So I have slowly been trying to develop my own small design/render/draft business and I had someone contact me needing an as-built (survey) set produced. While I have produced sets such as these in the past, they were for firms that I worked for.
What do you guys thinks? Below is the scope:
The condo is three floors, about 2600 sq ft, three bedrooms, 2.5 baths.
The space needs to be measured and drawn on autocad.
The floorplans and rcp and specific elevations.
Living room/ dining room - 3 elevations (east, south, west)
Master bedroom - All four elevations
Master closet - three elevations
Master bath - four elevations
Home office and small corridor adjacent to home office
Stairwell. (For artwork layout, lighting etc.)
Entry corridor
Entry closet.
Powder bathroom elevations.
What do you guys think? Is there a standard hourly or sq ft rate you use?
Any input would be greatly appreciated!
vado retro
May 23, 13 5:38 pm
As-built drawings: As-built drawings are prepared by the contractor. They show, in red ink, on-site changes to the original construction documents.
Measured drawings: Measured drawings are prepared in the process of measuring a building for future renovation or as historic documentation. They are created from on-site measurements.
Record drawings: Record drawings are prepared by the architect and reflect on-site changes the contractor noted in the as-built drawings. They are often compiled as a set of on-site changes made for the owner per the owner-architect contract.
Brendan Leadbeater
May 23, 13 5:52 pm
Vado, thanks for the correction in terminology. I didn't realize these terms were so tightly used. May I ask what your source is as I would love to have this sort of information at my disposal. Based on the above definitions, these drawings would be considered "measured drawings".
Does anyone have any input regarding a fee for a project of this type/scale? Thanks!
poop876
May 24, 13 8:40 am
I say 6 hours to field measure and 8 hours to draw!
Why do they need interior elevations?
wurdan freo
May 24, 13 10:26 pm
6-8hrs. Should be done in a day. Bring your laptop. Model in revit while you measure. Export to cad if you have to. I would probably charge $600-$800 depending on the level of detail required. I don't live in NY however, so that price is probably irrelevant.
What would someone charge in New York? Call a local AE temp staffing company. Tell them you have your own drafting business and are sometimes looking for part time help. They should give you an hourly rate and you can break it down. Ask your friends who do similar work. Ask draftsmen at firms how much they are paid and add a multiplier 2.5-3. At the end of the day, what's it worth to you? That's what you have to decide.
Establishing a rate, like all other things, takes practice. Simple equation to start with
Labor+Materials+Overhead+Profit = rate.
Once you figure out a rate, you try it. If it doesn't work? Change it.
I prefer a lump sum to an hourly rate. I would get this done in a day and charge for three days worth of my hourly time for it. Why? Because the client doesn't know it only takes me eight hours to complete and if they did, then they would argue my hourly rate down to something that becomes a loser for me. What they don't realize is that it's taken me 10 years plus the eight hours to get to the point where I can provide this deliverable.
the going rate for drafting in my area is about $35/hr. $35x8 = $280. Far cry from what I want to do this job.
Brendan Leadbeater
May 25, 13 3:36 pm
POOP, they need interior elevations for millwork design.
Wurdan, unfortunately I am not Revit savvy as my background is more inline with Graphisoft's ArchiCAD which is a software Revit basically mimics.
This will definitely take me longer than a day given the amount of detail wants included in it. I am going to be charging $50/hr and she is very much okay with it.
Ernest Miller
May 25, 13 9:05 pm
Brendan
I have been in my own for the past 7 years in the LA area. A measured set of drawings like you described usually brings me around 3k. I use Archicad also and find it perfect for any type of project. You have to charge for your experience along with overhead and you will do fine.
Ross
Brendan Leadbeater
May 26, 13 4:38 pm
Ross,
Thanks so much for your input. I gave the firm a breakdown of required drawings, sheet set count, required drawings @ $50/hr. I estimated it would take me about 40 hours or so to complete the set and they seem to be okay with it.
They are also interested in having me generate 3d views/rednerings for the project as well.
I would like to produce the drawings in ArchiCAD but they specifically requested I do the drawings in Autocad. I don't want to deal with the hassle of producing in ArchiCad, then exporting to Autocad and having to edit the linetypes, layers, etc....always a big headache.
Have you run into any snags or shortcomings when producing drawings for clients using Archicad?
Steven Ward
May 26, 13 6:11 pm
I would never input data in the field. You need a hard copy to which you can refer - preferably with lots of notes all over it. Redundancy is good, in this case. Can often save you from a trip back.
Ernest Miller
May 27, 13 5:30 pm
Brendan
I always build the model in Archicad and produce my working drawings from the model. That way I have all options available. Then I save all my dwg files from the working drawings and send to consultants. Archicad allows you to save all drawings in autocad format. I have never had an issue with it. Everything you need is in the program you have. The problem is that if you end up having to look for a job with another firm your basically screwed if you don't know autocad. But it sounds like you don't want to be a cad monkey anymore so just kick ass in Archicad and work for yourself.
Ross
Brendan Leadbeater
May 27, 13 6:38 pm
I have had issues with exporting out to DWGs in the past. It makes it more difficult for the drawings to be edited in the future within AutoCAD especially if you have used filles or zones within ArchiCad, but it seems this has never been an issue for you.
Do you have your own business? Do you consult for firms? How do you find yourself getting projects? What type of projects do you generally get?
Apurimac
May 28, 13 8:59 pm
I do alot of this work in NYC for a living now. 6hrs to measure, 8 to draw sounds about right to me for this space but you have to know what you're doing to get it done correctly and efficiently. Use a laser measure and old-fashioned pen and paper if you're expecting a complex space with funky angles and lots of wall projections and fiddly details. Do it on computer if the space is clean, relatively new and simple.
Be sure you factor in time spent getting to and from the site, time/money spent making plots and the costs of all the ancillaries (including a meal during your site visit) into your fee. Consider the opportunity costs of the job relative to other work you could be doing.
Ernest Miller
May 28, 13 10:19 pm
Hey Brendan
Seems like your getting some great input. The last guy said it well. I have been out on my own since 06. I have made it through these brutal last 4 years. I also contract to other firms because of my ability to use Archicad. There are lots of firms who don't have a clue about modeling and it's potential. Seek out a couple of good contractors (with integrity), you can work together to bring more work in also. I can always help a contractor with enlarging his scope of work because I can better help his clients visualize the project and help educate them on the possibilities of their potential project. All my projects are referal based. Doing quality work for clients and contractors gets all the projects I need. Archicad and it's modeling ability allow me to really work one on one with the client. They get exactly what we model. True success come from communication. ALWAYS have all meetings with clients involved. It may be time consuming but if everything is on the table (owning my own mistakes) shows that you are an honest person with only your clients well being in mind. Never let a contractor pull you to the side to discuss a problem with the design. That shows that he doesn't have the clients best interest in mind. My main business is relatively small custom homes, remodels (large and small), and commercial tenant improvements.
Brendan Leadbeater
May 31, 13 6:32 pm
Thanks so much for everyone's opinions and advice!!! This has been a very informative and interesting discussion that has helped me out greatly.
Now I just hope I can continue to pull in work and not have to rely on working for a firm, which is something I am currently trying to avoid while I study for my exams. I am also very hopeful that I can grow my network to a point where I can sustain myself without having to rely on working for someone else.
Goodluck to all!
KRIMO
Feb 25, 14 10:36 am
Dear quizzical,
Thank you for posting the link. uUnfortunately I can`t download it, if you email it to me I would really appreciate. I need to give a proposal for a client for suveying a 24 story building in NYC.
For the others, I also I would appreciate it you have anything helpfull, the purpose of my survey is to privide a layouts for the installation of a fire alarm system for the entire building, including the cellar,
Thanks everyone for the great discussion above, very informative and helpful for those of us just starting to do work on our own (even 3 years later).
cadomestique
Apr 7, 16 4:44 pm
I did the freelance thing for a about 3 yrs during the great depression era. Many of my jobs were to produce AS-BUILT sets for other architects/builders (btw above definitions are somewhat wrong) and got really good at it.
A laser tape is a must, along with a photo camara. I could measure a single story in 2 hrs and a 3 story in about 4-5 hrs and yes, any good cad monkey can rip sketches in a 1 day work (8 hrs) for plans other for interiors but not more.
Multiply that for your hourly rate plus mileage and that's your estimate. Client doesn't have to overpay your deficiencies imho.
Apr 8, 16 12:21 am
There's no such thing as a laser tape but it is term popularized by ignorants.
laser distance measure or handheld laser-based EDM to more correct. EDM means Electronic Distance Meter (EDM System or EDM Instrument where the M means Measurement)
What is it that you need, Grumpy Grizzly?
brendanleadbeater
Apr 8, 16 2:10 am
GrumpGriz... There are several applications you can download on your phone/ipad that allow you to capture existing conditions on your device via the devices camera rotating around the room. Is this what you are talking about?
There are also more high-end laser distance measuring devices that also take pictures as you measure with the laser and compile the information together.
Although, I am not exactly sure what you are looking for.
Apr 8, 16 2:40 am
In addition, there is also software that will take photos and generate 3d model of the space. Do a few measurements and you can generate a virtual 1:1 scale 3d model of the building or space inside. This technique is based photogrammetry for what is image based modeling. A relatively few measurements are needed for proper scaling. As for profiles, you can probably do that adequately with a decent profile tool.
archiwutm8
Apr 8, 16 3:12 am
Lmao, no Rick no. It isn't as simple as "Lets take a few photos and get an accurate model.
Apr 8, 16 3:47 am
Archiwutm8,
Did I say few photos? Now, you are putting words in that I didn't say. Try reading when you aren't drunk.
I think the only time here that I said few had to do with measurements of the building. Its for measurement controls on 3-axis.
I was referring to take photos as in taking photos as an input data from which the software will through process generate a 3d model from the image.
I DID NOT WRITE ANYTHING ABOUT THE PROCESS OR HOW THE USE THE SOFTWARE. AS IT IS, WE HAVE DIFFERENT SOFTWARE PRODUCTS WITH VARYING DEGREES OF COMPLEXITY OF USE. I INTENTIONALLY KEPT THE POST SIMPLE AND TO THE POINT.
I WASN'T WRITING A THESIS ON HOW TO USE THE SOFTWARE TO MAKE THE 3-D MODEL. IT IS NOT SOMETHING WE CAN USE ARCHINECT AS A PLATFORM TO DELIVER THIS MEDIUM. TEACHING IS SOMETHING THIS FORUM IS A POOR MEDIUM. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HAS TO BE DONE IN PERSON OR VIA PRIVATE COMMUNICATION. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO EFFECTIVELY TEACH THIS STUFF WITH THE WHOLE PEANUT GALLERY, HERE TO DERAIL ANY EFFECTIVENESS. THE FORUM CULTURE GETS IN THE WAY OF THAT.
Apr 8, 16 3:56 am
PS: I'm confident Grizzly here knows it's more involved to do these things than just take a few photos press a magic button and few magical seconds later a perfectly accurate (not distorted but accurate to shape, form, proportions,etc.) and then with a few measurements from the field to then scale the 3d model in CAD it be perfect dimensioned.
It takes some work in making sure the 3d model isn't distorted garbage. I'm sure Grizzly knows, life isn't THAT simple that it can be just a magical click of a button. Just as he knows that architecture just doesn't happen by a click of a button. Architectural design involves a lot of work that was designed by the Architect/Designer.
Apr 8, 16 5:04 am
Right you are Rick, I've been doing drafting for right at 38 years now.. (Yikes, I feel really old now).
Not old yet. :-)
When you been playing the game since ol' the 2000th century B.C.
As for old school, I've done the old fashion, hand drafting. Give me enough time and a whirl, I'd do hand drafted plans and probably still don't need an engineer that will probably use some computer generated spit out and affix a stamp.
I'll have to get to the rest tomorrow given it's 2:05AM, where I am in Astoria, Oregon.
Apr 8, 16 5:21 am
Grizzly,
I know where you are referring to. While the some of the peanut gallery might not.
I been there before. As well as Portland, Oregon. I see WA state every day just looking out the front door. (As long as it isn't too foggy)
shellarchitect
Apr 8, 16 11:16 am
do you guys ever use a scanner for as builts?
we have one at my office here and use it fairly often, basically put it in the middle of a room and it laser scans every surface, pretty slick. only fiendish are cost and it creates huge files
brendanleadbeater
Apr 8, 16 11:27 am
Shuellmi are you referring to cloud point scanning?
brendanleadbeater
Apr 8, 16 11:30 am
Lately I have been bringing my laptop to the field and creating the drawing on-site, making sure I am methodical with the information I capture. I input all the info into ArchiCAD, which is another BIM based software. In doing this, I have all the proper window/door/sill/head heights along with accurate floor to ceiling heights. This also reduces the amount of time sketching in-field then translating those sketches into the virtual world.
shellarchitect
Apr 8, 16 11:49 am
I believe there are cheap versions which might work well for small interior spaces as opposed to the 100k versions
archiwutm8
Apr 8, 16 3:53 pm
90% accurate in Revit? I Laugh. I do laser scanning and revit as built for a living in a surveying company, any questions just ask, I may answer.
curtkram
Apr 9, 16 9:37 am
has anyone used something like apex sketch or other tablet software to sketch the plan on a tablet instead of paper and pencil? a tablet can zoom in and out, which is a big advantage over pencil and paper. i would think bringing a laptop and drafting straight to autocad while you measure could be slow and cumbersome.
ARCFLO
Aug 11, 17 12:11 pm
FWIW... We used to measure by hand / laser distance meter, and sketch, and draft or model.Super slow, wasn't accurate, and the client couldn't relate or get excited about their project.
Today we use ArchiCAD and Point Cloud modeling for "As-Builts." Point Cloud scanning has been a great evolution to our work flow and has landed us quite a few gigs with other AEC and construction firms across the country who see the value in our process.
brendanleadbeater
Aug 11, 17 12:17 pm
ArcFlo where are you located? We too use ArchiCad I have considered using point cloud at one point but the models become fairly heavy, no?
ARCFLO
Aug 11, 17 4:35 pm
ARCFLO is in SLC, UT. If the point cloud data is post processed correctly, the LCFs in ArchiCAD work great. We have some projects with nearly 200 combined LCFs containing point cloud data. Hardware might be something to consider. FWIW, we use enterprise grade workstations with Windows OS.
mantaray
Aug 16, 17 10:20 am
Wow Grumpy you finally found it! I have an as-built side job coming up next week--may have to download and fiddle around with this thing. Thanks for coming back and sharing--that's really helpful of you!
likeit
Sep 21, 17 11:27 am
rather uninformed here...really appreciate discussions like this. What about an app like room scan.. just used it to measure a few walls at home, you just walk around the room, put the phone on the walls sequentially, measures and connects the walls...has some powerful features, which I need to figure out..
cotareal
Sep 26, 17 5:31 pm
Hi Guys,
I'm new here in this forum, Thank you for the information provided.
I live in the Houston, TX area, I have doing as-built surveys since 1996, (yes old school as well), I'm using Hilti/Leica laser meters, Asus laptops, Ricoh 360 cameras, Nikon still and 12 shoot cameras.
I do as-built surveys and cad drafting for a living, from my home, some months are very good, some are pure famine, you know the tune (Oh Lord I'm stuck in Lodi again :) I do residential but mostly Banks, Restaurants, Coffee Shops, Retail Store (big box) and vendors inside Macy's, Dillard's and other
I have been working as a remote contractor with some companies located in California and New York and sometimes they don't understand the distances among the cities in Texas or the traffic in the Houston Area; I tell you this because they don't want to pay for Travel Time and I just simply can't afford that
I would appreciate if you can share your experiences with me.
I checked the federal mileage rate that is $0.54 per mile using your own vehicle, and per-diem according to the city doing the job. *Question 1: How much (hourly rate) for your time do you charge going back and forth to the survey site? or how you calculate mileage and travel time costs?
A month ago a company in Colorado contacted me, asking to work for them as a as-built architectural surveyor (remote contractor) in the Texas area, this company says they set the prices by survey (flat fee), they pay you until the client pay them, and besides they are asking for a General Liability Insurance as a drafter, I have requested quotes and they are between $950 and $1,200 a year
*Question 2: Have you dealt with this kind of insurance or situation before?
There is a company in California, they do as-builts and they need surveyors to go to measure some restaurants in Florida, (these are in average 5,500 sqft) and they required using your own equipment: floor plan, RCP, ext/int elevations, furniture Plan, Door/Window schedule, 360 Photo Plan, cover sheet, wall sections, to go area, bar and bathroom elevations, etc. we are talking about 16 sheets in total; they pay the Travel Costs and give you two weeks to go there and finish the drafting; they pay $1,200 flat fee for your labor (of course they will send you a 1099 for taxes at the end of the year)
Doing the math 1200/80 hrs is $15/hr before taxes, overhead, use of equipment, etc
*Question 3: What would you respond to this company? Please help
Thank you so much in advance for your answers!
cotareal
Sep 26, 17 5:43 pm
Thanks, sounds good!
joseffischer
Sep 26, 17 5:55 pm
$1,200 for 16 sheets? I know I skimmed it, but my reading comprehension must not be what it once was...
cotareal
Sep 26, 17 7:48 pm
Yes, you are right; I had to say no thanks and I requested $4500 each of the seven as-builts along florida, but they were looking for what they called 'weak surveyors'
Cameron M
Nov 22, 18 1:54 pm
Don't know if Grumpy Grizzly is still watching this, but I'm wondering if you're still using the Orthograph app for your as built drawings? I'm looking at it now for my own work and am looking to hear from real world users how well they like it.
Cheers.
Cameron M
Nov 23, 18 4:10 pm
Thanks for the feedback, GG. I was playing around with my Autocad Mobile app on my tablet with my new Leica Disto and it seemed to work quite well. The mobile app is a little tricky but I suspect it comes easier with practice, though I could probably work faster using my laptop and full blown autocad but I think that becomes a bit cumbersome to carry around on site, while the tablet is pretty easy to carry. I'd like to be able to do something that is fast and simple like the floor plan measuring companies do for real estate marketing.
Cameron M
Nov 23, 18 11:30 pm
I’ve only been able to have it interact with my iPad using AutoCad Mobile. I believe there are transfer softwares available for Windows PCs that are linked to on the Leica site. Nothing for Apple machines though. Both my iPhone and iPad have Bluetooth 4 so I lucked out on the compatibility with the Disto.
So I have slowly been trying to develop my own small design/render/draft business and I had someone contact me needing an as-built (survey) set produced. While I have produced sets such as these in the past, they were for firms that I worked for.
What do you guys thinks? Below is the scope:
The condo is three floors, about 2600 sq ft, three bedrooms, 2.5 baths.
The space needs to be measured and drawn on autocad.
The floorplans and rcp and specific elevations.
Living room/ dining room - 3 elevations (east, south, west)
Master bedroom - All four elevations
Master closet - three elevations
Master bath - four elevations
Home office and small corridor adjacent to home office
Stairwell. (For artwork layout, lighting etc.)
Entry corridor
Entry closet.
Powder bathroom elevations.
What do you guys think? Is there a standard hourly or sq ft rate you use?
Any input would be greatly appreciated!
As-built drawings: As-built drawings are prepared by the contractor. They show, in red ink, on-site changes to the original construction documents.
Measured drawings: Measured drawings are prepared in the process of measuring a building for future renovation or as historic documentation. They are created from on-site measurements.
Record drawings: Record drawings are prepared by the architect and reflect on-site changes the contractor noted in the as-built drawings. They are often compiled as a set of on-site changes made for the owner per the owner-architect contract.
Vado, thanks for the correction in terminology. I didn't realize these terms were so tightly used. May I ask what your source is as I would love to have this sort of information at my disposal. Based on the above definitions, these drawings would be considered "measured drawings".
Check this out: http://www.aia.org/aiaucmp/groups/ek_members/documents/document/aiap026835.pdf
Thanks QUIZZICAL... will check it out.
Does anyone have any input regarding a fee for a project of this type/scale? Thanks!
I say 6 hours to field measure and 8 hours to draw!
Why do they need interior elevations?
6-8hrs. Should be done in a day. Bring your laptop. Model in revit while you measure. Export to cad if you have to. I would probably charge $600-$800 depending on the level of detail required. I don't live in NY however, so that price is probably irrelevant.
What would someone charge in New York? Call a local AE temp staffing company. Tell them you have your own drafting business and are sometimes looking for part time help. They should give you an hourly rate and you can break it down. Ask your friends who do similar work. Ask draftsmen at firms how much they are paid and add a multiplier 2.5-3. At the end of the day, what's it worth to you? That's what you have to decide.
Establishing a rate, like all other things, takes practice. Simple equation to start with
Labor+Materials+Overhead+Profit = rate.
Once you figure out a rate, you try it. If it doesn't work? Change it.
I prefer a lump sum to an hourly rate. I would get this done in a day and charge for three days worth of my hourly time for it. Why? Because the client doesn't know it only takes me eight hours to complete and if they did, then they would argue my hourly rate down to something that becomes a loser for me. What they don't realize is that it's taken me 10 years plus the eight hours to get to the point where I can provide this deliverable.
the going rate for drafting in my area is about $35/hr. $35x8 = $280. Far cry from what I want to do this job.
POOP, they need interior elevations for millwork design.
Wurdan, unfortunately I am not Revit savvy as my background is more inline with Graphisoft's ArchiCAD which is a software Revit basically mimics.
This will definitely take me longer than a day given the amount of detail wants included in it. I am going to be charging $50/hr and she is very much okay with it.
Brendan
I have been in my own for the past 7 years in the LA area. A measured set of drawings like you described usually brings me around 3k. I use Archicad also and find it perfect for any type of project. You have to charge for your experience along with overhead and you will do fine.
Ross
Ross,
Thanks so much for your input. I gave the firm a breakdown of required drawings, sheet set count, required drawings @ $50/hr. I estimated it would take me about 40 hours or so to complete the set and they seem to be okay with it.
They are also interested in having me generate 3d views/rednerings for the project as well.
I would like to produce the drawings in ArchiCAD but they specifically requested I do the drawings in Autocad. I don't want to deal with the hassle of producing in ArchiCad, then exporting to Autocad and having to edit the linetypes, layers, etc....always a big headache.
Have you run into any snags or shortcomings when producing drawings for clients using Archicad?
I would never input data in the field. You need a hard copy to which you can refer - preferably with lots of notes all over it. Redundancy is good, in this case. Can often save you from a trip back.
Brendan
I always build the model in Archicad and produce my working drawings from the model. That way I have all options available. Then I save all my dwg files from the working drawings and send to consultants. Archicad allows you to save all drawings in autocad format. I have never had an issue with it. Everything you need is in the program you have. The problem is that if you end up having to look for a job with another firm your basically screwed if you don't know autocad. But it sounds like you don't want to be a cad monkey anymore so just kick ass in Archicad and work for yourself.
Ross
I have had issues with exporting out to DWGs in the past. It makes it more difficult for the drawings to be edited in the future within AutoCAD especially if you have used filles or zones within ArchiCad, but it seems this has never been an issue for you.
Do you have your own business? Do you consult for firms? How do you find yourself getting projects? What type of projects do you generally get?
I do alot of this work in NYC for a living now. 6hrs to measure, 8 to draw sounds about right to me for this space but you have to know what you're doing to get it done correctly and efficiently. Use a laser measure and old-fashioned pen and paper if you're expecting a complex space with funky angles and lots of wall projections and fiddly details. Do it on computer if the space is clean, relatively new and simple.
Be sure you factor in time spent getting to and from the site, time/money spent making plots and the costs of all the ancillaries (including a meal during your site visit) into your fee. Consider the opportunity costs of the job relative to other work you could be doing.
Hey Brendan
Seems like your getting some great input. The last guy said it well. I have been out on my own since 06. I have made it through these brutal last 4 years. I also contract to other firms because of my ability to use Archicad. There are lots of firms who don't have a clue about modeling and it's potential. Seek out a couple of good contractors (with integrity), you can work together to bring more work in also. I can always help a contractor with enlarging his scope of work because I can better help his clients visualize the project and help educate them on the possibilities of their potential project. All my projects are referal based. Doing quality work for clients and contractors gets all the projects I need. Archicad and it's modeling ability allow me to really work one on one with the client. They get exactly what we model. True success come from communication. ALWAYS have all meetings with clients involved. It may be time consuming but if everything is on the table (owning my own mistakes) shows that you are an honest person with only your clients well being in mind. Never let a contractor pull you to the side to discuss a problem with the design. That shows that he doesn't have the clients best interest in mind. My main business is relatively small custom homes, remodels (large and small), and commercial tenant improvements.
Thanks so much for everyone's opinions and advice!!! This has been a very informative and interesting discussion that has helped me out greatly.
Now I just hope I can continue to pull in work and not have to rely on working for a firm, which is something I am currently trying to avoid while I study for my exams. I am also very hopeful that I can grow my network to a point where I can sustain myself without having to rely on working for someone else.
Goodluck to all!
Dear quizzical,
Thank you for posting the link. uUnfortunately I can`t download it, if you email it to me I would really appreciate. I need to give a proposal for a client for suveying a 24 story building in NYC.
For the others, I also I would appreciate it you have anything helpfull, the purpose of my survey is to privide a layouts for the installation of a fire alarm system for the entire building, including the cellar,
email. [email protected]
thank you all
I am doing shop drawings from architectural drawings for an aluminum company for all doors and windows on a project.
can anyone give me an idea of how much I should charge... I am doing this as a side job.
Thanks everyone for the great discussion above, very informative and helpful for those of us just starting to do work on our own (even 3 years later).
I did the freelance thing for a about 3 yrs during the great depression era. Many of my jobs were to produce AS-BUILT sets for other architects/builders (btw above definitions are somewhat wrong) and got really good at it.
A laser tape is a must, along with a photo camara. I could measure a single story in 2 hrs and a 3 story in about 4-5 hrs and yes, any good cad monkey can rip sketches in a 1 day work (8 hrs) for plans other for interiors but not more.
Multiply that for your hourly rate plus mileage and that's your estimate. Client doesn't have to overpay your deficiencies imho.
There's no such thing as a laser tape but it is term popularized by ignorants.
laser distance measure or handheld laser-based EDM to more correct. EDM means Electronic Distance Meter (EDM System or EDM Instrument where the M means Measurement)
What is it that you need, Grumpy Grizzly?
GrumpGriz... There are several applications you can download on your phone/ipad that allow you to capture existing conditions on your device via the devices camera rotating around the room. Is this what you are talking about?
There are also more high-end laser distance measuring devices that also take pictures as you measure with the laser and compile the information together.
Although, I am not exactly sure what you are looking for.
In addition, there is also software that will take photos and generate 3d model of the space. Do a few measurements and you can generate a virtual 1:1 scale 3d model of the building or space inside. This technique is based photogrammetry for what is image based modeling. A relatively few measurements are needed for proper scaling. As for profiles, you can probably do that adequately with a decent profile tool.
Lmao, no Rick no. It isn't as simple as "Lets take a few photos and get an accurate model.
Archiwutm8,
Did I say few photos? Now, you are putting words in that I didn't say. Try reading when you aren't drunk.
I think the only time here that I said few had to do with measurements of the building. Its for measurement controls on 3-axis.
I was referring to take photos as in taking photos as an input data from which the software will through process generate a 3d model from the image.
I DID NOT WRITE ANYTHING ABOUT THE PROCESS OR HOW THE USE THE SOFTWARE. AS IT IS, WE HAVE DIFFERENT SOFTWARE PRODUCTS WITH VARYING DEGREES OF COMPLEXITY OF USE. I INTENTIONALLY KEPT THE POST SIMPLE AND TO THE POINT.
I WASN'T WRITING A THESIS ON HOW TO USE THE SOFTWARE TO MAKE THE 3-D MODEL. IT IS NOT SOMETHING WE CAN USE ARCHINECT AS A PLATFORM TO DELIVER THIS MEDIUM. TEACHING IS SOMETHING THIS FORUM IS A POOR MEDIUM. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HAS TO BE DONE IN PERSON OR VIA PRIVATE COMMUNICATION. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO EFFECTIVELY TEACH THIS STUFF WITH THE WHOLE PEANUT GALLERY, HERE TO DERAIL ANY EFFECTIVENESS. THE FORUM CULTURE GETS IN THE WAY OF THAT.
PS: I'm confident Grizzly here knows it's more involved to do these things than just take a few photos press a magic button and few magical seconds later a perfectly accurate (not distorted but accurate to shape, form, proportions,etc.) and then with a few measurements from the field to then scale the 3d model in CAD it be perfect dimensioned.
It takes some work in making sure the 3d model isn't distorted garbage. I'm sure Grizzly knows, life isn't THAT simple that it can be just a magical click of a button. Just as he knows that architecture just doesn't happen by a click of a button. Architectural design involves a lot of work that was designed by the Architect/Designer.
Right you are Rick, I've been doing drafting for right at 38 years now.. (Yikes, I feel really old now).
Not old yet. :-)
When you been playing the game since ol' the 2000th century B.C.
As for old school, I've done the old fashion, hand drafting. Give me enough time and a whirl, I'd do hand drafted plans and probably still don't need an engineer that will probably use some computer generated spit out and affix a stamp.
I'll have to get to the rest tomorrow given it's 2:05AM, where I am in Astoria, Oregon.
Grizzly,
I know where you are referring to. While the some of the peanut gallery might not.
I been there before. As well as Portland, Oregon. I see WA state every day just looking out the front door. (As long as it isn't too foggy)
do you guys ever use a scanner for as builts? we have one at my office here and use it fairly often, basically put it in the middle of a room and it laser scans every surface, pretty slick. only fiendish are cost and it creates huge files
Shuellmi are you referring to cloud point scanning?
Lately I have been bringing my laptop to the field and creating the drawing on-site, making sure I am methodical with the information I capture. I input all the info into ArchiCAD, which is another BIM based software. In doing this, I have all the proper window/door/sill/head heights along with accurate floor to ceiling heights. This also reduces the amount of time sketching in-field then translating those sketches into the virtual world.
I believe there are cheap versions which might work well for small interior spaces as opposed to the 100k versions
90% accurate in Revit? I Laugh. I do laser scanning and revit as built for a living in a surveying company, any questions just ask, I may answer.
has anyone used something like apex sketch or other tablet software to sketch the plan on a tablet instead of paper and pencil? a tablet can zoom in and out, which is a big advantage over pencil and paper. i would think bringing a laptop and drafting straight to autocad while you measure could be slow and cumbersome.
FWIW... We used to measure by hand / laser distance meter, and sketch, and draft or model.Super slow, wasn't accurate, and the client couldn't relate or get excited about their project.
Today we use ArchiCAD and Point Cloud modeling for "As-Builts." Point Cloud scanning has been a great evolution to our work flow and has landed us quite a few gigs with other AEC and construction firms across the country who see the value in our process.
ArcFlo where are you located? We too use ArchiCad I have considered using point cloud at one point but the models become fairly heavy, no?
ARCFLO is in SLC, UT. If the point cloud data is post processed correctly, the LCFs in ArchiCAD work great. We have some projects with nearly 200 combined LCFs containing point cloud data. Hardware might be something to consider. FWIW, we use enterprise grade workstations with Windows OS.
Wow Grumpy you finally found it! I have an as-built side job coming up next week--may have to download and fiddle around with this thing. Thanks for coming back and sharing--that's really helpful of you!
rather uninformed here...really appreciate discussions like this. What about an app like room scan.. just used it to measure a few walls at home, you just walk around the room, put the phone on the walls sequentially, measures and connects the walls...has some powerful features, which I need to figure out..
Hi Guys,
I'm new here in this forum, Thank you for the information provided.
I live in the Houston, TX area, I have doing as-built surveys since 1996, (yes old school as well), I'm using Hilti/Leica laser meters, Asus laptops, Ricoh 360 cameras, Nikon still and 12 shoot cameras.
I do as-built surveys and cad drafting for a living, from my home, some months are very good, some are pure famine, you know the tune (Oh Lord I'm stuck in Lodi again :) I do residential but mostly Banks, Restaurants, Coffee Shops, Retail Store (big box) and vendors inside Macy's, Dillard's and other
I have been working as a remote contractor with some companies located in California and New York and sometimes they don't understand the distances among the cities in Texas or the traffic in the Houston Area; I tell you this because they don't want to pay for Travel Time and I just simply can't afford that
I would appreciate if you can share your experiences with me.
I checked the federal mileage rate that is $0.54 per mile using your own vehicle, and per-diem according to the city doing the job.
*Question 1: How much (hourly rate) for your time do you charge going back and forth to the survey site? or how you calculate mileage and travel time costs?
A month ago a company in Colorado contacted me, asking to work for them as a as-built architectural surveyor (remote contractor) in the Texas area, this company says they set the prices by survey (flat fee), they pay you until the client pay them, and besides they are asking for a General Liability Insurance as a drafter, I have requested quotes and they are between $950 and $1,200 a year
*Question 2: Have you dealt with this kind of insurance or situation before?
There is a company in California, they do as-builts and they need surveyors to go to measure some restaurants in Florida, (these are in average 5,500 sqft) and they required using your own equipment: floor plan, RCP, ext/int elevations, furniture Plan, Door/Window schedule, 360 Photo Plan, cover sheet, wall sections, to go area, bar and bathroom elevations, etc. we are talking about 16 sheets in total; they pay the Travel Costs and give you two weeks to go there and finish the drafting; they pay $1,200 flat fee for your labor (of course they will send you a 1099 for taxes at the end of the year)
Doing the math 1200/80 hrs is $15/hr before taxes, overhead, use of equipment, etc
*Question 3: What would you respond to this company? Please help
Thank you so much in advance for your answers!
Thanks, sounds good!
$1,200 for 16 sheets? I know I skimmed it, but my reading comprehension must not be what it once was...
Yes, you are right; I had to say no thanks and I requested $4500 each of the seven as-builts along florida, but they were looking for what they called 'weak surveyors'
Don't know if Grumpy Grizzly is still watching this, but I'm wondering if you're still using the Orthograph app for your as built drawings? I'm looking at it now for my own work and am looking to hear from real world users how well they like it.
Cheers.
Thanks for the feedback, GG. I was playing around with my Autocad Mobile app on my tablet with my new Leica Disto and it seemed to work quite well. The mobile app is a little tricky but I suspect it comes easier with practice, though I could probably work faster using my laptop and full blown autocad but I think that becomes a bit cumbersome to carry around on site, while the tablet is pretty easy to carry. I'd like to be able to do something that is fast and simple like the floor plan measuring companies do for real estate marketing.
I’ve only been able to have it interact with my iPad using AutoCad Mobile. I believe there are transfer softwares available for Windows PCs that are linked to on the Leica site. Nothing for Apple machines though. Both my iPhone and iPad have Bluetooth 4 so I lucked out on the compatibility with the Disto.