As the title suggests, I am currently a first-year undergraduate who is about one month into my studies at UofT Daniels. Needless to say, I have become slightly disillusioned with the program. I was initially attracted to Architecture because I am interested in the human aspect of design: considering public/private spaces, how light and sound affect the user, and developing design solutions regarding a wide range of social issues (such as climate, etc). However, while the people so far have been great, UofT's curriculum has been unable to stretch me creatively.
I am thinking of reapplying to a more rigorous practical arts program (i.e. Sheridan's Hons Bachelor of Animation, another program that I previously got into) and then pursuing an M.Arch at UofT/UBC or getting an Architectural Technician diploma while completing Summer Intro courses. While working in animation has always been my dream, the animation industry is oversaturated, very unstable, and (shockingly!) pays even less than architecture (~35k w/o union vs ~50k entry). Architecture is also very integrated into the social fabric and has a problem-solving aspect that I like. I plan on achieving a nice balance of both so that I can pivot from one industry to another (as well as construction etc.) when times get tough. Would welcome some advice from practicing architects in Canada as I come from a non-arts immigrant family and have been unable to discuss this with anyone.
Thanks!
A burnt-out 18-year-old lol.
bowling_ball
Oct 13, 24 7:44 pm
I'll bite and hopefully I can help a little.
I started out in fine arts, including a brief stint studying animation. Several of my peers went to Sheridan, an excellent program (that just means the program is good; it doesn't mean you'll be able to find a job in the field).
The path you're suggesting is so off-the-wall that I simply don't understand where you're coming from. There are different undergrad programs across Canada, and UofT is nowhere near the top. Having said that, is an undergrad degree and it absolutely does not matter where you get your degree from in Canada, because you still can't (really) get licensed as an architect with only a Bachelor degree. My advice would be to seek out other programs, rather than abandon ship. Most M.Arch programs won't allow direct entry from a non-architecture undergrad degree, so keep that in mind as well. The path you're dreaming up isn't well thought out or researched at all.
I can tell you as somebody with a degree in product design, even though that's as close as you can get to architecture without it being architecture, there's essentially no crossover. If you think you'll be doing animations for an architecture firm, you probably won't - because it's never been a traditional role, and even in-house rendering is almost obsolete these days. With AI coming, that's a dead end.
You need to decide what you actually want to do. It doesn't have to be architecture and it doesn't have to be animation. But only dabbling in one or both is only going to get you left behind by your peers, unless you can come up with a viable position/role that nobody else can do, and that's a very risky proposition for somebody who's never worked in either industry.
quokkamarsh
Oct 14, 24 2:06 pm
Hey, thanks so much for responding! You’re right – I need to figure out which of the two I want to pursue. If this is what the architecture industry is like, it may not be the path for me.
You mentioned starting out in fine arts but working in product design. How does that feel creatively? I realize now that there is little crossover between the skill sets needed in both fields. What prompted the change?
In addition, you mentioned knowing a couple of Sheridan animation graduates who I presume are now working in adjacent fields, not animation. Do you think that animation is still a viable career path, or is the door closed now that the industry is in shambles and AI is up-and-coming?
Thanks for your help. Got lots to think about.
Cloudpink
Oct 14, 24 1:18 am
Hey!
I completely understand how you feel! I recently graduated from Daniels' undergrad program. You have a clear vision of what you want to do in the architectural field, but you haven't been given the space to develop those interests further. If you really want to pursue your interests, you can always join architectural competitions or try submitting a research proposal for the Laidlaw Foundation (talk to the registrar about Laidlaw, and they'll be able to provide you with more info). UofT's architecture program is very slow and underdeveloped compared to other undergraduate architecture programs nationwide and internationally. They don't have enough studio courses (nor open studios).
I agree with bowling_ball that you need to decide what you want to do. Right now, you're dabbling in two different fields that are equally unstable (though every field has some degree of instability). If you're interested in continuing your architectural studies and feel that UofT is not helping you make any progressions, then you can try transferring to a different uni. However, make sure you compare amenities/facilities before submitting a transfer application.
quokkamarsh
Oct 14, 24 1:59 pm
Yes, that is exactly how I feel! I thought a BA over a BArch or BSc would allow me more design freedom, but we’ve not had a single design opportunity. While my friends in Singapore are on their 2nd/3rd modelling project, I’ve yet to touch a piece of cardboard. It’s killing me because I want to be doing more than just copying existing furniture.
Thank you for your recommendations! I’ll definitely look into the Laidlaw Foundation and some architectural competitions online. I booked a meeting with academic conselling and I’ll be sure to bring this up with them.
I might be judging too harshly because I know actual studio classes begin second year and I haven’t tried that out yet. I also know someone who graduated from this program who has an absolutely amazing portfolio and is working very successfully right now. Does it get better? How would you rate your experiences of third and fourth year, as well as the wider industry now that you’re done undergrad?
Cloudpink
Oct 16, 24 10:42 pm
Hey quokkamarsh!
Cloudpink
Oct 16, 24 10:55 pm
Hey quokkamarsh!
Cloudpink
Oct 17, 24 2:28 am
Not sure why this keeps happening. Hopefully, what I wrote shows up. If not, I'll rewrite what I originally wrote.
graphemic
Oct 14, 24 1:00 pm
Dear 18-year-old,
You're one month in! How are you sure that there won't be opportunity for creativity? Or that the things you desire to learn won't be taught? How on earth are you burnt out already? It's possible that you've got a very good read on the situation (in which case, read my next paragraph), but it's also very possible that your expectations are just not matching up with reality. Give it more than a month, it may take a bit of faith and effort to understand how or what you're learning.
Ok, that being said. If you're feeling ambivalent, an MArch after a non-architecture undergrad degree is a perfectly awesome path. I figured out I wanted to be an architect my second year of undergrad, with no easy way to start a BArch. Decided to study something completely different before moving on to the MArch, and worked in the trades for a few years in between for fun. It's brought me a lot of satisfaction to have a broad set of knowledge and experience, and I kinda feel like it's given me an advantage in school and at work as well. If you are passionate about the social aspects of architecture, I would even recommend getting a humanities degree (mine is in Anthropology), it's a good time.
Good luck! Don't forget to chill a bit.
quokkamarsh
Oct 14, 24 3:50 pm
Hey! Thank you for being so encouraging. It's nice to see that there's someone who went through what I'm feeling now. I do tend to over-stress quite a bit so I will chill and give it time as you suggested.
If you don't mind me asking, how was the experience pivoting to the MArch after anthro? I was actually planning on doing that as a minor before thinking of switching out.
graphemic
Oct 14, 24 7:09 pm
Looks like you've gotten some good advice about your specific university... I also transferred institutions my second year, so don't hesitate if you know it's going to be better!
graphemic
Oct 14, 24 7:23 pm
As for anthro, wow, it was awesome. Like I said, a future MArch was in the back of my mind the whole time. That brought another dimension to my coursework and also relieved me of some of the career anxiety that other students had. I found the field itself endlessly fascinating and meaningful. My department was very concerned with methodology: how information is assembled, how history affects shared meaning, how material conditions influence pretty much everything, etc... These are intellectual skills you can apply to anything. Most importantly, I learned how to write and construct arguments. This is the probably the most significant difference that I could see between myself and my BA peers. Research and communication are absolutely critical to the work I do now, and it's definitely recognized by others. Finally, I'll just add that architecture careers (and others, I'm sure) are long. Of course, don't take on any debt you can't handle, but it's a real privilege to get a liberal arts education! I'm certainly grateful for
it.
Non Sequitur
Oct 14, 24 1:24 pm
UofT undergrad is not an architecture degree. It is a general arts undergrad that dabbles in design or urban planning (mostly toronto-centric). It's a pretty poor design degree so I'm not surprised you feel this way if you came in with high expectations.
But, you're only a month in. If that's too much for you, then we have some news for you because architecture is a long road. Best advice it to see the semester through and if that fails, make the transfer elsewhere.
quokkamarsh
Oct 14, 24 2:08 pm
Ah, a comment from the man himself. I'm not frustrated by the workload, mainly by the course content so far.
Duly noted - will give that a try.
Thanks a bunch!
Non Sequitur
Oct 14, 24 2:24 pm
Hey, it's a holiday weekend up here after all. We did not touch design until midway through 2nd term 1st year... But that was 20y ago. Just remember that the school is trying to give you the basic foundation for design and design thinking. Maybe you think you know something but you do not, no one does at that age. Back when I was in undergrad (Carleton), there were plenty who complained that they were not designing houses in the first week. Those wankers flunked out and were never seen again. There is more to arch undergrad (even in a bottom rung place like UofT) than Instagram worthy "design".
quokkamarsh
Oct 14, 24 4:03 pm
Okay, I'll give myself an ego check and focus on what's in front of me for the time being. As you said, the basic foundations are important for good design, and I'll try to get that down pat. Thanks for the advice and have a great holiday weekend!
will galloway
Oct 16, 24 5:02 pm
I did fine arts and switched to architecture after 1 year of painting stuff. At U of Manitoba, 25 years ago. We did not design a building in first year at all. We did a lot of design and learned a lot of theory of color and composition because that was the design pedagogy at the time. Our program was a bit looney and creative oriented and I liked it. From what I see/hear schools today are all much more professional facing now. Except maybe UofT, which from the outside looks like a bachelor of Arts with an architecture major. The master of architecture is a different story. If you want to design right away Toronto Metropolitan University architecture (where I teach currently) is very practical and students are into full design mode right off the bat. The tradeoff is that students dont learn as much theory and that has an effect in the long run too. Our graduates do tend to be very employable though.
About the uncertainty of the program, after such a short time it is hard to say that you have been exposed to enough to know one way or another about how the program will roll out. It is pretty normal to be uncertain though and you are young enough to have time to try several things. Try not to become too stressed out over it all.
FWIW, I took a few years out of archischool to move to Japan to paint (which I did a LOT of back then), and ended up working for an architecture firm and returned to uni refreshed and certain about what I wanted to do. From there went to london, UK and then Tokyo where I earned PhD and started an office with my friends. My path is so improbable that I cant recommend it to anyone, except to reiterate that there is time to find your own way and you are still at the beginning of it all.
Non Sequitur
Oct 16, 24 6:13 pm
Send some of your brightest students east a bit… we’re starving here for quality hires. 8-)
Hi,
As the title suggests, I am currently a first-year undergraduate who is about one month into my studies at UofT Daniels. Needless to say, I have become slightly disillusioned with the program. I was initially attracted to Architecture because I am interested in the human aspect of design: considering public/private spaces, how light and sound affect the user, and developing design solutions regarding a wide range of social issues (such as climate, etc). However, while the people so far have been great, UofT's curriculum has been unable to stretch me creatively.
I am thinking of reapplying to a more rigorous practical arts program (i.e. Sheridan's Hons Bachelor of Animation, another program that I previously got into) and then pursuing an M.Arch at UofT/UBC or getting an Architectural Technician diploma while completing Summer Intro courses. While working in animation has always been my dream, the animation industry is oversaturated, very unstable, and (shockingly!) pays even less than architecture (~35k w/o union vs ~50k entry). Architecture is also very integrated into the social fabric and has a problem-solving aspect that I like. I plan on achieving a nice balance of both so that I can pivot from one industry to another (as well as construction etc.) when times get tough. Would welcome some advice from practicing architects in Canada as I come from a non-arts immigrant family and have been unable to discuss this with anyone.
Thanks!
A burnt-out 18-year-old lol.
I'll bite and hopefully I can help a little.
I started out in fine arts, including a brief stint studying animation. Several of my peers went to Sheridan, an excellent program (that just means the program is good; it doesn't mean you'll be able to find a job in the field).
The path you're suggesting is so off-the-wall that I simply don't understand where you're coming from. There are different undergrad programs across Canada, and UofT is nowhere near the top. Having said that, is an undergrad degree and it absolutely does not matter where you get your degree from in Canada, because you still can't (really) get licensed as an architect with only a Bachelor degree. My advice would be to seek out other programs, rather than abandon ship. Most M.Arch programs won't allow direct entry from a non-architecture undergrad degree, so keep that in mind as well. The path you're dreaming up isn't well thought out or researched at all.
I can tell you as somebody with a degree in product design, even though that's as close as you can get to architecture without it being architecture, there's essentially no crossover. If you think you'll be doing animations for an architecture firm, you probably won't - because it's never been a traditional role, and even in-house rendering is almost obsolete these days. With AI coming, that's a dead end.
You need to decide what you actually want to do. It doesn't have to be architecture and it doesn't have to be animation. But only dabbling in one or both is only going to get you left behind by your peers, unless you can come up with a viable position/role that nobody else can do, and that's a very risky proposition for somebody who's never worked in either industry.
Hey, thanks so much for responding! You’re right – I need to figure out which of the two I want to pursue. If this is what the architecture industry is like, it may not be the path for me.
You mentioned starting out in fine arts but working in product design. How does that feel creatively? I realize now that there is little crossover between the skill sets needed in both fields. What prompted the change?
In addition, you mentioned knowing a couple of Sheridan animation graduates who I presume are now working in adjacent fields, not animation. Do you think that animation is still a viable career path, or is the door closed now that the industry is in shambles and AI is up-and-coming?
Thanks for your help. Got lots to think about.
Hey!
I completely understand how you feel! I recently graduated from Daniels' undergrad program. You have a clear vision of what you want to do in the architectural field, but you haven't been given the space to develop those interests further. If you really want to pursue your interests, you can always join architectural competitions or try submitting a research proposal for the Laidlaw Foundation (talk to the registrar about Laidlaw, and they'll be able to provide you with more info). UofT's architecture program is very slow and underdeveloped compared to other undergraduate architecture programs nationwide and internationally. They don't have enough studio courses (nor open studios).
I agree with bowling_ball that you need to decide what you want to do. Right now, you're dabbling in two different fields that are equally unstable (though every field has some degree of instability). If you're interested in continuing your architectural studies and feel that UofT is not helping you make any progressions, then you can try transferring to a different uni. However, make sure you compare amenities/facilities before submitting a transfer application.
Yes, that is exactly how I feel! I thought a BA over a BArch or BSc would allow me more design freedom, but we’ve not had a single design opportunity. While my friends in Singapore are on their 2nd/3rd modelling project, I’ve yet to touch a piece of cardboard. It’s killing me because I want to be doing more than just copying existing furniture. Thank you for your recommendations! I’ll definitely look into the Laidlaw Foundation and some architectural competitions online. I booked a meeting with academic conselling and I’ll be sure to bring this up with them. I might be judging too harshly because I know actual studio classes begin second year and I haven’t tried that out yet. I also know someone who graduated from this program who has an absolutely amazing portfolio and is working very successfully right now. Does it get better? How would you rate your experiences of third and fourth year, as well as the wider industry now that you’re done undergrad?
Hey quokkamarsh!
Hey quokkamarsh!
Not sure why this keeps happening. Hopefully, what I wrote shows up. If not, I'll rewrite what I originally wrote.
Dear 18-year-old,
You're one month in! How are you sure that there won't be opportunity for creativity? Or that the things you desire to learn won't be taught? How on earth are you burnt out already? It's possible that you've got a very good read on the situation (in which case, read my next paragraph), but it's also very possible that your expectations are just not matching up with reality. Give it more than a month, it may take a bit of faith and effort to understand how or what you're learning.
Ok, that being said. If you're feeling ambivalent, an MArch after a non-architecture undergrad degree is a perfectly awesome path. I figured out I wanted to be an architect my second year of undergrad, with no easy way to start a BArch. Decided to study something completely different before moving on to the MArch, and worked in the trades for a few years in between for fun. It's brought me a lot of satisfaction to have a broad set of knowledge and experience, and I kinda feel like it's given me an advantage in school and at work as well. If you are passionate about the social aspects of architecture, I would even recommend getting a humanities degree (mine is in Anthropology), it's a good time.
Good luck! Don't forget to chill a bit.
Hey! Thank you for being so encouraging. It's nice to see that there's someone who went through what I'm feeling now. I do tend to over-stress quite a bit so I will chill and give it time as you suggested.
If you don't mind me asking, how was the experience pivoting to the MArch after anthro? I was actually planning on doing that as a minor before thinking of switching out.
Looks like you've gotten some good advice about your specific university... I also transferred institutions my second year, so don't hesitate if you know it's going to be better!
As for anthro, wow, it was awesome. Like I said, a future MArch was in the back of my mind the whole time. That brought another dimension to my coursework and also relieved me of some of the career anxiety that other students had. I found the field itself endlessly fascinating and meaningful. My department was very concerned with methodology: how information is assembled, how history affects shared meaning, how material conditions influence pretty much everything, etc... These are intellectual skills you can apply to anything. Most importantly, I learned how to write and construct arguments. This is the probably the most significant difference that I could see between myself and my BA peers. Research and communication are absolutely critical to the work I do now, and it's definitely recognized by others. Finally, I'll just add that architecture careers (and others, I'm sure) are long. Of course, don't take on any debt you can't handle, but it's a real privilege to get a liberal arts education! I'm certainly grateful for it.
UofT undergrad is not an architecture degree. It is a general arts undergrad that dabbles in design or urban planning (mostly toronto-centric). It's a pretty poor design degree so I'm not surprised you feel this way if you came in with high expectations.
But, you're only a month in. If that's too much for you, then we have some news for you because architecture is a long road. Best advice it to see the semester through and if that fails, make the transfer elsewhere.
Ah, a comment from the man himself. I'm not frustrated by the workload, mainly by the course content so far.
Duly noted - will give that a try.
Thanks a bunch!
Hey, it's a holiday weekend up here after all. We did not touch design until midway through 2nd term 1st year... But that was 20y ago. Just remember that the school is trying to give you the basic foundation for design and design thinking. Maybe you think you know something but you do not, no one does at that age. Back when I was in undergrad (Carleton), there were plenty who complained that they were not designing houses in the first week. Those wankers flunked out and were never seen again. There is more to arch undergrad (even in a bottom rung place like UofT) than Instagram worthy "design".
Okay, I'll give myself an ego check and focus on what's in front of me for the time being. As you said, the basic foundations are important for good design, and I'll try to get that down pat. Thanks for the advice and have a great holiday weekend!
I did fine arts and switched to architecture after 1 year of painting stuff. At U of Manitoba, 25 years ago. We did not design a building in first year at all. We did a lot of design and learned a lot of theory of color and composition because that was the design pedagogy at the time. Our program was a bit looney and creative oriented and I liked it. From what I see/hear schools today are all much more professional facing now. Except maybe UofT, which from the outside looks like a bachelor of Arts with an architecture major. The master of architecture is a different story.
If you want to design right away Toronto Metropolitan University architecture (where I teach currently) is very practical and students are into full design mode right off the bat. The tradeoff is that students dont learn as much theory and that has an effect in the long run too. Our graduates do tend to be very employable though.
About the uncertainty of the program, after such a short time it is hard to say that you have been exposed to enough to know one way or another about how the program will roll out. It is pretty normal to be uncertain though and you are young enough to have time to try several things. Try not to become too stressed out over it all.
FWIW, I took a few years out of archischool to move to Japan to paint (which I did a LOT of back then), and ended up working for an architecture firm and returned to uni refreshed and certain about what I wanted to do. From there went to london, UK and then Tokyo where I earned PhD and started an office with my friends. My path is so improbable that I cant recommend it to anyone, except to reiterate that there is time to find your own way and you are still at the beginning of it all.
Send some of your brightest students east a bit… we’re starving here for quality hires. 8-)