[sutures]
Dec 1, 08 1:52 pm
2 weeks is what i got, i had 2 years in, but i don't think it mattered.
Workshop B
Dec 1, 08 5:21 pm
I got two weeks, had only been there a year.
cadcroupier
Dec 1, 08 6:05 pm
Two weeks here as well...after a year and 8 months.
kanu
Dec 1, 08 7:31 pm
nothing. maybe a cardboard box for my stuff and payed out my unused vacation.
outed
Dec 1, 08 8:30 pm
guys - the reason you're being let go is that there is no money coming in. firms simply aren't going to roll out the cash like they would if they were laying you off for other reasons, and at other times.
2 weeks is pretty standard. be glad you're getting that.
cadcroupier
Dec 1, 08 9:49 pm
laru....i think everyone here who go 2 weeks is glad. The ones that didn't wish they did.
so maybe you missed the point?
chicagoarchitect
Dec 1, 08 10:02 pm
In Chicago most people don't get severance pay. SOM's "year of layoffs" in 1988, commencing at Valentine's Day and proceeding through the New Year cost hundreds of people their 24/7 jobs - all without severance pay. The older Associate Partners laid off that Thanksgiving (the infamous "Thanksgiving Massacre") even had to litigate to receive deferred compensation for their profit sharing points.
Other thing about the larger Chicago architectural offices, there are hardly any architects at the offices who are older than 60 but NOT a one of the handful of principals. We seem to consume architects in whole, because they seem to mostly vanish after 50.
Dec 1, 08 10:19 pm
So does architecture not typically follow the 1 week per year of service rule that a lot of other industries apparently use?
I've been the right-hand man at a small firm for 7 years and even brought in a large project so I'm hoping to get more than just 2 weeks.
So has anyone on this board gotten more than 2 weeks- especially those who have worked at a firm for several years?
beekay31
Dec 1, 08 11:40 pm
5-1/2 years worked, 2 weeks severance + cashed out 2 weeks vacation.
myLiebermeisterAGG
Dec 1, 08 11:43 pm
I was layed off 3 weeks ago here in SF Bay area, after 12 years with same firm. Bossman kept just 2 partners, 2 office staff and an ass kissing sycophant with no Architectural talent. In our group meeting (3) of us were given the details, he mentioned that our company manual stated 2 weeks severace, but he, in his genorosity was giving us a month pay.
Now of the other two people, one was employed there 3 years, and the other only 1 year, and he gave us 3 the same package. I was SO pissed off, so I got him alone and told him how I thought my package was a joke after 12 faithful years of service. He reminded me that the manual stated 2 weeks, I continued to pressure him, and strongly plead my case and demanded 3 months pay.
He was angered at my request for three months severance pay.
One hour later he stated that he is not HP or Apple, and cannot do things like big corps. I looked around the office, and admired how he likes to display some examples of his large collection of (25) vintage Porsche's in the office under lights like its a high end car lot.....
I decided that his pockets were much deeper than mine and continued to shoot for my goal, and whenever he cried poor, I would glance over at his Vintage Porsches parked INSIDE THE OFFICE!
He eventually gave me two months severance pay.
cadcroupier
Dec 1, 08 11:53 pm
Man thats crappy....I would've offered to take a cherry 356 off his hands...
binary
Dec 2, 08 12:18 am
are we talking real 1:1 porshe's or the scale model die cast porshe's
12 years is a long time... damn.....
Ms Beary
Dec 2, 08 8:45 am
the people we laid off didn't get anything except their vacation cashed out.
liberty bell
Dec 2, 08 8:53 am
Thanks for telling your story, Bone of Arch. Good for you standing firm; your situation definitely called for more consideration than typical.
This is why I will never be a successful "boss" - I'd be selling off my collection to keep paying employees; I have too much of a sense of needing to take care of people that far outweighs any cutthroat business sense. My old firm did this very well, which is why they tend to have extremely loyal employees.
madison55
Dec 2, 08 9:12 am
Here in Boston I can confirm one good design firm that used the # of years employed/week of severence pay.
Listening to the greed and lack of loyalty exhibited by principals in firms described above, I feel very fortunate to have received 14 weeks severence.
Good luck to all of you who are looking for the next challenge.
Veronica
Dec 2, 08 12:21 pm
The large corporate firm I worked at gives 2 weeks plus 1 day for every year worked as part of their standard policy.
starrchitect
Dec 2, 08 12:42 pm
At my last job, I got no severance whatsoever when being let go. As a result, I am still contemplating whether I should rat them out for using many copies of unlicensed software.
What do you guys think? Should I do it? It'd be a nice X-mas bonus for the company from me.
shellarchitect
Dec 2, 08 12:55 pm
note to self, keep vintage porsches in parking lot...
JonathanLivingston
Dec 2, 08 12:58 pm
^ I rickrolled the link to the company website in all of the the email signatures
merry chirstmas from me
liberty bell
Dec 2, 08 1:14 pm
The rickrolling is very funny, and certainly if a firm treats you unfairly it is tempting to get back at them.
But I encourage people who are contemplating revenge to be fair as well. If you've been treated like crap by a boss who isn't tightening his/her own belt, that's one thing (like BoneOfArch's horrid example above). But generally partners take salary cuts themselves and trim back as much overhead as possible before laying off staff. Laying people off is the absolute last thing they want to do, and if they have to, it's not fair (or professional) to screw things up for them on the way out.
Just be fair, is all, and take the high road if you have any question at all.
Needlebeam
Dec 2, 08 1:56 pm
I've been warned that I'll be laid off in a couple weeks, when my current project wraps up.
My firm (very small) has no severance pay policy and hasn't ever provided severance pay to anyone they've laid off in the past - but then again I have far more seniority than any of those people had. It would be nice if there were a severance package - but I think they feel that these last weeks that I'm being kept on to finish this project are a favor/benefit to me (I am the last of the staff to go.)
But I do have about 3 weeks of unused vacation & comp time that they are going to pay, so that will help.
I have a few interviews lined up.
Assuming one of those pans out and I can start a new job around the first of the year I won't come out any the worse financially.
Keeping my fingers crossed!
emaze
Dec 2, 08 2:59 pm
remember that (in most states) employers are REQUIRED by law to pay out your benifits (vacation, sick, comp time, etc.) upon termination. don't get hosed...
citizen
Dec 2, 08 3:08 pm
As to the revenge temptation:
Remember that local professions operate in a kind of "small world." If word gets around that you've pulled something (even above-board, legitimate whistleblowing) on your last employer, your next one may become very hard to find.
Burning bridges shouldn't be on the table unless you plan to leave the field permanently, in my opinon.
Needlebeam
Dec 2, 08 3:17 pm
"remember that (in most states) employers are REQUIRED by law to pay out your benifits (vacation, sick, comp time, etc.) upon termination. don't get hosed.."
This is true. However, employers aren't required to allow you to carry vacation over from year to year - or for that matter they're not even required to provide vacation in the first place. My firm has no written policy on any of this, so it would have been very easy for them to say that I can't carry over vacation (what I've got coming to me in banked time was mostly accumulated more than a year ago.)
And they're not required to provide comp time - especially to licensed professional staff - so I feel relatively fortunate to have been getting that all along.
In the absence of written policies, I feel relatively fortunate to be getting what I'm getting.
Antisthenes
Dec 2, 08 3:18 pm
more importantly what are you going to spend it on?
snook_dude
Dec 3, 08 1:11 pm
I'm a licensed Professional Slave! Come on....not required by law....
what a crock!
jbirl
Dec 3, 08 8:57 pm
no severence, but I got to work an extra 2.5 weeks. and I got most of my vacation I had left, and hopefully my meager profit sharing after 3.5 years.
jbirl
Dec 3, 08 8:57 pm
no severence, but I got to work an extra 2.5 weeks. and I got most of my vacation I had left, and hopefully my meager profit sharing after 3.5 years.
granafratz
Aug 31, 17 8:19 pm
here's a good one....
went on 80% pay this summer, I got off friday's but principals worked..
got laid off after 8 years, they told me i was getting 4 weeks severance, got home and realized it was at 80% pay rate, so it was really only 3 weeks!
I've seen mentions of severance pay in other threads but I thought I'd try to gather it all in one place.
The firm I work for is a tiny single-family residential firm and is offering 2 weeks severance. I've heard that one week per year of service (in my case 7 years) is standard but maybe this doesn't apply in architecture, especially at a time like this.
What has everyone's experience been? thanks.
2 weeks is what i got, i had 2 years in, but i don't think it mattered.
I got two weeks, had only been there a year.
Two weeks here as well...after a year and 8 months.
nothing. maybe a cardboard box for my stuff and payed out my unused vacation.
guys - the reason you're being let go is that there is no money coming in. firms simply aren't going to roll out the cash like they would if they were laying you off for other reasons, and at other times.
2 weeks is pretty standard. be glad you're getting that.
laru....i think everyone here who go 2 weeks is glad. The ones that didn't wish they did.
so maybe you missed the point?
In Chicago most people don't get severance pay. SOM's "year of layoffs" in 1988, commencing at Valentine's Day and proceeding through the New Year cost hundreds of people their 24/7 jobs - all without severance pay. The older Associate Partners laid off that Thanksgiving (the infamous "Thanksgiving Massacre") even had to litigate to receive deferred compensation for their profit sharing points.
Other thing about the larger Chicago architectural offices, there are hardly any architects at the offices who are older than 60 but NOT a one of the handful of principals. We seem to consume architects in whole, because they seem to mostly vanish after 50.
So does architecture not typically follow the 1 week per year of service rule that a lot of other industries apparently use?
I've been the right-hand man at a small firm for 7 years and even brought in a large project so I'm hoping to get more than just 2 weeks.
So has anyone on this board gotten more than 2 weeks- especially those who have worked at a firm for several years?
5-1/2 years worked, 2 weeks severance + cashed out 2 weeks vacation.
I was layed off 3 weeks ago here in SF Bay area, after 12 years with same firm. Bossman kept just 2 partners, 2 office staff and an ass kissing sycophant with no Architectural talent. In our group meeting (3) of us were given the details, he mentioned that our company manual stated 2 weeks severace, but he, in his genorosity was giving us a month pay.
Now of the other two people, one was employed there 3 years, and the other only 1 year, and he gave us 3 the same package. I was SO pissed off, so I got him alone and told him how I thought my package was a joke after 12 faithful years of service. He reminded me that the manual stated 2 weeks, I continued to pressure him, and strongly plead my case and demanded 3 months pay.
He was angered at my request for three months severance pay.
One hour later he stated that he is not HP or Apple, and cannot do things like big corps. I looked around the office, and admired how he likes to display some examples of his large collection of (25) vintage Porsche's in the office under lights like its a high end car lot.....
I decided that his pockets were much deeper than mine and continued to shoot for my goal, and whenever he cried poor, I would glance over at his Vintage Porsches parked INSIDE THE OFFICE!
He eventually gave me two months severance pay.
Man thats crappy....I would've offered to take a cherry 356 off his hands...
are we talking real 1:1 porshe's or the scale model die cast porshe's
12 years is a long time... damn.....
the people we laid off didn't get anything except their vacation cashed out.
Thanks for telling your story, Bone of Arch. Good for you standing firm; your situation definitely called for more consideration than typical.
This is why I will never be a successful "boss" - I'd be selling off my collection to keep paying employees; I have too much of a sense of needing to take care of people that far outweighs any cutthroat business sense. My old firm did this very well, which is why they tend to have extremely loyal employees.
Here in Boston I can confirm one good design firm that used the # of years employed/week of severence pay.
Listening to the greed and lack of loyalty exhibited by principals in firms described above, I feel very fortunate to have received 14 weeks severence.
Good luck to all of you who are looking for the next challenge.
The large corporate firm I worked at gives 2 weeks plus 1 day for every year worked as part of their standard policy.
At my last job, I got no severance whatsoever when being let go. As a result, I am still contemplating whether I should rat them out for using many copies of unlicensed software.
What do you guys think? Should I do it? It'd be a nice X-mas bonus for the company from me.
note to self, keep vintage porsches in parking lot...
^ I rickrolled the link to the company website in all of the the email signatures
merry chirstmas from me
The rickrolling is very funny, and certainly if a firm treats you unfairly it is tempting to get back at them.
But I encourage people who are contemplating revenge to be fair as well. If you've been treated like crap by a boss who isn't tightening his/her own belt, that's one thing (like BoneOfArch's horrid example above). But generally partners take salary cuts themselves and trim back as much overhead as possible before laying off staff. Laying people off is the absolute last thing they want to do, and if they have to, it's not fair (or professional) to screw things up for them on the way out.
Just be fair, is all, and take the high road if you have any question at all.
I've been warned that I'll be laid off in a couple weeks, when my current project wraps up.
My firm (very small) has no severance pay policy and hasn't ever provided severance pay to anyone they've laid off in the past - but then again I have far more seniority than any of those people had. It would be nice if there were a severance package - but I think they feel that these last weeks that I'm being kept on to finish this project are a favor/benefit to me (I am the last of the staff to go.)
But I do have about 3 weeks of unused vacation & comp time that they are going to pay, so that will help.
I have a few interviews lined up.
Assuming one of those pans out and I can start a new job around the first of the year I won't come out any the worse financially.
Keeping my fingers crossed!
remember that (in most states) employers are REQUIRED by law to pay out your benifits (vacation, sick, comp time, etc.) upon termination. don't get hosed...
As to the revenge temptation:
Remember that local professions operate in a kind of "small world." If word gets around that you've pulled something (even above-board, legitimate whistleblowing) on your last employer, your next one may become very hard to find.
Burning bridges shouldn't be on the table unless you plan to leave the field permanently, in my opinon.
"remember that (in most states) employers are REQUIRED by law to pay out your benifits (vacation, sick, comp time, etc.) upon termination. don't get hosed.."
This is true. However, employers aren't required to allow you to carry vacation over from year to year - or for that matter they're not even required to provide vacation in the first place. My firm has no written policy on any of this, so it would have been very easy for them to say that I can't carry over vacation (what I've got coming to me in banked time was mostly accumulated more than a year ago.)
And they're not required to provide comp time - especially to licensed professional staff - so I feel relatively fortunate to have been getting that all along.
In the absence of written policies, I feel relatively fortunate to be getting what I'm getting.
more importantly what are you going to spend it on?
I'm a licensed Professional Slave! Come on....not required by law....
what a crock!
no severence, but I got to work an extra 2.5 weeks. and I got most of my vacation I had left, and hopefully my meager profit sharing after 3.5 years.
no severence, but I got to work an extra 2.5 weeks. and I got most of my vacation I had left, and hopefully my meager profit sharing after 3.5 years.
here's a good one....
went on 80% pay this summer, I got off friday's but principals worked..
got laid off after 8 years, they told me i was getting 4 weeks severance, got home and realized it was at 80% pay rate, so it was really only 3 weeks!