I've been thinking about joining the ROTC while in grad school and then the reserves after. Anyone in the architecture field done that here?
I really not very sure about this, but I've kinda wanted to join the military for a while now. I will be working towards my M.Arch this fall and hopefully my master's in civil engineering after. I want to practice architecture more than engineering. I was thinking that my civilian job could be in architecture and my job in the military could be in civil engineering. Does the military have any architect positions? If they do, I'm sure they don't have many of them - but they could easily find something construction/engineering related for an architect to do.
However, I'm not really sure if I want the extra hassle of having to meet ROTC requirements while in school and possibly working. Other downsides include getting up early (2 or 3 days a week), summer training camps and shaving on a regular basis. I would probably enjoy summer training camps, but I should probably be spending my summers doing internships at architects offices. Benefits would include full tuition - plus some and extra pay and experience from the reserves after college. As far as tuition goes I will probably only have to pay for my first year of school as long as I can find an internship or TA'ship by my second year - so the tuition benefits from ROTC aren't that big a deal.
Anyway, it's just a crazy thought at this point. Probably won't go through with it because I'll be too busy.
will galloway
Jul 28, 08 8:40 pm
when i was looking to finance my education back in the 80's i spoke to an army recruiter. they did support architecture, but in the end it didn't sound quite right, so i turned down their offer and instead worked for 3 years to get together some cash for school.
the army can do interesting things, but it is a pretty functional sort of approach, so the architecture you would be doing would not exactly be inspiring. it may be pretty needful however, which is important enough...
holz.box
Jul 28, 08 9:03 pm
i can vouch that it's not the best way to go
Barry Lehrman
Jul 28, 08 9:53 pm
a grad school classmate joined the navy and is now playing landscape architect at camp pendleton. now if I can only find the few posts he made to archinect...
weem_of_crete
Jul 28, 08 10:11 pm
I would imagine most architects prefer quiet work environments. I don't think the military is exactly that.
brian buchalski
Jul 28, 08 10:14 pm
i think that it's a rather savvy strategic move to join the military because i don't think you can ever underestimate the value of killing people. not everybody can do that...and in a competitive world of increasing governmental/leadership de-stability, uncertain supplies of basic resources such as food & energy, and widening gulfs between the rich & poor...well, knowing how to build a "green zone" might be the best way to save your own ass (short of being a 'c' student at yale & becoming president)...but that's just my 2¢
Nam Henderson
Jul 28, 08 10:31 pm
Puddles it is interesting but i have friends who were or are in the military and that is a point we have often discussed, that active duty soldiers and veterans may be if shit hits the fan the only ones who are guaranteed some sort of "tribal" or other connection to power structures, infrastructure and basic resources..
On another note one would think there might be at least going into the future more opportunities for prefab/potable housing and developing buildings with built in infrastructure power sources etc..
At least if they (the military) were thinking of future proofing.
weem_of_crete
Jul 28, 08 11:09 pm
Having a military background could help you as far as managing a business goes, if you went the officer route. You would also have a connection to the blue-collar workforce, including those people building your projects, that many architects lack.
cou2
Jul 28, 08 11:24 pm
I knew this discussion would take a political turn. Most people would agree that we need a military. What is done with the military is up to the civilian leadership and ultimately the people who elect them. And I'm pretty sure that civilian leadership will change for the better come November.
Appleseed
Jul 28, 08 11:49 pm
My boss graduated from West Point. It shows.
myriam
Jul 29, 08 12:07 am
The navy has a strong Naval Architecture field, although I think it's probably more career-track oriented. You would be reconfiguring boats, naval base facilities, etc. In my opinion it would probably be pretty interesting -- and would probably teach you some amazing skills in terms of efficiency, working well in groups, and getting to see things go together and be built quickly and cleanly.
On the other hand, I think it would be insanely difficult to maintain design studies and ROTC at the same time.
Also, one thing I've learned from knowing someone in the military is that each branch definitely has it's own thing going on. They are not perfectly equatable. So if you ARE interested in joining, if I were you I'd definitely do the research on which branch you feel would be best for you.
cou2
Jul 29, 08 12:08 am
I'm not really looking for the military to teach me architecture. Thats why I'm going to grad school for 3 years. My brother is in the marine reserves and he spends one weekend a month and two weeks during the summer training. His civilian job is quite unrelated to his military position.
I wouldn't really want to be an architect in the military if that's what I was doing for a civilian job - but something related would be nice. It might broaden my perspective. I wouldn't really care whether it was some sort of construction management, site work or engineering. Anyone here done anything like this? Anyone do ROTC during grad school or even undergrad?
myriam
Jul 29, 08 12:08 am
To be very clear, I have zero experience in this myself. Just reporting information I've picked up second-hand from various friends in the military / ROTC.
cou2
Jul 29, 08 12:26 am
The Navy or Army seems to have the most going on in the construction and civil engineering fields. But the time requirements for their Air Force ROTC are less than those of the Army or Navy. And from what I hear the Air Force has it pretty good compared to other branches.
Atom
Jul 29, 08 12:54 am
You can work in a firm that does gov't work w/o going in the service. Have you been on base to see how and what they build? Its no frills. If you like the hangar aesthetic of exposed metal that can be cool in as much that there is no pretentious frilly fooo fooo. The military for the most part contracts the building work to architectural firms. They try to keep to their specialty, which is combat, and take the buildings to bid which keeps competition up and prices down. They also have a really efficient prototype for almost every building type they need. Kind of like ordering another tank or aircraft, they order another B.E.Q. These prototypes are so efficient that you as a designer would be at odds to improve it without adding costs. Though you think you are pretty hot so go ahead and try it. Sure, not every single thing needed has been done. Spending the rest of your days in a comfey office anyway you might consider going in to play with all the magnificent toys they have. Spend some time blowing buildings up.
will galloway
Jul 29, 08 7:06 am
the deal i was offered was free education in exchange for 5 years working for the army after i graduated. didn't include boot. sounds like you get a different deal in the usa?
i totally respect the military and have family fighting in afghanistan right now (yes canada is fighting and dieing in bush's war too), and can understand the appeal of wanting to be part of the military. not sure how much fun it would be to do that as an architect though.
if you really want to make it go that way imagine you can do it. but i'm just talking out of my ass, truth be told. ;-)
Renewable
Jul 29, 08 8:12 am
During World War II Harry Weese served as an engineer on a U.S. Navy destroyer.
complex
Jul 29, 08 10:18 pm
jump,
I personally know someone who did the rotc program and there b.a in arch program simultaneously and it was living hell for that person.
Waking up everyday at 5am to do intense PT after spending long nights in studio was just cruel. As a heads up the ROTC people are not that understanding about deadlines, long hours, final review, etc
Just focus on one of the two.... please.
williambricker
Aug 1, 17 2:24 pm
Listen, I know this post is old, I hope you joined. I am in the National Guard but I am in it in a Full Time position. The military is what you make of it. I am kind of sad to read most of you telling him basically not to join the service. His question was if any of you were in this situation which none of you were. I don't have my education, and that's because of life choices that I have made. But if I could do anything all over again, I would join the service. And there is nothing that will ever change that. The other things in life I would make adjustments to like get my degree before having children. I have 5 years left till I get out, and I want to have my degree or damn close to it by then. I have always dreamed of being an architect, I will get it and the service will be what really will get me there.
Volunteer
Aug 1, 17 2:57 pm
I believe in the USAF they toss the architects in the civil engineering field. The GI bill, after you have served a certain number of years on active duty and get out completely or join the Reserves, will pretty much pay your tuition to ANY school that will accept you, so it would make sense to go to graduate school after your service. On the other hand the service may well send you to school full time while you are still in and drawing full pay (after you have completed an initial time commitment) You would incur additional time commitments should you do so. You DO NOT get the GI Bill by just joining the Reserves of Guard and forgoing active duty.
williambricker
Jan 8, 18 7:37 am
I am a recruiter for the National Guard and you DO get the GI Bill for service. If your going to post comments you should have some of your facts. The difference is our GI Bill isn’t as much, but here in Pennsylvania we provide $7,492 a year to a college your looking at on top of the GI Bill who’s is up to $725 a month plus Drill pay. All for Part Time Service. That’s the facts.
Bench
Oct 4, 17 4:47 am
Hahahahaha the US Navy is using gmail for its communications now?!
Non Sequitur
Oct 4, 17 9:00 am
If I had coffee in my mug, it would be over my screen. Hilarious.
RCIXM24
Oct 13, 17 2:34 pm
Old Post but I am currently work as a 808 Architect (Civilian) in an Air Force Civil Engineering Squadron, feel free to send me a message I would be more than happy to describe my experiences working for the military.
-Cheers!
RCIXM24
Oct 13, 17 4:12 pm
Hahaha, you'd be surprised. 808 is the number designation they give to the "Architect" position in the GS Civil Service. Architects in the Air Force mainly do construction management and standards checking on construction and design of projects on bases. Mainly buildings but sometimes you cross over into other things like Mechanical and Civil Engineering works so it is very multidisciplinary.
RCIXM24
Oct 13, 17 4:51 pm
Smart man! On both counts. One day I shall triumphantly return to residential design where I belong.
Peter Normand
Nov 22, 17 12:58 pm
The military route is one that several folks I know took, they were in the Coast Guard and Navy their specialization in architecture and construction management have so far provided promising and rewarding careers designing mostly utilitarian and highly technically complex structures in extreme environments. If you like complex problems to solve working in the military as an architect should be very rewarding, if you want to design high end buildings and have some say in the aesthetics you might not find the military to have many of those types of opportunities. Also the US Armed forces is one of the biggest players in green architecture and sustainability when the mission allows for it (everything you do in the military is a mission).
over and OUT
Peter N
BulgarBlogger
Nov 22, 17 11:02 pm
If you are considering doing something else other than architecture after you graduate, this career really isnt for you. It is hard as it is already, but clearly your passion (and focus) is elsewhere. Whether its the Military or something else, your focus should be on Mastering Architecture and you can’t master this field if you aren’t fully invested in it- for both the good and the bad parts of it. Choosing a profession is a bit like entering into a marriage: you go into it knowing that not everything will be to your liking, but no matter what- you don’t cheat on your spouse, till death donyou part.
Choose a different career mate. It can only go downhill with your attitude.
Jasminecarte2013
Dec 28, 17 10:46 am
I am actually an architect student and in the Air Force Reserves. I initially went in to satisfy out of state tuition costs and hopefully be able to find a related job in the military (without doing my research). Bad idea. For one, even workinf those weekends is critical to your architecture projects; there were times I had to work a weekend right before a final project crit. Bad idea. In the long run, unless you aspire to build less desirable, completely functional buildings, I wouldn't recommend becoming an architect/civil engineer in the military. You also run the risk of being deployed one day if things hit the fan. Landing an internship or firm position then having to temporarily step out for 4-6 months is critical to any firm! The good aspect is that you're schooling is paid for and people notice the discipline and leadership qualities in your personality. So I would say don't join anything other than architecture, especially in school.
jscott21
Jun 13, 22 6:08 pm
Doesn't USERRA address this?
nickmarsala
Jan 6, 18 6:50 pm
I think it's a great idea! I had another topic about why the Military doesn't direct commission Architects. I hope everything works out for you!
Volunteer
Jan 7, 18 7:49 am
The military very rarely give a 'direct commission' to anyone. Everyone is commissioned by going to the Service Academies, ROTC at college, or Officer Training School (3 months) after college. The type of degree required to become an officer is usually irrelevant, especially for career fields like pilots. An architecture graduate could very well land a slot in a non-flying civil engineering career field if he wanted to stay close to his college specialty. The service will offer you a specific career field BEFORE you sign-up and cannot change it without giving you the option of getting out.
Here is a breakdown of being an architect in the Navy...They will pay for Graduate School at your 10 year mark and help you get licensed.
zonker
Jan 7, 18 2:16 pm
Link
Actually, one of my M.arch classmates was a Navy Commander in the Seabees. She was tough, during finals week, she would stay up 4 nights in a row(her husband was a SEAL) and that is how she made through finals("Hell Week") as we called it
arhiarhi design group
Jun 18, 22 2:31 pm
Well let me tell u. If u join the military branch as an architect u will gain new clients in the long run. In the short run u will be automatically choosen to design training fields. And if u start designs for adaptations u will find out that for every the ratio for toilet sizes is 5:2 Male:Female . Interesting. Source. My and my fathers architect and military experience
I've been thinking about joining the ROTC while in grad school and then the reserves after. Anyone in the architecture field done that here?
I really not very sure about this, but I've kinda wanted to join the military for a while now. I will be working towards my M.Arch this fall and hopefully my master's in civil engineering after. I want to practice architecture more than engineering. I was thinking that my civilian job could be in architecture and my job in the military could be in civil engineering. Does the military have any architect positions? If they do, I'm sure they don't have many of them - but they could easily find something construction/engineering related for an architect to do.
However, I'm not really sure if I want the extra hassle of having to meet ROTC requirements while in school and possibly working. Other downsides include getting up early (2 or 3 days a week), summer training camps and shaving on a regular basis. I would probably enjoy summer training camps, but I should probably be spending my summers doing internships at architects offices. Benefits would include full tuition - plus some and extra pay and experience from the reserves after college. As far as tuition goes I will probably only have to pay for my first year of school as long as I can find an internship or TA'ship by my second year - so the tuition benefits from ROTC aren't that big a deal.
Anyway, it's just a crazy thought at this point. Probably won't go through with it because I'll be too busy.
when i was looking to finance my education back in the 80's i spoke to an army recruiter. they did support architecture, but in the end it didn't sound quite right, so i turned down their offer and instead worked for 3 years to get together some cash for school.
the army can do interesting things, but it is a pretty functional sort of approach, so the architecture you would be doing would not exactly be inspiring. it may be pretty needful however, which is important enough...
i can vouch that it's not the best way to go
a grad school classmate joined the navy and is now playing landscape architect at camp pendleton. now if I can only find the few posts he made to archinect...
I would imagine most architects prefer quiet work environments. I don't think the military is exactly that.
i think that it's a rather savvy strategic move to join the military because i don't think you can ever underestimate the value of killing people. not everybody can do that...and in a competitive world of increasing governmental/leadership de-stability, uncertain supplies of basic resources such as food & energy, and widening gulfs between the rich & poor...well, knowing how to build a "green zone" might be the best way to save your own ass (short of being a 'c' student at yale & becoming president)...but that's just my 2¢
Puddles it is interesting but i have friends who were or are in the military and that is a point we have often discussed, that active duty soldiers and veterans may be if shit hits the fan the only ones who are guaranteed some sort of "tribal" or other connection to power structures, infrastructure and basic resources..
On another note one would think there might be at least going into the future more opportunities for prefab/potable housing and developing buildings with built in infrastructure power sources etc..
At least if they (the military) were thinking of future proofing.
Having a military background could help you as far as managing a business goes, if you went the officer route. You would also have a connection to the blue-collar workforce, including those people building your projects, that many architects lack.
I knew this discussion would take a political turn. Most people would agree that we need a military. What is done with the military is up to the civilian leadership and ultimately the people who elect them. And I'm pretty sure that civilian leadership will change for the better come November.
My boss graduated from West Point. It shows.
The navy has a strong Naval Architecture field, although I think it's probably more career-track oriented. You would be reconfiguring boats, naval base facilities, etc. In my opinion it would probably be pretty interesting -- and would probably teach you some amazing skills in terms of efficiency, working well in groups, and getting to see things go together and be built quickly and cleanly.
On the other hand, I think it would be insanely difficult to maintain design studies and ROTC at the same time.
Also, one thing I've learned from knowing someone in the military is that each branch definitely has it's own thing going on. They are not perfectly equatable. So if you ARE interested in joining, if I were you I'd definitely do the research on which branch you feel would be best for you.
I'm not really looking for the military to teach me architecture. Thats why I'm going to grad school for 3 years. My brother is in the marine reserves and he spends one weekend a month and two weeks during the summer training. His civilian job is quite unrelated to his military position.
I wouldn't really want to be an architect in the military if that's what I was doing for a civilian job - but something related would be nice. It might broaden my perspective. I wouldn't really care whether it was some sort of construction management, site work or engineering. Anyone here done anything like this? Anyone do ROTC during grad school or even undergrad?
To be very clear, I have zero experience in this myself. Just reporting information I've picked up second-hand from various friends in the military / ROTC.
The Navy or Army seems to have the most going on in the construction and civil engineering fields. But the time requirements for their Air Force ROTC are less than those of the Army or Navy. And from what I hear the Air Force has it pretty good compared to other branches.
You can work in a firm that does gov't work w/o going in the service. Have you been on base to see how and what they build? Its no frills. If you like the hangar aesthetic of exposed metal that can be cool in as much that there is no pretentious frilly fooo fooo. The military for the most part contracts the building work to architectural firms. They try to keep to their specialty, which is combat, and take the buildings to bid which keeps competition up and prices down. They also have a really efficient prototype for almost every building type they need. Kind of like ordering another tank or aircraft, they order another B.E.Q. These prototypes are so efficient that you as a designer would be at odds to improve it without adding costs. Though you think you are pretty hot so go ahead and try it. Sure, not every single thing needed has been done. Spending the rest of your days in a comfey office anyway you might consider going in to play with all the magnificent toys they have. Spend some time blowing buildings up.
the deal i was offered was free education in exchange for 5 years working for the army after i graduated. didn't include boot. sounds like you get a different deal in the usa?
i totally respect the military and have family fighting in afghanistan right now (yes canada is fighting and dieing in bush's war too), and can understand the appeal of wanting to be part of the military. not sure how much fun it would be to do that as an architect though.
if you really want to make it go that way imagine you can do it. but i'm just talking out of my ass, truth be told. ;-)
During World War II Harry Weese served as an engineer on a U.S. Navy destroyer.
jump,
I personally know someone who did the rotc program and there b.a in arch program simultaneously and it was living hell for that person.
Waking up everyday at 5am to do intense PT after spending long nights in studio was just cruel. As a heads up the ROTC people are not that understanding about deadlines, long hours, final review, etc
Just focus on one of the two.... please.
Listen, I know this post is old, I hope you joined. I am in the National Guard but I am in it in a Full Time position. The military is what you make of it. I am kind of sad to read most of you telling him basically not to join the service. His question was if any of you were in this situation which none of you were. I don't have my education, and that's because of life choices that I have made. But if I could do anything all over again, I would join the service. And there is nothing that will ever change that. The other things in life I would make adjustments to like get my degree before having children. I have 5 years left till I get out, and I want to have my degree or damn close to it by then. I have always dreamed of being an architect, I will get it and the service will be what really will get me there.
I believe in the USAF they toss the architects in the civil engineering field. The GI bill, after you have served a certain number of years on active duty and get out completely or join the Reserves, will pretty much pay your tuition to ANY school that will accept you, so it would make sense to go to graduate school after your service. On the other hand the service may well send you to school full time while you are still in and drawing full pay (after you have completed an initial time commitment) You would incur additional time commitments should you do so. You DO NOT get the GI Bill by just joining the Reserves of Guard and forgoing active duty.
I am a recruiter for the National Guard and you DO get the GI Bill for service. If your going to post comments you should have some of your facts. The difference is our GI Bill isn’t as much, but here in Pennsylvania we provide $7,492 a year to a college your looking at on top of the GI Bill who’s is up to $725 a month plus Drill pay. All for Part Time Service. That’s the facts.
Hahahahaha the US Navy is using gmail for its communications now?!
If I had coffee in my mug, it would be over my screen. Hilarious.
Old Post but I am currently work as a 808 Architect (Civilian) in an Air Force Civil Engineering Squadron, feel free to send me a message I would be more than happy to describe my experiences working for the military.
-Cheers!
Hahaha, you'd be surprised. 808 is the number designation they give to the "Architect" position in the GS Civil Service. Architects in the Air Force mainly do construction management and standards checking on construction and design of projects on bases. Mainly buildings but sometimes you cross over into other things like Mechanical and Civil Engineering works so it is very multidisciplinary.
Smart man! On both counts. One day I shall triumphantly return to residential design where I belong.
The military route is one that several folks I know took, they were in the Coast Guard and Navy their specialization in architecture and construction management have so far provided promising and rewarding careers designing mostly utilitarian and highly technically complex structures in extreme environments. If you like complex problems to solve working in the military as an architect should be very rewarding, if you want to design high end buildings and have some say in the aesthetics you might not find the military to have many of those types of opportunities. Also the US Armed forces is one of the biggest players in green architecture and sustainability when the mission allows for it (everything you do in the military is a mission).
over and OUT
Peter N
If you are considering doing something else other than architecture after you graduate, this career really isnt for you. It is hard as it is already, but clearly your passion (and focus) is elsewhere. Whether its the Military or something else, your focus should be on Mastering Architecture and you can’t master this field if you aren’t fully invested in it- for both the good and the bad parts of it. Choosing a profession is a bit like entering into a marriage: you go into it knowing that not everything will be to your liking, but no matter what- you don’t cheat on your spouse, till death donyou part.
Choose a different career mate. It can only go downhill with your attitude.
I am actually an architect student and in the Air Force Reserves. I initially went in to satisfy out of state tuition costs and hopefully be able to find a related job in the military (without doing my research). Bad idea. For one, even workinf those weekends is critical to your architecture projects; there were times I had to work a weekend right before a final project crit. Bad idea. In the long run, unless you aspire to build less desirable, completely functional buildings, I wouldn't recommend becoming an architect/civil engineer in the military. You also run the risk of being deployed one day if things hit the fan. Landing an internship or firm position then having to temporarily step out for 4-6 months is critical to any firm! The good aspect is that you're schooling is paid for and people notice the discipline and leadership qualities in your personality. So I would say don't join anything other than architecture, especially in school.
Doesn't USERRA address this?
I think it's a great idea! I had another topic about why the Military doesn't direct commission Architects. I hope everything works out for you!
The military very rarely give a 'direct commission' to anyone. Everyone is commissioned by going to the Service Academies, ROTC at college, or Officer Training School (3 months) after college. The type of degree required to become an officer is usually irrelevant, especially for career fields like pilots. An architecture graduate could very well land a slot in a non-flying civil engineering career field if he wanted to stay close to his college specialty. The service will offer you a specific career field BEFORE you sign-up and cannot change it without giving you the option of getting out.
Link
Here is a breakdown of being an architect in the Navy...They will pay for Graduate School at your 10 year mark and help you get licensed.
Link
Actually, one of my M.arch classmates was a Navy Commander in the Seabees. She was tough, during finals week, she would stay up 4 nights in a row(her husband was a SEAL) and that is how she made through finals("Hell Week") as we called it
Well let me tell u. If u join the military branch as an architect u will gain new clients in the long run. In the short run u will be automatically choosen to design training fields. And if u start designs for adaptations u will find out that for every the ratio for toilet sizes is 5:2 Male:Female . Interesting. Source. My and my fathers architect and military experience