Hi, I'm a 20 year old architectural engineering student (year 2) from Egypt, and I'm coming to America so I have to start it all over, but since I don't like many things in engineering and I like cad, visual training and design a lot, I thought of getting an associate's degree in architectural drafting instead of a BS in architectural engineering to start working early and gain experience and so, but yet I don't know all about the career of a drafter and this transformation from a BS to AS is really scary for me, i don't want to regret this decision and after like five years or so I don't want to find myself saying if only I put on extra effort and went for architectural engineering, I don't know about the respect people give to engineers and in the other side to draftsmen, and most important to a convertor/transformer from a bachelor's degree holder to an associates degree holder, I know the salary of draftsmen are less than the salary of engineers but what I'm talking about is respect from the surrounding people and from myself, I want to know also the ability to continue my studies after this AS and are the job opportunities great, specially in California, What do you see, I need your opinions on that matter, please don't give offensive/extremely negative replies, Thanks a lot.
Beshoy Adel
Mar 11, 13 11:53 am
By the way I'm great at math, and I like it very much, my grades the last semester were good too ( three Bs and two Cs) I got As in design and Cad... so I'm afraid of letting the effort be lost, but I'm also afraid of finishing something I don't completely like.
Znaika
Mar 11, 13 12:32 pm
It would make more sense to apply into a Masters of Architecture program. That would take you around three years and cost you a foot or a leg, but if you like it, it's worth it.
CrazyHouseCat
Mar 11, 13 4:03 pm
Bob,
I’m an architect in California. From what I can see, architectural drafter is becoming less and less common. The process of creating a building is becoming so integrated. The old school model of designer sketch, architect figure out how it’s built and a drafter converts into hardline (CAD or otherwise) is so outdated. I’ve not seen of this “delivery” model being in use except in very small residential firms.
In terms of job, as a drafter, you’ll have high school graduates who’s only taken a couple of CAD classes, as well as people who actually have accredited degrees in architecture but is desperate to find any work in architecture, competing with you for what little “drafting” position that’s available.
I honestly don’t know what architectural engineers do. It seems not specific enough to be one of our usual group of consultants (structural, mechanical, electrical, etc.), but also not part of the architectural design and technical side of things….
If you have to start over (in terms of academic credits, I assume), why is architectural drafting or engineering your only options? Why not architecture period? You’ll get to design, draw (CAD), model (BIM) as well as figure stuff out.
s=r*(theta)
Mar 11, 13 4:27 pm
@CrazyHouseCat
"From what I can see, architectural drafter is becoming less and less common"
where do you see this at? imho, i dont see the architectural drafter position becoming obsolete. there is always a need for drafters through the entire architectural process w/ emphasis on production. i would say it seems a college grad may have a very slight advantage by having some knowledge of materials and construction; but as far as drafting conventions and nomenclature, I agree high school students and tech school grads may be able to keep up, after all less than 20% of the built environment was actually done by college grads anyway. (Architecture and drafting just recently transition from a trade)
CrazyHouseCat
Mar 11, 13 7:24 pm
Tmston2,
Maybe we have somewhat different interpretation on what constitute “drafting”. I’m interpreting “drafting” not as “production” but as “re-production” of someone else’s thinking, into hardline, which is what I assumes (maybe not correctly so) OP’s associate degree in drafting would entail.
I would not confuse architectural “production” with “drafting”. I’m a project architect, and I do fair amount of production in resolving and documenting my design intents. I don’t agree with the practice of sketch out things in every detail and hand it out to “interns” and have them reproduce it brainlessly. That’s not how we should be mentoring the next generation of architects. I usually sit down with them, walk them through the problem, explain the solution and let them figure out parts of it in a first pass and redline it with them. The “interns” are generally architecture grads with design and technical understanding, and are capable of solving architectural problem. For example, I expect to point them to a piece of code and have them figure out a toilet layout before I review it for compliance. But I would not feel confident doing so with a “drafter” in the strictest sense…..
Especially in a BIM environment (to which our profession is inevitably headed), everything is related and thus affect everything else. We need architects who can think holistically to place building elements. I honestly believe strict drafting is a dwindling career path.
s=r*(theta)
Mar 11, 13 9:38 pm
@CrazyHouseCat
I dont understand how you are get anything done, sitting down all day sketching details & mentoring recent Grads? Please explain your work flow & deadlines?
Im not a licensed architect (yet), but i have spearheaded projects when the pm's have gotten busy with larger projects. I also started my career as a drafter, working in architecture w/ 4yrs high school drafting & 1.5yrs jr. college which wasnt all that helpful. Initially i was given redlines, sketches to take to SD/ DD, DD's to take to CD's, and sketches of more complex sections & details. Most architects i worked w/ as a drafter in chicago expect you as a drafter to have some construction sense, & as stated previously drafting conventions & nomenclature which most recent grads dont have. Because you dont really "draft" in college. Even when i was in a pseudo pm state, i was asigned one drafter & wish i had the time to show them how to do things properly, by the time i got my work done & re did all the incorrect things the drafter did, i had absolutely no time to explain to them how to get it done properly.
s=r*(theta)
Mar 12, 13 7:04 am
@bob2013
I agree w/ CrazyHouseCat guy in the sense, if you are concern about what your colleagues think of you, pursuing an arch. Degree from a well name school should do the trick.
If you are focused on a career, then finish the B.arch
If you want to get ahead and start makkng money , finish the A.S.
The thing with the 2yr is that when the economy slows down you will be the first to go
CrazyHouseCat
Mar 12, 13 12:44 pm
Tmston2,
Your background story is very interesting. It is quite a different approach to project delivery. I wonder if it’s because of the project being done in CAD?
I’ve never done a project in CAD. I was “raised” on BIM, and 30% of my projects are IPD / design built. The fact of the matter is that I don’t need a drafter, I can produce in BIM / Revit faster myself than sketching and handing off to a “drafter” for reproduction. The majority of time spend on projects are spent figuring stuff out and coordinating with consultants and contractors. The production bit is rather minor (once things are figured out) and "drafting" is really done along the way. The person figuring things out should be the same person modeling and detailing in BIM, and not a two step process. The only way for me to get anything done is to invest some time in mentoring others and expect them become architects rapidly and take away part of the puzzle, own it, and figure out on their own. Degrees and licensure aside, if that's what you do on a project, you are not a drafter, you are an architect.
I can definitely see the validity in your firm's approach in the past. But I believe our profession is heading away from that delivery model.
matt1
Dec 6, 20 11:07 pm
I am currently a cad drafter which I went to school for 2 years to earn a associate of occupation degree in computer aid design: architecture and mechanical engineering. First off we don’t reproduce anything. We work WITH and NOT for architects. We take the ideas of architects or engineers and turned them into technical drawings. In school I’ve learn to think like an architect and engineer which helps the architect or engineer to figuring out things when reading floor plans or mechanical object to solve a design problem so I learned how the design process works and what’s involved. Ive
learned how to do drafting manually and computerized. Ive learned autocad and revit. Drafters ARE NOT copy machines. We are critical and creative valuable employees to architects and engineers. We visit job sites. I learned construction methods, building codes, laws regarding to everything involved in this kind of field. the only thing we don’t do is heavy math and can’t stamp anything on the blue print. We help architects and engineers we are not their copy machines. Another thing i want point out is that drafting is still booming today. There’s a high need for drafters in ny, nj ct, etc.
matt1
Dec 6, 20 11:12 pm
Architects and engineers can’t do everything their own which is why drafters is a high need. Ive learned to sketch just as a architect and think critically and creatively about design and technically about how things are built.
zonker
Mar 12, 13 12:51 pm
"The person figuring things out should be the same person modeling and detailing in BIM, and not a two step process. The only way for me to get anything done is to invest some time in mentoring others and expect them become architects rapidly and take away part of the puzzle, own it, and figure out on their own. Degrees and licensure aside, if that's what you do on a project, you are not a drafter, you are an architect."
Thats what I do - only I am called a modeler -
s=r*(theta)
Mar 12, 13 5:13 pm
what is this BIM you speak of?
@crazyhousecat
im not trying to be a "Richard", but i have never done a project in bim; so i may have spoken presumptuously.
if bim gives me the opportunity to sit and sketch details w/ interns, I should definitely look into this. on the flip side, i still view the software skill, how a building goes together, & drawing conventions as all separate entities, how does bim resolve these?
For example, i once worked with a Arch. Grad who had been working for two years since graduation (who claim he was a Bim guru) we were on site taking measurements, and i asked him to run the tape to the corner of the eifs, he replied what is that? i said the stucco stuff, and He replied what is that, i was like, you are joking rite? he was like no, he never knew what that stuff was called? i was like, you gotta be kidding me!!
matt1
Dec 6, 20 11:22 pm
beshoy, if you want to take up drafting I think that’s a awesome choice! Get your 2 year associates degree in drafting and get your drafting certification from the American drafting association although not mandatory but it’s also a another good way to show your credentials. It shows you are a master at drafting and design. Drafting is a good starting point and it can lead up to being an architect or engineer. So continue your education in B.Arch architecture program or engineer while working as a drafter in a architectural firm. You’ll have a great head on your shoulders in the building field.
matt1
Dec 6, 20 11:25 pm
Also, you can also work as a project manager with a 2 year Drafting degree and 5 years experience.
matt1
Dec 6, 20 11:33 pm
beshoy also remember as a drafter you are not a copy machine. You are a critical and creative thinker. Think about how things are built from multiple perspectives. Learn to visualize 2D objects or houses into 3D. Learn about 3D printing. Practice sketching everyday and learn to measure and use and MASTER SCALES: the metric, architecture and engineering scale. Think critically and creatively in your projects. Make sure everything is accurate and always find problems and provide solutions when reading your blue prints.
randomised
Dec 7, 20 2:23 am
This thread is almost 8 years old, I’m sure they figured it all out by now.
Hi, I'm a 20 year old architectural engineering student (year 2) from Egypt, and I'm coming to America so I have to start it all over, but since I don't like many things in engineering and I like cad, visual training and design a lot, I thought of getting an associate's degree in architectural drafting instead of a BS in architectural engineering to start working early and gain experience and so, but yet I don't know all about the career of a drafter and this transformation from a BS to AS is really scary for me, i don't want to regret this decision and after like five years or so I don't want to find myself saying if only I put on extra effort and went for architectural engineering, I don't know about the respect people give to engineers and in the other side to draftsmen, and most important to a convertor/transformer from a bachelor's degree holder to an associates degree holder, I know the salary of draftsmen are less than the salary of engineers but what I'm talking about is respect from the surrounding people and from myself, I want to know also the ability to continue my studies after this AS and are the job opportunities great, specially in California, What do you see, I need your opinions on that matter, please don't give offensive/extremely negative replies, Thanks a lot.
By the way I'm great at math, and I like it very much, my grades the last semester were good too ( three Bs and two Cs) I got As in design and Cad... so I'm afraid of letting the effort be lost, but I'm also afraid of finishing something I don't completely like.
It would make more sense to apply into a Masters of Architecture program. That would take you around three years and cost you a foot or a leg, but if you like it, it's worth it.
Bob,
I’m an architect in California. From what I can see, architectural drafter is becoming less and less common. The process of creating a building is becoming so integrated. The old school model of designer sketch, architect figure out how it’s built and a drafter converts into hardline (CAD or otherwise) is so outdated. I’ve not seen of this “delivery” model being in use except in very small residential firms.
In terms of job, as a drafter, you’ll have high school graduates who’s only taken a couple of CAD classes, as well as people who actually have accredited degrees in architecture but is desperate to find any work in architecture, competing with you for what little “drafting” position that’s available.
I honestly don’t know what architectural engineers do. It seems not specific enough to be one of our usual group of consultants (structural, mechanical, electrical, etc.), but also not part of the architectural design and technical side of things….
If you have to start over (in terms of academic credits, I assume), why is architectural drafting or engineering your only options? Why not architecture period? You’ll get to design, draw (CAD), model (BIM) as well as figure stuff out.
@CrazyHouseCat
"From what I can see, architectural drafter is becoming less and less common"
where do you see this at? imho, i dont see the architectural drafter position becoming obsolete. there is always a need for drafters through the entire architectural process w/ emphasis on production. i would say it seems a college grad may have a very slight advantage by having some knowledge of materials and construction; but as far as drafting conventions and nomenclature, I agree high school students and tech school grads may be able to keep up, after all less than 20% of the built environment was actually done by college grads anyway. (Architecture and drafting just recently transition from a trade)
Tmston2,
Maybe we have somewhat different interpretation on what constitute “drafting”. I’m interpreting “drafting” not as “production” but as “re-production” of someone else’s thinking, into hardline, which is what I assumes (maybe not correctly so) OP’s associate degree in drafting would entail.
I would not confuse architectural “production” with “drafting”. I’m a project architect, and I do fair amount of production in resolving and documenting my design intents. I don’t agree with the practice of sketch out things in every detail and hand it out to “interns” and have them reproduce it brainlessly. That’s not how we should be mentoring the next generation of architects. I usually sit down with them, walk them through the problem, explain the solution and let them figure out parts of it in a first pass and redline it with them. The “interns” are generally architecture grads with design and technical understanding, and are capable of solving architectural problem. For example, I expect to point them to a piece of code and have them figure out a toilet layout before I review it for compliance. But I would not feel confident doing so with a “drafter” in the strictest sense…..
Especially in a BIM environment (to which our profession is inevitably headed), everything is related and thus affect everything else. We need architects who can think holistically to place building elements. I honestly believe strict drafting is a dwindling career path.
@CrazyHouseCat
I dont understand how you are get anything done, sitting down all day sketching details & mentoring recent Grads? Please explain your work flow & deadlines?
Im not a licensed architect (yet), but i have spearheaded projects when the pm's have gotten busy with larger projects. I also started my career as a drafter, working in architecture w/ 4yrs high school drafting & 1.5yrs jr. college which wasnt all that helpful. Initially i was given redlines, sketches to take to SD/ DD, DD's to take to CD's, and sketches of more complex sections & details. Most architects i worked w/ as a drafter in chicago expect you as a drafter to have some construction sense, & as stated previously drafting conventions & nomenclature which most recent grads dont have. Because you dont really "draft" in college. Even when i was in a pseudo pm state, i was asigned one drafter & wish i had the time to show them how to do things properly, by the time i got my work done & re did all the incorrect things the drafter did, i had absolutely no time to explain to them how to get it done properly.
@bob2013
I agree w/ CrazyHouseCat guy in the sense, if you are concern about what your colleagues think of you, pursuing an arch. Degree from a well name school should do the trick.
If you are focused on a career, then finish the B.arch
If you want to get ahead and start makkng money , finish the A.S.
The thing with the 2yr is that when the economy slows down you will be the first to go
Tmston2,
Your background story is very interesting. It is quite a different approach to project delivery. I wonder if it’s because of the project being done in CAD?
I’ve never done a project in CAD. I was “raised” on BIM, and 30% of my projects are IPD / design built. The fact of the matter is that I don’t need a drafter, I can produce in BIM / Revit faster myself than sketching and handing off to a “drafter” for reproduction. The majority of time spend on projects are spent figuring stuff out and coordinating with consultants and contractors. The production bit is rather minor (once things are figured out) and "drafting" is really done along the way. The person figuring things out should be the same person modeling and detailing in BIM, and not a two step process. The only way for me to get anything done is to invest some time in mentoring others and expect them become architects rapidly and take away part of the puzzle, own it, and figure out on their own. Degrees and licensure aside, if that's what you do on a project, you are not a drafter, you are an architect.
I can definitely see the validity in your firm's approach in the past. But I believe our profession is heading away from that delivery model.
I am currently a cad drafter which I went to school for 2 years to earn a associate of occupation degree in computer aid design: architecture and mechanical engineering. First off we don’t reproduce anything. We work WITH and NOT for architects. We take the ideas of architects or engineers and turned them into technical drawings. In school I’ve learn to think like an architect and engineer which helps the architect or engineer to figuring out things when reading floor plans or mechanical object to solve a design problem so I learned how the design process works and what’s involved. Ive
learned how to do drafting manually and computerized. Ive learned autocad and revit. Drafters ARE NOT copy machines. We are critical and creative valuable employees to architects and engineers. We visit job sites. I learned construction methods, building codes, laws regarding to everything involved in this kind of field. the only thing we don’t do is heavy math and can’t stamp anything on the blue print. We help architects and engineers we are not their copy machines. Another thing i want point out is that drafting is still booming today. There’s a high need for drafters in ny, nj ct, etc.
Architects and engineers can’t do everything their own which is why drafters is a high need. Ive learned to sketch just as a architect and think critically and creatively about design and technically about how things are built.
"The person figuring things out should be the same person modeling and detailing in BIM, and not a two step process. The only way for me to get anything done is to invest some time in mentoring others and expect them become architects rapidly and take away part of the puzzle, own it, and figure out on their own. Degrees and licensure aside, if that's what you do on a project, you are not a drafter, you are an architect."
Thats what I do - only I am called a modeler -
what is this BIM you speak of?
@crazyhousecat
im not trying to be a "Richard", but i have never done a project in bim; so i may have spoken presumptuously.
if bim gives me the opportunity to sit and sketch details w/ interns, I should definitely look into this. on the flip side, i still view the software skill, how a building goes together, & drawing conventions as all separate entities, how does bim resolve these?
For example, i once worked with a Arch. Grad who had been working for two years since graduation (who claim he was a Bim guru) we were on site taking measurements, and i asked him to run the tape to the corner of the eifs, he replied what is that? i said the stucco stuff, and He replied what is that, i was like, you are joking rite? he was like no, he never knew what that stuff was called? i was like, you gotta be kidding me!!
beshoy, if you want to take up drafting I think that’s a awesome choice! Get your 2 year associates degree in drafting and get your drafting certification from the American drafting association although not mandatory but it’s also a another good way to show your credentials. It shows you are a master at drafting and design. Drafting is a good starting point and it can lead up to being an architect or engineer. So continue your education in B.Arch architecture program or engineer while working as a drafter in a architectural firm. You’ll have a great head on your shoulders in the building field.
Also, you can also work as a project manager with a 2 year Drafting degree and 5 years experience.
beshoy also remember as a drafter you are not a copy machine. You are a critical and creative thinker. Think about how things are built from multiple perspectives. Learn to visualize 2D objects or houses into 3D. Learn about 3D printing. Practice sketching everyday and learn to measure and use and MASTER SCALES: the metric, architecture and engineering scale. Think critically and creatively in your projects. Make sure everything is accurate and always find problems and provide solutions when reading your blue prints.
This thread is almost 8 years old, I’m sure they figured it all out by now.
8 years old, but much here is still true.