Does anybody know if there is anything like a class action lawsuit against Ncarb? Just wondering what are the options for disgruntled Ncarb customers...
outed
Oct 9, 07 7:02 pm
ummm....why oh why do we keep on having these threads????
forget suing ncarb. they're like the law. and you know the song....
Antisthenes
Oct 9, 07 7:12 pm
dance jorge dance
postal
Oct 9, 07 7:32 pm
sorry jorge, i think you just need to be a bit patient.
what would we sue for? did they hang a "satisfaction gauranteed" sign on their storefront?
montu
Oct 9, 07 8:50 pm
what is your complaint?
jorge_c
Oct 9, 07 8:58 pm
complaint: waiting for a year for my certification.
they always say that my IDP is completed, my material is being reviewed, they don't need to receive anything else from me, and that I'll be getting something in the mail in 2-4 weeks.
i've had this conversation about 6-8 times and i never get any more information than that.
i'm licensed in california and sometimes i wonder if this is complicating things...
Gloominati
Oct 9, 07 9:19 pm
1. Find out who you are talking to and who is handling your record. Ask them how to spell those names, so they know you're writing it down.
2. Call and email at least once per week to check on progress. Be polite but insistent.
3. Are you waiting for your certification because you are going to apply for reciprocity in another state? If so, make sure to tell that to whichever NCARB person you're dealing with. Tell them you're going to transmit your record to State X the instant that you get your certificate number.
4. Be aware that certification averages a 6 to 8 month wait for most people, by NCARB's own estimates. If there's anything unusual about your record (reported all your IDP retroactively? finished ARE before IDP?) it can take even longer.
scratches
Oct 10, 07 12:33 am
1. NCARB is not "the law." Your state licensing board is the law. Be sure to document your experience including taking notes of phone calls, copy your state board on any major communication with NCARB, and send an overall summary of the experience to your board once you're finished. Also copy your local/state AIA component on the final summary.
2. NCARB does not have a "satisfaction guaranteed" sign anywhere, but professional licensure is a requirement of your state government, and your state is subject to something called the U.S. Constitution. That may sound overblown, but the Constitution does guarantee you due process in any restraints on practicing a profession (economic liberty). This does not mean that the state board has violated your due process rights by making you go through NCARB, but it is almost certainly the legal theory under which you would make a claim.
3. You are not alone. And that should be both a comfort and a fear. A profession of creative problem solvers should demand better.
asnider830
Mar 3, 22 8:58 am
you are right, we should demand better.
quizzical
Oct 10, 07 9:27 am
if you really feel you have a case to support litigation, go ahead. but it sounds like you're tilting at windmils to me.
wouldn't a more professional approach be to contact the people who actually have some ability to fix these problems -- the people you speak with on the phone are, at best, clerical staff. you need to communicate with the people who control the purse strings and set policy.
take a look at this: NCARB Welcomes New Board of Directors -- you will note that every single member of the Board is a member of AIA -- if you also are an AIA member, the mailing address for every member of this board except James W. O’Brien, FAIA (I checked) is accessible through the AIA website (AIA Member Lookup) -- there's also a way there to send each of them an e-mail directly from that site.
Wouldn't a well written, tactful letter to each member of this board, explaining your situation and your frustration, be a good way to start?
No organization ever changes unless the people at the top start understanding the complaints of its constituents. If everybody here who has a complaint against NCARB took the time to contact the Board, I'm pretty sure they'd start to get the picture and improve their terrible service.
jorge_c
Oct 10, 07 1:01 pm
wow!
thank you all so much. your advice has gone a long way to make me feel better. finally i feel like a have a plan of action.
formerlyunknown, yes i'm waiting to apply for reciprocity in a state, so i'll notify ncarb right away. and yes, i finished my ARE before my IDP and i did report my IDP retroactively.
scratches, i talked to a former member of my state board yesterday about this. he had to wait for 6 months for his certification, and he repeated your advice verbatim.
quizzical, i agree that litigation (or threatening litigation) is not a good starting point and that all the actions listed above should be pursued before talking about lawsuits. so, i shouldn't have been so hysterical to begin with. it is still a maddening experience!
ih1542006
Oct 10, 07 1:40 pm
Jorge
Just to let you know. I followedthe letter of NCARB in doing internship, education, paying dues etc.. It took seven months for my certification to go thru. So it does take awhile. Year sounds like something in your records make be causing the delay. Also, somewhere inthe cert. process they require the state you intially became licensed in the respond with info so that might be causing a delay. I agree a year is excessive. Like the others have explained Call and ask questions about why it is taking so long. Above all be nice.
outed
Oct 10, 07 2:16 pm
jorge -
sorry to be so flip initially - probably an over-reaction as well.
ncarb has, remarkably, very little staff 'overhead' - almost everyone there is a caseworker or someone who processes paperwork. point being, they do go through every aspect of every application. they make calls to verify former work credit claims, check references, etc. and, if they have 1000 applications in any given year and it takes an average of 2-3 weeks to go through everything (you have to wait for people to call you back, etc.), then figure out how many applications they can do if they have 50 people working on all of them...
if you're going to contact a board member, contact scott veasey (sp on the last name?) - i've met him before and unloaded my own horror stories (and i've got some better than merely waiting). he's pretty sympathetic and willing to try and steer ncarb towards providing better customer service.
scratches
Oct 10, 07 10:40 pm
I agree about taking complaints to the top, but I also think that NCARB is a group of state licensing boards, not an organization of architects. So when you complain to NCARB, they quite literally don't care. Of course as individuals they care, and I'm sure that the Scott Veasy guy above was quite sympathetic (unless he starts to get 100 emails, in which case he'll be pissed at Archinect, not at NCARB).
But I'm also sure that state boards are the official place to lodge your complaints and to tell your stories. It is because of them that NCARB exists.
jorge_c
Oct 11, 07 1:07 pm
Studio43, i did have my state board send ncarb my license info directly at the beginning of the process (btw i have found the state board to be very responsive). ncarb took a long time to log it into my file, but at last it shows up when i talk to them.
jorge_c
Oct 11, 07 1:17 pm
laru, i wonder if ncarb should raise its fees to improve service...
pros-
speedier service
con-
pretty high fees already - california charged less, provided all that ncarb provides and more, and was more responsive and transparent. so, although the state board has other revenues (and maybe it's subsidised by the state), it still my only comparison point.
Does anybody know if there is anything like a class action lawsuit against Ncarb? Just wondering what are the options for disgruntled Ncarb customers...
ummm....why oh why do we keep on having these threads????
forget suing ncarb. they're like the law. and you know the song....
dance jorge dance
sorry jorge, i think you just need to be a bit patient.
what would we sue for? did they hang a "satisfaction gauranteed" sign on their storefront?
what is your complaint?
complaint: waiting for a year for my certification.
they always say that my IDP is completed, my material is being reviewed, they don't need to receive anything else from me, and that I'll be getting something in the mail in 2-4 weeks.
i've had this conversation about 6-8 times and i never get any more information than that.
i'm licensed in california and sometimes i wonder if this is complicating things...
1. Find out who you are talking to and who is handling your record. Ask them how to spell those names, so they know you're writing it down.
2. Call and email at least once per week to check on progress. Be polite but insistent.
3. Are you waiting for your certification because you are going to apply for reciprocity in another state? If so, make sure to tell that to whichever NCARB person you're dealing with. Tell them you're going to transmit your record to State X the instant that you get your certificate number.
4. Be aware that certification averages a 6 to 8 month wait for most people, by NCARB's own estimates. If there's anything unusual about your record (reported all your IDP retroactively? finished ARE before IDP?) it can take even longer.
1. NCARB is not "the law." Your state licensing board is the law. Be sure to document your experience including taking notes of phone calls, copy your state board on any major communication with NCARB, and send an overall summary of the experience to your board once you're finished. Also copy your local/state AIA component on the final summary.
2. NCARB does not have a "satisfaction guaranteed" sign anywhere, but professional licensure is a requirement of your state government, and your state is subject to something called the U.S. Constitution. That may sound overblown, but the Constitution does guarantee you due process in any restraints on practicing a profession (economic liberty). This does not mean that the state board has violated your due process rights by making you go through NCARB, but it is almost certainly the legal theory under which you would make a claim.
3. You are not alone. And that should be both a comfort and a fear. A profession of creative problem solvers should demand better.
you are right, we should demand better.
if you really feel you have a case to support litigation, go ahead. but it sounds like you're tilting at windmils to me.
wouldn't a more professional approach be to contact the people who actually have some ability to fix these problems -- the people you speak with on the phone are, at best, clerical staff. you need to communicate with the people who control the purse strings and set policy.
take a look at this: NCARB Welcomes New Board of Directors -- you will note that every single member of the Board is a member of AIA -- if you also are an AIA member, the mailing address for every member of this board except James W. O’Brien, FAIA (I checked) is accessible through the AIA website (AIA Member Lookup) -- there's also a way there to send each of them an e-mail directly from that site.
Wouldn't a well written, tactful letter to each member of this board, explaining your situation and your frustration, be a good way to start?
No organization ever changes unless the people at the top start understanding the complaints of its constituents. If everybody here who has a complaint against NCARB took the time to contact the Board, I'm pretty sure they'd start to get the picture and improve their terrible service.
wow!
thank you all so much. your advice has gone a long way to make me feel better. finally i feel like a have a plan of action.
formerlyunknown, yes i'm waiting to apply for reciprocity in a state, so i'll notify ncarb right away. and yes, i finished my ARE before my IDP and i did report my IDP retroactively.
scratches, i talked to a former member of my state board yesterday about this. he had to wait for 6 months for his certification, and he repeated your advice verbatim.
quizzical, i agree that litigation (or threatening litigation) is not a good starting point and that all the actions listed above should be pursued before talking about lawsuits. so, i shouldn't have been so hysterical to begin with. it is still a maddening experience!
Jorge
Just to let you know. I followedthe letter of NCARB in doing internship, education, paying dues etc.. It took seven months for my certification to go thru. So it does take awhile. Year sounds like something in your records make be causing the delay. Also, somewhere inthe cert. process they require the state you intially became licensed in the respond with info so that might be causing a delay. I agree a year is excessive. Like the others have explained Call and ask questions about why it is taking so long. Above all be nice.
jorge -
sorry to be so flip initially - probably an over-reaction as well.
ncarb has, remarkably, very little staff 'overhead' - almost everyone there is a caseworker or someone who processes paperwork. point being, they do go through every aspect of every application. they make calls to verify former work credit claims, check references, etc. and, if they have 1000 applications in any given year and it takes an average of 2-3 weeks to go through everything (you have to wait for people to call you back, etc.), then figure out how many applications they can do if they have 50 people working on all of them...
if you're going to contact a board member, contact scott veasey (sp on the last name?) - i've met him before and unloaded my own horror stories (and i've got some better than merely waiting). he's pretty sympathetic and willing to try and steer ncarb towards providing better customer service.
I agree about taking complaints to the top, but I also think that NCARB is a group of state licensing boards, not an organization of architects. So when you complain to NCARB, they quite literally don't care. Of course as individuals they care, and I'm sure that the Scott Veasy guy above was quite sympathetic (unless he starts to get 100 emails, in which case he'll be pissed at Archinect, not at NCARB).
But I'm also sure that state boards are the official place to lodge your complaints and to tell your stories. It is because of them that NCARB exists.
Studio43, i did have my state board send ncarb my license info directly at the beginning of the process (btw i have found the state board to be very responsive). ncarb took a long time to log it into my file, but at last it shows up when i talk to them.
laru, i wonder if ncarb should raise its fees to improve service...
pros-
speedier service
con-
pretty high fees already - california charged less, provided all that ncarb provides and more, and was more responsive and transparent. so, although the state board has other revenues (and maybe it's subsidised by the state), it still my only comparison point.