Why does taking Environmental Design for my Bachelor Degree take longer to get licensed?
Erin Williams
Nov 25, 07 6:46 pm
because it is not a professional degree
Assassin
Nov 25, 07 6:58 pm
What do you mean by it is not a professional degree? I am applying for transfer to any university or a four-year college. I want to take Architecture as my major and in the future as my career. But there are some schools that offer ENVD or Architectural Studies as their undergraduate programs, so I am not sure whether they are the same as the B.ARCH major.
ff33º
Nov 25, 07 7:11 pm
ENVD (4 yr BA) is generally a variable and more flexible curriculum with less emphasis on the structures, systems or with less studios than the usual BArch.
When you go onto MArch.....you won;t qualify for MArch II w/ and ENVD....but you may have a chance of MArch I AP.
Erin Williams
Nov 25, 07 7:19 pm
A B.Arch is not just a major, it is a whole different degree, and takes five years, not four. Any four-year program will take you longer than a five year B.Arch. No, ENVD or Architectural studies is not the same thing.
Gloominati
Nov 25, 07 7:22 pm
A B.Arch is usually a 5-year professional degree, accredited by NAAB. An architecture major in a four-year program (like a BA, BFA, ENVD, AB, BS, etc.) is typically not an accredited professional degree.
The majority of states now require a professional degree as a criterion for licensing/registration as an architect. So most people who get four-year degrees (assuming they still want to continue toward becoming architects) continue on to an M.Arch program, which will take another 1 to 3.5 years, depending on the type of undergrad program, the length of the major, the policies and programs of the school you choose for your M.Arch, etc. The most typical route for someone with a 4-year undergrad architecture major is to do a 2 or 2.5 year M.Arch program.
It's also possible to major in absolutely anything else as an undergrad and then do an M.Arch program for non-architecture majors. This type of M.Arch program will usually take 3 to 4 years.
It is also still possible to get licensed without an NAAB-accredited degree in approximately 17 states, but this can require a much longer internship period (up to 13 years in some cases!), limits your ability to get licensed in other states, and is becoming a much less common path.
There are a lot of pros and cons of any of these routes. But there are also lots of other threads about this, so you may want to do a search. The B.Arch vs. M.Arch issue comes up frequently.
Assassin
Nov 25, 07 7:23 pm
I have poor knowledge of the degrees like M.ARCH II w/ and ENVD and M.ARCH I AP. Can someone clarify that for me? What does mean ENVD is not a professional degree?
ff33º
Nov 25, 07 7:27 pm
Formerly,
I keep hearing my friends saying that with the ENVD degree ( I have one)... that at menay "top school" applicants still only qualify for a 3 years MArch...which is why I dont recommend it....yo
like you said...you can major in anything....you still have the 3 years to do...
Assassin
Nov 25, 07 7:31 pm
What is Architectural Studies? For example, what do you learn in this major, and what is the difference between that and B.ARCH.
Steven Ward
Nov 25, 07 8:25 pm
assassin-
professional degree means any of a few different varieties that will allow you to become licensed. a four year degree with a major in architecture, for example, is not a professional degree because more schooling will be required in order for you to pursue licensure.
examples:
a b.arch is usu a 5yr degree that IS considered a professional degree.
you can get a 4yr non-professional degree and then go back for an m.arch professional degree in order to be eligible for licensure. in many cases your 4yr doesn't have to be a major in architecture at all, though this may make your m.arch take longer.
'architectural studies' may just be any one of several majors in architecture - professional or not.
it's confusing because there has been a splintering of degrees offered among the many different schools and they can be called different things and things of the same name can MEAN different things. best bet is to discuss your goals with an admissions person and make sure that the schools you pursue will actually provide the degree you're looking for.
Assassin
Nov 25, 07 8:45 pm
Thank you everyone for answering my questions so promptly. I have a better understanding on the different degrees now.
Gloominati
Nov 25, 07 8:54 pm
Formfunction33: it's correct that SOME "top" schools do not generally grant any advanced standing to people with 4-year undergrad degrees (it doesn't really matter if it's a ENVD, BA, or whatever) - so a person without a professional degree would do the 3 or 3.5 year program at those schools, regardless of their undergrad major.
It can also depend on the particular curriculum of your undergrad program - how many years of studio, etc., and what support courses are offered. You ability to get into the "2" part of a 4+2 program has more to do with the curriculum of your undergrad program than with the title of your major/degree.
I went to an M.Arch program that had that policy of no advanced standing for anyone - so I did a 3-year M.Arch after a 4-year undergrad architecture major. There were other "top" schools that I applied to that granted me a year of advanced standing (in other words a "4+2" status) but I chose to attend the program that seemed like the best fit, despite the length. It's not a decision I regret. But there are a lot of factors, and certainly if a person's main priority is to get out of school and into the working world as soon as possible the 5-year degree is usually a shorter path.
Assasin: there are a lot of undergrad architecture-related majors in 4-year programs: "architectural studies", "environmental design", "pre-architecture" are all examples of this. These programs aren't NAAB-accredited, so they can vary very widely from school to school. In some undergrad programs architecture-specific coursework starts freshman year, while in others students don't begin courses in the major until sophomore year, and may not take design studios until as late as junior or senior year. Some undergrad "architectural studies" programs are basically equivalent to the first 4 years of a B.Arch program, while others are not even studio-based and are more akin to art history majors with an architecture focus.
When you visit and talk with the schools you're considering, ask them about whether their grads typically go on to M.Arch programs, and at what level/what track they typically enter those programs.
will galloway
Nov 26, 07 1:24 am
very good advice formerly unknown....
my undergrad degree was bachelor of environmental design, but in canada, where b.arch is i think no longer even offered. it was a 3 yr degree with 1 year of foundation courses and a portfolio required to get in...as far as content goes it was heavy on technical architecture side, with engineering/statics courses, seerl math classes, building science courses and history, as well as a studio per term. as fas as i can tell it is no different in content from a barch (which it once was, i think). but you can't go on to become a licenced architect with it. all you would be qualified for is to draft. so it is not a "professional degree". for that you need to do an m.arch. in my case that meant 2 more years, for a total of 6 years, 5 of which were intensely architectural. In the end you get a m.arch, but spend as much time, so i thought it was a good deal.
as far as i can tell to be professional degree yo need 5 years minimum. if you want to work in UK or other RIBA-based country this is also important, cuz a part II architect requires 5 years education in architecture if you want reciprocity.
anyway, do what formerlyunknown says. is very good advice.
Assassin
Nov 26, 07 9:25 pm
Thank you for everyone's help and advice! They were all very helpful.
ff33º
Nov 26, 07 10:17 pm
I d be interested in knowing what you decide...
:-)
Assassin
Nov 26, 07 10:20 pm
That's great! I'll post my decision when I have made up my mind.
cocorel
Jun 22, 21 1:11 pm
If ENVD is the route chosen, what is the Masters Degree needed to be a partner in a firm down the road?
Non Sequitur
Jun 22, 21 1:44 pm
you don't need a degree to be a partner... that's not how that works.
Why does taking Environmental Design for my Bachelor Degree take longer to get licensed?
because it is not a professional degree
What do you mean by it is not a professional degree? I am applying for transfer to any university or a four-year college. I want to take Architecture as my major and in the future as my career. But there are some schools that offer ENVD or Architectural Studies as their undergraduate programs, so I am not sure whether they are the same as the B.ARCH major.
ENVD (4 yr BA) is generally a variable and more flexible curriculum with less emphasis on the structures, systems or with less studios than the usual BArch.
When you go onto MArch.....you won;t qualify for MArch II w/ and ENVD....but you may have a chance of MArch I AP.
A B.Arch is not just a major, it is a whole different degree, and takes five years, not four. Any four-year program will take you longer than a five year B.Arch. No, ENVD or Architectural studies is not the same thing.
A B.Arch is usually a 5-year professional degree, accredited by NAAB. An architecture major in a four-year program (like a BA, BFA, ENVD, AB, BS, etc.) is typically not an accredited professional degree.
The majority of states now require a professional degree as a criterion for licensing/registration as an architect. So most people who get four-year degrees (assuming they still want to continue toward becoming architects) continue on to an M.Arch program, which will take another 1 to 3.5 years, depending on the type of undergrad program, the length of the major, the policies and programs of the school you choose for your M.Arch, etc. The most typical route for someone with a 4-year undergrad architecture major is to do a 2 or 2.5 year M.Arch program.
It's also possible to major in absolutely anything else as an undergrad and then do an M.Arch program for non-architecture majors. This type of M.Arch program will usually take 3 to 4 years.
It is also still possible to get licensed without an NAAB-accredited degree in approximately 17 states, but this can require a much longer internship period (up to 13 years in some cases!), limits your ability to get licensed in other states, and is becoming a much less common path.
There are a lot of pros and cons of any of these routes. But there are also lots of other threads about this, so you may want to do a search. The B.Arch vs. M.Arch issue comes up frequently.
I have poor knowledge of the degrees like M.ARCH II w/ and ENVD and M.ARCH I AP. Can someone clarify that for me? What does mean ENVD is not a professional degree?
Formerly,
I keep hearing my friends saying that with the ENVD degree ( I have one)... that at menay "top school" applicants still only qualify for a 3 years MArch...which is why I dont recommend it....yo
like you said...you can major in anything....you still have the 3 years to do...
What is Architectural Studies? For example, what do you learn in this major, and what is the difference between that and B.ARCH.
assassin-
professional degree means any of a few different varieties that will allow you to become licensed. a four year degree with a major in architecture, for example, is not a professional degree because more schooling will be required in order for you to pursue licensure.
examples:
a b.arch is usu a 5yr degree that IS considered a professional degree.
you can get a 4yr non-professional degree and then go back for an m.arch professional degree in order to be eligible for licensure. in many cases your 4yr doesn't have to be a major in architecture at all, though this may make your m.arch take longer.
'architectural studies' may just be any one of several majors in architecture - professional or not.
it's confusing because there has been a splintering of degrees offered among the many different schools and they can be called different things and things of the same name can MEAN different things. best bet is to discuss your goals with an admissions person and make sure that the schools you pursue will actually provide the degree you're looking for.
Thank you everyone for answering my questions so promptly. I have a better understanding on the different degrees now.
Formfunction33: it's correct that SOME "top" schools do not generally grant any advanced standing to people with 4-year undergrad degrees (it doesn't really matter if it's a ENVD, BA, or whatever) - so a person without a professional degree would do the 3 or 3.5 year program at those schools, regardless of their undergrad major.
It can also depend on the particular curriculum of your undergrad program - how many years of studio, etc., and what support courses are offered. You ability to get into the "2" part of a 4+2 program has more to do with the curriculum of your undergrad program than with the title of your major/degree.
I went to an M.Arch program that had that policy of no advanced standing for anyone - so I did a 3-year M.Arch after a 4-year undergrad architecture major. There were other "top" schools that I applied to that granted me a year of advanced standing (in other words a "4+2" status) but I chose to attend the program that seemed like the best fit, despite the length. It's not a decision I regret. But there are a lot of factors, and certainly if a person's main priority is to get out of school and into the working world as soon as possible the 5-year degree is usually a shorter path.
Assasin: there are a lot of undergrad architecture-related majors in 4-year programs: "architectural studies", "environmental design", "pre-architecture" are all examples of this. These programs aren't NAAB-accredited, so they can vary very widely from school to school. In some undergrad programs architecture-specific coursework starts freshman year, while in others students don't begin courses in the major until sophomore year, and may not take design studios until as late as junior or senior year. Some undergrad "architectural studies" programs are basically equivalent to the first 4 years of a B.Arch program, while others are not even studio-based and are more akin to art history majors with an architecture focus.
When you visit and talk with the schools you're considering, ask them about whether their grads typically go on to M.Arch programs, and at what level/what track they typically enter those programs.
very good advice formerly unknown....
my undergrad degree was bachelor of environmental design, but in canada, where b.arch is i think no longer even offered. it was a 3 yr degree with 1 year of foundation courses and a portfolio required to get in...as far as content goes it was heavy on technical architecture side, with engineering/statics courses, seerl math classes, building science courses and history, as well as a studio per term. as fas as i can tell it is no different in content from a barch (which it once was, i think). but you can't go on to become a licenced architect with it. all you would be qualified for is to draft. so it is not a "professional degree". for that you need to do an m.arch. in my case that meant 2 more years, for a total of 6 years, 5 of which were intensely architectural. In the end you get a m.arch, but spend as much time, so i thought it was a good deal.
as far as i can tell to be professional degree yo need 5 years minimum. if you want to work in UK or other RIBA-based country this is also important, cuz a part II architect requires 5 years education in architecture if you want reciprocity.
anyway, do what formerlyunknown says. is very good advice.
Thank you for everyone's help and advice! They were all very helpful.
I d be interested in knowing what you decide...
:-)
That's great! I'll post my decision when I have made up my mind.
If ENVD is the route chosen, what is the Masters Degree needed to be a partner in a firm down the road?
you don't need a degree to be a partner... that's not how that works.