I think I really, really like architecture. But I've never been excellent at communicating. I say the wrong things a lot. My friends are always people who are nice enough to accept me. Don't get me wrong- I can be outgoing and friendly- but I do not have excellent communication & interpersonal skills. I am socially awkward! So... is there room in architecture for the not-so-smooth? the un-popular? the quirky? the quiet?
Is there anyone out there like me who is an architect?
Steven Ward
Oct 20, 12 10:43 am
Yes.
You may remain socially awkward your whole life - in some situations. But, as you develop an expertise - architecture or other - you will likely become more comfortable in discussion relative to that expertise.
I'm not young, but I'm still a wallflower in many situations. I've also taught myself to push out of my discomfort in situations where it matters. Especially if I know I can hold my own because I know what I'm talking about.
i r giv up
Oct 20, 12 10:53 am
what steven said. knowledge creates confidence.
as to situations where knowledge is not what you'll be leaning on (small talk): you'll get better, but only if you're willing to fail a ton of times and learn from your mistakes.. and that's going to hurt. i'm happy that i got that done in college...
the problem with giving into introversion, is that it's a vicious circle if you don't fight it out, especially in a profession where your main role is that of coordinator and facilitator.
citizen
Oct 20, 12 12:45 pm
You write very well, so you're already one-up on many folks' non-verbal communication skills. In my experience, the well-adjusted and socially adroit architect is the exception, not the rule. You will find a welcome place in our ranks, comrade.
gwharton
Oct 21, 12 11:21 pm
Architecture is a profession where introverts can thrive (technical architect, spec writer, visualization specialist), but lack of good interpersonal communication skills will put a ceiling on how high you can rise. Severe introverts tend not to make partner (as a general rule), and have a lot of trouble building business if they try to go out on their own. Designers need to be "good in a room" to advance very far, since a big part of design is good story-telling and salesmanship. Case in point: BIG.
Donna Sink
Oct 21, 12 11:23 pm
I feel like I know lots of architects who are very good at communicating their design ideas - via both drawing and words - but make awkward and inappropriate comments, especially to their staff, all the time.
The key is getting people to talk about what they love. So this gives architects an advantage, as we often have to talk to people about their needs, desires, etc. for their project, and they typically love to carry on about what *they* think a perfect lab/classroom/kitchen would include. So don't do a lot of talking yourself; get them to talk about something they love to talk about, and ask good questions that will lead them to talk about it more.
Also, I had a charming boss who *always* asked clients about their kids. People generally love to talk about their kids.
gwharton
Oct 21, 12 11:40 pm
Now that I think about it, one reliable path to senior ranks in architecture firms for introverts is business operations. A hotshot biz opps manager who can generate consistent profit margins will always do well, no matter how socially awkward they might be.
graphite
Oct 22, 12 4:11 pm
@takesavillage
Find your local Toastmaster club. Your presentations will change, end of story.
bowling_ball
Oct 22, 12 4:59 pm
As an introvert who's cold-calling potential employers today, I feel your pain. However, I'm realizing that I have nothing really to lose (they mostly don't know me personally) except the opportunity for a job.
Fortunately my writing is apparently very good, so I hope that I can get my foot in some doors that way, too. It takes all kinds. Having said that, good interpersonal skills is always a positive and will realistically lead to more opportunity during your career. That doesn't mean not being true to yourself, it just means trying to become a little more comfortable being involved in social situations.
(I should take my own advice...)
accesskb
Oct 23, 12 1:37 am
communication/interpersonal skills are not needed to survive in architecture... Most aren't going to choose someone who can talk like a president but designs crappy work over someone who can't speak well but designs brilliant work. During my undergrad, there was a girl from mainland China who could barely speak much english and put togethar a proper sentence, but boy did she have confidence and could design and blow away the entire class. Not surprisingly, she went on to win many studio awards and got accepted at top Ivy league schools in US for grad school
file
Oct 23, 12 12:52 pm
"Is there anyone out there like me who is an architect?" In my experience, there are many, many like you in the profession. And, I think one can make a case that this widespread social awkwardness, and widespread preference to spend most of our time with others within the profession, is a significant contributing factor to many of the weaknesses our profession endures.
People who are properly motivated can make vast improvement in their communication and interpersonal skills -- the shyness and awkwardness of youth is not a lifetime sentence. However, it's hard work and requires tremendous discipline and commitment. You have to judge for yourself if that investment of time and discomfort will provide you the career benefits you seek.
Zaina
Dec 2, 15 5:28 am
Yup and even worse:p
the only thing that people get from me is anger.. I usually talk to myself and everything is clear, but when I'm asked to explain to others its confusing, I start question myself what do people want to know exactly or if they really want to know anything at all? and because i'm so honest and naive (usually saying the first thing come to mind) i face very embarrassing situations and lose my self confidence when it comes to juries (not only).. it happens that when it comes to people i'm just in a shock state (blocked brain and a terrible feeling of fear).. i remember in one jury was like "ok this my project as you can read from the boards, are you interested to know anything at all? just read the boards and leave" lol .. its' relatively good if you only say inappropriate things, me last week throw the papers in the face on my team (students team) and left the place bcz i think their work was bullshit, and I had to repeat everything and do it all by my self (working is easier than talking)
archiwutm8
Dec 2, 15 5:52 am
Zaina - That attitude and actions make you look like a conceited asshole. Why would you behave in that way towards your peers?
Zaina
Dec 2, 15 6:09 am
archiwutm- lol we're having a 2 sided talk a lot in this forum .. well, maybe bcz of three things were written in personality type description (logician) .. 1- my type like to shown off with their knowledge and skills (only) 2- the only or most thing the provokes me is inefficiency 3- insensitivity... the good thing is good students really want to work with me but others are scared.. whats your type of personality?
Anonymoose
Dec 2, 15 6:29 am
@archiwutm8
Don't you know? She is the only person who actually takes architecture seriously and is extremely skilled and efficient at everything she does. Other mere mortals should feel blessed that they have the opportunity to share the same space as her. How dare they insult her with their bullshit designs? She operates on a higher level but is being forced to work with only the "good" students. Isn't that right, Zaina?
Zaina
Dec 2, 15 7:37 am
right right. you wished to highlight i'm an asshole..i'm given' it to you the easy way "i'm a asshole" (maybe, but that isn't offending anyway)... so if you're probably pissed of your employer because he treats you in a similar manner, you better go and work harder instead of putting your anger on people that you think thiey have the same attitude on the internet.. or if you're lucky and you do your projects with "peers", try to perform a good quality design of a big project that needs 2 architects merely with your efforts and with draftsman's efforts (just give it a shot) and then come and tell me how it feels.. now, if you 2 are so pissed of me for some reason, or you have nothing better to do rather than replying my naive comments (bcz i'm too busy and tired to come up with comments.. just talking), you can be happy bcz i'm no longer replying you ... so a good suggestion for you is to start looking for someone else on this forum to annoy.
Zaina
Dec 2, 15 7:42 am
one more thing, that's how when i'll for a firm i'll put it in competence with bigger ones.. not with the laziness silly attitude.
archiwutm8
Dec 2, 15 8:26 am
You have a nasty attitude that's why people are "annoying" you, if you cannot work with people how will you ever work in the real world? You think architects are the end game when it comes to building? No, it doesn't work that way, you have contractors, subcontractors, MEP engineers, structural engineers, surveyors, estimators and many more. Most large - medium scale buildings will employ more than 1 architect to work on it, it really is ever one team. If you cannot work with your peers, be pleasant, trust others and have the ability to convey your thoughts how will you ever succeed in a business where collaboration is everything?
Who is going to employ and keep someone who is a piece of sh*t to work with? You can have all the skill and enthusiasm you like but if I don't like you why would I work with you? Why would a client go to you if you act like a little sh*t?
Get a grip of yourself, you're not the best at what you do and your surely not going to be the most successful if you can't work with others.
Zaina
Dec 2, 15 8:35 am
ok, what do you want? it's obvious you're taking revenge from me bcz i kept annoying you out of curiosity lately.. i was very sad when you said you were knocking your head to the wall ..and was wondering if the profession can do this to anyone.. it's obvious you're not okay these time, what's going wrong with you? .. it isn't about me.. really
archiwutm8
Dec 2, 15 8:38 am
I give up on you, absolutely childish and immature behaviour and responses.
Non Sequitur
Dec 2, 15 8:40 am
Zaina, don't you have some shitty bomb shelter "thesis" to work on? Maybe you should spent less time masturbating to your own posts on the forum and instead spend this valuable time applying layers of glitter to your presentation boards.
Miles Jaffe
Dec 2, 15 9:03 am
Can someone please explain how to get the glitter effect in Revit?
Non Sequitur
Dec 2, 15 9:06 am
Miles...
Best comment I've read in weeks.
Zaina
Dec 2, 15 9:12 am
mature adults are big children who can no longer take the crap of life!
Non, Indeed
glitter effect.Lol
archiwutm- I'm sorry..
gruen
Dec 5, 15 4:59 pm
Proper glitter takes rhino w asshopper script
Josh Mings
Dec 5, 15 9:13 pm
Zaina, you could be the next starchitect but with the way you portray yourself on here not many people will want to work with you.
I'm not the best at delegating and explaining tasks to interns, and can show impatience at times. You know what I do? I actively work on a weakness of mine, not complain about the others on a message board.
Miles Jaffe
Dec 5, 15 10:24 pm
asshopper
I think Shoemuncher uses that software.
archiwutm8
Dec 7, 15 10:11 am
Zaina got rekted by Josh.
Zaina
Dec 7, 15 12:39 pm
archiwutm- what does "rekted" mean?..I just got a mood change ... and honestly Josh's comments are very polite and objective.. for earth sake, give me someone else to execute..! :p lol
Josh- you're right, but I couldn't help it.. I apologize
I think I really, really like architecture. But I've never been excellent at communicating. I say the wrong things a lot. My friends are always people who are nice enough to accept me. Don't get me wrong- I can be outgoing and friendly- but I do not have excellent communication & interpersonal skills. I am socially awkward! So... is there room in architecture for the not-so-smooth? the un-popular? the quirky? the quiet?
Is there anyone out there like me who is an architect?
Yes.
You may remain socially awkward your whole life - in some situations. But, as you develop an expertise - architecture or other - you will likely become more comfortable in discussion relative to that expertise.
I'm not young, but I'm still a wallflower in many situations. I've also taught myself to push out of my discomfort in situations where it matters. Especially if I know I can hold my own because I know what I'm talking about.
what steven said. knowledge creates confidence.
as to situations where knowledge is not what you'll be leaning on (small talk): you'll get better, but only if you're willing to fail a ton of times and learn from your mistakes.. and that's going to hurt. i'm happy that i got that done in college...
the problem with giving into introversion, is that it's a vicious circle if you don't fight it out, especially in a profession where your main role is that of coordinator and facilitator.
You write very well, so you're already one-up on many folks' non-verbal communication skills. In my experience, the well-adjusted and socially adroit architect is the exception, not the rule. You will find a welcome place in our ranks, comrade.
Architecture is a profession where introverts can thrive (technical architect, spec writer, visualization specialist), but lack of good interpersonal communication skills will put a ceiling on how high you can rise. Severe introverts tend not to make partner (as a general rule), and have a lot of trouble building business if they try to go out on their own. Designers need to be "good in a room" to advance very far, since a big part of design is good story-telling and salesmanship. Case in point: BIG.
I feel like I know lots of architects who are very good at communicating their design ideas - via both drawing and words - but make awkward and inappropriate comments, especially to their staff, all the time.
The key is getting people to talk about what they love. So this gives architects an advantage, as we often have to talk to people about their needs, desires, etc. for their project, and they typically love to carry on about what *they* think a perfect lab/classroom/kitchen would include. So don't do a lot of talking yourself; get them to talk about something they love to talk about, and ask good questions that will lead them to talk about it more.
Also, I had a charming boss who *always* asked clients about their kids. People generally love to talk about their kids.
Now that I think about it, one reliable path to senior ranks in architecture firms for introverts is business operations. A hotshot biz opps manager who can generate consistent profit margins will always do well, no matter how socially awkward they might be.
@takesavillage
Find your local Toastmaster club. Your presentations will change, end of story.
As an introvert who's cold-calling potential employers today, I feel your pain. However, I'm realizing that I have nothing really to lose (they mostly don't know me personally) except the opportunity for a job.
Fortunately my writing is apparently very good, so I hope that I can get my foot in some doors that way, too. It takes all kinds. Having said that, good interpersonal skills is always a positive and will realistically lead to more opportunity during your career. That doesn't mean not being true to yourself, it just means trying to become a little more comfortable being involved in social situations.
(I should take my own advice...)
communication/interpersonal skills are not needed to survive in architecture... Most aren't going to choose someone who can talk like a president but designs crappy work over someone who can't speak well but designs brilliant work. During my undergrad, there was a girl from mainland China who could barely speak much english and put togethar a proper sentence, but boy did she have confidence and could design and blow away the entire class. Not surprisingly, she went on to win many studio awards and got accepted at top Ivy league schools in US for grad school
"Is there anyone out there like me who is an architect?" In my experience, there are many, many like you in the profession. And, I think one can make a case that this widespread social awkwardness, and widespread preference to spend most of our time with others within the profession, is a significant contributing factor to many of the weaknesses our profession endures.
People who are properly motivated can make vast improvement in their communication and interpersonal skills -- the shyness and awkwardness of youth is not a lifetime sentence. However, it's hard work and requires tremendous discipline and commitment. You have to judge for yourself if that investment of time and discomfort will provide you the career benefits you seek.
Yup and even worse:p
the only thing that people get from me is anger.. I usually talk to myself and everything is clear, but when I'm asked to explain to others its confusing, I start question myself what do people want to know exactly or if they really want to know anything at all? and because i'm so honest and naive (usually saying the first thing come to mind) i face very embarrassing situations and lose my self confidence when it comes to juries (not only).. it happens that when it comes to people i'm just in a shock state (blocked brain and a terrible feeling of fear).. i remember in one jury was like "ok this my project as you can read from the boards, are you interested to know anything at all? just read the boards and leave" lol .. its' relatively good if you only say inappropriate things, me last week throw the papers in the face on my team (students team) and left the place bcz i think their work was bullshit, and I had to repeat everything and do it all by my self (working is easier than talking)
Zaina - That attitude and actions make you look like a conceited asshole. Why would you behave in that way towards your peers?
archiwutm- lol we're having a 2 sided talk a lot in this forum .. well, maybe bcz of three things were written in personality type description (logician) .. 1- my type like to shown off with their knowledge and skills (only) 2- the only or most thing the provokes me is inefficiency 3- insensitivity... the good thing is good students really want to work with me but others are scared.. whats your type of personality?
@archiwutm8
Don't you know? She is the only person who actually takes architecture seriously and is extremely skilled and efficient at everything she does. Other mere mortals should feel blessed that they have the opportunity to share the same space as her. How dare they insult her with their bullshit designs? She operates on a higher level but is being forced to work with only the "good" students. Isn't that right, Zaina?
right right. you wished to highlight i'm an asshole..i'm given' it to you the easy way "i'm a asshole" (maybe, but that isn't offending anyway)... so if you're probably pissed of your employer because he treats you in a similar manner, you better go and work harder instead of putting your anger on people that you think thiey have the same attitude on the internet.. or if you're lucky and you do your projects with "peers", try to perform a good quality design of a big project that needs 2 architects merely with your efforts and with draftsman's efforts (just give it a shot) and then come and tell me how it feels.. now, if you 2 are so pissed of me for some reason, or you have nothing better to do rather than replying my naive comments (bcz i'm too busy and tired to come up with comments.. just talking), you can be happy bcz i'm no longer replying you ... so a good suggestion for you is to start looking for someone else on this forum to annoy.
one more thing, that's how when i'll for a firm i'll put it in competence with bigger ones.. not with the laziness silly attitude.
You have a nasty attitude that's why people are "annoying" you, if you cannot work with people how will you ever work in the real world? You think architects are the end game when it comes to building? No, it doesn't work that way, you have contractors, subcontractors, MEP engineers, structural engineers, surveyors, estimators and many more. Most large - medium scale buildings will employ more than 1 architect to work on it, it really is ever one team. If you cannot work with your peers, be pleasant, trust others and have the ability to convey your thoughts how will you ever succeed in a business where collaboration is everything?
Who is going to employ and keep someone who is a piece of sh*t to work with? You can have all the skill and enthusiasm you like but if I don't like you why would I work with you? Why would a client go to you if you act like a little sh*t?
Get a grip of yourself, you're not the best at what you do and your surely not going to be the most successful if you can't work with others.
ok, what do you want? it's obvious you're taking revenge from me bcz i kept annoying you out of curiosity lately.. i was very sad when you said you were knocking your head to the wall ..and was wondering if the profession can do this to anyone.. it's obvious you're not okay these time, what's going wrong with you? .. it isn't about me.. really
I give up on you, absolutely childish and immature behaviour and responses.
Zaina, don't you have some shitty bomb shelter "thesis" to work on? Maybe you should spent less time masturbating to your own posts on the forum and instead spend this valuable time applying layers of glitter to your presentation boards.
Can someone please explain how to get the glitter effect in Revit?
Miles...
Best comment I've read in weeks.
mature adults are big children who can no longer take the crap of life!
Non, Indeed
glitter effect.Lol
archiwutm- I'm sorry..
Proper glitter takes rhino w asshopper script
Zaina, you could be the next starchitect but with the way you portray yourself on here not many people will want to work with you.
I'm not the best at delegating and explaining tasks to interns, and can show impatience at times. You know what I do? I actively work on a weakness of mine, not complain about the others on a message board.
asshopper
I think Shoemuncher uses that software.
Zaina got rekted by Josh.
archiwutm- what does "rekted" mean?..I just got a mood change ... and honestly Josh's comments are very polite and objective.. for earth sake, give me someone else to execute..! :p lol
Josh- you're right, but I couldn't help it.. I apologize