I'm currently laying out my floor plans for a school project and I'm wondering if the main electrical room should be a fire rated wall and what does the code say concerning this.
I looked into the NEC and it says nothing about fire rating electrical room walls. The code does mention about electrical "vaults" and they should have 3 hour fire rated walls (with 600 amps or greater electrical service) but I don't think that's the same as electrical "rooms".
I'm just curious if anyone knows anything about this. It might be a little too technical for a school project but I think it's pretty useful to know.
Thanks!
larslarson
May 27, 07 3:59 pm
i don't know if it depends where you are..but in nyc we were just looking
at this and determined that electrical rooms needed to just have a 1hr
rating..which is your basic gyp wall.
vado retro
May 27, 07 4:03 pm
without looking at the ibc i can tell you that the last project i worked on had 5/8" type X gyp board on a 2x6 ie one hour. building is sprinkelered.
won and done williams
May 27, 07 5:33 pm
one-hour as i remember it.
as you stated though, this doesn't seem worth paying any attention to for a studio project. fire ratings on electrical rooms?! i don't think i've ever even seen an electrical room in a studio project!
voltagedrop
May 27, 07 5:33 pm
wow thanks for the quick response lars & vado...
yeah, 1 hr rating sounds right. i dug up some as-built drawings of various projects and noticed that all the main electrical rooms had 1 hr fire rated walls.
I still can't find the code that would tell me the specifics though. hmmmm
voltagedrop
May 27, 07 5:44 pm
haha jafidler
Well, our project was to design a theater and at the last minute my prof said "oh yeah, don't forget to address the need for electrical and mechanical rooms". I just found that dismissive and really annoying since during the whole semester, we didn't even study about electrical and mechanical design in a building. I find the electrical system of a structure fascinating but it seems like every single one of my architecture professors seem to disregard it. It's like, "let's leave it to the engineers to figure it out".
hyperbody
May 27, 07 6:12 pm
i'm an electrical designer and i work for an electrical engineering consulting firm. An architect called me up once asking the exact same question. Typically, the main electrical room has walls fire rated at 1 hour. "Vaults" are definitely different from electrical "rooms". You are correct that electrical vaults containing equipment with 600 amps or greaters must have at least 3 hour rated walls (and 3 hour rated floors if there are any floors underneath the vault).
I studied architecture for about two years and you're absolutely right voltagedrop (btw, as an electrical designer, your name is great! haha) teachers have little clue about electrical systems in buildings.
vado retro
May 27, 07 7:02 pm
oh and dont forget the ceiling and a rated door,,,in fact i would focus the whole presentation on this room.
drums please, Fab?
May 27, 07 8:42 pm
throw in a fire damper detail for the hvac system you design, just to be safe
won and done williams
May 27, 07 11:50 pm
might as well include a sheet for firestops and through penetrations while you're at it;)
brian buchalski
May 28, 07 1:00 pm
and make sure you use the colour "red" a lot because everything that protects us from fire is supposed to be red
voltagedrop
May 28, 07 4:34 pm
thanks hyperbody!
hahaha as i said, i really like studying electrical systems so i thought voltagedrop would be appropriate hehe. I know it deals with a loss of voltage due to several factors, but when would you need to do voltage drop calculations?
hyperbody
May 29, 07 2:37 am
Voltage Drop calculations are used to determine proper conductors in electrical wiring. For example, to find the feeder size from a main switchboard to a distribution section. Typically, voltage drop is a factor that is already accounted for in typical wire/feeder sizes so you don't have to worry about that. The only times we show voltage drop calculations are for fire alarm systems for school projects. This is because they are requred by the DSA. This is done for notification devices, such as strobes, horns, or horn/strobes.
Devil Dog
May 29, 07 9:44 am
in my experience, a standard electrical room (housing the distibution panels for each floor, for example) doesn't need to be rated. however, these rooms are usually considered a high hazard space by the fire marshal and therefore need a fire extinguisher. this is usually a small item that is missed until plan review.
voltagedrop, i wonder if your studio professor might mean is to account for an electrical room and mechanical room in your projects program rather than the rating of the walls. these spaces eat up space in projects and are sometimes difficult to location and work around. the equipment in each of these rooms have both vertical (feeder lines and piping/ shafts) and horizontal (distribution lines) components making them difficult to place. i think what is more important for these rooms are clear spaces defined per code and access space for the equipment. for example, you have to have 3'-0" clear space in front of all electrical panels for access. mechanical equipment needs access for ongoing maintenance which is usually defined by the manufacture (since all equipment is different).
if i were your studio professor, i would be more concerned with your ability to 1) find information on your own, 2) a fundamental acknowledgement of things governing design- building codes and 3) your ability to assimilate these into a design.
good luck on your project!
Ms Beary
May 29, 07 7:50 pm
few of my school projects even had floor plans, not to mention electrical rooms!
voltagedrop
May 29, 07 8:03 pm
you're exactly right devil dog. that's exactly what my prof told me when i questioned him regarding adding the electrical and mechanical rooms. he said he is really looking at how i could incorporate these spaces and to make us aware of the fundamentals.
thanks again hyperbody btw i don't think i understood half the things you said but it sounded really cool hhaha.
patam
Jul 31, 09 10:21 pm
look @ NFPA 70 450's if you have a transformer over 112 1/2 KVA have to rated
Steven Ward
Aug 1, 09 7:11 am
i expect that instructor really just meant that you should provide some space somewhere for electrical/mechanical to be accommodated - a way of paying lip service, really...
good for you for following through.
some person
Aug 1, 09 12:49 pm
There are at least two general locations within your building where electrical service should be considered:
1. Incoming service into the building. Consider the transformer location, duct bank, and main switchgear room. The transformer can be located at-grade or in a vault. The switchgear room should be located in close proximity to the transformer, to minimize the length and turns of the ductbank. The switchgear room is sometimes located near the water/gas and tele/data incoming service rooms, as well as the emergency generator. It can be advantageous to locate these together. The existence of these rooms forces you to determine where the "service" side of your building will be, and it helps if you can locate all of the other non-aesthetically-pleasing items here as well... fuel ports, hose bibs, exhaust louvers, trash rooms - properly separated with rated walls from other rooms, of course. (Yes, these items could be made to be aesthetically-pleasing, a la Pompidou Center, but that might not be the focus of your project.)
2. Floor-by-floor distribution. In my project types, electric rooms are located on each floor, and they house the panels that serve the floor. They are often clustered with mechanical rooms, tele/data rooms with the panels, and the toilet rooms... you know, the core.
Good luck on your project. It's great that you're putting effort in to learning about these things now.
Ashraf Mansoory
Mar 4, 20 12:08 am
good morning,
I have one question. can I use fire rated gypsum partition wall instead of CMU ?
regards,
peijunfei
Mar 4, 20 12:29 am
In California, the CBC says 1hr rated.....also REMEMBER to check if there is a machanical shaft, if so, 1hr rt.
williamogle
Dec 14, 21 6:56 pm
@Peijunfei can you please direct me to where in the CBC it says 1HR? As far as I can tell unless it is a transformer room (S2) and there is a separation requirement based on use (E) then I do not see it. I know that for exits and rated corridors it is required however not all electrical rooms are in exits or rated corridors. Please correct me as I am trying to find this CBC reference.
Non Sequitur
Dec 14, 21 8:13 pm
Is that not job to know tho? Seems like an easy thing for someone to find out without googling.
I'm currently laying out my floor plans for a school project and I'm wondering if the main electrical room should be a fire rated wall and what does the code say concerning this.
I looked into the NEC and it says nothing about fire rating electrical room walls. The code does mention about electrical "vaults" and they should have 3 hour fire rated walls (with 600 amps or greater electrical service) but I don't think that's the same as electrical "rooms".
I'm just curious if anyone knows anything about this. It might be a little too technical for a school project but I think it's pretty useful to know.
Thanks!
i don't know if it depends where you are..but in nyc we were just looking
at this and determined that electrical rooms needed to just have a 1hr
rating..which is your basic gyp wall.
without looking at the ibc i can tell you that the last project i worked on had 5/8" type X gyp board on a 2x6 ie one hour. building is sprinkelered.
one-hour as i remember it.
as you stated though, this doesn't seem worth paying any attention to for a studio project. fire ratings on electrical rooms?! i don't think i've ever even seen an electrical room in a studio project!
wow thanks for the quick response lars & vado...
yeah, 1 hr rating sounds right. i dug up some as-built drawings of various projects and noticed that all the main electrical rooms had 1 hr fire rated walls.
I still can't find the code that would tell me the specifics though. hmmmm
haha jafidler
Well, our project was to design a theater and at the last minute my prof said "oh yeah, don't forget to address the need for electrical and mechanical rooms". I just found that dismissive and really annoying since during the whole semester, we didn't even study about electrical and mechanical design in a building. I find the electrical system of a structure fascinating but it seems like every single one of my architecture professors seem to disregard it. It's like, "let's leave it to the engineers to figure it out".
i'm an electrical designer and i work for an electrical engineering consulting firm. An architect called me up once asking the exact same question. Typically, the main electrical room has walls fire rated at 1 hour. "Vaults" are definitely different from electrical "rooms". You are correct that electrical vaults containing equipment with 600 amps or greaters must have at least 3 hour rated walls (and 3 hour rated floors if there are any floors underneath the vault).
I studied architecture for about two years and you're absolutely right voltagedrop (btw, as an electrical designer, your name is great! haha) teachers have little clue about electrical systems in buildings.
oh and dont forget the ceiling and a rated door,,,in fact i would focus the whole presentation on this room.
throw in a fire damper detail for the hvac system you design, just to be safe
might as well include a sheet for firestops and through penetrations while you're at it;)
and make sure you use the colour "red" a lot because everything that protects us from fire is supposed to be red
thanks hyperbody!
hahaha as i said, i really like studying electrical systems so i thought voltagedrop would be appropriate hehe. I know it deals with a loss of voltage due to several factors, but when would you need to do voltage drop calculations?
Voltage Drop calculations are used to determine proper conductors in electrical wiring. For example, to find the feeder size from a main switchboard to a distribution section. Typically, voltage drop is a factor that is already accounted for in typical wire/feeder sizes so you don't have to worry about that. The only times we show voltage drop calculations are for fire alarm systems for school projects. This is because they are requred by the DSA. This is done for notification devices, such as strobes, horns, or horn/strobes.
in my experience, a standard electrical room (housing the distibution panels for each floor, for example) doesn't need to be rated. however, these rooms are usually considered a high hazard space by the fire marshal and therefore need a fire extinguisher. this is usually a small item that is missed until plan review.
voltagedrop, i wonder if your studio professor might mean is to account for an electrical room and mechanical room in your projects program rather than the rating of the walls. these spaces eat up space in projects and are sometimes difficult to location and work around. the equipment in each of these rooms have both vertical (feeder lines and piping/ shafts) and horizontal (distribution lines) components making them difficult to place. i think what is more important for these rooms are clear spaces defined per code and access space for the equipment. for example, you have to have 3'-0" clear space in front of all electrical panels for access. mechanical equipment needs access for ongoing maintenance which is usually defined by the manufacture (since all equipment is different).
if i were your studio professor, i would be more concerned with your ability to 1) find information on your own, 2) a fundamental acknowledgement of things governing design- building codes and 3) your ability to assimilate these into a design.
good luck on your project!
few of my school projects even had floor plans, not to mention electrical rooms!
you're exactly right devil dog. that's exactly what my prof told me when i questioned him regarding adding the electrical and mechanical rooms. he said he is really looking at how i could incorporate these spaces and to make us aware of the fundamentals.
thanks again hyperbody btw i don't think i understood half the things you said but it sounded really cool hhaha.
look @ NFPA 70 450's if you have a transformer over 112 1/2 KVA have to rated
i expect that instructor really just meant that you should provide some space somewhere for electrical/mechanical to be accommodated - a way of paying lip service, really...
good for you for following through.
There are at least two general locations within your building where electrical service should be considered:
1. Incoming service into the building. Consider the transformer location, duct bank, and main switchgear room. The transformer can be located at-grade or in a vault. The switchgear room should be located in close proximity to the transformer, to minimize the length and turns of the ductbank. The switchgear room is sometimes located near the water/gas and tele/data incoming service rooms, as well as the emergency generator. It can be advantageous to locate these together. The existence of these rooms forces you to determine where the "service" side of your building will be, and it helps if you can locate all of the other non-aesthetically-pleasing items here as well... fuel ports, hose bibs, exhaust louvers, trash rooms - properly separated with rated walls from other rooms, of course. (Yes, these items could be made to be aesthetically-pleasing, a la Pompidou Center, but that might not be the focus of your project.)
2. Floor-by-floor distribution. In my project types, electric rooms are located on each floor, and they house the panels that serve the floor. They are often clustered with mechanical rooms, tele/data rooms with the panels, and the toilet rooms... you know, the core.
Good luck on your project. It's great that you're putting effort in to learning about these things now.
good morning,
I have one question. can I use fire rated gypsum partition wall instead of CMU ?
regards,
In California, the CBC says 1hr rated.....also REMEMBER to check if there is a machanical shaft, if so, 1hr rt.
@Peijunfei can you please direct me to where in the CBC it says 1HR? As far as I can tell unless it is a transformer room (S2) and there is a separation requirement based on use (E) then I do not see it. I know that for exits and rated corridors it is required however not all electrical rooms are in exits or rated corridors. Please correct me as I am trying to find this CBC reference.
Is that not job to know tho? Seems like an easy thing for someone to find out without googling.
Zombie thread strikes again.
It’s like a mouse trap but for lazy draftsman.