Today, a coworker told me how his son was suspended from school for a week for a big outburst of profanity in his 3rd period Geometry class. He's in 10th grade.
He said something like "F*ck this, it's like a snake! Sick of this God damn c*cksucking calculator crap. Crap! Crap! I hate it like a sick car. Sh*t! A damn HONDA! It's getting me!"
He was also in a fighting stance, making horizontal chops with his left arm.
So we talked about it over lunch, he actually had the write up form with him with all that written out. I couldn't help but laugh, I could tell he thought it was slightly funny but it's his son so he's not going ot laugh.
But the son has claimed he had no control over what he said. It's never happened before.
So have you ever known anyone with Tourettes? They're going to take him to counseling, but I'm just wondering if it's something your born with or something that develops over time.
Bloopox
Mar 15, 06 6:42 pm
Well, you can't "catch" it in the sense of a contagious disease. It's thought to be caused by a problem in the way that the brain metabolizes seratonin and/or dopamine.
But, the onset of Tourette syndrome is usually in childhood - on average around age 7, though often not correctly diagnosed for years afterward - in fact usually if a person develops similar symptoms after age 18 it is not considered to be Tourette.
Also, the tics and behaviors tend to come in phases, and to wax and wane. Often one behavior will disappear and soon afterward be replaced with a completely different one.
There are other disorders that can cause similar behaviors.
There is also the possibility that the child voluntarily misbehaved and came up with this fairly sophisticated excuse.
Bloopox
Mar 15, 06 6:49 pm
Also: if the parents are fairly convinced that the child's behavior was involuntary then the best place to start would probably be with a physical examination. First off, there are some rare but pretty serious medical problems that can also cause involuntary outbursts - like brain tumors. Second, counseling is generally ineffective for Tourette syndrome, which in some cases responds to medication and a variety of other treatments.
FRO
Mar 15, 06 8:43 pm
sounds to me very much like a 2nd year architecture school studio at about 4 am. not trying to make light of it but don't rule out stress- the kid is like 14 or 15 it sounds like- not the easiest part of life if I recall...
LaTorpilleRose
Mar 15, 06 9:42 pm
"I hate it like a sick car. Sh*t! A damn HONDA! It's getting me!"
I'm sorry, but that is so funny.
Really hope he's OK, though. My wife knew had a cousin who was married to a woman with Tourettes. It was so tough for everyone to keep from laughing, I mean, you can't help it sometimes. Big holiday dinners were tough.
One minute you'd be scooping a forkfull of turkey, the next minute it's nearly falling out of your mouth after the woman yells "Chk- Chk-Chk!!! Beagles! Beagles! Chk-Chk!"
LaTorpilleRose
Mar 15, 06 9:50 pm
Man, this is bringing back too many memories.
One time while we were watching a movie, Cacoon, I think, she just blurted out "I want bacon hatchbacks!"
WTF?
NSJ
Mar 15, 06 11:24 pm
I have Tourette's, and while its generally a mild case there are times when it gets to be overwhelming. But luckily mine doesn't manifest verbally, only in bodily tics and twitches. Bloopox is right about it waxing and waning. I always have a certain amount of small tics going on (some weird blinking, a head twitch, and an uncontrollable snifffle) but occasionally I will have an extra special tic come on like gangbusters. It usually starts with a strange motion that I happen to make (maybe a quick head turn or something wierd with my shoulder) and then I am compelled, and this is really the only way to describe it, to repeat the motion over and over. Its almost like blinking or something. I can stop myself from doing it if I concentrate but as soon as my concentration lapses, it starts again. This can last anywhere from a couple days to a couple months in extreme cases. That part of my body also begins to hurt if it goes on too long.
It seems to me that the worst thing to do is to try and ignore the persons symptoms. When people ask me outright what the hell is going on I am happy to talk about it. Of course most people are not comfortable just asking so it takes some work to get through some social situations when the tics are at their worst.
Other than that I'm alright.
rabbits
Mar 15, 06 11:53 pm
I had a friend who's tourette's manigested as a constant sniffling of the nose. It was really weird...
-andrew
NSJ
Mar 16, 06 12:06 am
I've had a constant sniffle for about four years. It actually seems to be about getting the side of my nostril to "suck in" to touch the center part of the nose. Don't know why I have to do it, but there you go.
myriam
Mar 16, 06 12:22 am
NSJ... sounds like it's related to OCD maybe? Because of your conciousness of the compulsion to do something? Thanks for sharing, I knew a kid with Tourette's in high school and the poor guy was probably too shy to ever speak about what was going on. It's a shame, I bet we would have understood and identified with him better.
PsyArch
Mar 16, 06 8:27 am
OCD is rather different from Tourette's, in that there is generally a higher order motive to the behaviour with OCD, e.g. repeating mantras to protect oneself from evil, or repeatedly checking that doors or windows are closed/in the 'right' position. The OCD behaviours may appear to be involuntary but follow exact routines with many constituent limiting parameters.
While Tourette's might induce anxiety, OCD is driven by anxiety.
Tourette's is more akin to epilepsy in that cycles of brain activity (most often controlling physical movement) self-preservate and magnify/repeat. The waxing and waning of symptoms will be shown to follow fractal (1/f) patterns as has been found in other similar behavioural anomolies.
erin
Mar 17, 06 12:24 am
from what i understood about tourette's(i've known a couple with very mild--face and other ticks) and from what they have told me there is a bracketed age range that it usually shows itself...as in the child has always had it, but it really starts to show in the age range of pre-teen to mid to late teens at the end of the age bracket--this is probably b/c of stress, development issues, etc...
it IS driven by anxiety--high stress situations, nervousness, etc.
and this is when the ticks either verbal or physical come out...
i would suggest going to both counseling and a doctor to make sure it is tourette's just so that the father and the son can really understand what tourette's means--what ticks are possible when you have tourette's, suggestions on how to control them, etc.
PsyArch
Mar 18, 06 3:39 am
Taken from a couple of (registered charity) websites:
Tourette's is a spectrum disorder, with some people having a few tics and others having tics plus features of other conditions such as obsessions, compulsions, inattention, impulsivity, mood variability.
there is more to Tourette's Syndrome than just the tics and would include obsessions, compulsions, and other features as being part of Tourette's
However, as it is a syndrome, diagnosis is based on presence of a number of key symptoms (below). While OCD might be co-present it has nothing to do with a diagnosis of Tourette's
# Both multiple motor tics (i.e., more than two motor tics) and one or more vocal tics have been present at some time, although not necessarily at the same time or continuously;
# The tics occur many times a day (usually in bouts) nearly every day or intermittently throughout a period of more than 1 year;
# Other causes of tics have been ruled out
# Age of onset before age 18.
Further:
While stress does not cause Tourette's, it would seem almost intuitively obvious that stressors might make the symptoms worse for at least some individuals with tics.
Google will put whoever needs to know in touch with many helping professionals.
Hasselhoff
Mar 18, 06 12:13 pm
Yeah, there was a guy in junior high/high school that beeped and twitched. That guy got torn apart. On top of the disorder, he was a huge nerd and just completely socially awkward. Like the time he started taking karate, then picked a fight with the school bully and got destroyed. Oh man, that guy.
We went to a construction site yesterday and our guide kept having blinking fits very similar to the kid from school. He didn't make any noises, but his ticks we the same.
Manteno_Montenegro
Oct 6, 06 11:26 am
Oh, greetings my friends! I've been so busy lately and no time to spend here - if you remember I went to Tokyo in July, still no pictures up yet but I hope to have some for you eventually. The trip was a blast!
Anyhow, I have a little update about the coworker's son who I talked about up there at the top.
Last week while in class (he's in the 11th grade now) he got up during a quiz, spun around on one foot and sang "Ku-Ku-Ku-Ku Quiz Paper got you down!" then did that snake breakdancing move with his arms THEN tried to get his arm out of his sleeve and do that thing where you bring your arm down and one is under your shirt popping up and down (his dad could barely describe it to me, we were like "that thing we did when we were kids?"
Well, the son got frustrated because he couldn't figure it out and then just unleashed wave after wave of curse words until the teacher forcibly removed him from the room. It was the first big outburst in a while - he went to counseling and everything but they determined it wasn't really tourettes, just that the kid is kind of strange.
z|o|o|m
Oct 6, 06 11:47 am
"it wasn't really tourettes, just that the kid is kind of strange."
Uh, yeah--very strange. You might have problems if people are misdiagnosing you with tourettes......then again you might be a genious. Either way my sides hurt from laughing so hard at this thread!
These are the best parts:
-"Sick of this God damn c*cksucking calculator crap. Crap! Crap! I hate it like a sick car. Sh*t! A damn HONDA! It's getting me!"
-fighting stance, making horizontal chops with his left arm.
-"Chk- Chk-Chk!!! Beagles! Beagles! Chk-Chk!"
-watching a movie, Cacoon, I think, she just blurted out "I want bacon hatchbacks!"
-"Ku-Ku-Ku-Ku Quiz Paper got you down!"
-snake breakdancing move with his arms
-bring your arm down and one is under your shirt popping up and down
Hasselhoff
Oct 6, 06 11:49 am
When I worked at Harvard there was a grad student that used to occationally just kinda..lock up, stop short and just shout really loud, like "AAAAHHH!" Then just keep on going. Hard to explain the body movement. It was strange when it was all quite in the lounge and he would just scream.
myriam
Oct 6, 06 11:55 am
oh my goodness I don't know what I would do if my kid started pulling shit like that. How do you even react?! He must have been trying so hard not to laugh with you over that shirt-pumping maneuver. I know exactly what you're talking about...
vado retro
Oct 6, 06 12:03 pm
although i feel sorry for anyone with this syndrome, its kind a got me thinking that to say you have tourette's would be a good way to vent at certain people in certain places that otherwise would go unsaid.
the boss walks by "SHITMOTHERFUCKERCOCKSUCKERRR!"
PerCorell
Oct 6, 06 12:56 pm
verbal Turette is just as destint as motion or ticks --- still Turret is often a sidewin of Aspergers. So you could face an Aspergers with Turret case, this person proberly are extreem good at a narrow field.
Computers was made by Aspergers for Aspergers.
llll
Oct 6, 06 1:01 pm
This is too funny. I have a calculus test in a couple hours. I wish that kid would be in my class. I wish I could have that kid around me all the time.
Seriously, if we could all just involuntarily rant, would there be no more passive aggressive bs, would certain relationships not drag on too long, would conflicts diffuse before they turn into wars?...shit, I wish it would be contagious.
z|o|o|m
Apr 11, 07 1:34 pm
Man, I love this thread
vado retro
Apr 11, 07 1:40 pm
alfrejas24
Apr 11, 07 2:13 pm
This thread was making me wonder how a kid acts like this if it isn't turetts. Then I realized this sounds like my boss's kid. He's 9 and they've sent him to all kinds of counselors and specialist. They use all kinds of psuedo medical terms and 3 letter diagnosis's to excuse his behavior and give him all kinds of special treatment. Whenever he doesn't want to do something or gets in trouble he throws tantrums till he gets his way.
Now fast forward and how is going to react in 11th grade when he can't figure out a test.
mdler
Apr 11, 07 2:14 pm
fuck you
mdler
Apr 11, 07 2:15 pm
fuck you
mdler
Apr 11, 07 2:15 pm
fuck you
work for idle hands
Apr 11, 07 2:33 pm
the project i'm working on right now is suffering from too-many-turrets syndrome...literaly.
I've got Tourettes it showed up really bad in high school, except that it was mostly twitches and body motions. Similarly to NSJ I knew I was doing the movement/twitch and whilst I could stop it I actually wanted to do it, it was almost like my body was telling me to do it.
I got laughed at too, but I was the big kid in class and usually just roughed up the kid making the jokes, its amazing how quickly teenage boys will stop teasing when their ringleader is stuffed upside down in a broom closet (grin) ....sometimes I roughed up the ringleader just because the schmuck was well.....a schmuck, but that's another story.
Thankfully I had a teacher who had Tourettes too and she caught on quick and gave me some good exercises to get past all the twitchy crap. Her best advice was just to not do the motion when my body 'told' me to do it, that worked a treat.
I still get the occasional twitch but only when I am very tired.
Although granted I kinda wish we had someone with verbal Tourettes in high school, him and I could have formed our own stand up comedy act.
"Twitchy and the DAMN HONDA, CHK CHK CHK"
Anyway thanks for the laughs guys
malaysboweman
Dec 30, 17 3:49 pm
Reading all of this talk, the huge overlap with other disorders, and that published mental health "facts" are almost always getting discredited convinces me that mental health knowledge is at least 300 years behind physical medicine. I am almost suprised we are not still doing trepaning. :/
People are suffering by the millions (billions?) from mental disorders, but it seems no one really knows what they are doing. The current trend of shoving pills down people's throats in hopes that they will just shut up and go away isn't helping any. :|
Non Sequitur
Jan 2, 18 10:19 am
You resurrected this 9-year old thread to shove your own mis-guided opinion? Find a new hobby.
Today, a coworker told me how his son was suspended from school for a week for a big outburst of profanity in his 3rd period Geometry class. He's in 10th grade.
He said something like "F*ck this, it's like a snake! Sick of this God damn c*cksucking calculator crap. Crap! Crap! I hate it like a sick car. Sh*t! A damn HONDA! It's getting me!"
He was also in a fighting stance, making horizontal chops with his left arm.
So we talked about it over lunch, he actually had the write up form with him with all that written out. I couldn't help but laugh, I could tell he thought it was slightly funny but it's his son so he's not going ot laugh.
But the son has claimed he had no control over what he said. It's never happened before.
So have you ever known anyone with Tourettes? They're going to take him to counseling, but I'm just wondering if it's something your born with or something that develops over time.
Well, you can't "catch" it in the sense of a contagious disease. It's thought to be caused by a problem in the way that the brain metabolizes seratonin and/or dopamine.
But, the onset of Tourette syndrome is usually in childhood - on average around age 7, though often not correctly diagnosed for years afterward - in fact usually if a person develops similar symptoms after age 18 it is not considered to be Tourette.
Also, the tics and behaviors tend to come in phases, and to wax and wane. Often one behavior will disappear and soon afterward be replaced with a completely different one.
There are other disorders that can cause similar behaviors.
There is also the possibility that the child voluntarily misbehaved and came up with this fairly sophisticated excuse.
Also: if the parents are fairly convinced that the child's behavior was involuntary then the best place to start would probably be with a physical examination. First off, there are some rare but pretty serious medical problems that can also cause involuntary outbursts - like brain tumors. Second, counseling is generally ineffective for Tourette syndrome, which in some cases responds to medication and a variety of other treatments.
sounds to me very much like a 2nd year architecture school studio at about 4 am. not trying to make light of it but don't rule out stress- the kid is like 14 or 15 it sounds like- not the easiest part of life if I recall...
"I hate it like a sick car. Sh*t! A damn HONDA! It's getting me!"
I'm sorry, but that is so funny.
Really hope he's OK, though. My wife knew had a cousin who was married to a woman with Tourettes. It was so tough for everyone to keep from laughing, I mean, you can't help it sometimes. Big holiday dinners were tough.
One minute you'd be scooping a forkfull of turkey, the next minute it's nearly falling out of your mouth after the woman yells "Chk- Chk-Chk!!! Beagles! Beagles! Chk-Chk!"
Man, this is bringing back too many memories.
One time while we were watching a movie, Cacoon, I think, she just blurted out "I want bacon hatchbacks!"
WTF?
I have Tourette's, and while its generally a mild case there are times when it gets to be overwhelming. But luckily mine doesn't manifest verbally, only in bodily tics and twitches. Bloopox is right about it waxing and waning. I always have a certain amount of small tics going on (some weird blinking, a head twitch, and an uncontrollable snifffle) but occasionally I will have an extra special tic come on like gangbusters. It usually starts with a strange motion that I happen to make (maybe a quick head turn or something wierd with my shoulder) and then I am compelled, and this is really the only way to describe it, to repeat the motion over and over. Its almost like blinking or something. I can stop myself from doing it if I concentrate but as soon as my concentration lapses, it starts again. This can last anywhere from a couple days to a couple months in extreme cases. That part of my body also begins to hurt if it goes on too long.
It seems to me that the worst thing to do is to try and ignore the persons symptoms. When people ask me outright what the hell is going on I am happy to talk about it. Of course most people are not comfortable just asking so it takes some work to get through some social situations when the tics are at their worst.
Other than that I'm alright.
I had a friend who's tourette's manigested as a constant sniffling of the nose. It was really weird...
-andrew
I've had a constant sniffle for about four years. It actually seems to be about getting the side of my nostril to "suck in" to touch the center part of the nose. Don't know why I have to do it, but there you go.
NSJ... sounds like it's related to OCD maybe? Because of your conciousness of the compulsion to do something? Thanks for sharing, I knew a kid with Tourette's in high school and the poor guy was probably too shy to ever speak about what was going on. It's a shame, I bet we would have understood and identified with him better.
OCD is rather different from Tourette's, in that there is generally a higher order motive to the behaviour with OCD, e.g. repeating mantras to protect oneself from evil, or repeatedly checking that doors or windows are closed/in the 'right' position. The OCD behaviours may appear to be involuntary but follow exact routines with many constituent limiting parameters.
While Tourette's might induce anxiety, OCD is driven by anxiety.
Tourette's is more akin to epilepsy in that cycles of brain activity (most often controlling physical movement) self-preservate and magnify/repeat. The waxing and waning of symptoms will be shown to follow fractal (1/f) patterns as has been found in other similar behavioural anomolies.
from what i understood about tourette's(i've known a couple with very mild--face and other ticks) and from what they have told me there is a bracketed age range that it usually shows itself...as in the child has always had it, but it really starts to show in the age range of pre-teen to mid to late teens at the end of the age bracket--this is probably b/c of stress, development issues, etc...
it IS driven by anxiety--high stress situations, nervousness, etc.
and this is when the ticks either verbal or physical come out...
i would suggest going to both counseling and a doctor to make sure it is tourette's just so that the father and the son can really understand what tourette's means--what ticks are possible when you have tourette's, suggestions on how to control them, etc.
Taken from a couple of (registered charity) websites:
Tourette's is a spectrum disorder, with some people having a few tics and others having tics plus features of other conditions such as obsessions, compulsions, inattention, impulsivity, mood variability.
there is more to Tourette's Syndrome than just the tics and would include obsessions, compulsions, and other features as being part of Tourette's
However, as it is a syndrome, diagnosis is based on presence of a number of key symptoms (below). While OCD might be co-present it has nothing to do with a diagnosis of Tourette's
# Both multiple motor tics (i.e., more than two motor tics) and one or more vocal tics have been present at some time, although not necessarily at the same time or continuously;
# The tics occur many times a day (usually in bouts) nearly every day or intermittently throughout a period of more than 1 year;
# Other causes of tics have been ruled out
# Age of onset before age 18.
Further:
While stress does not cause Tourette's, it would seem almost intuitively obvious that stressors might make the symptoms worse for at least some individuals with tics.
Google will put whoever needs to know in touch with many helping professionals.
Yeah, there was a guy in junior high/high school that beeped and twitched. That guy got torn apart. On top of the disorder, he was a huge nerd and just completely socially awkward. Like the time he started taking karate, then picked a fight with the school bully and got destroyed. Oh man, that guy.
We went to a construction site yesterday and our guide kept having blinking fits very similar to the kid from school. He didn't make any noises, but his ticks we the same.
Oh, greetings my friends! I've been so busy lately and no time to spend here - if you remember I went to Tokyo in July, still no pictures up yet but I hope to have some for you eventually. The trip was a blast!
Anyhow, I have a little update about the coworker's son who I talked about up there at the top.
Last week while in class (he's in the 11th grade now) he got up during a quiz, spun around on one foot and sang "Ku-Ku-Ku-Ku Quiz Paper got you down!" then did that snake breakdancing move with his arms THEN tried to get his arm out of his sleeve and do that thing where you bring your arm down and one is under your shirt popping up and down (his dad could barely describe it to me, we were like "that thing we did when we were kids?"
Well, the son got frustrated because he couldn't figure it out and then just unleashed wave after wave of curse words until the teacher forcibly removed him from the room. It was the first big outburst in a while - he went to counseling and everything but they determined it wasn't really tourettes, just that the kid is kind of strange.
Uh, yeah--very strange. You might have problems if people are misdiagnosing you with tourettes......then again you might be a genious. Either way my sides hurt from laughing so hard at this thread!
These are the best parts:
-"Sick of this God damn c*cksucking calculator crap. Crap! Crap! I hate it like a sick car. Sh*t! A damn HONDA! It's getting me!"
-fighting stance, making horizontal chops with his left arm.
-"Chk- Chk-Chk!!! Beagles! Beagles! Chk-Chk!"
-watching a movie, Cacoon, I think, she just blurted out "I want bacon hatchbacks!"
-"Ku-Ku-Ku-Ku Quiz Paper got you down!"
-snake breakdancing move with his arms
-bring your arm down and one is under your shirt popping up and down
When I worked at Harvard there was a grad student that used to occationally just kinda..lock up, stop short and just shout really loud, like "AAAAHHH!" Then just keep on going. Hard to explain the body movement. It was strange when it was all quite in the lounge and he would just scream.
oh my goodness I don't know what I would do if my kid started pulling shit like that. How do you even react?! He must have been trying so hard not to laugh with you over that shirt-pumping maneuver. I know exactly what you're talking about...
although i feel sorry for anyone with this syndrome, its kind a got me thinking that to say you have tourette's would be a good way to vent at certain people in certain places that otherwise would go unsaid.
the boss walks by "SHITMOTHERFUCKERCOCKSUCKERRR!"
verbal Turette is just as destint as motion or ticks --- still Turret is often a sidewin of Aspergers. So you could face an Aspergers with Turret case, this person proberly are extreem good at a narrow field.
Computers was made by Aspergers for Aspergers.
This is too funny. I have a calculus test in a couple hours. I wish that kid would be in my class. I wish I could have that kid around me all the time.
Seriously, if we could all just involuntarily rant, would there be no more passive aggressive bs, would certain relationships not drag on too long, would conflicts diffuse before they turn into wars?...shit, I wish it would be contagious.
Man, I love this thread
This thread was making me wonder how a kid acts like this if it isn't turetts. Then I realized this sounds like my boss's kid. He's 9 and they've sent him to all kinds of counselors and specialist. They use all kinds of psuedo medical terms and 3 letter diagnosis's to excuse his behavior and give him all kinds of special treatment. Whenever he doesn't want to do something or gets in trouble he throws tantrums till he gets his way.
Now fast forward and how is going to react in 11th grade when he can't figure out a test.
fuck you
fuck you
fuck you
the project i'm working on right now is suffering from too-many-turrets syndrome...literaly.
i drive a honda :(
I caught this today, while eating my breakfast:
[object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="370" wmode="transparent" data="http://www.liveleak.com/player.swf?autostart=false&token=452_1176275317"><param name="movie" value="http://www.liveleak.com/player.swf?autostart=false&token=452_1176275317"><param name="wmode" value="transparent"][param name="quality" value="high"][/object]
<object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="370" wmode="transparent" data="http://www.liveleak.com/player.swf?autostart=false&token=452_1176275317"><param name="movie" value="http://www.liveleak.com/player.swf?autostart=false&token=452_1176275317"><param name="wmode" value="transparent"><param name="quality" value="high"></object>
DAMNIT!
the HELL?
Timing is everything....
FUCK NO! I think everyone at my work has tourette's. but then again, I work in construction so it might just be normal.
Cartman caught it
I've got Tourettes it showed up really bad in high school, except that it was mostly twitches and body motions. Similarly to NSJ I knew I was doing the movement/twitch and whilst I could stop it I actually wanted to do it, it was almost like my body was telling me to do it.
I got laughed at too, but I was the big kid in class and usually just roughed up the kid making the jokes, its amazing how quickly teenage boys will stop teasing when their ringleader is stuffed upside down in a broom closet (grin) ....sometimes I roughed up the ringleader just because the schmuck was well.....a schmuck, but that's another story.
Thankfully I had a teacher who had Tourettes too and she caught on quick and gave me some good exercises to get past all the twitchy crap. Her best advice was just to not do the motion when my body 'told' me to do it, that worked a treat.
I still get the occasional twitch but only when I am very tired.
Although granted I kinda wish we had someone with verbal Tourettes in high school, him and I could have formed our own stand up comedy act.
"Twitchy and the DAMN HONDA, CHK CHK CHK"
Anyway thanks for the laughs guys
Reading all of this talk, the huge overlap with other disorders, and that published mental health "facts" are almost always getting discredited convinces me that mental health knowledge is at least 300 years behind physical medicine. I am almost suprised we are not still doing trepaning. :/
People are suffering by the millions (billions?) from mental disorders, but it seems no one really knows what they are doing. The current trend of shoving pills down people's throats in hopes that they will just shut up and go away isn't helping any. :|
You resurrected this 9-year old thread to shove your own mis-guided opinion? Find a new hobby.