Now tell me why you continue to work for someone else.
I get the questions so much (when are you going to go out on your own?) and the answer is "probably never" or "when I get invited to be the design partner in a new firm" because I would be terrible at all the things you need to do to actually run a business.
Bench
Apr 26, 24 8:51 am
Ha - that's funny, I was actually thinking the same thing in terms of threads. No shade or anything against Chad or other posters there, the insight was great and i really value reading about it.
Alternatively though, I work at one of the biggest firms in the country, on very visible public projects, many of which have been published here on archinect and in other media. I love it. The opportunities that open up to you in bigger multi-national firms can be endless, if you go in with reasonable expectations and good interpersonal skills. Im extremely proud of the portfolio of project credits i've built up less than ten years out of school. Ive also travelled extensively on work trips and got to see parts of NA and EU that i would not have otherwise gone. The mentorship aspect is (mostly) really good - and if its not working like i want, i can just go find another person internally to get advice from, both professionally and personally. I know that I want to work just directly on projects right now, and not having to go out looking for work or managing an office allows me to do that. Maybe that would change in the future, and if it does, the place i'm at would (probably) be able to make that work. If they don't, i'm quite confident in my porfolio to make a lateral move if desired. Right now we have a huge backlog of major projects so there isn't really much reason to look around.
Ever since i received my license, i've been getting the same question you mention above. At least three longtime friends reached out about house builds or additions. And its really hard to explain to people that just 'going out on your own' isn't a be-all/end-all to every architect. For one it would require a massive shift in my scope of work. I'd love to do some custom houses for close friends, but not at this point in time. The side-quests are too deep for me to have any interest at the moment.
luvu
Apr 29, 24 12:08 am
I can relate, we are at the same progression/ career trajectory i feel. I find the longer I stay ( corporate/ large projects) the harder it is to phase out to smaller project types . This has been something that I have been thinking about a lot lately , whether i should make a move. I love what I do at the current role/ meaningful projects but on the other hand I’m still craving inside to do my own thing, doing architecture my own way….
monosierra
Apr 26, 24 8:54 am
Insurance is a killer for many young firms. Not being able to pay the premiums necessary for mandatory insurance effectively prices smaller firms out of certain projects with insurance requirements.
Richard Balkins
Apr 26, 24 11:47 am
Agree. Exactly pointed out by an insurance agent in a CE course I was online at on Tuesday.
Josh Mings
Apr 26, 24 11:48 am
Read this as I'm dealing with an insurance thing this morning (nothing bad).
joseffischer
Apr 26, 24 11:34 am
I don't think I add value to the market that isn't currently provided at firms already in each sector I'm an expert in. Don't get me wrong, I believe I have a lot of value and get to contribute that at the firms I've worked at. They must believe so too since they pay me well enough. There's some theoretical possibility that I could bring in enough work and grow a company sustainably in a niche that would provide me a lot more money... but even excluding the risk, the amount of effort to run a firm for that potential financial increase does not appeal to me.
I get to architect in the areas of architecting that I'm good at and I'm paid well... so I stay.
Chad Miller
Apr 26, 24 11:50 am
I don't want to have to be solely responsible for finding work. Period.
I also hate the following 'sayings' which means wouldn't be good at managing an office.
"the customer is always right" - not the entire quote "in matters of taste"
"it's not what you say but how you say it"
archanonymous
Apr 27, 24 6:51 am
I have hated pretty much every client ive had to interact closely with in my career. Maybe disdain is a better word. Lol.
Wilma Buttfit
Apr 26, 24 11:59 am
As someone who’s been on my own, I’m now considering going back to not on my own. Mostly to work on bigger projects and share some of the stress and overhead and help keep up with technology, software, and codes.
Chad Miller
Apr 26, 24 12:12 pm
That's a good point. I love being on a team. For me working by myself on something is no enjoyable.
Richard Balkins
Apr 26, 24 6:46 pm
I agree.
Even with my own business, consideration for adding an architect or two on the team, (like Wilma said, opportunities to work on bigger projects.... and share the stress and overhead...) but also like you said, with even a small team, be more enjoyable than working alone and solo. Someone else to talk to with regards to the subject matter and even to bounce ideas off of even if I am exercising responsible control on an exempt project (contracted as "building design service") but also when working together on performance of architectural services (services where an architect is in responsible control or otherwise preparing or otherwise constitutes the practice of architecture), the idea sharing that could take place and the dialogue. Could be interesting, fun, and enjoyable.
Better than having a conversation with a wall.
whistler
Apr 26, 24 6:27 pm
I responded to the other thread but the idea of not going on my was defeated when after 5 years of working for someone else they ran out of work and I and the other 5 staff were abruptly laid off. Even though i was the most senior staffer by 2 years or so I was kicked to the curb. Freshly married and expecting my first child I was instead walking home at 1:30 in the afternoon...one of the most depressing moments of my life. I couldn't believe how I had been let down after putting my fate in someone else's hands. I left shortly after.
smaarch
Apr 29, 24 12:21 am
Yup. I will never give anyone that power over me. I'll decide my own fate - sink or swim. Watch the tide as well....
archanonymous
May 1, 24 7:43 am
Interesting. I've never been more than 1 or 2 calls away from a new job, no interview, no waiting. I guess that's how I feel more "in control."
Not sure if it would truly help though as in any downturn its just as dangerous to be on your own as with an office and in neither case are you truly in control.
Once I literally walked out of an office at lunch, called my former professor, walked a few blocks to his office, we met with HR and set a start date, I walked back to my other office and gave them my notice and took two weeks off.
whistler
May 1, 24 1:17 pm
Love that feeling of being "in control" of your career. That is fortuitous circumstance, mine came with a real shift in communities and role but equally positive and to be honest defining of my future and my families security.
JLC-1
Apr 27, 24 2:22 am
Early on I had so many "partners" promising the sky and running away with the clients and money, and more than a couple of clients not paying, so I gave up on the idea. Then I moved to the states and couldn't get licensed for many real reasons, the obstacles were bigger than my ego.
Everyday Architect
Apr 29, 24 5:57 pm
The things I'm good at don't bring work in the door. I'd rather work for someone who is good at bringing work in, and then I can focus on the stuff that I do well. It doesn't always work out, but that's usually when my employer and I can't decide on what adequate compensation and supporting my role should be.
My only desire to go out on my own would be if I decided I wanted to work as a third-party consultant rather than as an in-house employee. I've seriously thought about it, and I could probably make more money that way, but I'd also have to worry about running a business rather than just getting my work done, and that doesn't appeal to me.
Chad Miller
Apr 29, 24 6:01 pm
I'm the same way.
If I may ask; what things are you good at? If you're not comfortable answering I understand.
Everyday Architect
Apr 30, 24 12:50 am
If I had to distill it into a few words or sentences, I'd say I'm good at quality assurance (making sure our processes are good enough to prevent quality issues). But even that is too vague to really describe what I do most of the time.
I do a lot of research on materials and systems and advise teams, and some code research to make sure we aren't sideways on certain things that tend to get overlooked for lack of enforcement or complexity. I look at our contracts/agreements with our clients as much as I can to ensure we are 1) following what we agreed to, and 2) not doing things we didn't agree to, which pisses off a lot of PMs because I get to ask them questions like, "why are you producing these things when you don't need to per our agreement?" I also get a lot of questions from teams during CA about RFIs, Change Orders, substitution requests. Some of that is actual advice on the thing being asked, more often it's advice on following the outlined procedures in the General Conditions and Div 01. I probably stick my nose into sustainability stuff more often than I need to, but I get tired of the approach of people just shot gunning LEED language in the specs hoping for LEED points without actually doing the research necessary to know whether or not it is feasible/achievable and writing requirements that are clear and enforceable. I look at and make changes to a lot of specs during DD, CD, and CA. I look at and redline a lot of changes to drawings during CDs to make our drawings better both technically and contractually.
I could go on, but basically I do the type of thing that most architects don't find exciting, and will never impress our clients (though it hopefully results in better outcomes they are impressed with), but absolutely results in a better quality of our services and reduces our liability and risk.
joseffischer
Apr 30, 24 8:22 am
If I could love your response I would, we have very similar roles. I've also thought of (been told) consulting as a more lucrative way of doing the same thing, though the only consultants I know that get hired are under the guise of code consultant, waterproofing consultant, and spec writer. Their scopes are often very confining and still don't cover everything described above.
Everyday Architect
Apr 30, 24 10:35 am
Exactly. The other thing is you sort of have to deal with all of the above in order to have good code fulfillment, good waterproofing, good specs, etc. I feel like as a consultant I'd have more ability to focus on just one of those things without all the other stuff, but I know I'd see their details for waterproofing and want to fix them, or tell them their not meeting the energy code, or see their specs and know they aren't coordinated nor correct, etc. In house that is all part of my purview. As a consultant focusing on just one of those things, I'm stepping on someone else's toes or getting beyond the scope of my services and increasing my risk and liability.
luvu
May 2, 24 9:29 pm
EA Interesting to read your thoughts on consulting roles, in that you have an interest in transitioning from a "generalist" to a specialist / more technical in a specific area. People I know , ex colleagues have gone the other direction, working on bigger scheme of things if you will ( project management / development private or public sector). Just wondering have you ever thought about becoming a specialist within architecture in specific sector i,e health planner / sporting venue specialist / rails or transportation etc ... just curious
Everyday Architect
May 3, 24 12:08 pm
I'd already consider myself specialized within the industry. I think the industry does as well judging by how many head hunters I get reaching out to me for specialized roles they are trying to fill.
Going out on my own as a consultant would only mean I could be pickier about the work I pursue and take on, and likely earn a higher income because of it. I'm not all that jazzed about working on some of the smaller projects we do for our clients, but as an employee (and in a role that touches basically all our projects) I don't really get to say no. I could however say no to that work if I was a consultant and focus on the more interesting projects I actually do enjoy working on. I already know firms that are hiring out some of what I do to consultants and they are paying them more for that work than they would pay someone like me to do it in house (it was actually a big part of the reason I left a firm 5 years ago).
Despite it's downsides, I do think I like working in house better than I would as a consultant. As an employee I get more of a say in the project than I'd be able to get as a consultant. I also get to help mentor and train newer employees and I hope it helps make them better architects. Finally, I also get to focus on doing the work rather than finding the work and running a business and all it entails.
Everyday Architect
May 3, 24 12:15 pm
But to maybe get a little bit closer to what you might have been asking ... if I were to go out on my own I'd probably do consultancy in one of the following (in no particular order):
Energy and/or building code,
Construction Management (as advisor),
Quality Control and/or Constructability,
Envelope and/or Waterproofing,
Specifications,
Sustainability,
and others that are a little harder to explain in a couple words.
I've also been specifically approached by principals and others about doing consultancy for specifications and door hardware of all things. I do know a number of people that are consultants for those things and I'm not that interested in doing what they do. I'd want to take a different approach to those types of services if I were to get into them. I know of one person that has built themselves a consultancy business pretty close to what I'd want to do, but they are having mixed success with it. I don't think it's an issue of the clientele or the services offered, but more an issue of they are in a controlled descent into retirement and aren't really pushing it to grow.
sameolddoctor
Apr 30, 24 3:33 am
If I ever wanted to do my own thing, I am sure it WOULD NOT be an architectural office. Id rather open a doggy daycare, or bike shop, or coffee shop ... lifes too short for this shit!
archanonymous
Apr 30, 24 7:24 am
I feel the same... I've been thinking about like architecture history tours or coffee shop, something vaguely aligned with architecture but without the horrible bosses, clients and contractors.
bowling_ball
Apr 30, 24 8:39 am
There's an unlicensed architect (for all intents and purposes) who does this in my city - a cute little coffee shop where he uses his students as staff. I'm pretty sure he's never made an actual dollar after about a decade so far. Maybe you also have a wealthy family?
Chad Miller
Apr 30, 24 9:47 am
While that sounds like fun SOM - all those endeavors have a much lower profit margin and require more work than architecture.
sameolddoctor
Apr 30, 24 9:33 pm
Bowling and Chad, if I had a wealthy family, I would already be doing this and not toiling day in and out in this profession lol
x-jla
Apr 30, 24 10:47 pm
If I was rich I’d be doing what I do, just in a different way, removing myself from the for profit /business side of things. That’s where the stress and aggravation is. I’d love to buy derelict lots and turn them into botanical gardens, food gardens, playgrounds, or something for communities. The commercial aspects of a consumer business are what make It tiresome.
sameolddoctor
May 1, 24 2:03 am
Doggy daycare, Bike shop and I guess I can use my skills to make nice sheltered spaces along bike trails..
archanonymous
May 1, 24 7:44 am
I'm going to open a rehab center/ cat cafe to help all the delusional architects in here.
Chad Miller
May 1, 24 9:59 am
If I was wealthy I'd travel, hike, hunt, and sketch. Oh and have 23 dogs.
atelier nobody
May 2, 24 3:35 pm
I'm terrible at marketing - I could never bring in enough projects to keep myself working.
Wilma Buttfit
May 2, 24 4:48 pm
I’m better at getting the work than completing it. Not sure which is better/worse.
Chad Miller
May 2, 24 5:11 pm
I'm horrible at finding work. Hence why I don't want to go out on my own or run a firm.
bowling_ball
May 2, 24 5:53 pm
No person can do it all. That's why we have multiple partners with differing skill sets. There's really not enough time in the day to be good at networking, signing contracts, knowing codes, designing, etc etc. If you can do it all very well, I'd say you're lying TBH
Chad Miller
May 2, 24 6:11 pm
True. Then again you need to do it all when you're the sole managing partner. That's what would scare me.
Josh Mings
May 2, 24 6:23 pm
I will say I doubt myself A LOT but I’ve been damn lucky with the relationships I’ve built over the years
Richard Balkins
May 2, 24 6:32 pm
Doing something or doing it all "very well" is subjective, somewhat. Depends on the criteria. You can do "it all" very well but usually your project scope is very particular and you have a niche you are in and a deep supply of clients you are in demand. However, you usually can't do large scale projects solo. You need a team at some point. Sole-managing partner and functionally, a sole-practitioner is very difficult and large projects are hard to do unless it may be your only project for a significant period of time. You have to be good at managing what you can do. It also means in such situations, you are like having two jobs. Sometimes upwards of 80 hours a week at times to get it done. You can't do it all in 40-ish hours a week. It comes at a cost.... work/life balance. So it is nice to have a team.
You will generally want at least a team of partners (maybe 3-5) which can get the ball rolling, share the work load and collectively work to procure work. Not a job for one person to do but certain individuals may be more gifted and apt than others in certain sectors. It is a lot about connections and knowing where to look for projects and get in the game. Once you have some steady flow of projects and revenue and maybe after you start having net profits that you can pool up to start hiring staff. Remember, managing partners / principals, customarily do not have high utilization rate.
This is when you bring people who is possibly at a lower pay rate than yourselves (but still paid respectfully) as project architects. Maybe 2-3 of them and an office admin and assistant. Then you higher AXP trainees/interns about 1-2 maybe up to 3 per project architect which also a portion may assist also the principals as well. Networking/IT folks would be contracted services for a small firm. This would be something possible over a 5-10 maybe 15 year timeframe if you have okay and good economy and no very deep recessions or depression economy as bad or worse than the 2008-2012-ish recession over the next 25 to 35 years. You need to expand and contract staff in cycles during these time frames, bill smartly. Collect proactively in a smart and effective manner.
Treat people good. Build a respected reputation. Work diligently but treat yourself with respect and your staff. Schedule with appropriate and reasonable timeframe so work can be done timely without pushing constant extreme hours. Don't take on too much for yourselves to do. Charge appropriately so you can do the work. Manage the scope of work and hold to it but hold to your word as well. Do it as a team if you can.
Wood Guy
May 2, 24 7:14 pm
Marketing is the part of my job that I'm best at. My reputation far outweighs my abilities. I get multiple inquiries for good projects every week but I can only do a handful of projects a year.
And I'm an introverted, unlicensed stutterer living in the middle of nowhere...
Chad Miller
May 2, 24 7:20 pm
I'm a licensed stutterer living in almost the middle of nowhere . . .
Wilma Buttfit
May 3, 24 12:16 am
Licensed overthinker ruminator in the epicenter of nowhere here.
archanonymous
May 3, 24 7:16 am
Licensed van dweller dwelling in a van anyone need a van designed or something that isn't a van designed from a van?
atelier nobody
May 3, 24 2:57 pm
Licensed unemployed ADHDer in a major metro trying to figure out what to do with the rest of my life. Anyone need some drawings QC'd, or maybe some specs?
Everyday Architect
May 3, 24 3:02 pm
atelier nobody ... unemployed?!? I thought you posted on TC like just last summer/fall that you were at a new job?
Edit to add: Jan 18, '24 you noted at the end of a comment in TC "(I started a new job in August, which is great, but I'm still feeling some of the effects of the burnout.)"
Sounds like it didn't work out? Sorry ... that sucks!
atelier nobody
May 3, 24 4:23 pm
Thanks, EA. Yeah, it turns out I did bring the burnout from the last job with me into the new one. At this point I don't know if I'm going to look for another architecture job or try something else. I may be joining archanonymous as a van-dweller.
Wilma Buttfit
May 3, 24 8:28 pm
I’ve been shopping for a van.
archanonymous
May 3, 24 8:56 pm
Highly recommend it!
Wilma Buttfit
May 3, 24 11:17 pm
Any tips? Buy used and fix up the interior was my thought.
Richard Balkins
May 4, 24 3:13 am
Unless you get a good van where you don't need to fix up the interior at a steal of a price.
archanonymous
May 4, 24 7:13 am
I live in a metaphorical van (not an actual van) as some of you may have guessed, but nonetheless I highly recommend taking a break from architecture. Whether that's a 3 month to 1 year sabbatical or planning a long term exit, it had been crucial to get out of the insular architecture community, remind myself the general public does not give a fuck about us, and maybe travel some to see how much larger an impact politics, planning, and culture make than anything an architect could ever do.
Wilma Buttfit
May 4, 24 2:05 pm
Ok no fair. I thought there was a van.
archanonymous
May 5, 24 8:42 am
There isn't actually a van, but you can actually hire me as a motivational speaker:
curtkram
May 5, 24 6:39 pm
i know a guy who did the van thing. seems to me the most important thing is to be a small person. i occupy too much space for that lifestyle
Richard Balkins
May 5, 24 8:13 pm
Bus?
archanonymous
May 5, 24 8:48 am
Serious question @bowlingball regarding your partnership - your sales person/ people must be great - humble and aware, no? Everytime I've seen this dynamic in play professionally or discussed starting a firm with other respected architects it becomes a "eat what you kill" scenario.
Very rare to find someone trained in architecture but with the personality to go out an get work who also doesn't have a gigantic ego telling them that they need to dictate the design. Or spouting off to the client about what the shit is going to like like while they are half drunk.
bowling_ball
May 5, 24 6:16 pm
We each have our own clientele, more or less, but we each have skills that don't overlap to a large degree, so we rely on each other to provide the stability a firm needs. There's zero ego at the firm, be design. Two of us have taught in universities and are often happiest when we see others succeed. The third partner is an Eastern European immigrant with the humble work ethic to match. I'm on the autism spectrum and don't fully understand what it means to be jealous....
bowling_ball
May 5, 24 6:18 pm
We also have an informal but oft-reinforced philosophy of never saying "I..." unless it's to own up to a mistake. Credit is always "we," period, because that's the truth and it's easy to say.
Bench
May 5, 24 8:20 pm
Man i wish that last bit was more common.
Chad Miller
May 6, 24 10:30 am
That's how our office is. "We created a solution to a issues I created."
archanonymous
May 7, 24 7:06 am
Chad, are you replying to my initial comment? A principal or vp goes out to wine and dine a client and win a job, says some dumb shit, then it becomes your problem to solve the issue they created?
Chad Miller
May 7, 24 10:33 am
No. I was referring to praise being given to the entire team. It's common to hear something like 'despite my involvement the team did a great project' from management. The funny thing is that everyone else on the team is saying 'dang, without this person we would of been screwed'
archanonymous
May 7, 24 1:54 pm
Aw nice. That's like the humble opposite.
bennyc
May 6, 24 12:55 pm
Although I went on my own, the reason I would chose to not go on my own is if thought design and architecture skill alone would carry me through it. If you think that now and want to go on your own, don't!
Another reason not to go on your own, thinking that your network, connections, colleagues and professional network will carry you through! Network is important yes, but just assume that nobody will care or provide any type of help, leads, or recommendation!
If you are not ok and content with waking up every day, going hunting (meaning being ruthless about making money) and not knowing where your next check is coming from, and all this while supporting a family, then do not go on your own.
archanonymous
May 7, 24 7:08 am
Exactly my feelings and great validation for not going out on my own. I can't be ruthless about making money, it just doesn't interest me. I'm like the capybara of the architecture world or something. Like lets just hang out and be friends.
Josh Mings
May 7, 24 9:49 am
I need to get a van and park it next to yours.
whistler
May 7, 24 5:01 pm
There is the opportunity to find a balance between being the "hunter and the hunted". I don't manage a huge firm so I don't wake up every morning thinking about getting more work and truthfully that is what larger firms need to do. Friends of mine in the business now working in large corporate setting s need to do that every day. On the other end is managing a smallish firm that isn't doing small piddly projects but a mix of scales and clients who provide repeat business with opportunities for decent commissions and the occasional public RFPs and more importantly can say no to projects and clients that don't align with your goals and objectives. It wasn't always that way but it has been curated to achieve that in a very strategic manner.
bowling_ball
May 7, 24 5:22 pm
Whistler this is how we're set up. A good chunk of our business comes from repeat and new clients who come to us (~40%); another ~40% comes from bids for a specific typology/ programme, and the remaining comes from 'fun' stuff we go after to build our portfolio and relationships. Of our three partners, I'm probably chasing work the least but have larger responsibilities in regards to the nuts and bolts of the company - strategic planning, quality control, zoning and building codes, etc. This suits my personality the best and I can still manage to work an occasional afternoon from the pub when I feel like it.
Chad Miller
May 7, 24 5:31 pm
Wow BB - our firms appear to be similar in this aspect.
monosierra
May 7, 24 11:19 am
I've noticed that having a teaching job is a huge first step for some young designers: A regular income, health insurance, access to fabrication resources, and for the less scrupulous - free or heavily subsidized labor in the form of eager students.
Chad Miller
May 7, 24 11:45 am
Student labor should like that should be illegal and any prof that uses it should be fired and loose their license.
Also - how can you teach something when you've never actually done it?
monosierra
May 7, 24 12:52 pm
That's the conundrum of American architectural academia. Best exemplified by the Sci Arc kerfuffle a couple of years back, where a paper architect straight from the '80s and his partner blackmailed students into working for free.
Folks like them take pride in not working at all - to them, they never sold out and are thus brave artists.
Chad Miller
May 7, 24 1:43 pm
I've only had three instructors that weren't architects with at least 20 years experience. Two were great - they specialized in daylighting, passive solar, and emerging tech. Bothe were utilized by famous architects on various actual projects. The other was a worthless theorist.
monosierra
May 8, 24 12:50 pm
Haha, at least you have a 2:1 ratio. At a lot of schools now, the ratio is 5:1 in favor of artists. The past few years have seen a new vanguard of theorist-artist with careers built on studying the study of architecture rather than architecture itself - critical theory taken to its max. As you can imagine, the discourse focuses on the discourse and curricula becomes a self-fellating circle.
archiwutm8
May 7, 24 12:02 pm
I honestly have no interest in doing smaller projects such as extensions, toilet refits or even people homes.
Plus I detest all the client interaction I do sometimes that isn’t a blue chip.
Chad Miller
May 7, 24 1:40 pm
So what do you work on then? Please provide some examples.
We've had the other thread.
Now tell me why you continue to work for someone else.
I get the questions so much (when are you going to go out on your own?) and the answer is "probably never" or "when I get invited to be the design partner in a new firm" because I would be terrible at all the things you need to do to actually run a business.
Ha - that's funny, I was actually thinking the same thing in terms of threads. No shade or anything against Chad or other posters there, the insight was great and i really value reading about it.
Alternatively though, I work at one of the biggest firms in the country, on very visible public projects, many of which have been published here on archinect and in other media. I love it. The opportunities that open up to you in bigger multi-national firms can be endless, if you go in with reasonable expectations and good interpersonal skills. Im extremely proud of the portfolio of project credits i've built up less than ten years out of school. Ive also travelled extensively on work trips and got to see parts of NA and EU that i would not have otherwise gone. The mentorship aspect is (mostly) really good - and if its not working like i want, i can just go find another person internally to get advice from, both professionally and personally. I know that I want to work just directly on projects right now, and not having to go out looking for work or managing an office allows me to do that. Maybe that would change in the future, and if it does, the place i'm at would (probably) be able to make that work. If they don't, i'm quite confident in my porfolio to make a lateral move if desired. Right now we have a huge backlog of major projects so there isn't really much reason to look around.
Ever since i received my license, i've been getting the same question you mention above. At least three longtime friends reached out about house builds or additions. And its really hard to explain to people that just 'going out on your own' isn't a be-all/end-all to every architect. For one it would require a massive shift in my scope of work. I'd love to do some custom houses for close friends, but not at this point in time. The side-quests are too deep for me to have any interest at the moment.
I can relate, we are at the same progression/ career trajectory i feel. I find the longer I stay ( corporate/ large projects) the harder it is to phase out to smaller project types . This has been something that I have been thinking about a lot lately , whether i should make a move. I love what I do at the current role/ meaningful projects but on the other hand I’m still craving inside to do my own thing, doing architecture my own way….
Insurance is a killer for many young firms. Not being able to pay the premiums necessary for mandatory insurance effectively prices smaller firms out of certain projects with insurance requirements.
Agree. Exactly pointed out by an insurance agent in a CE course I was online at on Tuesday.
Read this as I'm dealing with an insurance thing this morning (nothing bad).
I don't think I add value to the market that isn't currently provided at firms already in each sector I'm an expert in. Don't get me wrong, I believe I have a lot of value and get to contribute that at the firms I've worked at. They must believe so too since they pay me well enough. There's some theoretical possibility that I could bring in enough work and grow a company sustainably in a niche that would provide me a lot more money... but even excluding the risk, the amount of effort to run a firm for that potential financial increase does not appeal to me.
I get to architect in the areas of architecting that I'm good at and I'm paid well... so I stay.
I don't want to have to be solely responsible for finding work. Period.
I also hate the following 'sayings' which means wouldn't be good at managing an office.
"the customer is always right" - not the entire quote "in matters of taste"
"it's not what you say but how you say it"
I have hated pretty much every client ive had to interact closely with in my career. Maybe disdain is a better word. Lol.
As someone who’s been on my own, I’m now considering going back to not on my own. Mostly to work on bigger projects and share some of the stress and overhead and help keep up with technology, software, and codes.
That's a good point. I love being on a team. For me working by myself on something is no enjoyable.
I agree.
Even with my own business, consideration for adding an architect or two on the team, (like Wilma said, opportunities to work on bigger projects.... and share the stress and overhead...) but also like you said, with even a small team, be more enjoyable than working alone and solo. Someone else to talk to with regards to the subject matter and even to bounce ideas off of even if I am exercising responsible control on an exempt project (contracted as "building design service") but also when working together on performance of architectural services (services where an architect is in responsible control or otherwise preparing or otherwise constitutes the practice of architecture), the idea sharing that could take place and the dialogue. Could be interesting, fun, and enjoyable.
Better than having a conversation with a wall.
I responded to the other thread but the idea of not going on my was defeated when after 5 years of working for someone else they ran out of work and I and the other 5 staff were abruptly laid off. Even though i was the most senior staffer by 2 years or so I was kicked to the curb. Freshly married and expecting my first child I was instead walking home at 1:30 in the afternoon...one of the most depressing moments of my life. I couldn't believe how I had been let down after putting my fate in someone else's hands. I left shortly after.
Yup. I will never give anyone that power over me. I'll decide my own fate - sink or swim. Watch the tide as well....
Interesting. I've never been more than 1 or 2 calls away from a new job, no interview, no waiting. I guess that's how I feel more "in control."
Not sure if it would truly help though as in any downturn its just as dangerous to be on your own as with an office and in neither case are you truly in control.
Once I literally walked out of an office at lunch, called my former professor, walked a few blocks to his office, we met with HR and set a start date, I walked back to my other office and gave them my notice and took two weeks off.
Love that feeling of being "in control" of your career. That is fortuitous circumstance, mine came with a real shift in communities and role but equally positive and to be honest defining of my future and my families security.
Early on I had so many "partners" promising the sky and running away with the clients and money, and more than a couple of clients not paying, so I gave up on the idea. Then I moved to the states and couldn't get licensed for many real reasons, the obstacles were bigger than my ego.
The things I'm good at don't bring work in the door. I'd rather work for someone who is good at bringing work in, and then I can focus on the stuff that I do well. It doesn't always work out, but that's usually when my employer and I can't decide on what adequate compensation and supporting my role should be.
My only desire to go out on my own would be if I decided I wanted to work as a third-party consultant rather than as an in-house employee. I've seriously thought about it, and I could probably make more money that way, but I'd also have to worry about running a business rather than just getting my work done, and that doesn't appeal to me.
I'm the same way.
If I may ask; what things are you good at? If you're not comfortable answering I understand.
If I had to distill it into a few words or sentences, I'd say I'm good at quality assurance (making sure our processes are good enough to prevent quality issues). But even that is too vague to really describe what I do most of the time.
I do a lot of research on materials and systems and advise teams, and some code research to make sure we aren't sideways on certain things that tend to get overlooked for lack of enforcement or complexity. I look at our contracts/agreements with our clients as much as I can to ensure we are 1) following what we agreed to, and 2) not doing things we didn't agree to, which pisses off a lot of PMs because I get to ask them questions like, "why are you producing these things when you don't need to per our agreement?" I also get a lot of questions from teams during CA about RFIs, Change Orders, substitution requests. Some of that is actual advice on the thing being asked, more often it's advice on following the outlined procedures in the General Conditions and Div 01. I probably stick my nose into sustainability stuff more often than I need to, but I get tired of the approach of people just shot gunning LEED language in the specs hoping for LEED points without actually doing the research necessary to know whether or not it is feasible/achievable and writing requirements that are clear and enforceable. I look at and make changes to a lot of specs during DD, CD, and CA. I look at and redline a lot of changes to drawings during CDs to make our drawings better both technically and contractually.
I could go on, but basically I do the type of thing that most architects don't find exciting, and will never impress our clients (though it hopefully results in better outcomes they are impressed with), but absolutely results in a better quality of our services and reduces our liability and risk.
If I could love your response I would, we have very similar roles. I've also thought of (been told) consulting as a more lucrative way of doing the same thing, though the only consultants I know that get hired are under the guise of code consultant, waterproofing consultant, and spec writer. Their scopes are often very confining and still don't cover everything described above.
Exactly. The other thing is you sort of have to deal with all of the above in order to have good code fulfillment, good waterproofing, good specs, etc. I feel like as a consultant I'd have more ability to focus on just one of those things without all the other stuff, but I know I'd see their details for waterproofing and want to fix them, or tell them their not meeting the energy code, or see their specs and know they aren't coordinated nor correct, etc. In house that is all part of my purview. As a consultant focusing on just one of those things, I'm stepping on someone else's toes or getting beyond the scope of my services and increasing my risk and liability.
EA Interesting to read your thoughts on consulting roles, in that you have an interest in transitioning from a "generalist" to a specialist / more technical in a specific area. People I know , ex colleagues have gone the other direction, working on bigger scheme of things if you will ( project management / development private or public sector). Just wondering have you ever thought about becoming a specialist within architecture in specific sector i,e health planner / sporting venue specialist / rails or transportation etc ... just curious
I'd already consider myself specialized within the industry. I think the industry does as well judging by how many head hunters I get reaching out to me for specialized roles they are trying to fill.
Going out on my own as a consultant would only mean I could be pickier about the work I pursue and take on, and likely earn a higher income because of it. I'm not all that jazzed about working on some of the smaller projects we do for our clients, but as an employee (and in a role that touches basically all our projects) I don't really get to say no. I could however say no to that work if I was a consultant and focus on the more interesting projects I actually do enjoy working on. I already know firms that are hiring out some of what I do to consultants and they are paying them more for that work than they would pay someone like me to do it in house (it was actually a big part of the reason I left a firm 5 years ago).
Despite it's downsides, I do think I like working in house better than I would as a consultant. As an employee I get more of a say in the project than I'd be able to get as a consultant. I also get to help mentor and train newer employees and I hope it helps make them better architects. Finally, I also get to focus on doing the work rather than finding the work and running a business and all it entails.
But to maybe get a little bit closer to what you might have been asking ... if I were to go out on my own I'd probably do consultancy in one of the following (in no particular order):
I've also been specifically approached by principals and others about doing consultancy for specifications and door hardware of all things. I do know a number of people that are consultants for those things and I'm not that interested in doing what they do. I'd want to take a different approach to those types of services if I were to get into them. I know of one person that has built themselves a consultancy business pretty close to what I'd want to do, but they are having mixed success with it. I don't think it's an issue of the clientele or the services offered, but more an issue of they are in a controlled descent into retirement and aren't really pushing it to grow.
If I ever wanted to do my own thing, I am sure it WOULD NOT be an architectural office. Id rather open a doggy daycare, or bike shop, or coffee shop ... lifes too short for this shit!
I feel the same... I've been thinking about like architecture history tours or coffee shop, something vaguely aligned with architecture but without the horrible bosses, clients and contractors.
There's an unlicensed architect (for all intents and purposes) who does this in my city - a cute little coffee shop where he uses his students as staff. I'm pretty sure he's never made an actual dollar after about a decade so far. Maybe you also have a wealthy family?
While that sounds like fun SOM - all those endeavors have a much lower profit margin and require more work than architecture.
Bowling and Chad, if I had a wealthy family, I would already be doing this and not toiling day in and out in this profession lol
If I was rich I’d be doing what I do, just in a different way, removing myself from the for profit /business side of things. That’s where the stress and aggravation is. I’d love to buy derelict lots and turn them into botanical gardens, food gardens, playgrounds, or something for communities. The commercial aspects of a consumer business are what make It tiresome.
Doggy daycare, Bike shop and I guess I can use my skills to make nice sheltered spaces along bike trails..
I'm going to open a rehab center/ cat cafe to help all the delusional architects in here.
If I was wealthy I'd travel, hike, hunt, and sketch. Oh and have 23 dogs.
I'm terrible at marketing - I could never bring in enough projects to keep myself working.
I’m better at getting the work than completing it. Not sure which is better/worse.
I'm horrible at finding work. Hence why I don't want to go out on my own or run a firm.
No person can do it all. That's why we have multiple partners with differing skill sets. There's really not enough time in the day to be good at networking, signing contracts, knowing codes, designing, etc etc. If you can do it all very well, I'd say you're lying TBH
True. Then again you need to do it all when you're the sole managing partner. That's what would scare me.
I will say I doubt myself A LOT but I’ve been damn lucky with the relationships I’ve built over the years
Doing something or doing it all "very well" is subjective, somewhat. Depends on the criteria. You can do "it all" very well but usually your project scope is very particular and you have a niche you are in and a deep supply of clients you are in demand. However, you usually can't do large scale projects solo. You need a team at some point. Sole-managing partner and functionally, a sole-practitioner is very difficult and large projects are hard to do unless it may be your only project for a significant period of time. You have to be good at managing what you can do. It also means in such situations, you are like having two jobs. Sometimes upwards of 80 hours a week at times to get it done. You can't do it all in 40-ish hours a week. It comes at a cost.... work/life balance. So it is nice to have a team.
You will generally want at least a team of partners (maybe 3-5) which can get the ball rolling, share the work load and collectively work to procure work. Not a job for one person to do but certain individuals may be more gifted and apt than others in certain sectors. It is a lot about connections and knowing where to look for projects and get in the game. Once you have some steady flow of projects and revenue and maybe after you start having net profits that you can pool up to start hiring staff. Remember, managing partners / principals, customarily do not have high utilization rate.
This is when you bring people who is possibly at a lower pay rate than yourselves (but still paid respectfully) as project architects. Maybe 2-3 of them and an office admin and assistant. Then you higher AXP trainees/interns about 1-2 maybe up to 3 per project architect which also a portion may assist also the principals as well. Networking/IT folks would be contracted services for a small firm. This would be something possible over a 5-10 maybe 15 year timeframe if you have okay and good economy and no very deep recessions or depression economy as bad or worse than the 2008-2012-ish recession over the next 25 to 35 years. You need to expand and contract staff in cycles during these time frames, bill smartly. Collect proactively in a smart and effective manner.
Treat people good. Build a respected reputation. Work diligently but treat yourself with respect and your staff. Schedule with appropriate and reasonable timeframe so work can be done timely without pushing constant extreme hours. Don't take on too much for yourselves to do. Charge appropriately so you can do the work. Manage the scope of work and hold to it but hold to your word as well. Do it as a team if you can.
Marketing is the part of my job that I'm best at. My reputation far outweighs my abilities. I get multiple inquiries for good projects every week but I can only do a handful of projects a year.
And I'm an introverted, unlicensed stutterer living in the middle of nowhere...
I'm a licensed stutterer living in almost the middle of nowhere . . .
Licensed overthinker ruminator in the epicenter of nowhere here.
Licensed van dweller dwelling in a van anyone need a van designed or something that isn't a van designed from a van?
Licensed unemployed ADHDer in a major metro trying to figure out what to do with the rest of my life. Anyone need some drawings QC'd, or maybe some specs?
atelier nobody ... unemployed?!? I thought you posted on TC like just last summer/fall that you were at a new job?
Edit to add: Jan 18, '24 you noted at the end of a comment in TC "(I started a new job in August, which is great, but I'm still feeling some of the effects of the burnout.)"
Sounds like it didn't work out? Sorry ... that sucks!
Thanks, EA. Yeah, it turns out I did bring the burnout from the last job with me into the new one. At this point I don't know if I'm going to look for another architecture job or try something else. I may be joining archanonymous as a van-dweller.
I’ve been shopping for a van.
Highly recommend it!
Any tips? Buy used and fix up the interior was my thought.
Unless you get a good van where you don't need to fix up the interior at a steal of a price.
I live in a metaphorical van (not an actual van) as some of you may have guessed, but nonetheless I highly recommend taking a break from architecture. Whether that's a 3 month to 1 year sabbatical or planning a long term exit, it had been crucial to get out of the insular architecture community, remind myself the general public does not give a fuck about us, and maybe travel some to see how much larger an impact politics, planning, and culture make than anything an architect could ever do.
Ok no fair. I thought there was a van.
There isn't actually a van, but you can actually hire me as a motivational speaker:
i know a guy who did the van thing. seems to me the most important thing is to be a small person. i occupy too much space for that lifestyle
Bus?
Serious question @bowlingball regarding your partnership - your sales person/ people must be great - humble and aware, no? Everytime I've seen this dynamic in play professionally or discussed starting a firm with other respected architects it becomes a "eat what you kill" scenario.
Very rare to find someone trained in architecture but with the personality to go out an get work who also doesn't have a gigantic ego telling them that they need to dictate the design. Or spouting off to the client about what the shit is going to like like while they are half drunk.
We each have our own clientele, more or less, but we each have skills that don't overlap to a large degree, so we rely on each other to provide the stability a firm needs. There's zero ego at the firm, be design. Two of us have taught in universities and are often happiest when we see others succeed. The third partner is an Eastern European immigrant with the humble work ethic to match. I'm on the autism spectrum and don't fully understand what it means to be jealous....
We also have an informal but oft-reinforced philosophy of never saying "I..." unless it's to own up to a mistake. Credit is always "we," period, because that's the truth and it's easy to say.
Man i wish that last bit was more common.
That's how our office is. "We created a solution to a issues I created."
Chad, are you replying to my initial comment? A principal or vp goes out to wine and dine a client and win a job, says some dumb shit, then it becomes your problem to solve the issue they created?
No. I was referring to praise being given to the entire team. It's common to hear something like 'despite my involvement the team did a great project' from management. The funny thing is that everyone else on the team is saying 'dang, without this person we would of been screwed'
Aw nice. That's like the humble opposite.
Although I went on my own, the reason I would chose to not go on my own is if thought design and architecture skill alone would carry me through it. If you think that now and want to go on your own, don't!
Another reason not to go on your own, thinking that your network, connections, colleagues and professional network will carry you through! Network is important yes, but just assume that nobody will care or provide any type of help, leads, or recommendation!
If you are not ok and content with waking up every day, going hunting (meaning being ruthless about making money) and not knowing where your next check is coming from, and all this while supporting a family, then do not go on your own.
Exactly my feelings and great validation for not going out on my own. I can't be ruthless about making money, it just doesn't interest me. I'm like the capybara of the architecture world or something. Like lets just hang out and be friends.
I need to get a van and park it next to yours.
There is the opportunity to find a balance between being the "hunter and the hunted". I don't manage a huge firm so I don't wake up every morning thinking about getting more work and truthfully that is what larger firms need to do. Friends of mine in the business now working in large corporate setting s need to do that every day. On the other end is managing a smallish firm that isn't doing small piddly projects but a mix of scales and clients who provide repeat business with opportunities for decent commissions and the occasional public RFPs and more importantly can say no to projects and clients that don't align with your goals and objectives. It wasn't always that way but it has been curated to achieve that in a very strategic manner.
Whistler this is how we're set up. A good chunk of our business comes from repeat and new clients who come to us (~40%); another ~40% comes from bids for a specific typology/ programme, and the remaining comes from 'fun' stuff we go after to build our portfolio and relationships. Of our three partners, I'm probably chasing work the least but have larger responsibilities in regards to the nuts and bolts of the company - strategic planning, quality control, zoning and building codes, etc. This suits my personality the best and I can still manage to work an occasional afternoon from the pub when I feel like it.
Wow BB - our firms appear to be similar in this aspect.
I've noticed that having a teaching job is a huge first step for some young designers: A regular income, health insurance, access to fabrication resources, and for the less scrupulous - free or heavily subsidized labor in the form of eager students.
Student labor should like that should be illegal and any prof that uses it should be fired and loose their license.
Also - how can you teach something when you've never actually done it?
That's the conundrum of American architectural academia. Best exemplified by the Sci Arc kerfuffle a couple of years back, where a paper architect straight from the '80s and his partner blackmailed students into working for free.
Folks like them take pride in not working at all - to them, they never sold out and are thus brave artists.
I've only had three instructors that weren't architects with at least 20 years experience. Two were great - they specialized in daylighting, passive solar, and emerging tech. Bothe were utilized by famous architects on various actual projects. The other was a worthless theorist.
Haha, at least you have a 2:1 ratio. At a lot of schools now, the ratio is 5:1 in favor of artists. The past few years have seen a new vanguard of theorist-artist with careers built on studying the study of architecture rather than architecture itself - critical theory taken to its max. As you can imagine, the discourse focuses on the discourse and curricula becomes a self-fellating circle.
I honestly have no interest in doing smaller projects such as extensions, toilet refits or even people homes.
Plus I detest all the client interaction I do sometimes that isn’t a blue chip.
So what do you work on then? Please provide some examples.